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Thread: Ichiro?

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    Default Ichiro?




    What do you think of signing Ichiro to a 1 year deal, if possible? I understand he's past his prime, and a singles hitter and all that, but it seems to me that he'd be a nice complementary piece to this team.
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    I think his days of having an OPS over .700 are over, and I'm sure he'd just automatically be placed in the #2 slot.

    Great speed though, and a canon in the outfield, so he'd at least be more valuable than Berry. I'm not all that interested.
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    IchiNO.

    I see Yoda's Berry and raise him a Boesch if that's what it boils down to though.
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    As a last resort, sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    I think his days of having an OPS over .700 are over, and I'm sure he'd just automatically be placed in the #2 slot.

    Great speed though, and a canon in the outfield, so he'd at least be more valuable than Berry. I'm not all that interested.
    Would slugging be as important in the #2 spot of the lineup if Cabrera, Fielder, and Martinez are healthy and producing? Could Dirks be plugged into #2 and Ichiro lower in the lineup (although I agree with you that Leyland would plug him into the #2 spot automatically)? Ichiro would be the 3rd best OF option on the team not named Jackson and Dirks right now. If he can still get on base and run them well, if he can still play solid defense (especially in a big OF), if he is willing to do a one year deal with a team option for a 2nd, I think he is certainly worth a look.

    Edit: Looking over his OBP, it has dropped every season since 2009. .386 in 2009, .359 in 2010, .310 in 2011, .307 in 2012. Maybe not as good of an option as I had originally believed. But still an upgrade over Berry (who shouldn't be in the majors), Raburn and Boesch (who probably will get a chance to win a job in spring training).
    Last edited by Casimir; 11-06-2012 at 09:37 AM.

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    He would be better than Berry/Boesch, but they really should be able to do better than Suzuki. He can still run and play defense, but his years as a productive hitter seem to be over.
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    I would rather give one of the young guys a chance to earn that spot. Maybe 40-50 games to start the season and see what they do.
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    Ichiro is still productive. 170+ hits, 77 runs, 28 doubles, 6 triples, 29 sb, and a 700+ ops, I would take that stat line everyday
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    Runs are a team stat. Also, despite his 170 hits, he doesn't get on base often enough.

    Give me Cody Ross! Pronto.
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    Ichiro is still productive. 170+ hits, 77 runs, 28 doubles, 6 triples, 29 sb, and a 700+ ops, I would take that stat line everyday
    I'm with you. Of course it depends on the cost. I'd give him a 2 year deal.
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    You guys, 170 hits isn't all that much considering he hits leadoff and never walks. He had almost 700 plate appearances. that only produces a .283 BA. That, combined with not walking, and very little power, doesn't give you much of a hitter. He had a .696 OPS on the year!! And consider the fact that he's probably going to get worse before he gets better, and you want to give him 2 years???? This is blowing my mind.
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    I would be willing to bet that Garcia could put up a .310 OBP with good speed and defense too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I would be willing to bet that Garcia could put up a .310 OBP with good speed and defense too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    You guys, 170 hits isn't all that much considering he hits leadoff and never walks. He had almost 700 plate appearances. that only produces a .283 BA. That, combined with not walking, and very little power, doesn't give you much of a hitter. He had a .696 OPS on the year!! And consider the fact that he's probably going to get worse before he gets better, and you want to give him 2 years???? This is blowing my mind.
    Reminds me of how our fans LOVED polanco so much, Ichiro is just another Polance at this point except he plays a more traditionally offensive position
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    Sounds like Ross is in talks with the Red Sox for 3 years 25M.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Thank you!!! With a chance to gain valuable experience along the way.
    I'm not saying that I endorse the Tigers starting Garcia in right, but it would be preferable to Ichiro IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Thank you!!! With a chance to gain valuable experience along the way.
    but, but... experienced 2 hitter who scores runs and can bunt.

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    I might consider it at the end of the winter, after seeing how things play out. But I'd rather just find a cheap platoon bat that hits LHP and plays adequate defense at one on the corner OF spots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Runs are a team stat. Also, despite his 170 hits, he doesn't get on base often enough.

    Give me Cody Ross! Pronto.
    It's less of an issue of getting on base more, and more of an issue that those 170-180 hits are extremely empty. He's relegated to a singles hitter who doesn't draw walks now.
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    he has only averaged like 40 walks a year his whole career, so its not like he dosent walk anymore. He never has.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim pickens View Post
    he has only averaged like 40 walks a year his whole career, so its not like he dosent walk anymore. He never has.
    Well that makes it ok then.
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    I thought about Cody Ross too, but his numbers outside of Fenway Park last year (2012) were pretty bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    You guys, 170 hits isn't all that much considering he hits leadoff and never walks. He had almost 700 plate appearances. that only produces a .283 BA. That, combined with not walking, and very little power, doesn't give you much of a hitter. He had a .696 OPS on the year!! And consider the fact that he's probably going to get worse before he gets better, and you want to give him 2 years???? This is blowing my mind.
    This is basically "The Devil You Know" Syndrome at work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasfh View Post
    This is basically "The Devil You Know" Syndrome at work.
    Nice! I used this phrase not more than an hour ago for a completely different topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    You guys, 170 hits isn't all that much considering he hits leadoff and never walks. He had almost 700 plate appearances. that only produces a .283 BA. That, combined with not walking, and very little power, doesn't give you much of a hitter. He had a .696 OPS on the year!! And consider the fact that he's probably going to get worse before he gets better, and you want to give him 2 years???? This is blowing my mind.
    I think we need to not look at things in a vacuum. At the beginning of July there was rampant speculation that Ichiro was completely disinterested in what the Mariners were doing, year after year losing and gaining no ground. Many speculated that if he is traded his numbers would reflect an "involved" Ichiro:

    2012 stats:
    W/Sea: .261 BA, .288 OBP, .353 Slugging, .642 OPS, 84 OPS+
    W/NYY: .322 BA, .340 OBP, .454 Slugging, .794 OPS, 114 OPS+

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    In my opinion, it makes no sense to sign a 2nd tier guy like Ross or Ichiro to take over when you could put Garcia out there and he might struggle and hit .240, but can run, play defense and inject some youth into the team. If it's Berry/Boesch or Ross/Ichiro, I go with Ross or Ichiro, but IMO you have to go with a guy like Garcia. It's what good teams that build from their farm do. We gave Boesch every opportunity and he was never close to the prospect that Garcia is.

    I for one would take Garcia or Nick C in RF over Ichiro or Ross. Now if they decide to man up and get Hunter/Swisher/Pagan for a year or two, I'm ok with adding someone like that
    Put me on record. Prince Fielder will still OPS 850+ in years 7-8-9 of this contract. (sucks that my signature has to stay this for 7 years now)

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    Too small of a sample size. Barry had a good two months also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    I think we need to not look at things in a vacuum. At the beginning of July there was rampant speculation that Ichiro was completely disinterested in what the Mariners were doing, year after year losing and gaining no ground. Many speculated that if he is traded his numbers would reflect an "involved" Ichiro:

    2012 stats:
    W/Sea: .261 BA, .288 OBP, .353 Slugging, .642 OPS, 84 OPS+
    W/NYY: .322 BA, .340 OBP, .454 Slugging, .794 OPS, 114 OPS+
    And I am sure the ball park had nothing to do with that either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by will the thrill View Post
    In my opinion, it makes no sense to sign a 2nd tier guy like Ross or Ichiro to take over when you could put Garcia out there and he might struggle and hit .240, but can run, play defense and inject some youth into the team. If it's Berry/Boesch or Ross/Ichiro, I go with Ross or Ichiro, but IMO you have to go with a guy like Garcia. It's what good teams that build from their farm do. We gave Boesch every opportunity and he was never close to the prospect that Garcia is.

    I for one would take Garcia or Nick C in RF over Ichiro or Ross. Now if they decide to man up and get Hunter/Swisher/Pagan for a year or two, I'm ok with adding someone like that
    It depends on how the team feels about Garcia's development. If they feel he needs more time in AAA, that probably needs to become the priority over using him to fill the corner OF spot. Even if he tears it up in spring training, having a safety net of a guy on a one year deal provides Garcia time to play every day without worry in Toledo. If he's still tearing it up in June, then the Tigers have a small chip to move in the rental OF. My unqualified opinion is that starting him out in Toledo is probably the better way to go. Even if it means starting out with Raburn/Boesch in April.

    Throw Dirks into the #2 slot, let some time go be, evaluate where the team is there. Having Martinez in the lineup is like a FA addition already over last season. Now I wouldn't expect much out of Raburn/Boesch, but they shouldn't be counted on as much as they were last season. With the projected 1-5 lineup, plus Infante hitting last (it wouldn't be a terrible thing to have him #2 and Dirks #6), there's some wiggle room for the Tigers in the AL Central.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Well that makes it ok then.
    well u bring up he dosent walk for a leadoff hitter, but yet only like 3 leadoff hitters are in the top 40 for walks
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim pickens View Post
    well u bring up he dosent walk for a leadoff hitter, but yet only like 3 leadoff hitters are in the top 40 for walks
    I thought he was mentioning that he leads off to show that he gets more PA's, thus making 170 hits less valuable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I thought he was mentioning that he leads off to show that he gets more PA's, thus making 170 hits less valuable.
    170 hits is always valuable no matter where u hit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim pickens View Post
    170 hits is always valuable no matter where u hit.
    The value is determined by the amount of PA's, which was the point of what I was saying. 170 hits over 700 plate appearances is less valuable than 170 in 600 PA's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I would be willing to bet that Garcia could put up a .310 OBP with good speed and defense too.
    I'm not a Garcia believer and I think this is right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I'm not saying that I endorse the Tigers starting Garcia in right, but it would be preferable to Ichiro IMO.
    Agree, I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim pickens View Post
    170 hits is always valuable no matter where u hit.
    Horace Clarke had 172 hits for the Yankees in 1970. He hit .251 that year, with an on base of .286 and an OPS of .595. Is that valuable? Would you take that result every day?

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    Can we just agree that the Yankees deserve to over pay for Ichiro's services and have to put up with the Japanese press always hounding him in the locker room next to A-Rod and Jeter?
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim pickens View Post
    170 hits is always valuable no matter where u hit.
    You're killing me man... 170 hits in 400 abs is awesome. In 700? Not so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Can we just agree that the Yankees deserve to over pay for Ichiro's services and have to put up with the Japanese press always hounding him in the locker room next to A-Rod and Jeter?
    Indeed, we can. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    You're killing me man... 170 hits in 400 abs is awesome. In 700? Not so much.
    lol.

    Im not clamoring for Ichiro, but to say he still dosent put up numbers is just not true. and it was 629 abs!!!
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