Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 68 of 68
  1. #41
    Oblong's Avatar
    Oblong is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    61,294

    Default




    and Jason Johnson.
    .

  2. #42
    PuNk42AE's Avatar
    PuNk42AE is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    26,528

    Default

    Craig Paquette?
    VT B.R.B. "We only part to meet again"

    2014 AAT: RHP Warwick Saupold


  3. #43
    PuNk42AE's Avatar
    PuNk42AE is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    26,528

    Default

    Thinking about it, it's kind of interesting that the Tigers were able to overpay and still get people here. A lot of teams haven't been able to do that lately (although it's now 6+ years ago for the Tigers). But remember how the O's have gone big on a handful of names and always come up empty since Albert Belle.
    VT B.R.B. "We only part to meet again"

    2014 AAT: RHP Warwick Saupold


  4. #44
    alwaysthrowheat's Avatar
    alwaysthrowheat is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    4,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish caveman View Post
    To get any player to sign....I. Rodriguez, Ordonez, Fielder and even T. Hunter...they have had to over pay to sign and retain .
    I said 5 years. Only Fielder and Hunter were in the last 5 years. Fielder was only signed because of the owner. It had nothing to do with "system depth" either. Was Hunter really an overpay, anyhow?

    The Tigers have gone from a team that you'd have to overpay drastically for FA to a place where players want to come to win a championship.

  5. #45
    pyrotigers's Avatar
    pyrotigers is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Wellston, Michigan
    Posts
    15,958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
    I always hear that our farm system is weak beyond a few top guys we overpaid for. Yet it never seems to stop us from making a move we need to make.

    I ignore these anyway. What did it look like in 2010? In 2008?
    Fortunately if you have an owner willing to spend lots of money and an already good major league roster you can get by without worrying about having a great farm system. It would still be nice if the Tigers top 10 wasn't mostly 'questionable prospect in A ball' 'relief pitcher' and 'Adam Wilk' though
    Kobernoooooous

  6. #46
    Yoda's Avatar
    Yoda is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    59,379
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Neither did the Yankees. In fact, their great World Series teams of the late 90s were more homegrown than the Tigers. The Tigers just signed Hunter and now Illitch is casually asking when are they going to sign Sanchez. If all goes well with ownership, they'll be able to keep all their stars too. That's just like the Yankees. Is that a bad thing?
    I took the whole tone of that post, and past posts where you compared them to the Yankees, as a complaint. Maybe you didn't mean it to sound that way, but that's how it read to me.
    Up above, aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home.
    Facebook

  7. #47
    benrush is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    738

    Default

    Farm systems are overrated. They are usually based on tools. We could have the second coming of Juan Encarnacion and Felix Pie and be ranked in the top five of baseball. Casey Crosby has been a top ten prospect for six years because he throws really hard!

    The Royals don't have one guy in their rotation that would crack our top five and consider Bruce Chen the ace of the staff! The Indians have been rebuilding and selling off talent for the better part of five years and their system still sucks! The Twins draft Kevin Rinke types and have a philosophy about the fundamentals or whatever ... A's are good at trades but their drafts are aweful. The Cubs still have Josh Vitters as a top 10 prospect and he was the No. 2 prospect during the Granderson trade rumors! The Pirates have been aweful for a decade and they really don't sell expensive players because they haven't had any minus Jack Wilson! The Giants, Rangers, Tampa Bay, and the Nationals have had really good farm systems. But with the rules in place the aweful mlb teams should have the best farm systems and that isn't always the case!

    Farm systems tend to be a big hype machine. We don't have great prospects by any means, but we also haven't had a first round pick since 2009 and operate under a small budget on the international scene. From the resources available I think our system is better than people give it credit for. We don't have a system littered with tools, but we also don't spend enough or have high enough picks to get them. We have only picked up two comp picks in the last five years, The A's have had 14 for comparison. We have used our system to acquire mlb talent and it won't prevent us next year!

    Non Tools players I like:
    1. Eugino Suarez SS
    2. Dean Green 1b/DH
    3. Tyler Collins LF
    4. Curt Casalli C
    5. Devon Travis 2b

  8. #48
    cruzer1's Avatar
    cruzer1 is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    32,123
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default

    Who can play without tools?
    Where's Zimm?
    VT

  9. #49
    TigersSlappy's Avatar
    TigersSlappy is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Luzerne - Home of Ma Deeters
    Posts
    10,185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cruzer1 View Post
    Who can play without tools?
    Pre Stone Age children?
    2014AAT-Buck Farmer 2013AAT-Mr Ilitch 2013 AAL-Nick Fairley 2012AAL-Willie Young 2012AAT-Dixon Machado 2011AAL-Tom "Killer" Kowalski 2011AAT-Heather Nabozny 2010AAT-Phil Coke 2008&2007AAT-Sergio Collado
    2007AT-AAT-Alan Trammell

  10. #50
    Scottish caveman's Avatar
    Scottish caveman is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Grand Ledge, MI
    Posts
    1,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    I said 5 years. Only Fielder and Hunter were in the last 5 years. Fielder was only signed because of the owner. It had nothing to do with "system depth" either. Was Hunter really an overpay, anyhow?

    The Tigers have gone from a team that you'd have to overpay drastically for FA to a place where players want to come to win a championship.
    I, myself, would say they overpaid for V. Martinez, Benoit and overpaid to retain Willis, Guillen and when Sheffield was a FA.

  11. #51
    Nastradamus is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    9,697

    Default

    They paid a bit of an open market premium for Martinez, but its hard to say they really overpaid. Look at what other guys like Werth and Dunn(who many wanted at the price he got) received on the open market. Benoit has proven to mostly be worth the money, though year 3 will be huge.

    Those other contracts were terrible, but we haven't done anything similar since really.

  12. #52
    Yoda's Avatar
    Yoda is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    59,379
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cruzer1 View Post
    Who can play without tools?
    Exactly. All of those players have baseball skills. The whole sum of that post made little sense. Sounded really forward-thinking and thought-provoking but I don't get it.
    Last edited by Yoda; 11-18-2012 at 02:54 PM.
    Up above, aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home.
    Facebook

  13. #53
    Yoda's Avatar
    Yoda is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    59,379
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish caveman View Post
    I, myself, would say they overpaid for V. Martinez, Benoit and overpaid to retain Willis, Guillen and when Sheffield was a FA.
    Cool. And maybe they did. When I go out to eat, I overpay by tipping well. Maybe the Tigers just like to pay their players more to keep them happy. And if that's the case, it's working. Because players love to play here. It's probably a combination of winning, have a "players manager", and knowing they'll be well-paid. It works.

    Is that such a bad thing? This whole overpaid thing gets entirely overblown at times. They can play their players whatever they think they're worth.
    Last edited by Yoda; 11-18-2012 at 02:54 PM.
    Up above, aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home.
    Facebook

  14. #54
    tiger337's Avatar
    tiger337 is offline MotownSports Writer
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    46,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    I took the whole tone of that post, and past posts where you compared them to the Yankees, as a complaint. Maybe you didn't mean it to sound that way, but that's how it read to me.
    It's somewhere in between. I'd rather they win this way than be like they were from 95-03, but a more homegrown team where the GM has to work hard to build within a budget would be more fun.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  15. #55
    alwaysthrowheat's Avatar
    alwaysthrowheat is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    4,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish caveman View Post
    I, myself, would say they overpaid for V. Martinez, Benoit and overpaid to retain Willis, Guillen and when Sheffield was a FA.
    Martinez remains to be seen, but I'd tend to disagree. He was a huge part of the team's success in 2011, and I'd guess he'll be a big part of their success in 2013 and 2014. Benoit has been worth 6MM the last two seasons. Willis was not a free agent, nor did he have anything to do with not having enough depth in the minor league system. Guillen was not a free agent, but that extension did not work out. It was hard to argue with that one at the time, but that's fine. Sheffield was not a free agent, but that extension was a mistake.

  16. #56
    Scottish caveman's Avatar
    Scottish caveman is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Grand Ledge, MI
    Posts
    1,059

    Default

    But some of the money spent precluded them from the acquistion of talent whether through the draft or signing professional or amateur prospects . Both willis and Sheffield were close to their contracts running out . The money used there could have been used to procure prospects for the system...understandably , still a iffy situation.

  17. #57
    Yoda's Avatar
    Yoda is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    59,379
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish caveman View Post
    But some of the money spent precluded them from the acquistion of talent whether through the draft or signing professional or amateur prospects . Both willis and Sheffield were close to their contracts running out . The money used there could have been used to procure prospects for the system...understandably , still a iffy situation.
    The difference from being paid fairly to being overpaid probably isn't what prevented them from doing any of this. But who knows.
    Up above, aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home.
    Facebook

  18. #58
    will the thrill is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Jackson
    Posts
    2,973

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish caveman View Post
    I, myself, would say they overpaid for V. Martinez, Benoit and overpaid to retain Willis, Guillen and when Sheffield was a FA.
    The overpays for Hunter and Martinez and even Benoit somewhat were more calculated overpays to get the player to agree to a deal before any other teams could join in and start raising the price. It's a very smart strategy in my opinion, Prince on the other hand was more a "we want this guy" so pay what i takes.
    Put me on record. Prince Fielder will still OPS 850+ in years 7-8-9 of this contract. (sucks that my signature has to stay this for 7 years now)

  19. #59
    irvink's Avatar
    irvink is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    2,067

    Default

    Sickels, who is kind of hacky, put his top 20 list up. Strikingly similar to BA's.

    Detroit Tigers Top 20 Prospects for 2013 - Minor League Ball

  20. #60
    ballmich is online now MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Valencia, CA
    Posts
    16,511

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    The idea of Adam Wilk in our top 10 is scary. I don't ever expect him to contribute much of anything.
    Wilk was disappointing, and shows just how thin our system is. I hope I'm wrong about Wilk, but at most he appears to be a journeyman long reliever.
    Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.

  21. #61
    ballmich is online now MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Valencia, CA
    Posts
    16,511

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    I thought they came to Detroit because of Fernando Vina.
    I thought it was despite Fernando Vina? Maybe he was why we had to overpay?
    Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.

  22. #62
    alwaysthrowheat's Avatar
    alwaysthrowheat is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    4,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish caveman View Post
    But some of the money spent precluded them from the acquistion of talent whether through the draft or signing professional or amateur prospects . Both willis and Sheffield were close to their contracts running out . The money used there could have been used to procure prospects for the system...understandably , still a iffy situation.
    No it doesn't. There's a budget now in the draft and international signings. You can only spend so much. And they went over slot often, even when there wasn't a budget.

  23. #63
    DET Mr Malefic's Avatar
    DET Mr Malefic is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lapeer County, MI
    Posts
    5,678

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
    I always hear that our farm system is weak beyond a few top guys we overpaid for. Yet it never seems to stop us from making a move we need to make.

    I ignore these anyway. What did it look like in 2010? In 2008?
    2008

    1. Rick Porcello, P
    2. Cale Iorg, SS
    3. Scott Sizemore, 2B
    4. Michael Hollimon, 2B/SS
    5. Yorman Bazardo, P
    6. Jeff Larish, 1B
    7. Matt Joyce, OF
    8. Danny Worth, SS
    9. Francisco Cruceta, P
    10. Brandon Hamilton, P


    Eight of those guys saw time with the Tigers, though none except Porcello made significant contributions to the team. Worth still could be the new Santiago for awhile if they deem fit. Porcello and Joyce clearly are the best of that group. Sizemore could still have a short, decent career if he ever stays healthy.


    2010

    1. Jacob Turner, P
    2. Casey Crosby, P
    3. Austin Jackson, OF
    4. Andy Oliver, P
    5. Daniel Schlereth, P
    6. Alex Avila, C
    7. Gustavo Nunez, SS
    8. Wilkin Ramirez, OF
    9. Daniel Fields, SS
    10. Scott Sizemore, 2B


    To date, eight of these guys have also seen time in Detroit and two of them are now fixed, locked-in starters. None of the others have made significant contributions. Turner had a good season in Miami and may well end up meeting his #1 expectation. Crosby is still a question mark but 2013 will probably be his make-or-break year in terms of living up to his potential.
    Tigers record when in attendance: 2012: 3-2 W1 Home: 1-2, Away 2-0

    Tigers record when in attendance: 2011: 6-7 L5 Home: 4-5, Away 2-1, Playoffs Home: 0-1

  24. #64
    irvink's Avatar
    irvink is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    2,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Wilk was disappointing, and shows just how thin our system is. I hope I'm wrong about Wilk, but at most he appears to be a journeyman long reliever.
    I agree with your assessment of Wilk, however, I would wager that folks who know the Tigers' system better, like the Tigstown guys, won't even have Wilk in their top 20.

    On another note, here is a pretty encouraging report on Castellanos' progress in the AFL.

    It is difficult for a young player to concentrate on improving hitting mechanics against higher quality pitching while also making a position transition. Moving from third base to the outfield requires a different set of mechanical skills. Repetition and practice before games and in game conditions is crucial. The high fall Arizona sky can make life miserable for an outfielder.

    Castellanos, however, handled playing the outfield very well. He got good reads off the bat on balls hit in the air. In general, he took good routes and showed enough arm strength and accuracy to play either corner outfield position. He has enough speed and ability to become an average quality Major League corner outfielder.

    It is likely the addition of Torii Hunter to the Tigers' outfield will give Castellanos time to experience a complete and thorough skill and physical development.

    Castellanos projects to become the type of middle-of-the-order hitter that can produce runs and change games with one swing of the bat. Now, all he needs is time to hone his skills against increasingly better quality pitching.
    Bernie Pleskoff: Tigers prospect Nick Castellanos adapting to life in the outfield | tigers.com: News

  25. #65
    Scottish caveman's Avatar
    Scottish caveman is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Grand Ledge, MI
    Posts
    1,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    No it doesn't. There's a budget now in the draft and international signings. You can only spend so much. And they went over slot often, even when there wasn't a budget.
    They went over budget on the top picks and very few others....they undercut the International prospects other than Vasquez...the budget was strictly a concept until this past draft when they put some teeth in the threat....there is no question that the money spent could have brought in more prospects without the Big League free agent signings !
    Last edited by Scottish caveman; 11-19-2012 at 05:03 PM.

  26. #66
    Yoda's Avatar
    Yoda is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    59,379
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I would say that statement certainly is questionable.
    Up above, aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home.
    Facebook

  27. #67
    alwaysthrowheat's Avatar
    alwaysthrowheat is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    4,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish caveman View Post
    They went over budget on the top picks and very few others....they undercut the International prospects other than Vasquez...the budget was strictly a concept until this past draft when they put some teeth in the threat....there is no question that the money spent could have brought in more prospects without the Big League free agent signings !
    The Tigers went over slot pretty often. They didn't undercut international prospects, the Tigers (and DD) aren't an organization that spends very much on them in general.

    Let me put it a different way, even if the Tigers overpaid on a free agent or two, there's no way that it prohibited them from spending an extra 250K, 500K, or 1MM in the draft or via international signings. If there was someone the Tigers were interested in, they've never been shy about ponying up the money.

  28. #68
    Scottish caveman's Avatar
    Scottish caveman is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Grand Ledge, MI
    Posts
    1,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    The Tigers went over slot pretty often. They didn't undercut international prospects, the Tigers (and DD) aren't an organization that spends very much on them in general.

    Let me put it a different way, even if the Tigers overpaid on a free agent or two, there's no way that it prohibited them from spending an extra 250K, 500K, or 1MM in the draft or via international signings. If there was someone the Tigers were interested in, they've never been shy about ponying up the money.
    We will have to agree to disagree on this point, but I respect your opinion.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Baseball America's Top 100
    By itsallgood8989 in forum Detroit Tigers
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 03-11-2010, 07:48 PM
  2. Baseball America's top 100 prospects
    By Johnny Mac in forum Minor League Baseball
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-05-2007, 11:20 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-06-2006, 08:02 PM
  4. Baseball America's top 10 GM prospects
    By estrepe1 in forum Major League Baseball
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-16-2003, 08:41 AM
  5. Baseball America's Top 100 Prospects
    By OldTimey in forum Minor League Baseball
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-04-2003, 01:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •