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  1. #81
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    Overpaid but it's Illitch and if we win a World Series it will be worth it. I approve.
    2012 AL Champs

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    Edwin Jackson and Ian Kennedy were traded for Scherzer and Schlereth. Edwin was not part of the bounty that acquired Austin Jackson. That would be Curtis Granderson.
    Yes, you are correct. I often mistake this as one 3 team trade rather than 2 seperate 2 team deals.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    You're highly exaggerating the Tigers willingness to trade prospects. They knew they had to get a guy like Sanchez to make the playoffs last year with the problems they with their #5 starters. They were desperate then. They aren't right now.
    I think they still need a guy like Sanchez for next year. Porcello is inconsistent and smyly is unproven, and they could lead us into the same starting pitching concerns we had last season before we acquired Sanchez.

  4. #84
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    I had assumed that signing Hunter took us out from signing Sanchez. Based on the above tweet, perhaps I'm wrong and Illitch is fine with pushing the payroll in the $140 to $150 million range for 2013.
    Dreaming about a repeat of 1984, 1968, 1945 and 1935

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euphdude View Post
    I think they still need a guy like Sanchez for next year. Porcello is inconsistent and smyly is unproven, and they could lead us into the same starting pitching concerns we had last season before we acquired Sanchez.
    It wouldn't be too unreasonable to sign an arm to a one or two year deal, and just evalute how that is working out at midseason. Dombrowski is certainly one that is willing to make moves midseason. I like Smyly's future, I just worry a bit about him because he still is on the young side. He has still only thrown about 250 professional innings over two seasons.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    You're highly exaggerating the Tigers willingness to trade prospects. They knew they had to get a guy like Sanchez to make the playoffs last year with the problems they with their #5 starters. They were desperate then. They aren't right now.
    They didn't trade for a #5 starter. Like I said, we don't have to, we aren't guaranteed to, but it wouldn't surprise me either. I think its a reasonable possibility, if they find themselves in need of an acquisition mid-season or something.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
    I had assumed that signing Hunter took us out from signing Sanchez. Based on the above tweet, perhaps I'm wrong and Illitch is fine with pushing the payroll in the $140 to $150 million range for 2013.
    I show us at around $146M right now for this year compared to $134M for last year.
    Those numbers are without Sanchez or other possible signings. I can post my guesses
    if anyone is interested.
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  8. #88
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    This is a pretty good piece about how Torii came to Detroit...

    The tale of Torii the Tiger - CBSSports.com

  9. #89
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    Hunter may very well hit over .300 again batting in front of Miguel......

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by roarintiger1 View Post
    Hunter may very well hit over .300 again batting in front of Miguel......
    +1

    Yea, if you think Hunter will get some good pitches to hit because of Cabrera, Fielder and Martinez....
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by irvink View Post
    This is a pretty good piece about how Torii came to Detroit...

    The tale of Torii the Tiger - CBSSports.com
    Cool story. I love these types of stories, I always like to hear the process behind the relationship. Seems like Torii had Detroit on his mind the entire time, didn't even let other teams get in on the action.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    +1

    Yea, if you think Hunter will get some good pitches to hit because of Cabrera, Fielder and Martinez....
    Lineup protection is the same myth in 2013 that it was in 1860.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    Lineup protection is the same myth in 2013 that it was in 1860.
    Agreed 100%.
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  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by irvink View Post
    The start of what will undoubtedly be a regular on-air love affair...

    Rod Allen ‏@RodAllen12
    Torii is universally loved in our game!!! Tigers signed a quality individual today. I've known him for 20 yrs now. Oh Yeah he can ball too!!

    Just seeing his name makes me miserable knowing that I'll have to listen to him slobber about Torii all season.
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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Agreed 100%.
    Brennan Boesch agrees, too.

  16. #96
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    So does this acquisition make anyone think about Brian Bluhm since Torii Hunter was the last subject he posted about here?
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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    Lineup protection is the same myth in 2013 that it was in 1860.
    Somewhat agree with this. Even if I didn't, Hunter hit behind Trout and in front of Pujols last year...

  18. #98
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    AOTHER OUTFIELDER?? GOOD GRIEF! What about the PITCHING ?!? Come on DD ! Use your head. . .
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem View Post
    So does this acquisition make anyone think about Brian Bluhm since Torii Hunter was the last subject he posted about here?
    Wow.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandma g View Post
    AOTHER OUTFIELDER?? GOOD GRIEF! What about the PITCHING ?!? Come on DD ! Use your head. . .
    Great analysis.

    Stupid dumbrowski.

    But seriously, they badly needed a corner OFer that is above AAAA level.
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  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem View Post
    So does this acquisition make anyone think about Brian Bluhm since Torii Hunter was the last subject he posted about here?
    I didn't remember that it was.
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  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandma g View Post
    AOTHER OUTFIELDER?? GOOD GRIEF! What about the PITCHING ?!? Come on DD ! Use your head. . .
    We had the worst right field production in baseball last year if I remember correctly. Dumb Dombrowski...

    We aren't touching the rotation. It's either we sign Sanchez or roll with Porcello/Smyly as our 4/5. Bullpen guys can be found all over and can come very cheaply. you don't need to break the bank or go after big name guys.

    In fact, here's something:

    Tigers signed LHP Jose Alvarez to a minor league contract.

    Alvarez missed the entire 2012 season following surgery to repair a torn labrum in his throwing shoulder. The 23-year-old southpaw has a 3.62 ERA over seven seasons in the minors, averaging 7.1 K/9 and 2.3 BB/9.
    roto

    Looks like he was a starter but could be a bullpen guy. You just never know when you'll catch lightning in a bottle with guys.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem View Post
    So does this acquisition make anyone think about Brian Bluhm since Torii Hunter was the last subject he posted about here?
    yes, I actually thought about it last night. Not only was Hunter the last topic he talked about, but he said something about Hunter wanting to sign with another team. It was his last post.
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem View Post
    Just seeing his name makes me miserable knowing that I'll have to listen to him slobber about Torii all season.
    The media in general is going to slobber all over him all season. He's always been good, but also over rated. Allen will just take it to another level.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim pickens View Post
    because this could handcuff them from filling other needs
    If an accountant were running the team, possibly. The only time Illitch ever appeared "handcuffed" was after 2009, but even after trading away Grandy's contract, he went right out and spent the savings on Damon (then VMart) and Valverde. Heck, even with half of the VMart contract wasted, $6M sunk into Delmon Young, and a competitive payroll, Illitch went right out and spent a fortune on Fielder. Before 2009, when Illitch traded for and extended Cabrera and Willis, he already had a boatload of expensive and questionable deals on his books, but that didn't stop him.

    This is not an organization that allows itself to get handcuffed....overpay sometimes, sure, but failed contracts don't seem to slow them down for long if at all.

    The real question is whether Hunter will give $13M of performance on the field. He's capable of it....I agree that it seems a bit pricey for what he's likely to do, but I don't see any evidence to support the argument that this team gets handcuffed by its less-than-stellar deals.
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  26. #106
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    Rod will mention Hunter's gold gloves and say, "he's like a second CF" every single game.
    Dreaming about a repeat of 1984, 1968, 1945 and 1935

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    Edwin Jackson and Ian Kennedy were traded for Scherzer and Schlereth. Edwin was not part of the bounty that acquired Austin Jackson. That would be Curtis Granderson.
    I remember the good 'ol days when Benke would rip me to death for suggesting this.
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  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasfh View Post
    I agree with you, which is why I focus on the years. Two is the best we could have hoped for. Three and I would have made myself a little balder.
    I would have been thrilled with one year and mortified by three, two is pretty much the minimum I expect to get a quality player.
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  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigersSlappy View Post
    I show us at around $146M right now for this year compared to $134M for last year.
    Those numbers are without Sanchez or other possible signings. I can post my guesses
    if anyone is interested.
    I got them at around $140M right now. If they do sign Sanchez for $12M to $13M, then I could see a trade around Porcello and Peralta for a young, cheap, fast, defensive SS. Those two together will make $10M+ next year and it will be a way to not only cut salary but also improve the club depending, of course, on the SS they get in return. It could be a minor league guy ready for the big leagues a la the Austin Jackson move. Then, they add minor league starting pitch depth in case of injuries, another bullpen arm for a few million and maybe another RH OF to platoon with Dirks.

    Given the increased wealth of the Illitch family the past few years and the thirst for a title, maybe they do push the upper limit to $150M for 2013.
    Last edited by Scottwood; 11-14-2012 at 04:52 PM.
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  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim pickens View Post
    because this could handcuff them from filling other needs
    I would rather Illitch pay now and win 1 championship then deal with another 28 years of no championships.
    Nice to see a civilized baseball crowd. No idiots behind homeplate waving zoo animal puppets and garishly colored flags.(quote from "Antrat")

  31. #111
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    Now if we can just convince Josh Hamilton to take a one year 25 mil deal we will be in the WS again next year.

    lol
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  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    Lineup protection is the same myth in 2013 that it was in 1860.
    I hear this more and more and I just don't get it.

    If I'm a pitcher, and I see Miguel Cabrera in the on deck circle with guys on 1st and 3rd, I'm going to give the guy at the plate more hittable pitches, because I am not walking him to get to Cabrera with the bases loaded. If Brennan Boesch was in the on deck circle, no way is Hunter going to get the exact same pitch sequence as he would with Cabrera coming up next. There's absolutely no way in hell I am throwing Hunter a 3-1 fastball with Boesch on deck in that situation, but with Cabrera on deck, there's a much better chance I'd be forced to. I don't really see how anyone could disagree with that.

    The way Hunter is going to get pitched in that situation has a lot to do with who is on deck. The way you pitch talented hitters like Hunter, Cabrera, Fielder, etc depends a lot on who is batting behind them. That's what lineup protection is. And to say that it doesn't exist is baffling.
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  33. #113
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    The concept of line-up protection is not baffling. It just doesn't work as dramatically in practice as it seems like it should it theory. One year it seems to work, the next year it doesn't work so well. Pitchers are as smart as hitters. If a batter changes his approach, they'll generally figure it out and he'll regress back to his norm. Sure, there are probably some hitters who can exploit a new line-up position better than others, but it usually does not help that much.
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  34. #114
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    It just doesn't happen as much as people thing. For instance, in 2011, everyone said Cabrera would be pitched to more now that Victor is behind him. Victor had a great year, yet Cabrera set a career high in walks.

    You can hypothesize what you would do as a pitcher all day long but if you look at factual data you'll see that things don't really change that much for a hitter based on who is hitting before and after him.
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  35. #115
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    I really thought Pitching would be # 1 on his list. . . grrrr...
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  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandma g View Post
    I really thought Pitching would be # 1 on his list. . . grrrr...
    Just because they signed Tori first doesn't mean that it isn't.

    They don't need pitching that bad anyhow. Verlander, Scherzer, Fister, Porcello and Smyly are a fine rotation. As far as relievers go, they have plenty. I wouldn't be surprised if they sign one or relievers for depth but it isn't a huge emergency.
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  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    The concept of line-up protection is not baffling. It just doesn't work as dramatically in practice as it seems like it should it theory. One year it seems to work, the next year it doesn't work so well. Pitchers are as smart as hitters. If a batter changes his approach, they'll generally figure it out and he'll regress back to his norm. Sure, there are probably some hitters who can exploit a new line-up position better than others, but it usually does not help that much.
    I don't believe in line-up protection per se, but I do believe that when you string together a number of hitters that all force a pitcher to try to raise his level and where the pitcher doesn't see any break from the pressure, then all will probably benefit.
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  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    This is what I was going to say. Everyone says he's the new 2 hitter, but he wouldn't be if it was up to me. Dirks/Infante would still be my 2 spot against righties/lefties.

    Anyone who doesn't like the signing is on crack though. We clearly don't have much of a budget restriction and our OF D and O were amongst the worst in the majors last year. Hunter is a huge upgrade. He also can hit lefties which is an issue for this team(why I don't know, but that's another story). He's a great bridge to Garcia and Castellanos though. I do have to wonder if Castellanos is becoming more likely to be dealt though.
    It seems more likely the Tigers now have the valuable luxury of not rushing Castellanos. I could see Garcia being traded before Nick. Of course, I could also see Porcello being traded if we sign Sanchez. I have a feeling this is only the start of bringing in a few pieces to get us over the hump. Some BP arms look the the next step. And maybe resign Laird?
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  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verlander MVP 2011 View Post
    If I'm a pitcher, and I see Miguel Cabrera in the on deck circle with guys on 1st and 3rd, I'm going to give the guy at the plate more hittable pitches, because I am not walking him to get to Cabrera with the bases loaded. If Brennan Boesch was in the on deck circle, no way is Hunter going to get the exact same pitch sequence as he would with Cabrera coming up next. There's absolutely no way in hell I am throwing Hunter a 3-1 fastball with Boesch on deck in that situation, but with Cabrera on deck, there's a much better chance I'd be forced to. I don't really see how anyone could disagree with that.
    If Cabrera is in the on deck circle and with Hunter at the plate, the pitcher wants to do everything he can to make sure he gets him out. There are not a lot of situations where he should ever want to walk Hunter, nor are there many situations where he'd give him something good to hit. The idea is to get him out. Sure, there might be subtle differences in limited situations as how you'd pitch to him, but it's not going to make him a dramatically better hitter.
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  40. #120
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    Nice to hear that we got someone who really wants to be here. Great personality (great smile), strong in character, and a relatively ageless talent. He will, I'm fairly sure, make a difference, particularly in "clutch" situations (where his age and experience work in his favor). Looking forward to seeing Tori in the English D, for sure.
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