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  1. #1
    eastside billee's Avatar
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    Default Oliver traded for Cabrera




    The Pirates acquired lefty Andrew Oliver from the Tigers for catcher Ramon Cabrera, tweets Rob Biertempfel of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

    Oliver, 25, was drafted by the Tigers in the second round in 2009. He was once pretty highly-regarded and had a taste of the Majors, but in 2012 his Triple-A walk rate soared to 6.7 per nine innings. Baseball America has described him as "a power lefty who needs to throw more strikes." Oliver had a dust-up with the NCAA in '08, winning a lawsuit against them after he was suspended for having an adviser in talks with the Twins.

    Cabrera, 23, spent most of 2012 in Double-A, hitting .276/.342/.367 in 428 plate appearances. He's a high-contact switch-hitter with a questionable arm, wrote BA.
    - - -

    I think the Tigers just like the name Cabrera.

    Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
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    Thanks for this, billee. I appreciate having separate threads for actual moves by the Tigers.
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    Holiday and Cabrera fighting it out for the backup in ST?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuNk42AE View Post
    Holiday and Cabrera fighting it out for the backup in ST?
    Mark Anderson ‏@TigsTownMark

    Ramon Cabrera provides competition for Bryan Holaday in 2013...Cabrera is average glove overall, some modest hitting ability. #Tigers
    Sounds like it
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuNk42AE View Post
    Holiday and Cabrera fighting it out for the backup in ST?
    Cabrera's not a stiff like Holoday with the bat, but he's still a light hitter; as a switch-hitter so far he has shown no clear split advantage versus LHP either.

    Leaving the backup position up to these two would be a huge mistake for a team that is positioning itself for a championship run. There are good veterans out there like Shoppach with a proven track record of hitting LHP. They have no reason to let this become amatuer night, especially with a catcher with proven difficulties with health and hitting LHP. Avila's hitting killed us in the 2011 postseason and hurt us in the 2012 postseason against LHP. Due to the risk factors with Avila, there's no damn reason to pinch pennies on the backup catcher position and leave it to the light-hitting AA kiddies.
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  6. #6
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    Lynn G. Henning ‏@Lynn_Henning
    Tigers still interested in a big-league catcher, should Bryan Holaday not cut it as Avila's back-up. Ramon Cabrera is Triple A strength.

    Jason Beck ‏@beckjason
    Ramon Cabrera is not a candidate for #Tigers backup catcher. He'll start out at Toledo or Erie, depending on whether Holaday makes team.

  7. #7
    sabretooth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irvink View Post
    Lynn G. Henning ‏@Lynn_Henning
    Tigers still interested in a big-league catcher, should Bryan Holaday not cut it as Avila's back-up. Ramon Cabrera is Triple A strength.

    Jason Beck ‏@beckjason
    Ramon Cabrera is not a candidate for #Tigers backup catcher. He'll start out at Toledo or Erie, depending on whether Holaday makes team.
    Taken at face value, this would indicate that Holaday is in the mix for backup C with Cabrera behind him. I hope that the Tigers get somebody soon that keeps Holaday and Cabrera firmly in the minors where they belong.
    Last edited by sabretooth; 12-05-2012 at 07:08 PM.
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  8. #8
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    I love switch hitting catchers and this guy looks like a pretty good hitter. No HR power but singles and doubles with a good OBP is better than nothing offensively. It's nice to have some solid young catching options but I don't think Cabrera or Holaday are the answer the Tigers are looking for. It might be the only ones they have come ST. I'm still hoping they get someone with MLB exp and good defense and a decent stick against lefties.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastside billee View Post
    The Pirates acquired lefty Andrew Oliver from the Tigers for catcher Ramon Cabrera, tweets Rob Biertempfel of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

    Oliver, 25, was drafted by the Tigers in the second round in 2009. He was once pretty highly-regarded and had a taste of the Majors, but in 2012 his Triple-A walk rate soared to 6.7 per nine innings. Baseball America has described him as "a power lefty who needs to throw more strikes." Oliver had a dust-up with the NCAA in '08, winning a lawsuit against them after he was suspended for having an adviser in talks with the Twins.

    Cabrera, 23, spent most of 2012 in Double-A, hitting .276/.342/.367 in 428 plate appearances. He's a high-contact switch-hitter with a questionable arm, wrote BA.
    - - -

    I think the Tigers just like the name Cabrera.

    Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
    Well they have Basilio Cabrera Basilio Cabrera Minor League Statistics & History - Baseball-Reference.com managing their Gulf Coast Tgers and he has a young son Yordy Cabrera Yordy Cabrera Minor League Statistics & History - Baseball-Reference.com who spent last season with A+ Oakland and sure he will always be within the Tigers vision.
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  10. #10
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    The last Cabrera they picked up in Nashville worked out ok.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigersSlappy View Post
    The last Cabrera they picked up in Nashville worked out ok.
    Five years ago TODAY!

  12. #12
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    As little as John Buck gets on base, he probably wouldn't be hard to get from the Blue Jays. They will probably trade JPA before hand though.
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    What would be the point of getting John Buck?
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  14. #14
    PuNk42AE's Avatar
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    A Veteran C to backup
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    Nothing major, but I think its pretty good value for Oliver, who is basically a throw away at this point.

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    Charles Liston is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabretooth View Post
    What would be the point of getting John Buck?
    According to Dirk Hayhurst, pitchers love throwing to John Buck...for whatever that's worth.

  17. #17
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    Default

    With the departure of Oliver that's now 3 open slots on the 40-man roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzbach View Post
    With the departure of Oliver that's now 3 open slots on the 40-man roster.
    Cabrera is sure to be added to the 40 man, as he was recently added to Pittsburgh's as he was rule V eligible.
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    Two Cabrera's down,

    And all we still need to do is aquire Astrubal Cabrera (ss) Alex Cabrera (1B) Jolbert Cabrera (LF) and teams are going to have a hell of a time pitching around Cabrera....period....
    ďDiplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.Ē -Will Rogers

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuNk42AE View Post
    A Veteran C to backup
    John Buck in the last 4 seasons (with the exception of 90 good at-bats in 2010) has been horrible against LHP. Shoppach, over the same period, has had two excellent splits against LHP (near 850 and over 1.000) one decent one (about 765) and one below average (717).

    A long time ago John Buck used to be so-so against LHP with a career OPS of 740 vs. LHP, whereas Shoppach has been excellent over his career vs. LHP (career OPS of 867).

    (FWIW, all of the options are pretty bad against RHP, including these two)

    Either comparison yields a likely advantage of 8 - 10 Runs Created for Buck over 150 - 200 PAs against LHP.

    I have not seen any evidence that the defensive value of the backup catcher would create anything like the likely difference in hitting value between these two against LHP.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimm View Post
    Cabrera is sure to be added to the 40 man, as he was recently added to Pittsburgh's as he was rule V eligible.
    Oops! I didn't realize he was already on Pittsburgh's 40-man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PuNk42AE View Post
    As little as John Buck gets on base, he probably wouldn't be hard to get from the Blue Jays. They will probably trade JPA before hand though.
    I don't know about that. The Jays have been hoarding catchers for some reason. Based upon the 40-man posted to their website, they have five catchers on the roster right now. That includes Whiteside, which was a recent claim, and seemed to be out of spite for the Yankees.
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  23. #23
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
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    I understand that Oliver's value is down substantially, but this trade was a complete waste. If Oliver has an option remaining, and I think he does, then we'd have been better off just keeping him. At least with Oliver he had a chance to make something click and develop.

    This just creates a logjam of fodder at the catcher position, continues to use up a valuable 40-man spot, and provides no clear direction or long term plan to develop a major league catcher to back up Avila. If that plan is McCann (yuck) then this just is unnecessary to clog up AAA/AA. We can do that without using up a roster spot, or trading a potential power lefty for the bullpen.

    Does anyone know if Cabrera was playing winter ball, and if so, how he was doing? This seems like one of those situations where the Tigers have found someone doing well in winterball and decided to go out and get him.
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    For what it is worth, I'd rather have Oliver with his option, than Lobstein who we'd have to keep on the roster all year long.
    The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves. - George Washington August 26, 1776.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    I don't know about that. The Jays have been hoarding catchers for some reason. Based upon the 40-man posted to their website, they have five catchers on the roster right now. That includes Whiteside, which was a recent claim, and seemed to be out of spite for the Yankees.
    They actually only had Buck, D'A and JPA for a bit, which was why they hadn't traded JPA or Buck yet, but then they picked up Whiteside which started the rumors up again. As long as D'A is recovered to start the season he should be the starter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gzbach View Post
    Oops! I didn't realize he was already on Pittsburgh's 40-man.
    I do not think he has to go on the 40 man just because he was in PIT. Now the Rule 5 is over, he should be fine not to be on the 40 man just in case DD has something else in mind.

  27. #27
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    He was added to the 40 man roster by Pitt, meaning he'd have to be passed through waivers by the Tigs if he wasn't put on their 40 man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidsb View Post
    I do not think he has to go on the 40 man just because he was in PIT. Now the Rule 5 is over, he should be fine not to be on the 40 man just in case DD has something else in mind.
    He's have to pass waivers to be taken off the 40-man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuNk42AE View Post
    He was added to the 40 man roster by Pitt, meaning he'd have to be passed through waivers by the Tigs if he wasn't put on their 40 man.
    Aaaaaaah Bach!

    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    He's have to pass waivers to be taken off the 40-man.
    Aaaaaaah Bach!!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Two Cabrera's down,

    And all we still need to do is aquire Astrubal Cabrera (ss) Alex Cabrera (1B) Jolbert Cabrera (LF) and teams are going to have a hell of a time pitching around Cabrera....period....
    Get Melky for RF, and Everth has played at least a little 2B for the Padres...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidsb View Post
    Aaaaaaah Bach!



    Aaaaaaah Bach!!
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    Thanks for the memory.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    For what it is worth, I'd rather have Oliver with his option, than Lobstein who we'd have to keep on the roster all year long.
    It's likely that the Tigers will be able to keep Lobstein for cash or a non prospect if he doesn't stick on the roster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    It's likely that the Tigers will be able to keep Lobstein for cash or a non prospect if he doesn't stick on the roster.
    Looks like a trip to Party City will be in order then, since I'm short on streamers and confetti.
    The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves. - George Washington August 26, 1776.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Looks like a trip to Party City will be in order then, since I'm short on streamers and confetti.
    I just had an irrational hate for Oliver, so I really don't care who replaces him.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    I just had an irrational hate for Oliver, so I really don't care who replaces him.
    Fine, I don't particularly like wild relievers myself. But I liken him to JP Howell who had a lot of the same issues seemingly, and couldn't get over the hump until after multiple chances. And that didn't happen until the same age at which Oliver will be in 2013.

    I'm not saying Oliver is the next Howell, but I am saying that we don't know if he is or not. Dumping him for catching fodder, or for a soft tossing lefty taken via Rule 5, no matter how you are looking at it, doesn't look to be a good trade to me. Acknowledging that Oliver is a longshot to develop, he is still the best bet of those three players.
    The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves. - George Washington August 26, 1776.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Fine, I don't particularly like wild relievers myself. But I liken him to JP Howell who had a lot of the same issues seemingly, and couldn't get over the hump until after multiple chances. And that didn't happen until the same age at which Oliver will be in 2013.

    I'm not saying Oliver is the next Howell, but I am saying that we don't know if he is or not. Dumping him for catching fodder, or for a soft tossing lefty taken via Rule 5, no matter how you are looking at it, doesn't look to be a good trade to me. Acknowledging that Oliver is a longshot to develop, he is still the best bet of those three players.
    I can agree with you there. He has is the best bet of the three. Can't really agree with you on the Howell comp, considering he throws literally 10 MPH harder.

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    I would have stuck with Oliver plus his option over Cabrera and his three options. Cabrera's ceiling is that of a light hitting, poor throw AAA shuttle guy, wheras Olivers is that of an impact reliever or mid-rotation lefty starter if he finds his control. Yes that is a big if but the Tigers still had a year to decide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redshark63 View Post
    A great Radar moment!

    Thanks for the memory.
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  39. #39
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    Good trade. Oliver will never amount to anything and Cabrera could become a decent option for a backup catcher.

    Speaking of which, there is no reason that this team should not be trying to sign Kelly Shoppach. He is perfect for what they need.

    I wonder if Shoppach just doesn't want to come here? Always a possiblity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    Good trade. Oliver will never amount to anything and Cabrera could become a decent option for a backup catcher.

    Speaking of which, there is no reason that this team should not be trying to sign Kelly Shoppach. He is perfect for what they need.

    I wonder if Shoppach just doesn't want to come here? Always a possiblity.
    The reverse is also possible. They may not want him. He didn't exactly cover himself in glory in Boston.

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