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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    I don't believe in line-up protection per se, but I do believe that when you string together a number of hitters that all force a pitcher to try to raise his level and where the pitcher doesn't see any break from the pressure, then all will probably benefit.
    That could be true and I think it's a reason why modern day pitchers can't go as many innings. There is so much good power hitting now that they can not relax the way they could back in the 60s or 70s.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  2. #122
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    Excited about Hunter. This team should be AWESOME next year. I remember when he was with Minnesota in 2006 and he sent the Royals a case of champagne after sweeping Detroit and having Detroit take the WC and Minnesota the division on the last day of the season. 7 seasons and two AL Pennants later, the Tigers are still as contending a team as any, and Hunter thinks theres no better place to win a ring than Motown.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    Lineup protection is the same myth in 2013 that it was in 1860.
    It did seem JL went with a lot of line-ups last year that featured RH, LH, RH.....and so on.

    Bat VMart in the 2 hole and Hunter at #5? Anyway he does it, JL is going to have some awesome lineup options next season.
    2014 AAT: Brennan Smith
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  4. #124
    Tim Mitchell is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Now we are talking with Cody Ross.
    Get your tickets now boys...before theyre gone.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
    I got them at around $140M right now. If they do sign Sanchez for $12M to $13M, then I could see a trade around Porcello and Peralta for a young, cheap, fast, defensive SS. Those two together will make $10M+ next year and it will be a way to not only cut salary but also improve the club depending, of course, on the SS they get in return. It could be a minor league guy ready for the big leagues a la the Austin Jackson move. Then, they add minor league starting pitch depth in case of injuries, another bullpen arm for a few million and maybe another RH OF to platoon with Dirks.

    Given the increased wealth of the Illitch family the past few years and the thirst for a title, maybe they do push the upper limit to $150M for 2013.
    Love this idea.

  6. #126
    will the thrill is offline MotownSports Fan
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    I think DD just uses the theory that it's better to overpay 25% and get the guy you want before other teams get involved, same way with Victor 2 years ago
    Put me on record. Prince Fielder will still OPS 850+ in years 7-8-9 of this contract. (sucks that my signature has to stay this for 7 years now)

  7. #127
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  8. #128
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    I like it...

    Resign Sanchez, sign Ryan Madson, and trade Porcello+ for future SS and this will be a hell of a successful offseason.

  9. #129
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    I've always found it odd that lineup protection is so often talked about and, yet, people rarely discuss the impact that coming to the plate with runners on base has on the batter (and pitcher). One is statistically proven; the other is speculation and doesn't make much sense to me except in rare instances.
    Last edited by Scottwood; 11-14-2012 at 06:53 PM.
    Dreaming about a repeat of 1984, 1968, 1945 and 1935

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem View Post
    Just seeing his name makes me miserable knowing that I'll have to listen to him slobber about Torii all season.
    At least Tori is a reasonably good ballplayer. Unlike elmon and Q and CMo.
    “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” John 16:33 NIV84

  11. #131
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    I can already see that Hunter is going to be the new Raburn when it comes to misspellings.
    2014 AAT: Drew VerHagen

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by will the thrill View Post
    I think DD just uses the theory that it's better to overpay 25% and get the guy you want before other teams get involved, same way with Victor 2 years ago
    This goes back to Vina and Rondell White. He always sets the market and moves fast.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight; my goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. -- Psalm 144:1-2

  13. #133
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by redshark63 View Post
    I can already see that Hunter is going to be the new Raburn when it comes to misspellings.
    It does seem like a difficult name to spell.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight; my goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. -- Psalm 144:1-2

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by redshark63 View Post
    I can already see that Hunter is going to be the new Raburn when it comes to misspellings.
    Torre Hunter
    Lee Panas
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Torre Hunter
    Can I nickname him "Joe"?
    2014 AAT: Drew VerHagen

  16. #136
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by roarintiger1 View Post
    Hunter may very well hit over .300 again batting in front of Miguel......
    Well that certainly worked for Boesch. And Berry. And Infante.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight; my goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. -- Psalm 144:1-2

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by redshark63 View Post
    I can already see that Hunter is going to be the new Raburn when it comes to misspellings.
    Rockbean wasn't hard to spel
    2014 AAT - Phil Coke


    I was thrown out of N.Y.U. my freshman year for cheating on my metaphysics final, you know. I looked within the soul of the boy sitting next to me. - Alvy Singer

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky View Post
    Rockbean wasn't hard to spel
    And who else had a gov't building named after him before he was even born.
    2014 AAT: Drew VerHagen

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Well that certainly worked for Boesch. And Berry. And Infante.
    The difference is, Hunter is a major league hitter..........

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4hzglory View Post
    For only 2 years, with the defense he provides, even if he OPS's .750, I'm very happy with this deal. No big $ tied up for when Miggy or JV is a FA (like Hamilton would) and gives time for Garcia and Castellanos to not be rushed (assuming they aren't traded in the next year) $13 mil per is more than I would like to pay, but I don't see this contract preventing us from making any moves we would otherwise make.
    This is everything that I was going to say,and now I don't have to. Good pick up, a little pricey, but the Tigers a better team today than they were yesterday.

  21. #141
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    It's nice to see an upgrade that happens without much delay that makes sense within our context.
    "If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster."--Clint Eastwood

    2014 Adopt A Tiger: Aníbal Sánchez, RSP

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
    I've always found it odd that lineup protection is so often talked about and, yet, people rarely discuss the impact that coming to the plate with runners on base has on the batter (and pitcher). One is statistically proven; the other is speculation and doesn't make much sense to me except in rare instances.
    Excellent point.
    A physicist, a chemist, and an economist were stranded on an island with no implements and a can of food. The physicist and the chemist each devised an ingenious mechanism for getting the can open; the economist merely said, "Assume we have a can opener"!

  23. #143
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    It's a good signing. I wanted a bigger move, like either of the Uptons, Hamilton, etc. But Hunter also makes sense. I expected him to get 2 years and between 22 and 24 million, so I'm not going to complain about an extra $2MM. Of course, we are not done yet. If we spend extra money on another position because of this, I will still be satisfied.
    A physicist, a chemist, and an economist were stranded on an island with no implements and a can of food. The physicist and the chemist each devised an ingenious mechanism for getting the can open; the economist merely said, "Assume we have a can opener"!

  24. #144
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    Also, someone else mentioned that Hunter may be a good mentor for Fielder. I agree, and think this team does need some more veteran leadership. There were many times this season where I think Fielder showed a lack of focus, and a few where he showed a poor attitude. I still am a fan of the Fielder signing, but I think he could benefit from some clubhouse leadership.
    A physicist, a chemist, and an economist were stranded on an island with no implements and a can of food. The physicist and the chemist each devised an ingenious mechanism for getting the can open; the economist merely said, "Assume we have a can opener"!

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    It does seem like a difficult name to spell.
    Pretty easy really, it's Torrrriiii.

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandma g View Post
    I really thought Pitching would be # 1 on his list. . . grrrr...
    did you watch the playoffs?
    2003 Tigers = 2010 Tigers
    2012 AAT: Josue Carreno 0-2, 3.30 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 2.4 BB/9, 7.8 K/9

  27. #147
    NeedMoreLike84 is offline Released
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vonlenska View Post
    did you watch the playoffs?
    Exactly.

  28. #148
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    A general google search reveals that Hunter talked about how he changed his swing last season. It was just general player speak ("shortening the swing"), but given the documented changes in GB% and LD% and reduction in infield fly ball % last year and given that his Iso power numbers were dipping in 2010 and 2011 below career averages, it would seem that he and the Angels staff likely made conscious decisions to tweak his swing and approach to offset his power decline. It will be interesting to see if this approach continues into next season with a different team.
    Dreaming about a repeat of 1984, 1968, 1945 and 1935

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    It's a good signing. I wanted a bigger move, like either of the Uptons, Hamilton, etc. But Hunter also makes sense. I expected him to get 2 years and between 22 and 24 million, so I'm not going to complain about an extra $2MM. Of course, we are not done yet. If we spend extra money on another position because of this, I will still be satisfied.
    I'll make a bet; Hunter has two comparable seasons to Upton overall, if you combine (a) overall fielding with (b) hitting on the road (in order to cancel out ballpark effects, especially if Upton should sign with another team that has a launching-pad for a home park).
    Introibo ad altare Dei

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  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
    A general google search reveals that Hunter talked about how he changed his swing last season. It was just general player speak ("shortening the swing"), but given the documented changes in GB% and LD% and reduction in infield fly ball % last year and given that his Iso power numbers were dipping in 2010 and 2011 below career averages, it would seem that he and the Angels staff likely made conscious decisions to tweak his swing and approach to offset his power decline. It will be interesting to see if this approach continues into next season with a different team.
    It's also interesting that his HR/FB% was still quite good (16%), and smack-dab on his career average of 15.8%, which he has been very consistent at hitting over his career...so while his overall power declined, he still was effective in those instances where he elevated the ball.

    Also, it's pretty unusual that a guy is so rock-steady on HR/FB%.....that seems to undulate naturally with most hitters, and also seems to be impacted by changes in FB/GB%. I would hypothesize that his HR/FB% is a sign of his general hitting health....as long as it stays in the 13 - 17% range, he'll be at least a marginally effective hitter overall...with a "floor" of a .760 OPS/.330 wOBA and a pretty good chance, even at his age, of delivering his career averages of .800/.345.

    Mark my words, though....the whiners out there, even those who say they like the deal (who are probably focusing on his BABIP-inflated numbers from 2012), will complain bitterly about his groundball outs and double-plays by mid-season....even if he has a decent/good season overall.
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  31. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
    A general google search reveals that Hunter talked about how he changed his swing last season. It was just general player speak ("shortening the swing"), but given the documented changes in GB% and LD% and reduction in infield fly ball % last year and given that his Iso power numbers were dipping in 2010 and 2011 below career averages, it would seem that he and the Angels staff likely made conscious decisions to tweak his swing and approach to offset his power decline. It will be interesting to see if this approach continues into next season with a different team.
    The one thing that doesn't explain is the increase in strikeouts. Wouldn't a shortened swing result in fewer strikeouts?
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  32. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    The one thing that doesn't explain is the increase in strikeouts. Wouldn't a shortened swing result in fewer strikeouts?
    Yeah, if there's one stat that worries me, it's the increase in the k-rate.
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  33. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    The one thing that doesn't explain is the increase in strikeouts. Wouldn't a shortened swing result in fewer strikeouts?
    Is there a way to find the % of swinging strikes vs strikes taken?

  34. #154
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    I think in Keith Law's free agent value write up, he talked about that Hunters new approach was swinging at a lot more pitches early in the count than previously throughout his career. This is what led to the higher strikeout rate I believe. I also believe that said approach will probably not change in Detroit.

  35. #155
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    I like this signing. Look forward to watching Hunntor in right.

  36. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Liston View Post
    Pretty easy really, it's Torrrriiii.
    I was talking about Huntar.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight; my goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. -- Psalm 144:1-2

  37. #157
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    I don't have anything to add to the conversation but this - I'm really shocked that this thread isn't at least 350-something posts by now instead of just 150-something. Maybe my memory is off, but it seemed in the past much less player movements had way more posts than this one.

    I'll have to check it out later.
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  38. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Where did Boesch, Raburn, Young and Berry end up on that list?

    Wow, even when I agree 100% with you on the conclusion, your arguments make me want to disagree with you.

    Rob
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  39. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTroppens View Post
    I don't have anything to add to the conversation but this - I'm really shocked that this thread isn't at least 350-something posts by now instead of just 150-something. Maybe my memory is off, but it seemed in the past much less player movements had way more posts than this one.

    I'll have to check it out later.
    Cody Ross wasn't involved.


    Yet.

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  40. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTroppens View Post
    I don't have anything to add to the conversation but this - I'm really shocked that this thread isn't at least 350-something posts by now instead of just 150-something. Maybe my memory is off, but it seemed in the past much less player movements had way more posts than this one.

    I'll have to check it out later.
    Pretty easy IMO...the internet is most popular for complaining and moaning....there is not a lot to complain and moan about over this deal.

    If we had to trade away a piece or 2 to get him...this thread would be 500 posts by now.

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