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  1. #1
    IdahoBert's Avatar
    IdahoBert is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Default Tigers lead in grounding into double plays and as worst base running team




    Bill James deems Detroit Tigers as worst baserunning team | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

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  2. #2
    Just Some Dude's Avatar
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    Sucks Cabrera was also the teams Triple Crown winner in outs lol 28 DP's 182 GO's 171 AO's. His 28 DP's led MLB though.

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    RandyMarsh is offline MotownSports Fan
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    I'd like to see our numbers in terms of scoring from 2nd on singles or 1st on extra base hits. I know this can't be the case but it it honestly seemed to me like more often than not we didn't score from 2nd on singles to the OF.

  4. #4
    Just Some Dude's Avatar
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    I can't give you exactly what you want but here is a rough idea..

    With a runner on 2nd base the Tigers had 419 AB's they scored 95 runs.

    With a runner on 1st base the Tigers had 1048 AB's they scored 93 runs.

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    froggyvk is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Some Dude View Post
    I can't give you exactly what you want but here is a rough idea..

    With a runner on 2nd base the Tigers had 419 AB's they scored 95 runs.

    With a runner on 1st base the Tigers had 1048 AB's they scored 93 runs.
    With a runner on 2nd or runners on 1st and 2nd the Tigers hit 155 singles and scored 94 runs, so 60.7 percent. I excluded runners on 2nd and 3rd or bases loaded because then obviously you're in position to score multiple runs on singles and that would throw off the data. In all of MLB there were 3,968 singles in this given scenario and 2,417 runs scored, so 60.9 percent, so the Tigers were only slightly below average in this scenario.

    Here is a look at the AL teams. The Tigers ranked 7 out of 14. Excluding Detroit the AL average was 60.83 percent.

    Angels: 100/145 - 68.97
    Athletics: 87/127 - 68.50
    Twins: 93/145 - 64.14
    White Sox: 83/134 -61.94
    Blue Jays: 78/126 - 61.90
    Rangers: 91/149 - 61.07
    Tigers: 94/155 - 60.65
    Rays: 63/104 - 60.58
    Red Sox: 89/147 - 60.54
    Orioles: 60/102 - 58.82
    Royals: 92/157 - 58.60
    Indians: 75/131 - 57.25
    Yankees: 80/144 - 55.56
    Mariners: 45/92 - 48.91

    The potential flaw in this data is it does not account for errors. If a runner were to stop at third but scores because the left fielder bobbled the ball, that would not correctly be factored in. For example, in a different scenario, there were 42 runs scored from first base on a single but only one RBI, when Rios scored from first on a Alexei Ramirez single on Apr 6 at TEX. After thinking about it more, perhaps the better way to do it would be RBI divided by Singles (with runners at 1st and 2nd or a runner on 2nd). In that instance the Tigers were 92/155 for 59.35 percent and in MLB it was 2335/3968 for 58.84, or 58.82 percent if you exclude Rios scoring from first on a single.
    Last edited by froggyvk; 11-06-2012 at 07:58 PM.

  6. #6
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    i don't think that it's any secret that this is a terrible baserunning team. in addition to having few players with any speed, they are allowed to poorly execute fundamental plays like taking primary and secondary leads and picking up batted balls while running the bases without any apparent repercussion. responsibility for that is on the heads of the pittsburgh mafia.
    Evil

    Originally Posted by CASPER WELLS:
    Don't make me come out to Ferndale and whip your ***, boy.

  7. #7
    Charles Liston is offline MotownSports Fan
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    We should get some kind of a pass for the Lamont Factor though.

  8. #8
    STLTiger69 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    To me the double play thing is easy to understand;

    Like it or leave it, Leyland is not a big believer in the stolen base. I also think Leyland likes the idea of leaving a runner at 1B and creating more "holes" on the infield for the batter to punch a batted ball through with the 1B having to play near the bag and the SS or 2B having to figure out who covers the bag at 2B. True, when this fails the Tigers usually get on the wrong end of a double play, but ask yourself this question, does Cabrera still win the triple crown if Austin Jackson gets tossed out trying to steal second almost 25% of the time (that's his career numbers, Jackson was 12 SB's and 9 CS for 2012, a 57% sucess rate). Infante had 7 SBs for the Tigers and CS 2 and Dirks for his career is 6 SB's and 3 CS. These are not "burner" type stolen base numbers from Jackson, Infante or Dirks.

    Also, if Jackson, Dirks or Infante were to actually be sucessful and steal a base in front of Cabrera, why in the world would any pitcher bother to pitch to Cabrera when the pitcher can pitch around Cabrera and set up another double play with Fielder?



    Also let me point something else out about the SB thing. Guess what four top teams lead in stolen bases for 2012 and what those teams records were? You folks might find this interesting...

    1) Milwaukee Brewers 158 SB's record 83-79 3rd place in the division, 14 games out of 1st place.

    2) San Diego Padres 155 SB's record 76-86, 4th place in the division, 18 games out of 1st place.

    3) Miami Marlins 149 SB's record 69-93 5th place (last) in the divison, 29 games out of 1st place.

    4) Minnesota Twins 135 SB's record 66-96 5th place (last) in the division, 22 games out of 1st place.

    So as you can see, the amount of stolen bases is really the single determining factor as to what a team will do in terms of wins and losses for the year right?



    PS: In 2011, the World Champion St. Louis Cardinals for the year had how many SB's as a team? If you guessed 57 (good enough to rank 29th out of 30 teams with the Tigers being #30 with 49 SB's) you would be correct...
    Last edited by STLTiger69; 11-07-2012 at 04:10 AM.
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  9. #9
    STLTiger69 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by froggyvk View Post

    Here is a look at the AL teams. The Tigers ranked 7 out of 14. Excluding Detroit the AL average was 60.83 percent.
    Darn fine numbers work, tip of the cap for that!!
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  10. #10
    Casimir is online now MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoBert View Post
    Bill James deems Detroit Tigers as worst baserunning team | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

    We are finally right about something that seemed to be certain, even though we couldn't prove it.

    Well at least some of us a finally right about something.
    Yeah, can't say I am surprised. The good/bad thing is that with the limited amount of base runners in the World Series, this was not beaten to death by McCarver, save for the Fielder play where he should have ran through rather than slide into home.

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