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  1. #41
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    Lynn G. Henning ‏@Lynn_Henning
    Tigers view Kobernus as speedy utility guy -- 2B and OF. SS, they say, would be "icing on the cake." Lobstein: 2nd lefty -- can also start.
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  2. #42
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    Baseball America ‏@BaseballAmerica 8. #Mets: Kyle Lobstein, lhp. Never added velo after signing for $1.5M. Works in high 80s but has sharp curve & solid changeup. #Rule5 (JC)
    2014 AAT: Drew VerHagen

  3. #43
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    Baseball America ‏@BaseballAmerica 7. #Tigers (via #Red Sox): Jeff Kobernus, 2b. Plus-plus runner has chance to be average hitter & defender, but little pop. #Rule5 (JC)
    2014 AAT: Drew VerHagen

  4. #44
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    I'm not a big fan of trading for Rule 5 guys, when the odds are awfully small that they make the team, smaller still that they stick all year, and extremely small that they actually provide value for the roster spot taken. It's one thing to make the pick ourselves, which I'm really not a huge fan of either. But to trade for guys seems like just wasteful spending of resources.

    Not that I am upset with losing Henry or anything. I just don't see the benefit of this. I hope I'm wrong.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight; my goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. -- Psalm 144:1-2

  5. #45
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    Lynn G. Henning ‏@Lynn_Henning
    Tigers also paid $12,000 for the privilege of drafting speedy outfielder Eliezer Mesa from the A's in the Rule 5 Triple A phase. Depth move.
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    I like that they're trying to add some speed to potentially be part of the bench. Solid depth moves between the rule 5 draft and the Oliver trade yesterday. Nothing too impactful, but I like it.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by redshark63 View Post
    Baseball America ‏@BaseballAmerica 7. #Tigers (via #Red Sox): Jeff Kobernus, 2b. Plus-plus runner has chance to be average hitter & defender, but little pop. #Rule5 (JC)
    Is Infante's broken arm expected to be fully healed by opening day?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by redshark63 View Post
    Baseball America ‏@BaseballAmerica 7. #Tigers (via #Red Sox): Jeff Kobernus, 2b. Plus-plus runner has chance to be average hitter & defender, but little pop. #Rule5 (JC)
    Can he also play SS? Or 3B? Because with a 4-man bench, it's tough to carry a guy who only plays 2B.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight; my goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. -- Psalm 144:1-2

  9. #49
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    But since Infante can play OF, a spare good glove 2b allows them to move him to the OF when they want to PH for an OF, say for Dirks against a LH reliever late in a game. So even if he can't play OF, he gains you some additional OF flexibility.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    A spare good glove 2b allows them to move Infante to the OF when they want to PH for an OF, say for Dirks against a LH reliever late in a game. So even if he can't play OF, he gains you some additional OF flexibility.
    Unlikely. Leyland isn't the type of manager to move his starter at 2B to the OF during a game. I'd be very surprised if we saw that at all, let alone with any regularity.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight; my goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. -- Psalm 144:1-2

  11. #51
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    Kobernus is basically a right handed Don Kelly with speed and an ability to play second. Basically, he could have a chance to stick as a 25th man because seriously don Kelly had no business being on a major league team either.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    I'm not a big fan of trading for Rule 5 guys, when the odds are awfully small that they make the team, smaller still that they stick all year, and extremely small that they actually provide value for the roster spot taken. It's one thing to make the pick ourselves, which I'm really not a huge fan of either. But to trade for guys seems like just wasteful spending of resources.

    Not that I am upset with losing Henry or anything. I just don't see the benefit of this. I hope I'm wrong.
    You're right, there's a small chance that the player stays all year. However, most of the time, the guy picked up in rule 5 doesn't go back to their original team. Instead, they work out compensation, especially if they like what they see out of the acquired player in ST. If either of these guys show anything, they'll probably be traded for a combined 50-75K.

    I also wouldn't define Justin Henry as a "resource".

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Can he also play SS? Or 3B? Because with a 4-man bench, it's tough to carry a guy who only plays 2B.
    He played a little bit of SS but I have no idea if he's able to play it with regularity.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Unlikely. Leyland isn't the type of manager to move his starter at 2B to the OF during a game. I'd be very surprised if we saw that at all, let alone with any regularity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    I'm not a big fan of trading for Rule 5 guys, when the odds are awfully small that they make the team, smaller still that they stick all year, and extremely small that they actually provide value for the roster spot taken. It's one thing to make the pick ourselves, which I'm really not a huge fan of either. But to trade for guys seems like just wasteful spending of resources.

    Not that I am upset with losing Henry or anything. I just don't see the benefit of this. I hope I'm wrong.
    Meh...we have an aging set of "prospects" who aren't really panning out, so if we can get anything of value from them, especially a younger player that could develop, I'm all for it. Getting potentially useful players out of Oliver and Henry while they each still had a shred of value left is a good move, if you ask me. Especially in a system that lacks depth beyond its top three prospects.
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  16. #56
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    BTW:

    Jason Beck ‏@beckjason Yes. Same rules. RT @DetTigerTalk: @beckjason stupid question, but if rule 5 picks are traded do they still have to stick on MLB roster?
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    Ryan Raburn. How soon forgotten.
    Different scenario, as he wasn't really our regular 2B. And really wasn't a 2B at atll.
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  18. #58
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    I could see this meaning the end of Berry as his pinch running role and maybe backup of spot could be taken. Gives some extra flexibility if they want to get a full-time of and make Dirks the 4th of.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    Meh...we have an aging set of "prospects" who aren't really panning out, so if we can get anything of value from them, especially a younger player that could develop, I'm all for it. Getting potentially useful players out of Oliver and Henry while they each still had a shred of value left is a good move, if you ask me. Especially in a system that lacks depth beyond its top three prospects.
    Acquiring non-prospects who have to stick on the roster all season, or whom you have to work out further compensation to acquire their rights, generally isn't a good move. The fact that our system lacks depth, consistantly, is another issue. And it can't be fixed through the Rule 5 draft.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight; my goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. -- Psalm 144:1-2

  20. #60
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    So, Kobernus has Quintin Berry's speed but with a decent glove and the ability to play 2b?
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  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Can he also play SS? Or 3B? Because with a 4-man bench, it's tough to carry a guy who only plays 2B.
    The Tigers do not need a bench guy who plays 3rd because Miguel Cabrera will play every inning at 3B unless he or Prince are injured, in which case they would trade for a guy to fill in at 3rd.

    Ideally Kobernus *could* play ss, but given how little he has in the minors, I tend to doubt he could field the position well enough to play 20 MLB games there or something. I'd be curious on Mark's take.

    I don't think Justin Henry for him is too much, and am not worried about the $$$ spent on the other rule V guys.

  22. #62
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    Jeff Kobernus sounds like he's gritty. I bet he does things that don't show up in the box score.
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Jeff Kobernus sounds like he's gritty. I bet he does things that don't show up in the box score.
    Does he wear his socks high?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    The Tigers do not need a bench guy who plays 3rd because Miguel Cabrera will play every inning at 3B unless he or Prince are injured, in which case they would trade for a guy to fill in at 3rd.

    Ideally Kobernus *could* play ss, but given how little he has in the minors, I tend to doubt he could field the position well enough to play 20 MLB games there or something. I'd be curious on Mark's take.

    I don't think Justin Henry for him is too much, and am not worried about the $$$ spent on the other rule V guys.
    It's true that Cabrera isn't pulled for a defensive replacement, but there is the matter of the 8-10 games per year that he will DH, just like in 2012. And I wouldn't be surprised to see that continue and maybe grow in 2013. Particularly if VMart needs more rest than what is currently being assumed by most people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Acquiring non-prospects who have to stick on the roster all season, or whom you have to work out further compensation to acquire their rights, generally isn't a good move. The fact that our system lacks depth, consistantly, is another issue. And it can't be fixed through the Rule 5 draft.
    They either stick on the roster or we lost Justin Henry for no reason. Worth the gamble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    Does he wear his socks high?
    It sounds more like he is sockless.
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  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    Does he wear his socks high?
    I've been looking at photos and he does not wear his socks high, which is disappointing. He does have a scruffy beard and mustache in some photos though, so there is some potential there.
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    It's true that Cabrera isn't pulled for a defensive replacement, but there is the matter of the 8-10 games per year that he will DH, just like in 2012.
    Simple, we move our 1B over to 3B. Worked last year.
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  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    It's true that Cabrera isn't pulled for a defensive replacement, but there is the matter of the 8-10 games per year that he will DH, just like in 2012. And I wouldn't be surprised to see that continue and maybe grow in 2013. Particularly if VMart needs more rest than what is currently being assumed by most people.
    I'm presuming Peralta would play 3rd.

    If Kobernus can play short reasonably well, I think the Tigers are adequately covered at all positions (I assume VMart could play 1B if necessary) with a 4th OF and back-up catcher.

  30. #70
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    I liked Justin Henry and from past comments Leyland did too, but I think that the upside for Kobernus is so much greater then with Henry. However, you already had control of Henry. He was not on the 40 man roster so there was no strings attached to sending him down if need be as there will be with Kobernus, who likely can replace Berry and likely means Worth is in Toledo or Santiago is moved.

    Lobstein is interesting to me because it is so much easier to carry a pitcher as rule five guy but it doesnt sound as if Lobstein has what D.D usually looks for: velocity. Could he be a potential loogy type guy? But explain to me, why we get a lefty without much velocity and questionable control after trading a lefty with just as questionable control but much better pure stuff in Oliver yesterday?

    Bottom line for me is that if Dombrowski targeted these guys enough to workout trades for them then I trust that there is something that makes this a worthwhile day. However, I would be shocked if one or both makes the team and plays any kind of role.
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  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by vannzee View Post
    I liked Justin Henry and from past comments Leyland did too, but I think that the upside for Kobernus is so much greater then with Henry. However, you already had control of Henry. He was not on the 40 man roster so there was no strings attached to sending him down if need be as there will be with Kobernus, who likely can replace Berry and likely means Worth is in Toledo or Santiago is moved.

    Lobstein is interesting to me because it is so much easier to carry a pitcher as rule five guy but it doesnt sound as if Lobstein has what D.D usually looks for: velocity. Could he be a potential loogy type guy? But explain to me, why we get a lefty without much velocity and questionable control after trading a lefty with just as questionable control but much better pure stuff in Oliver yesterday?

    Bottom line for me is that if Dombrowski targeted these guys enough to workout trades for them then I trust that there is something that makes this a worthwhile day. However, I would be shocked if one or both makes the team and plays any kind of role.
    Runs against the probabilities that Lobstein hasn't been a candidate for TJ somewhere along the line. Seems to be the most common reason a pitcher starts to lose his velocity even if there is not a lot of pain.
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  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by redshark63 View Post
    BTW:

    Jason Beck ‏@beckjason Yes. Same rules. RT @DetTigerTalk: @beckjason stupid question, but if rule 5 picks are traded do they still have to stick on MLB roster?
    Thanks. I was going to ask this exact question.

    Low risk, high reward type of moves. If one of these guys looks good in ST, he may make the trip north. But nobody should be trading Santiago just yet. Or even sending Worth to Toledo.
    We'll see in a few months. And if the Tigers brass likes what they see out of either player, we can always work out a trade to keep them, right? Berry is still safe (for now). It seems like Boesch may be moved. Wherever he ends up, I wish him well. I just hope we don't end up giving him away, something useful in return would be nice. We really need a power RH bat for the bench.
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    According to Baseball America, Lobstein lost his velocity in HS before he was drafted. I haven't read anything about his ever recovering it as a pro.
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  34. #74
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    Lobstein reportedly used to have velocity, so maybe they think they can bring that back somehow. I don't know much about the details, though. Isn't Jeff Jones known for maximizing pitchers' velocity?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sports_Freak View Post
    Low risk, high reward type of moves.
    I would argue these are both low risk, low reward moves. At best you get a swingman or situational lefty out of Lobstein and a speedy utility player out of Kobernus. That's a low reward for me. It's not as though of these guys has the potential to become a regular contributor.
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  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Microline133 View Post
    I would argue these are both low risk, low reward moves. At best you get a swingman or situational lefty out of Lobstein and a speedy utility player out of Kobernus. That's a low reward for me. It's not as though of these guys has the potential to become a regular contributor.
    Mark - could Kobernus conceivably play 20 games at shortstop in MLB this year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Jeff Kobernus sounds like he's gritty. I bet he does things that don't show up in the box score.
    His name sounds Greek...is that a gritty ethnicity? :--)
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  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelton View Post
    Kobernus is basically a right handed Don Kelly with speed and an ability to play second. Basically, he could have a chance to stick as a 25th man because seriously don Kelly had no business being on a major league team either.
    Good call.

    DKnobler ‏@DKnobler
    Tigers excited by both guys they got in Rule 5, but especially Kobernus. "He's the new Don Kelly," one Tigers person said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelton View Post
    Kobernus is basically a right handed Don Kelly with speed and an ability to play second. Basically, he could have a chance to stick as a 25th man because seriously don Kelly had no business being on a major league team either.
    Shelton, were you the person they quoted? Twitter / DKnobler: Tigers excited by both guys ...
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    Good to see the Tigers finally valueing speed and defense. Victor Martienez is so bloddy slow that they need bench guys to pich run for him in close late game situations.
    Its strange they cut Schrleth for this guy. Are they mad at Schrelth for not having surgery and figure he will break down?

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