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  1. #41
    STLTiger69 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    He isn't a "4th starter"... He, Scherzer and Fister are all pretty much on the same level, just below Verlander. How they actually set up the rotation doesn't affect their value, or at least it shouldn't.

    A few years down the road the other two will want to be paid what they're worth. A Sanchez deal probably isn't going to change that.
    Both Scherzer and Verlander can be free agents at the end of 2014 season. Porcello and Fister are not elgible to be free agents until the end of the 2015 season. So your right, they will all find out soon enough what they are worth....
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  2. #42
    Sven Draconian is offline MotownSports Fan
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    I worry about signing Sanchez to a big deal (lets say anything in the 5 year, 60 million dollar range...and up). Obviously he would be a tremendous boost for the short term, but we already have 3 expensive pieces in place (Fielder and the inevitable extensions for Verlander and Miggy).

    Coupled with that Avila, Jackson, Scherzer and Fister are all going to pricey.

    We can't expect much from our minor league systems, we might produce one "starter" out of the lot. With holes opening up at 3B/SS/2B/RF/LF in that time frame... and the bullpen... something has to give. I would much rather we reduce the risk and sign a 2 solid contributors for 8 million per year and live with an "iffy" 5th starter than set the rotation and leave gaping holes in our lineup for years to come.

    Keep in mind, assuming we re-sign Miggy and Verlander in the 25 million per year range we would be looking at having 4 long-term contracts worth a combined 90 million dollars per year... for what will be by that point declining production on aging players. eeks.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
    I hadn't realized this before, but Sanchez gained an entire MPH on his fastball in his time with the Tigers compared to with the Marlins. We also changed his pitch usage, dropping his usage of the fastball by about 7% and upping the usage of his slider and curveball. It's also striking how much better a pitcher he has become the last 2 years compared to earlier in his career. He used to struggle with walks and now he's turned himself into one of the better strike throwers in the league, while maintaining his K% and GB%. If the consensus is that he might continue on this upward trajectory, then he's going to be very hard to keep because he's already very good and there are a lot of pitch starved teams out there.

    I think it will be very interesting the next few years to watch how the careers of Fister, Scherzer and Sanchez develop- even better if they are all Tigers the next year or two before the roster and salary crunch comes into play.
    Helping guys reach their maximum velocity potential seems to be Jeff Jones' calling card (which BTW - made Valverde's FB loss all that much more confirming of his toastedness).
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  4. #44
    roarintiger1 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    If DD truely wants Sanchez, he will sign him.

  5. #45
    Nastradamus is offline MotownSports Fan
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    I've heard some whispers that we are going to let him walk, bbut who knows.

  6. #46
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    I don't mind letting him walk. I hope they go after Brandon McCarthy on a two year, $20m type deal. That solidifies the rotation for a lot less and hopefully doesn't get in the way of a Verlander or Cabrera extension.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    I don't mind letting him walk. I hope they go after Brandon McCarthy on a two year, $20m type deal. That solidifies the rotation for a lot less and hopefully doesn't get in the way of a Verlander or Cabrera extension.
    I think this seems like a reasonable plan. McCarthy looked good until the unfortunate injury ended his season.

  8. #48
    Nastradamus is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    I don't mind letting him walk. I hope they go after Brandon McCarthy on a two year, $20m type deal. That solidifies the rotation for a lot less and hopefully doesn't get in the way of a Verlander or Cabrera extension.
    Nothing will get in the way of those. Not another player's extension at least. I do worry about Sanchez messing up a Scherzer extension though.

  9. #49
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    On MLB TV last night they said that the market expects him to resign with Detroit.
    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROMAD1 View Post
    On MLB TV last night they said that the market expects him to resign with Detroit.
    I would be ecstatic.

    It would be interesting to see if they would offer a package of Peralta/Porcello/Castellanos for Justin Upton. I am terrible with trying to think of trades, so I don't know if that would be laughed at by Arizona or Detroit would be crazy to offer it.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmwatkin View Post
    I would be ecstatic.

    It would be interesting to see if they would offer a package of Peralta/Porcello/Castellanos for Justin Upton. I am terrible with trying to think of trades, so I don't know if that would be laughed at by Arizona or Detroit would be crazy to offer it.
    Without being to obvious, it really staggers to think of that possibility. This lineup will be a LOT different from a team that went to the WS if they do trade Peralta and sign Drew and get Upton. Speed all over and a lot of power. Too RH, perhaps? [oops...drew is a LH batter]
    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

  12. #52
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    I had hoped the Tigers would sign McCarthy a couple years ago when he would have been inexpensive, but they went with Penny instead. But now I'd be very leery at a larger cost. The fluke injury aside last season, he's never been durable and was on the shelf twice in '12 with shoulder issues.

    The FA SP who seems to be flying under the radar again is Edwin Jackson and I wouldn't mind seeing him back on the Tigers at all. If they could strike fast using Guthrie's deal (3/24) as a starting benchmark (say something like 3/27 or 3/30), I think he'd provide a solid 200 innings per year. But if Boras is still his agent, I suppose he'd rather wait until guys like Greinke and Sanchez are off the board to increase Jackson's appeal. That didn't work last year, though, and he had to settle for a 1-year deal. The security of 3 years at $9 million or so per year from a contender might look good to him and IMO he'd be a nice alternative to Sanchez on a much more reasonable contract.

  13. #53
    Nastradamus is offline MotownSports Fan
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    I'd love to sign Jackson as well. He's not all that different from Sanchez and you could probably get him for 4/40, max, instead of 5/75 - 6/100

  14. #54
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    Am I the only one here who wouldn't trade Castellanos for Upton?
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    I'd love to sign Jackson as well. He's not all that different from Sanchez and you could probably get him for 4/40, max, instead of 5/75 - 6/100
    My preferences in order

    1) Sign Sanchez for 4 yrs $56 mil - not going to happen so go to #2
    2) Sign E. Jackson or Haren for around $3 yrs $30 mil - don't know how likely this is to happen
    3) Go with Porcello & Smyly.

    If #1 or #2 happens, I would see what I could get for Porcello in trade. I'd much rather go up to $12 per year for Jackson or Haren than go $15 mil for anything over 4 years for Sanchez. Thus, if I were GM it would be extremely unlikely we would keep Sanchez.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by catswithbats View Post
    Am I the only one here who wouldn't trade Castellanos for Upton?
    I don't know if you are the only one, but I would definitely be open to trading Castellanos for Upton. What I wouldn't do is trade Castellanos, Garcia, and Smyly for Upton.
    Micah 7:7

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by catswithbats View Post
    Am I the only one here who wouldn't trade Castellanos for Upton?
    I am sure you aren't the only one. I don't have a problem with people hesitant to trade Castellanos+ for Upton. I have a problem with people thinking that DD can offer a package for Upton without him.

  18. #58
    Nastradamus is offline MotownSports Fan
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    I think we could get Upton without him. I probably wouldn't trade Castellanos for him straight up. I feel like we could get someone of similar value by just spending the 13 mil per year on the open market. His brother or a trade for Soriano being the first two options that come to mind. Shoot, a Granderson trade would be better too for that matter.

  19. #59
    Hart is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    I think we could get Upton without him. I probably wouldn't trade Castellanos for him straight up. I feel like we could get someone of similar value by just spending the 13 mil per year on the open market. His brother or a trade for Soriano being the first two options that come to mind. Shoot, a Granderson trade would be better too for that matter.
    It sounds like you value Upton based on his career averages, which is about 25 home runs, 80 RBI, and a .280 average each year. I don't think this is how Arizona's GM values him. I think they value Upton something closer to what they feel his upside is, which is a 30+ home run guy with 100+ RBI's on an annual basis, and a pretty good average with it.

  20. #60
    Nastradamus is offline MotownSports Fan
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    and that's why I wouldn't deal with them.

  21. #61
    STLTiger69 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hart View Post
    It sounds like you value Upton based on his career averages, which is about 25 home runs, 80 RBI, and a .280 average each year. I don't think this is how Arizona's GM values him. I think they value Upton something closer to what they feel his upside is, which is a 30+ home run guy with 100+ RBI's on an annual basis, and a pretty good average with it.
    And you can see how many other teams so far are willing to part with enough talent to obtain Arizona's view of Justin Upton as a +30HR, 100+RBI with a pretty good average too ballplayer. - I mean he was available at the trade deadline and it's November and he's still on the "sale" shelf...

    My thought, Why doesn't every other team just decide to let Arizona keep Upton for one more year and see if he performs at (or near!) his "upside" or BELOW his "career average" like he did in 2012. Upton made $6.75M for 2012 and is scheduled to make $14.25M for 2014, so lets see if the 2013 Upton is worth closer to $6.75M or $14.25M....
    Last edited by STLTiger69; 11-21-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Why doesn't every other team just decide to let Arizona keep Upton for one more year and see if he performs at (or near!) his "upside"
    Because then he probably won't be available at all. It's not often a player of his talent, age and experience is obtainable for a reasonable price. The thought that he has upside remaining is legit and a big reason why he's attractive. Look at McCutchen's growth in 2012; he's always been good, but he wasn't wildly great until this year. Bruce is another guy who has been decent so far but has the ability to explode in the near future. I put Upton in the same category - he can be MVP-good, and even if he falls short, he's still a solid 2-way player.

  23. #63
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    Sanchez? Gone!
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