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  1. #1
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    Default Leyland is back per Tom Gage




    KL2...who does not post here much...would be delighted.

    Tigers manager Jim Leyland set to return | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com
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    Didn't expect this. Not upset though.
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    YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD...........YESSSS!!!!!!!
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    Good. I just read this...

    Leyland was the Tigers replacement for Alan Trammell in 2006. Trammell, the former Tigers player and World Series MVP, never had a winning season in three years with his former team. Trammell compiled a 186-300 record in Detroit. The three seasons were part of a eleven year losing record streak.
    Since taking over in 2006, Leyland has led the Tigers with a 607-528 record. Leyland’s 54% win rate is his best with any of his four teams. The Tigers manager has had six winning seasons in his seven years in the Motor City. Leyland led the Tigers to back to back AL Central Championships in 2011 and 2012.

    Read more at Jim Leyland Making Retirement Decision Soon

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    yeah, be sure and take another crap on Trammell's grave.

    Leyland's sack-lickers never miss a chance.


    I am not surprised -- I never thought Leyland was in even remote danger of firing unless the team had totally collapsed and finished way out of the playoff race (see 2008).

    I thought he might be getting worn down by the grind and might stomp off on his own volition (as he has stomped off from all his previous MLB jobs).

    When the team finished strong and then got hot in the playoffs (before the WS) I figured it was a done deal he would be back.

    Hopefully the coaching staff will be shaken up. Get the incompetent Lamont out of the 3B coaching box.

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    brad22784 is online now MotownSports Fan
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    I'm glad Leyland is returning. Hope McClendon gets the boot though but I doubt it.

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    Hey cool. Let me break this nonsense down!


    yeah, be sure and take another crap on Trammell's grave.

    Leyland's sack-lickers never miss a chance.
    The point is, that the Tigers, since Sparky lost and looked terrible until 2006. I am not a Leyland "sack licker." But who has lead the Tigers to more post seasons? Answer this. I would like to know. Is he perfect? No. Was Trammell/Pujols/Bell/Parrish better? No.


    I am not surprised -- I never thought Leyland was in even remote danger of firing unless the team had totally collapsed and finished way out of the playoff race (see 2008).
    Again. Who since '87 even has had this kind of success?

    I thought he might be getting worn down by the grind and might stomp off on his own volition (as he has stomped off from all his previous MLB jobs).

    When the team finished strong and then got hot in the playoffs (before the WS) I figured it was a done deal he would be back.

    Hopefully the coaching staff will be shaken up. Get the incompetent Lamont out of the 3B coaching box.
    See you are just looking for an easy scapegoat. If he managed any other team he'd be the top of your list as the next Tiger manager.

    You need to blame. You twist facts to fit your argument. The facts are he has had more post-season appearances than any Tigers manager since before 1910. Defend against that.
    Last edited by NeedMoreLike84; 10-30-2012 at 01:52 AM.

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    Do other teams' message boards display such irrational hate for their successful coaching staffs? I've read a bunch of other boards, but I never see nearly as much criticism of the coaches as I do here. And most teams are worse than us. Must be a Detroit thing or something.
    Distribution of wealth is not in any way democratic. It is, in fact, tyrannical, in that a very select few own almost all of it, while most have little to no access. To have a country that prioritizes wealth over individual rights is the antithesis of democracy.

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    "I'm definitely looking forward to having him back," Verlander said. "We're obviously disappointed that we didn't see this all the way through. But he's an important reason as to why we got this far."

    Man he is totally "licking Leyland's sack." Kind of like how all the players LOVED and respected Trammell/Pujols/Garner/Parish
    Last edited by NeedMoreLike84; 10-30-2012 at 02:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    Do other teams' message boards display such irrational hate for their successful coaching staffs? I've read a bunch of other boards, but I never see nearly as much criticism of the coaches as I do here. And most teams are worse than us. Must be a Detroit thing or something.
    No. My boss is a true blue, die hard and knowledgable Red Sox fan and to the last day was praying for a Francona return

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    McClendon basically single-handedly turned Austin Jackson into an All-Star this offseason. I believe he had a hand in Peralta's near career-year last year, too, although he did fall back to earth.

    Who on this team hit worse than they were projected to hit? Avila and Peralta were widely expected to come back to earth, and everyone else did as good as or better than expected.
    Distribution of wealth is not in any way democratic. It is, in fact, tyrannical, in that a very select few own almost all of it, while most have little to no access. To have a country that prioritizes wealth over individual rights is the antithesis of democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeedMoreLike84 View Post
    No. My boss is a true blue, die hard and knowledgable Red Sox fan and to the last day was praying for a Francona return
    And yet there's plenty of reason to actually hate on Francona. His clubhouse was totally out of control.
    Distribution of wealth is not in any way democratic. It is, in fact, tyrannical, in that a very select few own almost all of it, while most have little to no access. To have a country that prioritizes wealth over individual rights is the antithesis of democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    And yet there's plenty of reason to actually hate on Francona. His clubhouse was totally out of control.
    I am with you. I am just saying that this irrational hatred of a successful manager is a Detroit thing. Like I think most Detroit fans would trade Leyland for Gardenhire or (in some cases) Guillen

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeedMoreLike84 View Post
    I am with you. I am just saying that this irrational hatred of a successful manager is a Detroit thing.
    I have to agree. I'm also a big Brewers fan, and the fans there seem to love their managers, even if the team does poorly. They might complain about a pitching change here or there, but they don't assert that they should be fired even when the Brewers have a losing season.
    Distribution of wealth is not in any way democratic. It is, in fact, tyrannical, in that a very select few own almost all of it, while most have little to no access. To have a country that prioritizes wealth over individual rights is the antithesis of democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    I have to agree. I'm also a big Brewers fan, and the fans there seem to love their managers, even if the team does poorly. They might complain about a pitching change here or there, but they don't assert that they should be fired even when the Brewers have a losing season.
    total disclosure I went off on leyland and wanting a replacement over the course of this year. But in the end, I do think he is a good manager and am happy for his return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROMAD1 View Post
    KL2...who does not post here much...would be delighted.

    Tigers manager Jim Leyland set to return | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com
    Jim never saw Paul Newman (known as PJ at the track) after a 3.5 hour IMSA race in the Canon/Planters Nissan. Even in his advanced years he was competitive and tried to hide the strain of combined G forces, heat and muscular effort.
    This takes nothing away from Jim. I could see him leaving and hope he remains.
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    He has some good skills if he could only abandon the Tigers wall as you could call it for pride of the players. Think a little more in the bullpen. Don't wait forever and a day to pull a guy who is struggling. Basically don't be a stubborn sob because you don't want to hurt a players feelings. Jim loves his players to a fault. Hope doesn't always get the job done and he does that too much.

    Reality is this team has a lot of holes for lack of offensive production. Fix the problems, get VMart back, find a new closer and we are in the hunt.

    But...lets not forgot we would have not made the playoffs without the White Sux collapse. That alone is a big worry because we did not dominate as we probably could have. Fault can be laid on players and management because expecting to kick *** doesn't mean it really happens.

    Last thing. Take some pitches and swing at strikes. Don't let the junk baller beat you up. This is on the hitting coach to get that plan in line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    yeah, be sure and take another crap on Trammell's grave.

    Leyland's sack-lickers never miss a chance.
    And then I stopped reading.

    I have no strong feelings about this either way. The players seemed to want him back, so I'm cool with it.
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  19. #19
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    Trammell has been gone seven seasons now. He ain't coming back.

    There has never been anybody banging the drums to fire Leyland and hire Trammell.

    Going into deep detail about Trammell's lack of success is piling on. He's gone, Leyland's staying, forget it.

    Remember also Trammell was managing a sub-Class AAA roster due to the penny-pinching budgets of the time. Leyland would lose and lose big too managing that kind of "talent."

    All of a sudden Leyland comes in and they bust the bank. Go out and buy Trammell a Cabrera and Verlander he wouldn't be losing 120 games a year. Also Trammell's efforts to discipline the clubhouse had the minor problem that players like Pudge and Dmitri Young could run and cry on Dombrowski's shoulder any time they were mad at Trammell and they were told, "don't worry, your problems will be over soon."

    Leyland did manage to finish in last place in 2008 even WITH a big money budget.

    Leyland is a slightly above average manager. There's no point in reiterating the point Trammell was crappy to prove it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    Do other teams' message boards display such irrational hate for their successful coaching staffs? I've read a bunch of other boards, but I never see nearly as much criticism of the coaches as I do here. And most teams are worse than us. Must be a Detroit thing or something.
    Maybe just midwestern, a lot of Palehose fans had been after Ozzie's scalp for some time before he got the ziggy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    yeah, be sure and take another crap on Trammell's grave.
    I suspect if Jim Leyland was to want to manage a different team right now, there would be serveral other teams that would probably be very happy to make room for Leyland as their manager.

    I have a great respect for what Alan Trammell did as a player for Detroit and I'll always think highly of him as a person. And I'm not trying to pile on here, but, you know, Trammell's had FIVE YEARS of being other teams bench coaches and still has not made it back into managing a team. When Trammell was bench coach of the Cubs for 3 seasons and Lou Piniella quit in the middle of the season, the Cubs didn't even bother to promote Trammell to manager. Even now Trammell is Kirk Gibson's bench coach in Arizona and getting the opporunity to watch Leyland on tv take the Tigers into another post season run.
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    Hating a "successful" manager is pretty common because almost every manager makes mind boggling and factually incorrect decisions on a regular basis. Francona won two world series and people had no problem crapping all over him because of one bad year. It's certainly not just a Detroit thing. Go look at what Yankees fans thought of Joe Girardi after the ALCS. Or Cardinals (the best fans in sports!) fans reactions to Chris Carpenter inexplicably starting games in the LCS.

    I would definitely not trade Leyland for Gardenhire or Guillen. That's really the only reason that keeping Leyland is defensible, because Dombrowski or Illitch would almost assuredly hire someone just as bad but unknown to the players. That doesn't mean that I think it's a good idea of course, it's just sad that MLB is still an organization who's management generally is so backwards as to routinely throw away a possible competitive advantage over made up nonsense.
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  23. #23
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    I'm not a Leyland guy, but I'm not a "Leyland has to go" guy either........I'm mostly agnostic to the issue.

    That said, some of the stuff in this thread written in service of the pro-Leyland argument is........not good........in particular the bit about "most post-season appearances by any Tigers manager". Seriously?

    Most Tigers managers managed during a time when two teams made the post-season, and a very large minority of Tigers managers managed during a time when four teams made the post-season (well actually a large minority of seasons happened under these rules....not necessarily managers, as the Tigers had few managers during this era). It is but a small number of a Tigers managers who have managed during a time when 8 or 10 teams made the post-season. If 8 or 10 teams would've qualified for the post-season in the 80s the Tigers would've been near perennial entrants. 1961 immediately comes to mind as another year that the Tigers would have easily qualified for the playoffs if 8 or 10 teams qualified. I have no desire at this time to go year-by-year to see just how many extra post-seasons they would've participated in, but logic dictates it would probably be a number that is significant to the point here. Twice during the 80s the Tigers had the best record in the entire major leagues, something that STILL has not happened since 1987.

    It's not Leyland's fault that the rules are different and worse since he took over the Tigers, and he doesn't lose credit for managing to those post-seasons, but you can't throw down the "Most Post seasons EVER!!!!" gauntlet and then walk away as if that argument speaks for itself, because it really doesn't. It only speaks for the fact that Leyland has been more successful than Trammell/Garner/Pujols/Bell, it doesn't even really begin the case for much else than that.
    Last edited by DET Mr Malefic; 10-30-2012 at 05:37 AM.
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    I'm happy with Leyland coming back. I think TJ's big complaint was that there was no need to take a shot at Trammell there. And there wasn't.
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    I'm on the fence on bringing Leyland back. It's hard to justify not based on the results in the W/L column since he's been here. He makes some head scratching decisions and is loyal to a fault, but I don't know who we could bring in to replace him right now. The players seem to like playing for him and he has kept the ship sailing through some adversity. Hopefully DD is able to take some of the players that Leyland is overly loyal to out of the equation for next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeedMoreLike84 View Post
    The point is, that the Tigers, since Sparky lost and looked terrible until 2006. I am not a Leyland "sack licker." But who has lead the Tigers to more post seasons? Answer this. I would like to know. Is he perfect? No. Was Trammell/Pujols/Bell/Parrish better? No.
    You don't honestly believe that it has nothing to do with the actual players they've had to manage do you? This is ridiculous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    McClendon basically single-handedly turned Austin Jackson into an All-Star this offseason. I believe he had a hand in Peralta's near career-year last year, too, although he did fall back to earth.
    McClendon also failed to help the hitters make adjustments to the pitchers and to interrupt the pitcher's flow. SF did that and they were very successful. Lloyd sat there chewing on sunflower seeds clinging to Leyland's arm.

    I'm neither happy nor sad about Leyland's return. I'll be just as frustrated with his old school management style this year and will want him fired in August again. That said, McClendon, at a minimum, must go or be relegated to 3b coach while a hitting coach is brought in.
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    Good, I'm glad he's coming back.

    His line-ups still make me crazy, I can't say I'm looking forward to those, but overall, I don't think we could find anyone better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem View Post
    McClendon also failed to help the hitters make adjustments to the pitchers and to interrupt the pitcher's flow. SF did that and they were very successful. Lloyd sat there chewing on sunflower seeds clinging to Leyland's arm.

    I'm neither happy nor sad about Leyland's return. I'll be just as frustrated with his old school management style this year and will want him fired in August again. That said, McClendon, at a minimum, must go or be relegated to 3b coach while a hitting coach is brought in.
    Yeah, if Jackson is all you have for a pro-McLendon argument, and day in, day out the Tigers were completely unprepared to face certain pitchers, then something is wrong. I need more than "Jackson is good now".
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    This is good news. Changing managers after a WS appearance would be a risk. The team didn't get swept because of Jim Leyland.

    Sometimes I think people forget that baseball is not football or basketball, where the head coach has a lot more influence on the actual action in a game. In baseball the players know what to do. They're not running plays or defensive schemes or a particular type of offense. A basball manager's job is fundamentally different. I know it's not by design but having them called managers rather than coach like in other sports is perfect.
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    I expected this and I'm glad he's returning. I think when you have 3 bonafide superstars on the team that vouch for him and respect him during the prime of their careers, then you've got something special.

    Think of the fun we'll have with the line-ups next year, although I'm already anxiously penciling in 3-5.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
    Sometimes I think people forget that baseball is not football or basketball
    Oh damn. I confuse these all the time.
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    I'm happy about this. Leyland does some things that drive me crazy, but on balance he is a good manager.

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    The grass isn't always greener. Having watched the train wrecks in Boston and Miami this season things could be a lot worse. Leyland is far from perfect but baseball people consider him one of the best managers in baseball. I look forward to all the meltdowns in the game threads next season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    it has nothing to do with the actual players they've had to manage
    Looks like Yoda thinks this is the right move.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Oh damn. I confuse these all the time.
    That's unfair. You cut out the part where he explained what he meant by that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DET Mr Malefic View Post
    I'm not a Leyland guy, but I'm not a "Leyland has to go" guy either........I'm mostly agnostic to the issue.

    That said, some of the stuff in this thread written in service of the pro-Leyland argument is........not good........in particular the bit about "most post-season appearances by any Tigers manager". Seriously?

    Most Tigers managers managed during a time when two teams made the post-season, and a very large minority of Tigers managers managed during a time when four teams made the post-season (well actually a large minority of seasons happened under these rules....not necessarily managers, as the Tigers had few managers during this era). It is but a small number of a Tigers managers who have managed during a time when 8 or 10 teams made the post-season. If 8 or 10 teams would've qualified for the post-season in the 80s the Tigers would've been near perennial entrants. 1961 immediately comes to mind as another year that the Tigers would have easily qualified for the playoffs if 8 or 10 teams qualified. I have no desire at this time to go year-by-year to see just how many extra post-seasons they would've participated in, but logic dictates it would probably be a number that is significant to the point here. Twice during the 80s the Tigers had the best record in the entire major leagues, something that STILL has not happened since 1987.

    It's not Leyland's fault that the rules are different and worse since he took over the Tigers, and he doesn't lose credit for managing to those post-seasons, but you can't throw down the "Most Post seasons EVER!!!!" gauntlet and then walk away as if that argument speaks for itself, because it really doesn't. It only speaks for the fact that Leyland has been more successful than Trammell/Garner/Pujols/Bell, it doesn't even really begin the case for much else than that.
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    I'm glad he's coming back, because I think it's rare that a manager understands his job is not just X's & O's or knowing when to bunt & when to swing away, but knowing your people, believing in your people, and understanding their egos.
    2014 AAT:Daniel Fields All-Time AAT: Charlie Maxwell
    If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball & saving an infant’s life, she'll choose to save the infant without even considering if there are men on base. ~ Dave Barry

  39. #39
    tiger337's Avatar
    tiger337 is online now MotownSports Writer
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    I would have been OK if they got a new manager, but I am happy he is back. I don't like some of his on-field decisions, but he seems to be very good at the off-field managing which is what matters most in baseball. I disliked it when some suggested he was a senile old man who had lost the team.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  40. #40
    ROMAD1's Avatar
    ROMAD1 is online now MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Oh damn. I confuse these all the time.




    I've always been annoyed by Carlin's annointing of football as the superior sport but...
    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

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