Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 63
  1. #1
    STLTiger69 is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    2,086

    Default What's your plan for Anibal Sanchez?




    First, I don't want to detract from other threads, but I do mean to focus rather narrowly on the topic of what the Tigers planning for Anibal Sanchez as a free agent might me.

    What are your ideas if Sanchez stays or goes?

    I think the consensus of the board is to re-sign him (indeed, Dave Dombrowski has indicated that he does intend to try and get Sanchez back), but I think it's fair to say everybody has a different amount in terms of years and dollar amount that the Tigers would be willing to do to resign Sanchez.

    The best as I can tell is like this:

    PART 1:

    We get Sanchez!


    Option 1: sign Sanchez and then trade Porcello (off sets Sanchez's contract price with the savings on not having to pay for Porcello's contract) and move Smyly into the 5th spot.

    OR

    Option 2: Sign Sanchez and keep Porcello and than either make Smyly a swing man/middle reliever or send him back to AAA to get some innings as a starter...just in case....


    PART 2

    We don't get Sanchez back


    The Tigers give Sanchez a "this is our best and final offer" in terms of dollars and years and a deadline to accept, and Sanchez respectfully through his agent conveys "no thanks".

    Plan A: Get someone else along the lines of Sanchez

    This is a bit difficult because you have to ask yourself are you ok with the risk of injury?

    IF you perfer no injury history, names like Edwin Jackson, Kyle Lohse, Dan Haren and Hiroki Kuroda might come to mind as possible options to replace Sanchez.

    If your ok with a little (lol ok,...or a lot) of injury risk the list gets a bit more spicy; Shaun Marcum and Brandon McCarthy might be on your short list too.

    Plan B: Don't do anything, Porcello is #4 starter, Smyly is #5 and the Tigers 2013 pitching rotation is set and the Tigers save a small fortune to fix another problem that will arise sooner than later.

    Plan C: Take a flyer on a veteran pitcher instead.

    Two names come to mind specifically and let me warn you, the names sound good but the numbers are not that great. Ryan Dempster and Roy Oswalt are two names that come to mind. Both got traded to Texas and both really didn't do anything to help their value by getting kicked around in Texas and both are coming off huge contracts. There is a possibility that they might go for a low ball one year "pillow contract" deal to try and get some value back. True, they could probably get that with any team but would you want to be seen as the savior of the Cleveland Indians or just the 4th (lol, or 5th) starter for the Detroit Tigers and actually play in front of 3 million fans again?

    Plan D: Get a "innings eater" to get us through...

    I really don't see this happening because I think even the Tigers would prefer to see Porcello or Smyly kicked around all year hoping they get better than try to get a player like Derek Lowe or Joe Blanton who will likely be just as bad or worse than Porcello or Smyly and cost much more too.....But it is still an option.


    Thanks for reading and I cannot wait to hear the forums thoughts!
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  2. #2
    Yoda's Avatar
    Yoda is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    57,460
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Smyly > Porcello. If they do sign Sanchez, which I'm starting to doubt, I'd rather see Smyly in the rotation and either move Porcello to the pen or trade him.
    Up above, aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home.
    Facebook

  3. #3
    tiger337's Avatar
    tiger337 is offline MotownSports Writer
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    45,249

    Default

    I don't believe they will sign Sanchez unless he is still out there late and Illitch decides to go on one of his January spending sprees.
    Last edited by tiger337; 11-14-2012 at 04:49 PM.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  4. #4
    T&P_Fan's Avatar
    T&P_Fan is online now MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    By the Big Lake
    Posts
    21,624
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I think Sanchez returns. He is the best option to make the Tigers a better team. I think he stays in motown.

  5. #5
    tiger337's Avatar
    tiger337 is offline MotownSports Writer
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    45,249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    I think Sanchez returns. He is the best option to make the Tigers a better team. I think he stays in motown.
    He would make 30 teams better though and he's going to be ridiculously expensive.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  6. #6
    john doe's Avatar
    john doe is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Shangri la in the Summer, Timbuktu in the Winter
    Posts
    2,780

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    He would make 30 teams better though and he's going to be ridiculously expensive.
    This: Big +1
    It's pronounced Canada, and no, I haven't.

  7. #7
    clemma is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    24

    Default

    I really doubt that Sanchez will be back, nor should he be for 6 years. That's a ridiculous amount of years for any pitcher not named Verlander, Price, Kershaw or Sabathia.

    Go get Marcum for a fraction of the price and years and watch him up put up comparable (or better) numbers as Sanchez.

  8. #8
    Detroit Rock City's Avatar
    Detroit Rock City is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio
    Posts
    2,310

    Default

    I think they will keep him since he pitched so well in the postseason and Illitch has a lot more money to throw around this offseason after making a deep playoff run and the Red Wings aren't playing. He might overpay for him but he will try like hell to keep him and he is the best option for this team to solidify the rotation.
    2014 AAT: 1B Mike Hessman

  9. #9
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Valencia, CA
    Posts
    15,356

    Default

    Teams we can be pretty certain are out of the Sanchez bidding now: marlins and jays. Boston appears to be the favorite in my opinion.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight; my goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. -- Psalm 144:1-2

  10. #10
    irvink's Avatar
    irvink is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,660

    Default

    Based on Knobler's Hunter signing story - as soon as the deal was done Illitch asked where they were at with Sanchez - I think there is a real shot that the Tigers sign him. 50-50 chance, let's say. If not, I don't see them bringing in another SP, unless a real bargain emerges.

    Porcello and Smyly are good enough to win the division. If it becomes obvious they need to add another arm for the stretch/playoff run, it's something they can address in July, as they did with Fister and Sanchez.

  11. #11
    C03BRA's Avatar
    C03BRA is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Teams we can be pretty certain are out of the Sanchez bidding now: marlins and jays. Boston appears to be the favorite in my opinion.
    Dodgers should be out as well. They currently have 7 starters assuming Lilly is healthy
    2011 AAT: Chance Ruffin, RP

  12. #12
    tiger337's Avatar
    tiger337 is offline MotownSports Writer
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    45,249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by irvink View Post
    Based on Knobler's Hunter signing story - as soon as the deal was done Illitch asked where they were at with Sanchez - I think there is a real shot that the Tigers sign him. 50-50 chance, let's say. If not, I don't see them bringing in another SP, unless a real bargain emerges.
    I just read that now. Sounds like Illitch might be willing to bump the payroll some more and they might actually have a decent chance to sign him. Not sure that's a good idea though. Signing a less than elite pitcher (especially one with a shoulder injury history) long-term is generally not a great idea.
    Last edited by tiger337; 11-14-2012 at 10:34 PM.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  13. #13
    DTroppens's Avatar
    DTroppens is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Fenton, MI
    Posts
    37,370

    Default

    I am not keen on the Tigers giving him an extended contract worth massive money. If you can sign him for three years at a reasonable rate, you get him. But that's not going to happen, so I'd move on.
    "Only Lions fans can predict a victory when their starting quarterback has a broken arm." -unknown

    "I'm going to go the Pistons' game tonight and watch Sheed jack up threes." -unknown

  14. #14
    Shelton's Avatar
    Shelton is online now MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ann Arbor
    Posts
    23,790

    Default

    I don't care anymore. I want all of the players.

    If we suck in three years I will survive.
    AAT: Ian Kinsler

  15. #15
    Nolan's Avatar
    Nolan is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Fee Hall, East Lansing
    Posts
    1,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelton View Post
    I don't care anymore. I want all of the players.

    If we suck in three years I will survive.
    +1
    "Thirty for me, that's yesterday," Valverde said. "It doesn't matter how many saves I have right now. The goal right now is the Tigers in first place, try to win every day, go to the playoffs and win everything."

  16. #16
    tiger337's Avatar
    tiger337 is offline MotownSports Writer
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    45,249

    Default

    OMG, they've become the Yankees!
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  17. #17
    Eric Cioe's Avatar
    Eric Cioe is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    20,925

    Default

    I like Sanchez but I don't care if they don't sign him again.
    "I can't say I'm pleased to see you and warn you I may have to do something about it." Knut Hamsun

  18. #18
    Antrat's Avatar
    Antrat is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    peeking in your window
    Posts
    23,893

    Default

    I think the Royals will overpay big time for him.
    AAT Joe Nathan
    Tigers-Cardinals 2014 WS. Book it.
    "The escalator isn't out of order. It's just temporarily stairs."

  19. #19
    djhutch's Avatar
    djhutch is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Midland, MI
    Posts
    22,445
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    If it were me, I would offer him 3 years with a mutual option for a 4th. The money is ridiculous for all these players, so I'd look to limit the amount of years. Anything more ... bye-bye.
    2014 AAT:Daniel Fields All-Time AAT: Charlie Maxwell
    If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball & saving an infant’s life, she'll choose to save the infant without even considering if there are men on base. ~ Dave Barry

  20. #20
    Gehringer_2's Avatar
    Gehringer_2 is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Tiger country
    Posts
    24,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    I like Sanchez but I don't care if they don't sign him again.
    Does this mean that you expect we will see a better Porcello in '13?
    'No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

    2014 AAT: Willy Adames
    2013 AAT: Javier Betancourt

  21. #21
    qsilvr2531's Avatar
    qsilvr2531 is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,191

    Default

    I'd prefer we keep as many reasonable starters as possible, so if we sign Sanchez I'd like to keep both Porcello and Smyly. Let them battle it out for 5th starter/swing man with the understanding that someone is going to get hurt/miss starts and both will get plenty of opportunities this year.

    If we don't sign Sanchez I'd like to see them sign a veteran or inning eater to give them more flexibility. I'd like them to get Brandon McCarthy as well but that has little to do with his expected performance and is mostly based on the fact that I follow him on twitter and think he's funny.
    Slowsilver: They did a study at Baseball Prospectus and found out that bionic parts increase WARP23 by 6.7% on average. Back in the steroid era, steroids only increased WARP23 by 4.6%

  22. #22
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Valencia, CA
    Posts
    15,356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antrat View Post
    I think the Royals will overpay big time for him.
    After they traded for Santana, that would be a surprise.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight; my goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. -- Psalm 144:1-2

  23. #23
    Nastradamus is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    8,666

    Default

    MLBTR says the Royals have room for another multi year deal, backloaded. THey mention a Guthrie type though. Doubt they are in on Sanchez. I think whatever AL West team loses out on Greinke may go after him and maybe the Red Sox. There's always the chance of a sleeper team as well.

  24. #24
    Tim Mitchell is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ridgefield,WA
    Posts
    1,308

    Default

    Too many teams in on Sanchez for me.
    I think we have already dissed him.
    I say we sign Cody Ross.
    We can with with this roster.

  25. #25
    Nastradamus is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    8,666

    Default

    I don't get why people want Ross. How much of an upgrade would he be from Dirks? He's not going to sign here to platoon and I wouldn't want to pay him 6-8 mil to platoon anyways.

  26. #26
    C03BRA's Avatar
    C03BRA is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    After they traded for Santana, that would be a surprise.
    I agree, KC usually has around a $60M payroll...Can't see them putting half that in 2 starting pitchers. However the extra $25M from the new tv contract could help
    2011 AAT: Chance Ruffin, RP

  27. #27
    Yoda's Avatar
    Yoda is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    57,460
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mitchell View Post
    Too many teams in on Sanchez for me.
    I think we have already dissed him.
    I say we sign Cody Ross.
    We can with with this roster.
    How in the world have the Tigers dissed him? DD said early on that they want to bring him back.
    Up above, aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home.
    Facebook

  28. #28
    Casimir is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    NW OH
    Posts
    11,632

    Default

    I have a hunch he will not be a Tiger, which would make him an opponent, so I hope the plan is that the Tigers clobber him when they face him.

  29. #29
    DaYooperASBDT's Avatar
    DaYooperASBDT is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    WHAT-IFS-VILLE
    Posts
    53,681
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Show Sanchez the money - that man can pitch.

    Porcello can be moved to the bullpen or traded.
    2014 Adopt A Tiger: Casey Crosby
    These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... Morons.
    VT

  30. #30
    john doe's Avatar
    john doe is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Shangri la in the Summer, Timbuktu in the Winter
    Posts
    2,780

    Default

    I will call D.D. tomorrow and inform him what my plan for Sanchez is.
    It's pronounced Canada, and no, I haven't.

  31. #31
    DaYooperASBDT's Avatar
    DaYooperASBDT is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    WHAT-IFS-VILLE
    Posts
    53,681
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    The Tigers jumped on signing Hunter, when they could have had Melky for $5 million less.
    Illitch is clearly going all in, and will pursue Sanchez, book that one.
    2014 Adopt A Tiger: Casey Crosby
    These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... Morons.
    VT

  32. #32
    Imminent Threat's Avatar
    Imminent Threat is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Sheridan, Michigan
    Posts
    1,341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mitchell View Post
    Too many teams in on Sanchez for me.
    I think we have already dissed him.
    I say we sign Cody Ross.
    We can with with this roster.

    Tim you used waaaaaaaay too many syllables for a haiku, and too many lines. Try again...unless you are serious...:)
    AAT 11' Victor Martinez
    AAL 10' Jim Schwartz

  33. #33
    Scottwood's Avatar
    Scottwood is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,940
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    I hadn't realized this before, but Sanchez gained an entire MPH on his fastball in his time with the Tigers compared to with the Marlins. We also changed his pitch usage, dropping his usage of the fastball by about 7% and upping the usage of his slider and curveball. It's also striking how much better a pitcher he has become the last 2 years compared to earlier in his career. He used to struggle with walks and now he's turned himself into one of the better strike throwers in the league, while maintaining his K% and GB%. If the consensus is that he might continue on this upward trajectory, then he's going to be very hard to keep because he's already very good and there are a lot of pitch starved teams out there.

    I think it will be very interesting the next few years to watch how the careers of Fister, Scherzer and Sanchez develop- even better if they are all Tigers the next year or two before the roster and salary crunch comes into play.
    Dreaming about a repeat of 1984, 1968, 1945 and 1935

  34. #34
    Sports_Freak's Avatar
    Sports_Freak is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    6,164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaYooperASBDT View Post
    Show Sanchez the money - that man can pitch.

    Porcello can be moved to the bullpen or traded.
    Yes, he showed what he could do once he got comfortable here in Detroit.
    It seems like he would want to pitch here, even if it were for a little less money.
    A team that should be a major contender, a very good offense and a stable organization.
    Our IF defense may make us less desirable though, I see that as the only downside.

    But talk about years and money. What would it take to sign him? Does he want a crazy number of years at 20+ million a year?
    If so, I would let him walk and see if he could get it from another team. Boston has a bunch of money to spend but is it worth it to play on a team that's so dysfunctional?

    The contract he gets, along with future SP, is going to affect Verlander's worth when his contract is up. That's assuming JV keeps putting up the numbers that he has for the last couple of years.
    Verlander should be the highest paid pitcher on the Tigers (or in MLB) and if somehow we give Sanchez a contract that means more money per year than Justin, I would give JV a raise to ensure he's the highest paid Tiger pitcher.

    I wonder if anything is in the works to extend JV and Miggy?
    Last edited by Sports_Freak; 11-16-2012 at 07:28 PM.
    2014 AAT: Brennan Smith
    2013 AAT: Brennan Smith
    2012 AAT: Brennan Smith
    2010 AAT: Armando Galarraga

  35. #35
    Sports_Freak's Avatar
    Sports_Freak is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    6,164

    Default

    I wonder how much it would take to get Zack Greinke?
    Ryan Dempster?
    I've read rumors Sanchez wants 6 years/90 Million.
    May be too much, 15 million per?

    But Bleacher Reports says this;

    "Sanchez is apparently seeking a six-year, $90 million contract based in part on his performance during the postseason for the Detroit Tigers."

    MLB Trade, Free-Agent Rumors: Ranking Top 50 Rumors from Least to Most Probable | Bleacher Report

    And they say Detroit is going to go after him;

    "The Tigers certainly know what they have in Anibal Sanchez. He posted a 2.43 ERA in his final six regular-season starts and followed up with a sterling 1.77 ERA in three postseason appearances.

    The Tigers' goal of winning a World Series for owner Mike Ilitch is the priority. Sanchez certainly showed he has the ability to come up big at the right time. I see this as almost a done deal."

    MLB Trade, Free-Agent Rumors: Ranking Top 50 Rumors from Least to Most Probable | Bleacher Report
    2014 AAT: Brennan Smith
    2013 AAT: Brennan Smith
    2012 AAT: Brennan Smith
    2010 AAT: Armando Galarraga

  36. #36
    Corky's Avatar
    Corky is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Liberty Lake, WA
    Posts
    32,381
    Blog Entries
    31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john doe View Post
    I will call D.D. tomorrow and inform him what my plan for Sanchez is.
    Did your eyes meet?
    2014 AAT - Phil Coke


    I was thrown out of N.Y.U. my freshman year for cheating on my metaphysics final, you know. I looked within the soul of the boy sitting next to me. - Alvy Singer

  37. #37
    mmmccall is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Examining the key market forces at play this offseason - MLB - ESPN

    Olney mentions in this article that Sanchez has asked the Tigers for a deal in the 100 million range. Yikes

  38. #38
    STLTiger69 is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    2,086

    Default

    Some of this slow process might be letting Sanchez and his agent get offers from other teams to see what his going price "really" is before the Tigers decide to give him his money. What bugs me is if Sanchez if a #4 starter making $15M per year, what should Fister or Scherzer be thinking of a few years down the road? It's still early in the process but I am starting to think looking for another pitcher not named Sanchez or just sticking with Porcello and Smyly might be the better option.
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  39. #39
    ben9753's Avatar
    ben9753 is online now MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Sanchez has the ability to pitch like a solid #2. He showed that down the stretch.

  40. #40
    Yoda's Avatar
    Yoda is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    57,460
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Some of this slow process might be letting Sanchez and his agent get offers from other teams to see what his going price "really" is before the Tigers decide to give him his money. What bugs me is if Sanchez if a #4 starter making $15M per year, what should Fister or Scherzer be thinking of a few years down the road? It's still early in the process but I am starting to think looking for another pitcher not named Sanchez or just sticking with Porcello and Smyly might be the better option.
    He isn't a "4th starter"... He, Scherzer and Fister are all pretty much on the same level, just below Verlander. How they actually set up the rotation doesn't affect their value, or at least it shouldn't.

    A few years down the road the other two will want to be paid what they're worth. A Sanchez deal probably isn't going to change that.
    Up above, aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home.
    Facebook

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Anibal Sanchez Throws No-Hitter
    By zachcadillac in forum Major League Baseball
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 09-07-2006, 08:15 AM
  2. Anibal Sanchez No Hitter
    By DaYooperASBDT in forum Major League Baseball
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-06-2006, 09:21 PM
  3. Different take on Sanchez
    By Motor City Sonics in forum Detroit Tigers
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 06-03-2004, 07:47 AM
  4. BB for Sanchez?
    By TigerPride in forum Detroit Tigers
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-11-2004, 04:22 PM
  5. Sanchez
    By crossjb in forum Detroit Tigers
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 04-10-2004, 11:27 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •