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    Default Not trying to be grim here.......but what if.......




    What if Mr. Illitch became too frail or passed away. I am not saying I want this to happen because I don't. You can find fault with any famous figure, but that man's loyalty to the city of Detroit has been unshakable. But what do you think would happen?


    Would his family keep the Tigers? Would they drastically cut payroll in the near future? If they sold the team who would you want to own it?

    I think these things do need to be thought about a little bit. The man is 83 and he is frail and I think the reason the payroll is so high is that he wants to win the World Series so much.
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    I don't think we're talking a Davidson type cliff but I could see the Tiger's payroll come down a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics View Post
    What if Mr. Illitch became too frail or passed away. I am not saying I want this to happen because I don't. You can find fault with any famous figure, but that man's loyalty to the city of Detroit has been unshakable. But what do you think would happen?


    Would his family keep the Tigers? Would they drastically cut payroll in the near future? If they sold the team who would you want to own it?

    I think these things do need to be thought about a little bit. The man is 83 and he is frail and I think the reason the payroll is so high is that he wants to win the World Series so much.
    I'm sure that the Ilitch empire will be well taken care of. When your worth about $1.7BILLION dollars, you have people who specialize in estate planning and trust creation. The passing of Mike Ilitch will not start a mad search under a matress to see if he did a will or a huge family fist fight over who gets what- There will be enough for everyone and I'm sure his lawyers have done a fantastic job working out all of the details. My hunch is that the past few years has been spent getting family prepared to take over the business end of the Ilitch empire and getting management help and expert advice where they may need it.

    Regardless, the Tigers ownership personality will likely change and their will be some differences between Mike Ilitch and the new owner for sure, but I'm not sure if it means it would have any significant impact on the Tigers organization and how it is run. The Ilitch family has run the Tigers for some time and I don't see the Ilitch family suddenly deciding that a payroll closer to $60M should be the goal or anything earth shattering as a result. Little Ceasers didn't get to be a pizza empire built on trying to sell the latest fad (Free Tofu fries with your order of a vegi-pizza wrap!), they found a system that works and stuck with it. The Tigers have found a similar method to sucess and I don't forsee many changes to the way Dombrowski handles things when Mike Ilitch does pass.
    Last edited by STLTiger69; 11-25-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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    Maybe when Ilitch passes, Dombrowski decides he doesn't want to stick around and looks for a new job. Or maybe Ilitch's kids feud over who gets the team and the organization is thrown into disarray. Maybe Ilitch's heir decides he or she doesn't really have any interest in running a ballclub and decides to sell.

    We can speculate and assume, but the truth is no one really knows what will happen after Ilitch dies.
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    You would be hard pressed to imagine better ownership of your favorite team than Mr. Illitch. He doesn't have the entire league hating him, he spends, he's got agents who court him, he doesn't have the distinction of having bought his team during the assassination of a President. He isn't crazy that we know of.

    some cons...Marion Illitch apparently messed with the logo in the 90s which I still dread. He spent a LONG time before finding the right management team.
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    I have said this before and I will repeat here. I do think at all it is a sure thing that the team stays in ilitch hands when he passes. It had always been his team, not the family's team. He is listed as the owner not Marian like the wings. They have always emphasized the family this and family that but with the tigers just him. Not sure they want it and who knows.... maybe they want the cash infusion for the rest of the empire.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
    I have said this before and I will repeat here. I do think at all it is a sure thing that the team stays in ilitch hands when he passes. It had always been his team, not the family's team. He is listed as the owner not Marian like the wings. They have always emphasized the family this and family that but with the tigers just him. Not sure they want it and who knows.... maybe they want the cash infusion for the rest of the empire.
    IF they were to sell, the 1st name that comes to mind for me would be Dan Gilbert.

    Second would be Tom Gores, basically doing the reverse of what the Ilitchs were looking at.

    After that I don't know of any Michigan based money that would be out there, and I'd really hope it was a Michigan person buying them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigersSlappy View Post
    After that I don't know of any Michigan based money that would be out there, and I'd really hope it was a Michigan person buying them.
    Maybe a bunch of white trash musicians like Eminem, Kid Rock, and Jack While can pool their money?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Maybe a bunch of white trash musicians like Eminem, Kid Rock, and Jack While can pool their money?
    Would the pool be deep enough?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigersSlappy View Post

    Second would be Tom Gores, basically doing the reverse of what the Ilitchs were looking at.
    Does this mean Bobby Brown would be the between-inning special guest singer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    I'm sure that the Ilitch empire will be well taken care of. When your worth about $1.7BILLION dollars, you have people who specialize in estate planning and trust creation. The passing of Mike Ilitch will not start a mad search under a matress to see if he did a will or a huge family fist fight over who gets what- There will be enough for everyone and I'm sure his lawyers have done a fantastic job working out all of the details.
    Sure, but the younger generation - even with the right lawyers and planners are thinking logically - might decide to spend money "rationally" and focus on annual cash flow and return on investment, rather than dream about a championship and hope that capital gains upon selling the team will make up for so-so cash flow while owning it. Owning a pro sports team, let alone spending towards a championship is not how people became rich. It's how rich people indulge themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Maybe a bunch of white trash musicians like Eminem, Kid Rock, and Jack While can pool their money?
    Justin Bieber grew up in Stratford, Ontario which is on the fringe of Tigers' territory (although the Jays' have a stronger footprint there). Maybe Bieber will buy the team. AAA affiliate to be renamed the Toledo Baby Tigers.

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    I don't know why this keeps coming up. Chris Illitch has just as much to do with, if not more, with the Tigers at this point than Mike does. He is the one who oversees the work Dave Dombrowski is doing and he is the one who runs the business. Mike is not making any decisions without the approval of Chris at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    I don't know why this keeps coming up. Chris Illitch has just as much to do with, if not more, with the Tigers at this point than Mike does. He is the one who oversees the work Dave Dombrowski is doing and he is the one who runs the business. Mike is not making any decisions without the approval of Chris at this point.
    I don't think this is entirely true. Obviously we're talking more conjecture here than anything because we don't know the actual ins and outs of how the organization is working. I think Mike really loves the Tigers and really wants to win it all with them. Because of that he's willing to spend more than it might make good business sense to do. Chris might be overseeing things, but if push came to shove, I think Mike, as owner, as dad, as man with the money, overrules.

    I don't think we know Chris' devotion level with the Tigers. Does he care about them in the same way as Mike? For that matter, even if he does care about them as much as Mike, does he take a more long term, more fiscally responsible path with the team? I'm pretty sure that Mike is willing to spend like there's tomorrow with the Tigers because... well, there may be no tomorrow for him.

    On a side note... if the Tigers do go up for sale, anyone think the Ford's might be interested? And if so, would it be a good or bad thing? Before you answer too quickly, look at the differences between the leagues and how they operate before saying yeah or nay. For one thing, Ford has never been tight with the Lions. Millen used to say that he was known as A.T.M. around the Lions org rather than W.C.F. I don't think a small payroll would be an issue with WCF. The problem seems to always be that Ford is loyal to a fault. He doesn't cut the cord on a bad situation quickly enough. That's why we had 8 years of Millen. But if you have the right man in the front office... someone who knows what he's doing and just needs to the funds to do it and an owner who doesn't get in the way... Ford might be the perfect owner in that situation. The problem is just making sure you get the right man in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRamage View Post
    I don't think this is entirely true. Obviously we're talking more conjecture here than anything because we don't know the actual ins and outs of how the organization is working. I think Mike really loves the Tigers and really wants to win it all with them. Because of that he's willing to spend more than it might make good business sense to do. Chris might be overseeing things, but if push came to shove, I think Mike, as owner, as dad, as man with the money, overrules.

    I don't think we know Chris' devotion level with the Tigers. Does he care about them in the same way as Mike? For that matter, even if he does care about them as much as Mike, does he take a more long term, more fiscally responsible path with the team? I'm pretty sure that Mike is willing to spend like there's tomorrow with the Tigers because... well, there may be no tomorrow for him.

    On a side note... if the Tigers do go up for sale, anyone think the Ford's might be interested? And if so, would it be a good or bad thing? Before you answer too quickly, look at the differences between the leagues and how they operate before saying yeah or nay. For one thing, Ford has never been tight with the Lions. Millen used to say that he was known as A.T.M. around the Lions org rather than W.C.F. I don't think a small payroll would be an issue with WCF. The problem seems to always be that Ford is loyal to a fault. He doesn't cut the cord on a bad situation quickly enough. That's why we had 8 years of Millen. But if you have the right man in the front office... someone who knows what he's doing and just needs to the funds to do it and an owner who doesn't get in the way... Ford might be the perfect owner in that situation. The problem is just making sure you get the right man in there.
    Another Ford, Edsel, wanted to buy the team before Ilitch did. He's not really involved in the company anymore, I thik it's mostly charity stuff. Whether Bill Ford Jr would be a good owner or not means nothing to me in terms of his work at the Lions or at Ford Motor Company. Different entitites entirely.

    All I care about in an owner is someone who wants to give the fans a good experience at the ballpark and who isn't a penny pincher and will let his baseball people do their job and not be too impatient.

    With the high local ratings on FSD the Tigers could be a prime buy depending on the right TV deal. I think their ratings are among the highest in baseball.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
    I have said this before and I will repeat here. I do think at all it is a sure thing that the team stays in ilitch hands when he passes. It had always been his team, not the family's team. He is listed as the owner not Marian like the wings. They have always emphasized the family this and family that but with the tigers just him. Not sure they want it and who knows.... maybe they want the cash infusion for the rest of the empire.
    Its because Marian owns the casino.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Frame View Post
    Its because Marian owns the casino.
    Yeah she isn't allowed to be one of the owners because of this, based on Baseball rules. Now I guess he could add Chris to the ownership, but what's the point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    I don't know why this keeps coming up. Chris Illitch has just as much to do with, if not more, with the Tigers at this point than Mike does. He is the one who oversees the work Dave Dombrowski is doing and he is the one who runs the business. Mike is not making any decisions without the approval of Chris at this point.
    Chris may be handling the day-to-day operation of the team, but I have to believe that Mike has a lot of influence even if he is not actually running the business. When Mike dies and his influence is no longer in the background, it is very possible the team will be run differently. Nobody knows.
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    Some intelligent and broadly divergent perspectives here, all pointing to the same basic truth -- nobody knows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Frame View Post
    Its because Marian owns the casino.
    I think the larger point being made by Rob is that Marian is much more invested in the Red Wings emotionally than she is the Tigers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    I think the larger point being made by Rob is that Marian is much more invested in the Red Wings emotionally than she is the Tigers.
    Yes. You always see the family around when they talk about or show the Red Wing ownership. My perception has always been that the Tigers are Mike Ilitch's toy and the rest of the family doesn't care as much about it. I remember when they'd win their cups you'd see Marian and the other kids there. When the Tigers won the AL Pennants did you see any of them on the field? Do you ever see them in the box with him? Even before she owned the Casino it seemed like that.

    I'm not saying they won't keep in the family. I just wouldn't be surprised in the least if when the time comes they unload it. I imagine Chris Ilitch is pretty busy presiding over all of Ilitch Holdings. Just seems to be too big of an entity to hand over to one kid over another.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
    I have said this before and I will repeat here. I do think at all it is a sure thing that the team stays in ilitch hands when he passes. It had always been his team, not the family's team. He is listed as the owner not Marian like the wings. They have always emphasized the family this and family that but with the tigers just him. Not sure they want it and who knows.... maybe they want the cash infusion for the rest of the empire.
    Marian is not listed as an owner because she owns a casino. She was listed and then they took her off when she became the majority owner of Motor City. NHL does not have the same rules as MLB regarding casino ownership, hence why she is more present in the public eye and still listed as an owner.

    Illitch Holdings has done nothing in recent years to suggest downsizing, if anything they have been pretty aggressive with all of their companies recently, which would suggest that they are in it for the long haul.

    From a business standpoint, I'd be more concerned with their ownership stake in the wings simply becuase they don't have a building, and Comerica is located in the heart of their empire and is gaining in attendance and popularity where the Wings and hockey have been losing market share in the area. MLB's revenue sharing and television contracts offer far more lucrative advantages then owning a Hockey team. Any type of public financing or bond sales will require public support and owning the Tigers will help in that crusade.

    All these posts are speculation at this point. Until there is smoke or even rumors with qualified sources I refuse to put much stock into it either way. But nothing has come out either way suggesting that we should believe the Tigers are for sale, especially from a family that tried to buy the Pistons a few years ago when Mike was ove 80.

    They backed out of the Pistons deal becuase they felt it was overvalued. They bought the Tiger's and Wings at a pretty bargin basement price and turned them into jewels. Motor City was purchased for far less than the value and turned into a money making machine and invested money to build the new hotel. Their business model thus far has been to buy low and invest and havne't sold one company they owned yet!

    With active participation from the kids and grandkids I'd be surprised to see them do a sell off. Same goes with the Ford's and Bill Ford Jr.'s presence. If anything, the kids may be driving the business vehicle to continue and grow!
    Last edited by benrush; 11-26-2012 at 09:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
    I have said this before and I will repeat here. I do think at all it is a sure thing that the team stays in ilitch hands when he passes. It had always been his team, not the family's team. He is listed as the owner not Marian like the wings. They have always emphasized the family this and family that but with the tigers just him. Not sure they want it and who knows.... maybe they want the cash infusion for the rest of the empire.
    I agree with you on this. Chris may be more day to day with the whole empire including the Tigers, but it's Mike that overspends to get the superstar players, it's Mike that has the win at any cost attitude. I don't think the rest of the family has that kind of passion for it, and if that is the case the right thing to do would be to sell the team. It's tricky because so much other investment by them is so visible in and around the stadium that they might just keep it to be part of the whole package, but to them the wins and losses might not matter as much as the bottom line.


    I would love it if Mark Cuban owned the Tigers. I think he's a good fit here. He would never ever distance the fans from the experience. He's a guy the community would like and he wants to win...and he'll spend. But the country club owner atmosphere wants to reject him.
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    Chris Ilitch is running the day-to-day operations. Mike just basically takes the calls from Scott Boras. I think the family will treat it like a business once the Tigers win a World Series or Mr. Ilitch passes away, whichever happens first (I hope it is in that order). Meaning, the payroll will be more consistent with revenue vs. what we've seen the last few seasons where it is clear the family is spending to win a World Series. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if we had beat the Giants.

    I have a good buddy who is close with the family and he doesn't believe there will be any family squabbles--those decisions seem to have already been made. However, they could always decide to sell. Dan Gilbert would probably fall over himself to become owner of the Tigers. He's a bigger advocate for the revitalization of the city of Detroit than Ilitch and certainly has the financial means to do it. How does Quicken Loans Park strike all of you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clemma View Post
    How does Quicken Loans Park strike all of you?
    Not much different than Comerica and more local at this point in time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigersSlappy View Post
    IF they were to sell, the 1st name that comes to mind for me would be Dan Gilbert.

    Second would be Tom Gores, basically doing the reverse of what the Ilitchs were looking at.

    After that I don't know of any Michigan based money that would be out there, and I'd really hope it was a Michigan person buying them.
    The Strykers of Kalamazoo and the DeVos family might be interested in the event of a sale. Who knows.
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    With the way the new collective bargining agreement is structered I'd be shocked if the Illitch's sold. The new deal seems to favor the Tigers to collecti big chunks of revenue sharing checks while teams like the White Sox and Blue Jays will have to fork over there checks begining in 2016 and large portions begining in 2014.

    As a payee team we will continue to have 1 and 2 odds of collecting a compensation pick every year in the second round of competitive balance lottery.

    Each team has to pay 34 percent of their total revenue into a pot and is distributed equally among the 30 teams. In 2013 the big market teams will begin to be phased out of the revenue sharing proceeds and that pool will be distributed based on a formula.

    The formula is comprised of Total revenue minus operating expenses which gives them a percentage. The percentage is times with the big market teams pool and divided up.

    The old formula would have actually produced a lesser revenue sharing check than the one contributed due to the increases the Tigers have made on their total revenue. Thats why teams like the Marlins benefit because they pay 34 percent on their own revenue as opposed to the yankees who pay 34 percent on their revenue before they are evenly distributed.

    To prevent low market teams from under spending the formula to divide the other portion of revenue is based on a teams total revenue minus revenue sharing paid out minus operating expenses. I think this is why teams like the Royals are ramping up their payroll because they could majorly benefit from the new rules.

    The old revenue sharing procedures gave the Tigers less than 5 million based on what they paid out, With the new rules in place, they stand to collect 30 to 60 million annually by simply being deemed a low market team. Even though we have more revenue than the Sox or Jays, based on economic conditions and population, those areas are deemed by MLB to be big market clubs or Payors!
    Last edited by benrush; 11-28-2012 at 04:09 PM.

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