Baseball America's Tigers Top 10

[Oblong]

and Jason Johnson.

[PuNk42AE]

Craig Paquette?

[PuNk42AE]

Thinking about it, it's kind of interesting that the Tigers were able to overpay and still get people here. A lot of teams haven't been able to do that lately (although it's now 6+ years ago for the Tigers). But remember how the O's have gone big on a handful of names and always come up empty since Albert Belle.

[alwaysthrowheat]

To get any player to sign....I. Rodriguez, Ordonez, Fielder and even T. Hunter...they have had to over pay to sign and retain .

I said 5 years. Only Fielder and Hunter were in the last 5 years. Fielder was only signed because of the owner. It had nothing to do with "system depth" either. Was Hunter really an overpay, anyhow?

The Tigers have gone from a team that you'd have to overpay drastically for FA to a place where players want to come to win a championship.

[pyrotigers]

I always hear that our farm system is weak beyond a few top guys we overpaid for. Yet it never seems to stop us from making a move we need to make.

I ignore these anyway. What did it look like in 2010? In 2008?

Fortunately if you have an owner willing to spend lots of money and an already good major league roster you can get by without worrying about having a great farm system. It would still be nice if the Tigers top 10 wasn't mostly 'questionable prospect in A ball' 'relief pitcher' and 'Adam Wilk' though

[Yoda]

Neither did the Yankees. In fact, their great World Series teams of the late 90s were more homegrown than the Tigers. The Tigers just signed Hunter and now Illitch is casually asking when are they going to sign Sanchez. If all goes well with ownership, they'll be able to keep all their stars too. That's just like the Yankees. Is that a bad thing?

I took the whole tone of that post, and past posts where you compared them to the Yankees, as a complaint. Maybe you didn't mean it to sound that way, but that's how it read to me.

[benrush]

Farm systems are overrated. They are usually based on tools. We could have the second coming of Juan Encarnacion and Felix Pie and be ranked in the top five of baseball. Casey Crosby has been a top ten prospect for six years because he throws really hard!

The Royals don't have one guy in their rotation that would crack our top five and consider Bruce Chen the ace of the staff! The Indians have been rebuilding and selling off talent for the better part of five years and their system still sucks! The Twins draft Kevin Rinke types and have a philosophy about the fundamentals or whatever ... A's are good at trades but their drafts are aweful. The Cubs still have Josh Vitters as a top 10 prospect and he was the No. 2 prospect during the Granderson trade rumors! The Pirates have been aweful for a decade and they really don't sell expensive players because they haven't had any minus Jack Wilson! The Giants, Rangers, Tampa Bay, and the Nationals have had really good farm systems. But with the rules in place the aweful mlb teams should have the best farm systems and that isn't always the case!

Farm systems tend to be a big hype machine. We don't have great prospects by any means, but we also haven't had a first round pick since 2009 and operate under a small budget on the international scene. From the resources available I think our system is better than people give it credit for. We don't have a system littered with tools, but we also don't spend enough or have high enough picks to get them. We have only picked up two comp picks in the last five years, The A's have had 14 for comparison. We have used our system to acquire mlb talent and it won't prevent us next year!

Non Tools players I like:
1. Eugino Suarez SS
2. Dean Green 1b/DH
3. Tyler Collins LF
4. Curt Casalli C
5. Devon Travis 2b

[cruzer1]

Who can play without tools?

[TigersSlappy]

Who can play without tools?

Pre Stone Age children?

[Scottish caveman]

I said 5 years. Only Fielder and Hunter were in the last 5 years. Fielder was only signed because of the owner. It had nothing to do with "system depth" either. Was Hunter really an overpay, anyhow?

The Tigers have gone from a team that you'd have to overpay drastically for FA to a place where players want to come to win a championship.

I, myself, would say they overpaid for V. Martinez, Benoit and overpaid to retain Willis, Guillen and when Sheffield was a FA.

[Nastradamus]

They paid a bit of an open market premium for Martinez, but its hard to say they really overpaid. Look at what other guys like Werth and Dunn(who many wanted at the price he got) received on the open market. Benoit has proven to mostly be worth the money, though year 3 will be huge.

Those other contracts were terrible, but we haven't done anything similar since really.

[Yoda]

Who can play without tools?

Exactly. All of those players have baseball skills. The whole sum of that post made little sense. Sounded really forward-thinking and thought-provoking but I don't get it.

[Yoda]

I, myself, would say they overpaid for V. Martinez, Benoit and overpaid to retain Willis, Guillen and when Sheffield was a FA.

Cool. And maybe they did. When I go out to eat, I overpay by tipping well. Maybe the Tigers just like to pay their players more to keep them happy. And if that's the case, it's working. Because players love to play here. It's probably a combination of winning, have a "players manager", and knowing they'll be well-paid. It works.

Is that such a bad thing? This whole overpaid thing gets entirely overblown at times. They can play their players whatever they think they're worth.

[tiger337]

I took the whole tone of that post, and past posts where you compared them to the Yankees, as a complaint. Maybe you didn't mean it to sound that way, but that's how it read to me.

It's somewhere in between. I'd rather they win this way than be like they were from 95-03, but a more homegrown team where the GM has to work hard to build within a budget would be more fun.

[alwaysthrowheat]

I, myself, would say they overpaid for V. Martinez, Benoit and overpaid to retain Willis, Guillen and when Sheffield was a FA.

Martinez remains to be seen, but I'd tend to disagree. He was a huge part of the team's success in 2011, and I'd guess he'll be a big part of their success in 2013 and 2014. Benoit has been worth 6MM the last two seasons. Willis was not a free agent, nor did he have anything to do with not having enough depth in the minor league system. Guillen was not a free agent, but that extension did not work out. It was hard to argue with that one at the time, but that's fine. Sheffield was not a free agent, but that extension was a mistake.

[Scottish caveman]

But some of the money spent precluded them from the acquistion of talent whether through the draft or signing professional or amateur prospects . Both willis and Sheffield were close to their contracts running out . The money used there could have been used to procure prospects for the system...understandably , still a iffy situation.

[Yoda]

But some of the money spent precluded them from the acquistion of talent whether through the draft or signing professional or amateur prospects . Both willis and Sheffield were close to their contracts running out . The money used there could have been used to procure prospects for the system...understandably , still a iffy situation.

The difference from being paid fairly to being overpaid probably isn't what prevented them from doing any of this. But who knows.

[will the thrill]

I, myself, would say they overpaid for V. Martinez, Benoit and overpaid to retain Willis, Guillen and when Sheffield was a FA.

The overpays for Hunter and Martinez and even Benoit somewhat were more calculated overpays to get the player to agree to a deal before any other teams could join in and start raising the price. It's a very smart strategy in my opinion, Prince on the other hand was more a "we want this guy" so pay what i takes.

[irvink]

Sickels, who is kind of hacky, put his top 20 list up. Strikingly similar to BA's.

Detroit Tigers Top 20 Prospects for 2013 - Minor League Ball

[ballmich]

The idea of Adam Wilk in our top 10 is scary. I don't ever expect him to contribute much of anything.

Wilk was disappointing, and shows just how thin our system is. I hope I'm wrong about Wilk, but at most he appears to be a journeyman long reliever.

[ballmich]

I thought they came to Detroit because of Fernando Vina.

I thought it was despite Fernando Vina? Maybe he was why we had to overpay?

[alwaysthrowheat]

But some of the money spent precluded them from the acquistion of talent whether through the draft or signing professional or amateur prospects . Both willis and Sheffield were close to their contracts running out . The money used there could have been used to procure prospects for the system...understandably , still a iffy situation.

No it doesn't. There's a budget now in the draft and international signings. You can only spend so much. And they went over slot often, even when there wasn't a budget.

[DET Mr Malefic]

I always hear that our farm system is weak beyond a few top guys we overpaid for. Yet it never seems to stop us from making a move we need to make.

I ignore these anyway. What did it look like in 2010? In 2008?

2008

1. Rick Porcello, P
2. Cale Iorg, SS
3. Scott Sizemore, 2B
4. Michael Hollimon, 2B/SS
5. Yorman Bazardo, P
6. Jeff Larish, 1B
7. Matt Joyce, OF
8. Danny Worth, SS
9. Francisco Cruceta, P
10. Brandon Hamilton, P


Eight of those guys saw time with the Tigers, though none except Porcello made significant contributions to the team. Worth still could be the new Santiago for awhile if they deem fit. Porcello and Joyce clearly are the best of that group. Sizemore could still have a short, decent career if he ever stays healthy.


2010

1. Jacob Turner, P
2. Casey Crosby, P
3. Austin Jackson, OF
4. Andy Oliver, P
5. Daniel Schlereth, P
6. Alex Avila, C
7. Gustavo Nunez, SS
8. Wilkin Ramirez, OF
9. Daniel Fields, SS
10. Scott Sizemore, 2B


To date, eight of these guys have also seen time in Detroit and two of them are now fixed, locked-in starters. None of the others have made significant contributions. Turner had a good season in Miami and may well end up meeting his #1 expectation. Crosby is still a question mark but 2013 will probably be his make-or-break year in terms of living up to his potential.

[irvink]

Wilk was disappointing, and shows just how thin our system is. I hope I'm wrong about Wilk, but at most he appears to be a journeyman long reliever.

I agree with your assessment of Wilk, however, I would wager that folks who know the Tigers' system better, like the Tigstown guys, won't even have Wilk in their top 20.

On another note, here is a pretty encouraging report on Castellanos' progress in the AFL.

It is difficult for a young player to concentrate on improving hitting mechanics against higher quality pitching while also making a position transition. Moving from third base to the outfield requires a different set of mechanical skills. Repetition and practice before games and in game conditions is crucial. The high fall Arizona sky can make life miserable for an outfielder.

Castellanos, however, handled playing the outfield very well. He got good reads off the bat on balls hit in the air. In general, he took good routes and showed enough arm strength and accuracy to play either corner outfield position. He has enough speed and ability to become an average quality Major League corner outfielder.

It is likely the addition of Torii Hunter to the Tigers' outfield will give Castellanos time to experience a complete and thorough skill and physical development.

Castellanos projects to become the type of middle-of-the-order hitter that can produce runs and change games with one swing of the bat. Now, all he needs is time to hone his skills against increasingly better quality pitching.

Bernie Pleskoff: Tigers prospect Nick Castellanos adapting to life in the outfield | tigers.com: News

[Scottish caveman]

No it doesn't. There's a budget now in the draft and international signings. You can only spend so much. And they went over slot often, even when there wasn't a budget.

They went over budget on the top picks and very few others....they undercut the International prospects other than Vasquez...the budget was strictly a concept until this past draft when they put some teeth in the threat....there is no question that the money spent could have brought in more prospects without the Big League free agent signings !

[Yoda]

I would say that statement certainly is questionable.

[alwaysthrowheat]

They went over budget on the top picks and very few others....they undercut the International prospects other than Vasquez...the budget was strictly a concept until this past draft when they put some teeth in the threat....there is no question that the money spent could have brought in more prospects without the Big League free agent signings !

The Tigers went over slot pretty often. They didn't undercut international prospects, the Tigers (and DD) aren't an organization that spends very much on them in general.

Let me put it a different way, even if the Tigers overpaid on a free agent or two, there's no way that it prohibited them from spending an extra 250K, 500K, or 1MM in the draft or via international signings. If there was someone the Tigers were interested in, they've never been shy about ponying up the money.

[Scottish caveman]

The Tigers went over slot pretty often. They didn't undercut international prospects, the Tigers (and DD) aren't an organization that spends very much on them in general.

Let me put it a different way, even if the Tigers overpaid on a free agent or two, there's no way that it prohibited them from spending an extra 250K, 500K, or 1MM in the draft or via international signings. If there was someone the Tigers were interested in, they've never been shy about ponying up the money.

We will have to agree to disagree on this point, but I respect your opinion.