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  1. #121
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    Not sure why we are in such hurry to ship Porcello off. I mean Smyly looks to be a fine pitcher...but 18 career starts. Total. Dude could wash out the first of June for all we know. Not saying he is likely too, just saying no one would be shocked.

    Porcello is not a huge performer by any stretch, but he is 23, and can still chew up 180 IP and net us 14 wins out the 5 hole (as his career trend would indicate,lol).

    Porcello is a cheap option, under control until 2016...and if he puts together even a mildly decent season (sub 4 ERA/sub 1.3 WHIP) his trade value will be super inflated. If Rick could even shave half a point of his ERA last year down to around 4.00 out of the 5 slot, he could probably win 15-18 games with this lineup if he stayed healthy. Not saying he has long term value to the Tigers, but his potential trade upside value to the Tigers could be huge...a lot more than it is today.

    I vote to have Drew do spot starter duty and pitch out of the bullpen another year. We got 4 aces/near aces, we can afford to take another flyer on Porcello.
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  2. #122
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    I'm going to feel a lot better about this team when we're not talking about paper. Specifically, I want Vmart to have a healthy ST. A couple of basketball players around here have not come back from micro surgery. I recognize basketball is more "knee dependent" than baseball, but it worries me.
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  3. #123
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    5/$80 was pretty much expected. If compared to Greinke and CJ Wilson, I think this is the best of those three contracts. If Sanchez is worse than those two, and I don't think he is, then it isn't by much.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by apabruce View Post
    I'm going to feel a lot better about this team when we're not talking about paper. Specifically, I want Vmart to have a healthy ST. A couple of basketball players around here have not come back from micro surgery. I recognize basketball is more "knee dependent" than baseball, but it worries me.
    I agree about the worries with VMart's knee. Also, his timing may be off the 1st month or so. I'm not going to go all "Inge" on him if he struggles out of the gate. The guy can rake, he's proven that. Just come out of ST healthy and his timing will come back. Hitters hit and Victor hits!
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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statik View Post
    Not sure why we are in such hurry to ship Porcello off. I mean Smyly looks to be a fine pitcher...but 18 career starts. Total. Dude could wash out the first of June for all we know. Not saying he is likely too, just saying no one would be shocked.

    Porcello is not a huge performer by any stretch, but he is 23, and can still chew up 180 IP and net us 14 wins out the 5 hole (as his career trend would indicate,lol).

    Porcello is a cheap option, under control until 2016...and if he puts together even a mildly decent season (sub 4 ERA/sub 1.3 WHIP) his trade value will be super inflated. If Rick could even shave half a point of his ERA last year down to around 4.00 out of the 5 slot, he could probably win 15-18 games with this lineup if he stayed healthy. Not saying he has long term value to the Tigers, but his potential trade upside value to the Tigers could be huge...a lot more than it is today.

    I vote to have Drew do spot starter duty and pitch out of the bullpen another year. We got 4 aces/near aces, we can afford to take another flyer on Porcello.
    Because it's a gamble. If Porcello has a similar (or worse) season next season he then has basically zero trade value. The value placed on Porcello is the potential that you mentioned.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porcelain God View Post
    Because it's a gamble. If Porcello has a similar (or worse) season next season he then has basically zero trade value. The value placed on Porcello is the potential that you mentioned.
    His trade value is fairly low now after last year, I can't imagine it can get a lot worse...but even a mediocre 2013 would net us good value in a trade because Rick would be a 24 year-old starting pitcher with near 1,000 IPs and a lot of perceived upside.

    It is a gamble though, no question...I agree. I just don't think we are gambling a heck of a lot for a much larger potential payoff. Risk vs. reward.
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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porcelain God View Post
    Because it's a gamble. If Porcello has a similar (or worse) season next season he then has basically zero trade value. The value placed on Porcello is the potential that you mentioned.
    Even if this were true, the risk doesn't outweigh the reward. Right now his value isn't that high, I mean it's not like he's going to net us a top flight prospect. So even if he has a bad year next year the worst we would lose out on is a decent prospect. Now the worst case scenario is we trade him for that halfway decent prospect but Porcello ends up fulfilling his potential and turns into a solid number 2 and one or more of our current starters get injured and were left starting Adam Wilk and or scouring the market overpaying for a guy that nobody wants. Just too much could go wrong imo to trade Rick unless we get an unreal offer for him.

  8. #128
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    Porcello is drawing interest from a lot of teams. I'm sure they'll get something good in return.

  9. #129
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    No official confirmation that this deal is done yet.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem View Post
    No official confirmation that this deal is done yet.
    Will be announced Monday
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    Porcello is drawing interest from a lot of teams. I'm sure they'll get something good in return.
    It all comes down to what they can get for him. For those who want to keep him, didn't he give up the most hits in the league last year? His WHIP continues to deteriorate. Not sure how much better he is than a 2011 Brad Penny at this point (a few more K's maybe). Maybe a shift to the BP would help but he's not a guy you want to bring in to put out a fire, I don't think.

    As a side note, based on the strength of our big four starters and their ability to go 200 innings apiece, I think we can get by with an eleven man staff this year from time to time. But not if we keep the rule five LH guy.

    It'll be a fun year.
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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by darko31 View Post
    Who was the LHP who was great when he played but always injured? Justin Thompson I think? Man, that guy was everything you needed to know about the 91-05 Tigers.
    Yup that was him. He was really good one year, and weaver had a good couple of years, but that was about it.
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  13. #133
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    I imagine any deal with Porcello wouldn't be a straight 1 for 1 swap with an opposing player or, if it was, they would already have a contingency plan to acquire additional starting pitching depth. If he's traded, I could envision it as part of a larger deal that also sees Peralta and Boesch and maybe a few minor league prospects traded for a SS, RH 4th OF and starting pitching depth.

    They can't just trade Porcello without getting any starters back given how little depth they have behind Smyly.
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  14. #134
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    Unless they have a contingency plan for a 6th starter type on the market. A Freddy Garcia/Aaron Cook type or whatever.

  15. #135
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    i get a feeling that we should wait till someone gets desparate and give us what we need ie texas has done nothing and lost hamilton so porc for prospar or elvis

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chili Mac Davis View Post
    It all comes down to what they can get for him. For those who want to keep him, didn't he give up the most hits in the league last year? His WHIP continues to deteriorate. Not sure how much better he is than a 2011 Brad Penny at this point (a few more K's maybe). Maybe a shift to the BP would help but he's not a guy you want to bring in to put out a fire, I don't think.

    As a side note, based on the strength of our big four starters and their ability to go 200 innings apiece, I think we can get by with an eleven man staff this year from time to time. But not if we keep the rule five LH guy.

    It'll be a fun year.
    He had very similar (actually better) peripherals to Trevor Cahill, and Cahill fetched quite a bit. Teams are desperate for pitching, especially if it's relatively inexpensive.

  17. #137
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    I hate Rick Porcello and pitchers of his ilk. But I think a lot of that is me being spoiled by getting to watch guys like Verlander and Scherzer on a regular basis. Porcello still has a lot of value as a guy that's going to give you 180 IP of marginally better than crap pitching. And given his age and cost I'm sure we'd have takers on a trade.

    Personally though I think I'm inclined to keep him unless we get a really good offer. As much as I love our rotation we still have Fister who was hurt quite a bit last year, Scherzer who has never pitched 200 innings in a season, and Drew Smyly who is inexperienced and was also hurt last year. Given that we're in total win now mode I think it's very likely that keeping Porcello as a 6th starter may prove more valuable to the 2013 Tigers than whatever we'd get in return for him would.

  18. #138
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    The Tigers are certainly in the catbird seat when it comes to Porcello. It is the equivalent of a 3-0 count on Cabrera: if the pitch isn't perfect, take the walk.
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  19. #139
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    The Tigers should absolutely trade Porcello. Porcello has been a starter for 4 years in this Tigers rotation, he has gotten worse as time has gone on.

    Porcello adds way more value to the tigers in a trade than he does on the roster. There is always someone to fill in if a starter gets injured. Fortunately, the Tigers can afford to be patient here, no need to rush.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    There is always someone to fill in if a starter gets injured.
    For one game maybe, but if a Tigers starter gets injured for a long period, they have no real alternatives after Porcello/Smyly.
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  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    For one game maybe, but if a Tigers starter gets injured for a long period, they have no real alternatives after Porcello/Smyly.
    What does no real alternatives mean? Both AA and AAA will have 5 starters a piece, plus trades or free agents. Rick Porcello is no safety net. I would rather take the unproven then the guy who gives up the most hits in baseball.

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    What does no real alternatives mean? Both AA and AAA will have 5 starters a piece, plus trades or free agents. Rick Porcello is no safety net. I would rather take the unproven then the guy who gives up the most hits in baseball.

    Did he give up the most hits because hes a bad pitcher or because of the horrible defense behind him?
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  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    What does no real alternatives mean? Both AA and AAA will have 5 starters a piece, plus trades or free agents. Rick Porcello is no safety net. I would rather take the unproven then the guy who gives up the most hits in baseball.
    There is a huge difference between the majors and minors. Both AA and AAA each have players at all the other positions too. That doesn't mean they are guys that can start in the majors for an extended period. The vast majority of minor league starting pitchers would be awful (worse than Porcello) if thrown into a regular starting role in the majors. The Tigers don't have pitchers in AA or AAA that really have much potential to help as starters next year. Now, if they can get someone worthwhile for Porcello, they should make a trade but there is no urgency to deal him and they would benefit from having him around.
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  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Porcello adds way more value to the tigers in a trade than he does on the roster.
    Perhaps, but it depends on what the trade offerings are.

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem View Post
    Did he give up the most hits because hes a bad pitcher or because of the horrible defense behind him?
    He is a bad pitcher and his defense his bad.

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    There is a huge difference between the majors and minors. Both AA and AAA each have players at all the other positions too. That doesn't mean they are guys that can start in the majors for an extended period. The vast majority of minor league starting pitchers would be awful (worse than Porcello) if thrown into a regular starting role in the majors. The Tigers don't have pitchers in AA or AAA that really have much potential to help as starters next year. Now, if they can get someone worthwhile for Porcello, they should make a trade but there is no urgency to deal him and they would benefit from having him around.
    And what happens if Porcello becomes disgruntled about not starting?

    The benefit I see in keeping Porcello based on possible injuries in the future is negligible. I agree, there is no urgency to trade him, but if I were GM it would be my top priority to have him dealt prior to spring training.

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Crap, now they have two pitchers who don't know how to win games.
    I think that magically, pitchers learn how to win games when their defense gets better and the offense scores 5 runs a game.

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  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    And what happens if Porcello becomes disgruntled about not starting?

    The benefit I see in keeping Porcello based on possible injuries in the future is negligible. I agree, there is no urgency to trade him, but if I were GM it would be my top priority to have him dealt prior to spring training.
    He'd probably be starting. I don't think the Tigers view Smyly as a sure thing and they shouldn't.
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  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    He'd probably be starting. I don't think the Tigers view Smyly as a sure thing and they shouldn't.
    Smyly is a much better pitcher than Porcello. Porcello doesn't miss bats and it is helpful to have a lefty pitcher in the AL central. Porcello shouldn't be in the rotation.
    Last edited by T&P_Fan; 12-17-2012 at 10:19 AM.

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    I don't think the Tigers view Smyly as a sure thing and they shouldn't.
    I think you're correct here, Lee.

    Drew Smyly has had injury issues repeatedly throughout his career. The Tigers are right to question his ability to handle a full-season workload in a starting rotation. This is the biggest reason I support holding onto both players heading into the season.

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    This isn't a guy a team can count on to log 150-180 innings in 2013 and they would be wise to make sure they at least have a backup plan if they choose to make him the fifth starter. That backup plan does not presently exist in the minor leagues, barring some pretty unexpected leap forward in control and consistency from Casey Crosby.
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  31. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Smyly is a much better pitcher than Porcello. Porcello doesn't miss bats and it is helpful to have a lefty pitcher in the AL central. Porcello shouldn't be in the rotation.
    He was better in April. After that he had a 4.77 ERA (Porcello was 4.32). Smyly has better K and hit rates, Porcello gives up fewer walks, homers. There are things to like about Smyly, but I'm not ready to say he's a good starter over a full season yet. I don't think LH vs RH matters much for starters. Right now, I think they are both decent 5th starter options, but not more than that yet.
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  32. #152
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    Just announced. Have a club option for 2018. Press conference at 3 PM.

    Knobler also says Tigers got a dozen calls about Porcello within 3 hours of Sanchez signing.

  33. #153
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    I wonder how much the option is going to end up being for.
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  34. #154
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    So who gets the boot off the 40-man now that the Sanchez deal is official? Ortega?

  35. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuNk42AE View Post
    I wonder how much the option is going to end up being for.
    If I was a betting man, I would say roughly $0.00.
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  36. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    I don't think LH vs RH matters much for starters.
    Really?

    Porcello in 2012:

    vs RHP: 350 AB, .725 OPS, 4.82 SO/BB

    vs LHP: 378 AB, .883 OPS, 1.64 SO.BB

    Porcello should not be pitching to lefties, he is really bad at it.

  37. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Really?

    Porcello in 2012:

    vs RHP: 350 AB, .725 OPS, 4.82 SO/BB

    vs LHP: 378 AB, .883 OPS, 1.64 SO.BB

    Porcello should not be pitching to lefties, he is really bad at it.
    I know he has trouble versus LH batters. Sanchez has trouble vs RH batters. There might me some team where you'd rather have the LH pitch than the RH, but I don't think you plug someone in as a full-time starter just because he is a LH. Match-ups are more for bullpen management.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Really?

    Porcello in 2012:

    vs RHP: 350 AB, .725 OPS, 4.82 SO/BB

    vs LHP: 378 AB, .883 OPS, 1.64 SO.BB

    Porcello should not be pitching to lefties, he is really bad at it.
    You don't like Porcello. We get it.

  39. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longgone View Post
    You don't like Porcello. We get it.
    Nice way to join the debate. Do you have a point? Should we not debate Porcello?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Nice way to join the debate. Do you have a point? Should we not debate Porcello?
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