What did Raburn do that Dirks didn't do to get playing time?

**Danjo** · 11-12-2012, 07:44 PM

I can't understand why Andy Dirks isn't given a chance to be an everyday player? He was a rock star in winter ball, he hit .322 last year, OPS was .857, has good speed, he hits right and left handers well... and yet they won't consider him an everyday player at all. Raburn sucked and was given every opportunity to make things happen and still sucked.

I don't understand what it is about Dirks that keeps him from getting a shot, especially after they gave Raburn a shot with a horrible track record?

Now they are talking about signing Torii Hunter who had a career year (PID) in his contract year at the age of 36. I certainly hope this doesn't happen. He wants a multi year deal to boot.

I'd much rather see Dirks and Garcia out there, plus Nick Castellanos is playing outfield now and should be a star player in a couple of years. It looks like they have plenty of young OF talent. Please don't sign Hunter. Give the younger guys a shot, it seems to me they have earned it. I must be missing something.

**sabretooth** · 11-12-2012, 07:51 PM

I don't get your beef.....even if they sign Hunter, wouldn't Dirks be the presumptive starting OFer in the other corner OF spot? Who would take away time from Dirks? Even if Garcia or Castellanos gets time, neither are going to be starting full-time, especially with the way that Dirks hits RHP.

**tiger337** · 11-12-2012, 07:57 PM

I like dirks, but I don't know that he's a sure thing. He isn't that young (will be 27 next year) and doesn't have a great deal of power. However, I'm pretty sure he'll be given a shot at an every day job next year and if he hits the way he did this year, he'll keep it.

I don't think Raburn has ever been regarded as an everyday player. He has always been in and out of the line-up even in his good years. He got too many opportunities this year because they didn't have a second baseman.

I'm not a big proponent of a Hunter signing, but I don't think Garcia and Castellanos are ready to play every day in the majors. So, I hope they sign a stop gap.

**Los Gatos** · 11-12-2012, 08:57 PM

If memory serves, Dirks was playing pretty regularly and hitting 2nd prior to his injury. He was back in the lineup after his injury but lower with Berry and Infante hitting 2nd. If the Tigers solidify one of the corners with Hunter or another acquisition, I'd like to see Dirks at the other spot every day. He does a little bit of everything, gets on base, hits for some power, can run the bases and play pretty good defense. I also don't think he should be considered a platoon guy out of the gates unless they add someone who really slaughters LHP. Dirks has hit them well enough during his first 2 seasons (small PA sample though) - if he can maintain that level or even improve a little bit, he's a solid all-around player.

**Nastradamus** · 11-13-2012, 12:35 AM

I think he will get his shot.

As far as Raburn, what he did was put up a pretty respectable OPS most of the time when they did give him a shot. He especially did so by heating up in the 2nd half. Even then, he never got more than 410 PAs, so he didn't exactly get some sort of extended shot either.

**pyrotigers** · 11-13-2012, 01:24 AM

Well, going into this last year Ryan Raburn had a history of MLB success and had just hit .256 .297 .432 in 2011

Andy Dirks hit .251 .296 .406 in 2011

**DaYooperASBDT** · 11-13-2012, 06:29 PM

Dirks will get lots of PT next year.

I think you forgot to subtract Boesch and Berry from the OF equation? Also I don't think Garcia is ready
to hit RHP in the big leagues quite yet (although he has certainly impressed me at times).

Castellanos needs another year at AAA, or at least part of a year. Also you can't guarantee that
Victor Martinez will be 100% of what he did pre-knee injury.

I'm not real keen on signing Hunter, especially if he wants more than two years. We do need
a decent "stop gap" option for that third OF spot, however.

**Motor City Sonics** · 11-13-2012, 06:33 PM

If the Tigers sign Torii Hunter, I am pretty sure that means Avasail Garcia starts the season in Toledo (so he can play every day) and Dirks is made the starting RF unless he shows he can't get it done. I don't seem them trading Boesch (they won't get what they want for him).

**Danjo** · 11-13-2012, 11:20 PM

I hope Dirks get more playing time. It looks like Hunter is going to sign with Detroit. He wants a multi-year deal which is crazy for a player at that age. He did what I perceive that most players do in their contract year... PIDs. I don't expect last year's numbers to continue. I don't know why guys get contracts based upon 1 year of outstanding performance when previously they didn't play to high levels. You would think the front office would get that they are taking drugs for that year. Melky Cabrera is a good example. His year in KC was crazy good for him. He continued to use in SF, but got caught. I think Hunter is doing the same thing. It just doesn't add up at his age.

**Danjo** · 11-13-2012, 11:25 PM

Beltre's final year in LA was a similar situation. He hit 48 HR, batted .334 and had an OPS of 1.017. The next year in Seattle he went back to his usual 19 HR, .255 BA and .716 OPS.

I know Cabrera had a year left on his contract with KC, but when you get to KC you usually understand there isn't anywhere else to go except AAA after that if you don't perform. Anyway, I don't like the Hunter idea unless he continues to take PIDs.

**Nastradamus** · 11-13-2012, 11:34 PM

Safeco destroys right handed power, Beltre has never been the guy he was that one season in LA I suppose, but he's always been an elite talent. He had a brutal shoulder injury his last year in Seattle too.

**Yoda** · 11-13-2012, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Danjo

I hope Dirks get more playing time. It looks like Hunter is going to sign with Detroit. He wants a multi-year deal which is crazy for a player at that age. He did what I perceive that most players do in their contract year... PIDs. I don't expect last year's numbers to continue. I don't know why guys get contracts based upon 1 year of outstanding performance when previously they didn't play to high levels. You would think the front office would get that they are taking drugs for that year. Melky Cabrera is a good example. His year in KC was crazy good for him. He continued to use in SF, but got caught. I think Hunter is doing the same thing. It just doesn't add up at his age.

What's a PID and why do you think Hunter did them?

**tiger337** · 11-13-2012, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Danjo

I hope Dirks get more playing time. It looks like Hunter is going to sign with Detroit. He wants a multi-year deal which is crazy for a player at that age. He did what I perceive that most players do in their contract year... PIDs. I don't expect last year's numbers to continue. I don't know why guys get contracts based upon 1 year of outstanding performance when previously they didn't play to high levels. You would think the front office would get that they are taking drugs for that year. Melky Cabrera is a good example. His year in KC was crazy good for him. He continued to use in SF, but got caught. I think Hunter is doing the same thing. It just doesn't add up at his age.

Hunter didn't really do better in 2012. He was a different kind of player and I would argue that he did worse. He improved his batting average, but his power was down, walks down and strikeouts up. I'm confident is batting average is going down next year, not sure about the other stuff.

**Danjo** · 11-14-2012, 12:14 AM

Sorry - PED. I'm on the crack myself. Performance enhancing drug. Something like HGH or hybrid steroids. Possibly the kind of stuff Braun got busted with. Hunter's OPS+ was 132, his highest ever on 2012 at the age of 36.

**Yoda** · 11-14-2012, 12:40 AM

Weighted mostly on a batting average that was flukey high. He didn't go out and hit 40 HR's. The BABIP gods were nice to him for a year, I really think that's all there is to it.

**Corky** · 11-14-2012, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Yoda

What's a PID and why do you think Hunter did them?

PID is Proportional - Integral - Derivative and is a controller for managing changing situations without need for someone to monitor it. I have a BBQ controller for my smoker than is a PID unit. Holds temp by turning a fan on and off as needed based on temperature at the grill surface.

Maybe Torii likes to rustle up some good Q!

**Gehringer_2** · 11-14-2012, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Corky

PID is Proportional - Integral - Derivative and is a controller for managing changing situations without need for someone to monitor it. I have a BBQ controller for my smoker than is a PID unit. Holds temp by turning a fan on and off as needed based on temperature at the grill surface.

Maybe Torii likes to rustle up some good Q!

+1
Control theory reference on MTS. You just never know around here!

**1776** · 11-14-2012, 07:37 AM

Whatever the hell it is, it is Jim Leyland's fault.

**John_Brian_K** · 11-14-2012, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Corky

PID is Proportional - Integral - Derivative and is a controller for managing changing situations without need for someone to monitor it. I have a BBQ controller for my smoker than is a PID unit. Holds temp by turning a fan on and off as needed based on temperature at the grill surface.

Maybe Torii likes to rustle up some good Q!

PID in my line of work is shorthand for Product Identification.

**tiger337** · 11-14-2012, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Yoda

Weighted mostly on a batting average that was flukey high. He didn't go out and hit 40 HR's. The BABIP gods were nice to him for a year, I really think that's all there is to it.

He also hit a lot fewer fly balls. There are a couple of theories about that: (1) He changed his approach to compensate for lack of power. (2) He changed his approach because he was batting in between Trout and Pujols rather than batting middle of order. Either way, I agree his BABIP was too high. He might not fall all the way to back to his typical levels though.

**tiger337** · 11-14-2012, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Danjo

Sorry - PED. I'm on the crack myself. Performance enhancing drug. Something like HGH or hybrid steroids. Possibly the kind of stuff Braun got busted with. Hunter's OPS+ was 132, his highest ever on 2012 at the age of 36.

The only thing he improved through was batting average. Everything else was worse including power. That sseems more like a change of approach or luck rather than something PED-induced.

**Yoda** · 11-14-2012, 10:11 AM

Yeah, but his RBI's went up!!

**ballmich** · 11-14-2012, 11:05 AM

I think it's quite possible that you see a Dirks/Raburn straight platoon in LF or RF next season. At least to begin with. They no longer have to screw around with Raburn at 2B. He can just focus on playing the OF and hitting LHP... and who knows.

**Scottwood** · 11-14-2012, 11:20 AM

Hunter also upped his swing % by about 5% over his three year average from 09-11, which is fairly significant. From afar, it looks like he changed his approach last year, but there could be a number of reasons for that and maybe it won't even continue next year. Teams will have inside info on this, but I'm not sure of any quality studies by bloggers on changes in a hitters batting approach and the variety of things one could study with that beyond just BB and K percentage and Iso.

**DaYooperASBDT** · 11-16-2012, 06:27 PM

Boesch needs to go back to AA or AAA and remake his entire batting approach - if it's not too late.

Hunter only needs to get on base - I don't care if he hits a single HR, as long as his OBP is at least .340

Raburn? I think his Detroit days are over.

**Gehringer_2** · 11-16-2012, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by ballmich

I think it's quite possible that you see a Dirks/Raburn straight platoon in LF or RF next season. At least to begin with. They no longer have to screw around with Raburn at 2B. He can just focus on playing the OF and hitting LHP... and who knows.

That's would probably be a pointless platoon.Dirks OPSD'd 270 points higher than Raburn *against left hand pitching*.