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Thread: The Closer

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    will the thrill is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Default The Closer




    I hope im wrong and Rondon/whoever in house can fill the role. But looking at what some guys have signed for, especially the guys coming off of injury like Madson (1/3.5) and Soria (2/8) really makes me think DD is missing an opportunity to have a much better backup plan than the whole slide everyone forward a role and go with Benoit. Maybe these guys weren't interested in Detroit, but it seems more than they are the ones not interested, like when it was reported that the Tigers didn't really like Hanharan's stuff. From the looks of the deal the Sox didn't give up much to get a guy with 76 saves and an era under 2.50 the last two seasons.
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    I am not too worried about the closer role. Anything has to be better than what Valverde gave us last year.

    If Rondon can find the plate I don't see why he won't be rather effective throughout the year.

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    Well finding the plate has been his biggest problem before 2012.

    I'm not really worried about it though. Also neither Madson nor Soria are being closers this year.
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    I still say DD is posturing with all the Rondon talk and we end up with Soriano.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    I still say DD is posturing with all the Rondon talk and we end up with Soriano.
    I don't think we've seen a lot of posturing from DD in the past. He's usually pretty quiet and plays his cards close to his vest, and when he says something specific, like Rondon will be given a chance to close, I don't think he intends to use that as a negotiation tactic. Just my opinion. Situations are always fluid.

    But I do hope we sign another RP, and I suspect the hold-up might be us waiting for guys to decrease their contract demands. F-Rod or Lyon for 2-years at middle reliever money would be nice. Something similar to the Dotel contract, but instead of the option year, the second year guaranteed.
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    I don't feel the need for a true closer type, but I wouldn't mind one more arm in the pen, whether Lyon,Howell or whoever else might be out there.

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    With Boston trading for Hanrahan, that makes Bailey the odd man out. I've already read Hanrahan is going to take over the closer role in Beantown.

    Porcello for Bailey?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    I don't think we've seen a lot of posturing from DD in the past. He's usually pretty quiet and plays his cards close to his vest, and when he says something specific, like Rondon will be given a chance to close, I don't think he intends to use that as a negotiation tactic. Just my opinion. Situations are always fluid.

    But I do hope we sign another RP, and I suspect the hold-up might be us waiting for guys to decrease their contract demands. F-Rod or Lyon for 2-years at middle reliever money would be nice. Something similar to the Dotel contract, but instead of the option year, the second year guaranteed.
    The fact that he usually is quiet is what makes me think he's posturing. I'm pretty sure he's done things like this before (saying they won't sign Verlander after the draft, etc.) but I can't remember many specific instances. We'll see.
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    That's not near enough value for Porcello. I'd have given them Peralta for Bailey probably, before the Drew deal. Now I"m not sure we're a match. I think they may just use Bailey to set up.

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    Really don't want to deal porcello for a closer. I'd be far more interested in seeing if they could get a decent MIF prospect than a closer.

    Also I'm not too worried about the closer situation. And I still don't want soriano... Don't think they need him.
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    why not try to see if Porcello can close? [/sarcasmo]
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    Let us turn to Jim Caple:

    From 1991 through 2005, the Atlanta Braves won 14 consecutive division titles (not including the strike year of 1994). They accomplished this despite using 10 different relievers as the team's primary closer, including a 26-year-old rookie who had once been waived (Greg McMichael), another rookie who had been released and played independent ball (Kerry Lightenberg), an 18th-round draft pick (John Rocker) and a broken-down starter (John Smoltz).

    1991: Juan Berenguer (17 saves, 2.24 ERA)
    1992: Alejandro Pena (15 saves, 4.07 ERA)
    1993: Mike Stanton (27 saves, 4.67 ERA) and Greg McMichael (19 saves, 2.06 ERA)
    1994: Greg McMichael (19 saves, 3.84 ERA)
    1995: Mark Wohlers (25 saves, 2.09 ERA
    1996: Mark Wohlers (39 saves, 3.03 ERA)
    1997: Mark Wohlers (33 saves, 3.50 ERA)
    1998: Kerry Lightenberg (30 saves, 2.71 ERA)
    1999: John Rocker (38 saves, 2.49 ERA)
    2000: John Rocker (24 saves, 2.89 ERA)
    2001: John Rocker (19 saves, 3.09 ERA) and John Smoltz (10 saves, 3.36 ERA)
    2002: John Smoltz (55 saves, 3.25 ERA)
    2003: John Smoltz (45 saves, 1.12 ERA)
    2004: John Smoltz (44 saves, 2.76 ERA)
    2005: Chris Reitsma (15 saves, 3.93 ERA) and Kyle Farnsworth (10 saves, 1.98 ERA)

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    Closers are overrated. Getting 3 outs in one inning while pitching to hitters that generally make an out 7 out of ten times isn't that "Herculean". The whole "closer/save thing is drastically blown out of proportion by agents and the media. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by john doe View Post
    Closers are overrated. Getting 3 outs in one inning while pitching to hitters that generally make an out 7 out of ten times isn't that "Herculean". The whole "closer/save thing is drastically blown out of proportion by agents and the media. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
    To an extent, I agree, but there is more pressure in save situations just from the standpoint that there more often than not there are fewer innings to come back from losing a lead. Some guys thrive under that pressure while others don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by holygoat View Post
    To an extent, I agree, but there is more pressure in save situations just from the standpoint that there more often than not there are fewer innings to come back from losing a lead. Some guys thrive under that pressure while others don't.
    This is true, but generally speaking, if you can pitch in front of 40 thousand fans live and millions watching on TV every night chances are you can handle pressure. Also pitching in high leverage situations in the 7th or 8th when you have to come in with guys on base can't be less stressful than coming in in the 9th with nobody on. I think it's been proven time and time again that you don't need a "proven closer" to win, seemingly every year a team advances in the playoffs and even wins the World Series without a guy that was a "proven closer".

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    Yeah the whole pressure thing in the 9th is a huge myth, IMO. 7th and 8th innings can be far worse.
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    Although I hate his personality and don't agree with the whole "proven closer" thing I heard that Brian WIlson has narrowed his teams to 5. Does anybody think the Tigers are or should be in on him? If he can be had for cheap I would be fine with getting him because you can never have enough depth and options in the bullpen because you never know when a guy is going to implode. Wilson,Dotel,Benoit,Coke,AA,Villarreal,Rondon would give us a alot of options in the BP to choose from in terms of closing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyMarsh View Post
    Although I hate his personality and don't agree with the whole "proven closer" thing I heard that Brian WIlson has narrowed his teams to 5. Does anybody think the Tigers are or should be in on him? If he can be had for cheap I would be fine with getting him because you can never have enough depth and options in the bullpen because you never know when a guy is going to implode. Wilson,Dotel,Benoit,Coke,AA,Villarreal,Rondon would give us a alot of options in the BP to choose from in terms of closing.
    I kind of hope not, solely because I hate his antics.

    But I guess I could deal with him.
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    I rarely listen to/watch MLB shows during the offseason but the few times I have so far this year they have left me shaking my head. I'm watching MLB tonight right now and they are talking about Soriano and Mitch Williams is wondering why the Tigers haven't signed him. IDK Mitch, maybe because he will cost them a 1st round pick, a lot of money and it has been proven time and time again that closers are overrated. Here are the closers of the last 10 World Series winners, and tell me how many of those were "proven" or quality closers before the season started.

    12 Romo
    11 Motte
    10 Wilson
    09 Rivera
    08 Lidge
    07 Papelbon
    06 Wainwright
    05 Jenks
    04 Foulke
    03 Looper

    Among those I see Rivera as the only "proven closer", Foulke, Lidge and Wilson were solid in previous years but none were considered plus closers before this championship seasons. Other than that the rest were young guys that came out of nowhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keepleyland2 View Post
    Let us turn to Jim Caple:

    From 1991 through 2005, the Atlanta Braves won 14 consecutive division titles (not including the strike year of 1994). They accomplished this despite using 10 different relievers as the team's primary closer, including a 26-year-old rookie who had once been waived (Greg McMichael), another rookie who had been released and played independent ball (Kerry Lightenberg), an 18th-round draft pick (John Rocker) and a broken-down starter (John Smoltz).
    Caple forgot to mention that they had a future Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon (John Rocker).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    Caple forgot to mention that they had a future Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon (John Rocker).
    He only wore the white hood to help disguise the ball coming out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sports_Freak View Post
    With Boston trading for Hanrahan, that makes Bailey the odd man out. I've already read Hanrahan is going to take over the closer role in Beantown.

    Porcello for Bailey?
    I love this thought.
    When Bailey is healthy, he has GREAT stuff.

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    I thought this thread was about Kyra Sedgewick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Yeah the whole pressure thing in the 9th is a huge myth, IMO. 7th and 8th innings can be far worse.
    This assumes that the closer is only brought in to pitch at the beginning of the 9th inning, which obviously isn't always the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruzer1 View Post
    I thought this thread was about Kyra Sedgewick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruzer1 View Post
    I thought this thread was about Kyra Sedgewick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by john doe View Post
    Closers are overrated. Getting 3 outs in one inning while pitching to hitters that generally make an out 7 out of ten times isn't that "Herculean". The whole "closer/save thing is drastically blown out of proportion by agents and the media. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
    I agree 100%, however we have a manager who has publicly state that having a set closer removes the second guessing and responsibility off of himself and onto the player, so he prefers to have a guy who is "the closer"

    Jim has proven time and time again that he's going to do things his way, so if he's naming a closer, I'd prefer we have one who can get the job done
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    Quote Originally Posted by catswithbats View Post
    I kind of hope not, solely because I hate his antics.

    But I guess I could deal with him.
    Papa Grande came with some antics. We'll see, but I doubt we're involved with Wilson.
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    I would think WIlson would be the most likely candidate if we did sign someone. I wish we had signed Soria though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    I would think WIlson would be the most likely candidate if we did sign someone. I wish we had signed Soria though.
    with so many guys with track records signing for 4 million a season, it makes no sense not to take a shot at one. And I see no way Soriano gets a huge payday after guys like Soria doing 2/8
    Put me on record. Prince Fielder will still OPS 850+ in years 7-8-9 of this contract. (sucks that my signature has to stay this for 7 years now)

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