Official 2012 Rule 5 draft thread

**tigermojo** · 12-06-2012, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by 4hzglory

I could see this meaning the end of Berry as his pinch running role and maybe backup of spot could be taken. Gives some extra flexibility if they want to get a full-time of and make Dirks the 4th of.

I thought the same thing at first. Bye bye Berry, but now I'm thinking maybe they liked his speed so much they want two fast players on the bench. Considering what we had last season with a bunch of guys who couldn't hit or field on the bench, I'll take a kid with speed who can play 2B and the outfield.

So far we have Holaday, Santiago, Berry and Kobernus on the bench? Did I miss anybody? Plenty of room for improvement, I think this may actually be a downgrade from last season.

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 12-06-2012, 04:29 PM

I would think the only way for Berry and Kobernus to be on the bench at the same time is if Jeff can play ss well enough to be counted on as the back-up short-stop (i.e. He would play 20 - 30 games at short).

I think that because I think the Tigers will have a RH OF to platoon with Dirks and a back-up catcher as two bench players. Presuming Kobernus is the third bench player, either Kobernus has to be the back-up SS (in which case the 4th bench player could be Berry) or the 4th bench player is the back-up ss.

**ROMAD1** · 12-06-2012, 04:41 PM

Don Kelly had some magic moments as a Tiger. Won't lose sight of that in all the numberbation.

**tigermojo** · 12-06-2012, 04:47 PM

Maybe they are thinking Kobernus or Infante could be Dirks' RH platoon partners with one of them playing second and one in left. Infante played just about every position with the Braves in 2010. He's been primarily a second baseman since then though except for 6 games at third for the Tigers last year. Could the Tigers be looking at Infante as a potential super utility guy?

**tiger337** · 12-06-2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

His name sounds Greek...is that a gritty ethnicity? :--)

Greeks tend to be short and stocky and aggressive (just the opposite of me) so it could be a gritty ethnicity. I was thinking more along the lines of crappy hitting second baseman with speed, decent defense and "hard-nosed style of play" (Baseball America).

**redshark63** · 12-06-2012, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by tiger337

Greeks tend to be short and stocky and aggressive (just the opposite of me) so it could be a gritty ethnicity. I was thinking more along the lines of crappy hitting second baseman with speed, decent defense and "hard-nosed style of play" (Baseball America).

and have big awesome weddings! (so the movies tell me)

**Charles Liston** · 12-06-2012, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by tiger337

Greeks tend to be short and stocky and aggressive (just the opposite of me) so it could be a gritty ethnicity. I was thinking more along the lines of crappy hitting second baseman with speed, decent defense and "hard-nosed style of play" (Baseball America).

I liked reading that he's "heady" too, which he'd have to be of course. Being a white guy, he wouldn't be able to rely just on natural athletic ability. He's going to get his uniform dirty. You have to watch this guy play to appreciate him, the numbers don't tell the whole story.

**Sports_Freak** · 12-07-2012, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by Microline133

I would argue these are both low risk, low reward moves. At best you get a swingman or situational lefty out of Lobstein and a speedy utility player out of Kobernus. That's a low reward for me. It's not as though of these guys has the potential to become a regular contributor.

Yes, I have to say you're right. Berry, Santiago and Worth have already performed at the ML level, with some success. There's no way some AA or AAA player is going to come here and earn a spot on a World Championship contending team. Maybe on a rebuilding team......

But, if the Tigers see a need for these guys down in the minors, I could see them working out a deal to keep them in the organization.

And you never know, sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle.

**Yoda** · 12-07-2012, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Sports_Freak

Yes, I have to say you're right. Berry, Santiago and Worth have already performed at the ML level, with some success. There's no way some AA or AAA player is going to come here and earn a spot on a World Championship contending team. Maybe on a rebuilding team......

But, if the Tigers see a need for these guys down in the minors, I could see them working out a deal to keep them in the organization.

And you never know, sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle.

This sort of thing does happen all the time, and will probably happen again this year at some point.

**Microline133** · 12-07-2012, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth

Mark - could Kobernus conceivably play 20 games at shortstop in MLB this year?

I've actually seen Kobernus at short, catching one of his handful of career games at the position. It wasn't pretty. He has the range for the position, but I don't like his footwork, hands or instincts on that side of the diamond.

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 12-07-2012, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Microline133

I've actually seen Kobernus at short, catching one of his handful of career games at the position. It wasn't pretty. He has the range for the position, but I don't like his footwork, hands or instincts on that side of the diamond.

Thanks!

**TigersSlappy** · 12-07-2012, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Microline133

I've actually seen Kobernus at short, catching one of his handful of career games at the position. It wasn't pretty. He has the range for the position, but I don't like his footwork, hands or instincts on that side of the diamond.

Since it's not included in his negatives I take it you did like his grittiness over there?

**ballmich** · 12-07-2012, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth

I'm presuming Peralta would play 3rd.

If Kobernus can play short reasonably well, I think the Tigers are adequately covered at all positions (I assume VMart could play 1B if necessary) with a 4th OF and back-up catcher.

Peralta played zero games at 3B in 2012. He played zero games for us at 3B in 2011. Leyland is not going to shift his starting SS to 3B on days that he puts Cabrera at DH or has a day off. He will leave Peralta at SS, and use a reserve player at 3B, almost guaranteed.

**ballmich** · 12-07-2012, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by irvink

Good call.

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler
Tigers excited by both guys they got in Rule 5, but especially Kobernus. "He's the new Don Kelly," one Tigers person said.

I'd actually prefer Don Kelly, because I know he is a good defender at 3B and can play a corner OF position adequately. And I prefer the LHB, which isn't that important considering neither Kelly or Kobernus will hit, but still. 3B and a 5th OF will be more of a need with the last roster spot than another 2B or middle infielder, when you already have Peralta, Infante and Santiago (or Worth) on the roster. There's not enough PA's to go around with another middle infielder.

**4hzglory** · 12-07-2012, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by ballmich

I'd actually prefer Don Kelly, because I know he is a good defender at 3B and can play a corner OF position adequately. And I prefer the LHB, which isn't that important considering neither Kelly or Kobernus will hit, but still. 3B and a 5th OF will be more of a need with the last roster spot than another 2B or middle infielder, when you already have Peralta, Infante and Santiago (or Worth) on the roster. There's not enough PA's to go around with another middle infielder.

I think there is a decent chance Santiago gets moved. Then you have Worth to backup SS/3b (as well as 2b) and Kobernus at 2b/OF/maybe SS/maybe 3b. Covers the IF and 5th OF position (especially since Infante can play OF in a pinch).

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 12-07-2012, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by 4hzglory

I think there is a decent chance Santiago gets moved. Then you have Worth to backup SS/3b (as well as 2b) and Kobernus at 2b/OF/maybe SS/maybe 3b. Covers the IF and 5th OF position (especially since Infante can play OF in a pinch).

Yeah - for me the Kubernus acquisition suggests they are looking to move Santiago.

**ballmich** · 12-07-2012, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by 4hzglory

I think there is a decent chance Santiago gets moved. Then you have Worth to backup SS/3b (as well as 2b) and Kobernus at 2b/OF/maybe SS/maybe 3b. Covers the IF and 5th OF position (especially since Infante can play OF in a pinch).

There is a lot of assumptions built into this.

1. Santiago is traded (or I guess released which has the same effect).
2. Kobernus can play OF, maybe SS, maybe 3B --- all adequately. He's really only played 2B in the minors, and based upon Micro's comments, it seems like we can probably rule out SS.
3. Infante can play OF in a pinch -- even though he hasn't played it since 2010 and Leyland typically doesn't shift around his starting players.

I don't like relying on that many unknowns.

I just don't like the Kobernus pick because what would be nice in this roster spot is a big bat, or a utility player who is a plus defender. Frankly, I'd probably prefer Chone Figgins at the league minimum over Kobernus. If we want someone who can play 3B, a corner OF spot, and 2B, with above average defense and good speed... that is Figgins.

**cruzer1** · 12-07-2012, 03:35 PM

As far as rule 5's go, its usually low risk low reward, so if the Tigers get anything useful out of this, I'm all for it.

**alwaysthrowheat** · 12-07-2012, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by ballmich

I'd actually prefer Don Kelly, because I know he is a good defender at 3B and can play a corner OF position adequately. And I prefer the LHB, which isn't that important considering neither Kelly or Kobernus will hit, but still. 3B and a 5th OF will be more of a need with the last roster spot than another 2B or middle infielder, when you already have Peralta, Infante and Santiago (or Worth) on the roster. There's not enough PA's to go around with another middle infielder.

One of the 2 MIF (Worth or Santiago, more likely Santiago) will be gone. Kobernus can play the OF.

**Gehringer_2** · 12-07-2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by ballmich

I'd actually prefer Don Kelly, because I know he is a good defender at 3B and can play a corner OF position adequately. And I prefer the LHB, which isn't that important considering neither Kelly or Kobernus will hit, but still. 3B and a 5th OF will be more of a need with the last roster spot than another 2B or middle infielder, when you already have Peralta, Infante and Santiago (or Worth) on the roster. There's not enough PA's to go around with another middle infielder.

If we could have the 28 yr old Don Kelly I'd agree - but that player doesn't exist anymore.

**Nastradamus** · 12-07-2012, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by ballmich

There is a lot of assumptions built into this.

1. Santiago is traded (or I guess released which has the same effect).
2. Kobernus can play OF, maybe SS, maybe 3B --- all adequately. He's really only played 2B in the minors, and based upon Micro's comments, it seems like we can probably rule out SS.
3. Infante can play OF in a pinch -- even though he hasn't played it since 2010 and Leyland typically doesn't shift around his starting players.

I don't like relying on that many unknowns.

I just don't like the Kobernus pick because what would be nice in this roster spot is a big bat, or a utility player who is a plus defender. Frankly, I'd probably prefer Chone Figgins at the league minimum over Kobernus. If we want someone who can play 3B, a corner OF spot, and 2B, with above average defense and good speed... that is Figgins.

Its almost impossible for him to be as bad as Figgins.