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  1. #1
    KleShreen is offline Banned
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    Default 2012 Awards Round-Up




    Figured there should be a thread to keep track of all the award accolades various Tigers will be gathering in the coming weeks. The Gold Glove finalists were announced recently. Avila and Jackson were both named finalists. The first "prediction" for the award I've seen comes from this guy:

    Predicting the Winners: 2012 Gold Gloves « Three Up, Three Down

    He seems to think that Avila should get the nod as the AL Catcher and he admits that Jackson *should* win the AL Center Field GG but that the Mike Trout hype-machine will give it to Trout instead.

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    They give the OF Gold Gloves positionally? I thought they just gave it to three OFs, regardless of position?
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    Quote Originally Posted by catswithbats View Post
    They give the OF Gold Gloves positionally? I thought they just gave it to three OFs, regardless of position?
    You are correct.

    I can't wait to see who wins the GG for #3 starting pitchers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by catswithbats View Post
    They give the OF Gold Gloves positionally? I thought they just gave it to three OFs, regardless of position?
    According to Rawlings which gives out the Award, they do it by position. Maybe they changed it this year.
    Rawlings - Rawlings Gold Glove Announcement Show
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

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    I think Weiters should defintely win the award. Among all the catchers who played at least half their team's games, he led in CS% and runs saved (based on stolen bases, caught stealing, passed balled, wild pitches, errors). He also is the clear leader on the Fan Scouting Report. Avila is a good defender, but I don't think he is in the same category as Weiters. Pierzynski is a ridiculous finalist.

    Center field should go to either Trout or Jackson. I'm picking Jackson because Trout split time in CF and LF. Either one would be OK though.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    I think Weiters should defintely win the award. Among all the catchers who played at least half their team's games, he led in CS% and runs saved (based on stolen bases, caught stealing, passed balled, wild pitches, errors). He also is the clear leader on the Fan Scouting Report. Avila is a good defender, but I don't think he is in the same category as Weiters. Pierzynski is a ridiculous finalist.

    Center field should go to either Trout or Jackson. I'm picking Jackson because Trout split time in CF and LF. Either one would be OK though.
    Trout will win because he is a better hitter. It's a silly award sometimes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics View Post
    Trout will win because he is a better hitter. It's a silly award sometimes.
    I know hitting is one of the criteria, but Jackson hits well enough to get the award. I think the only ones that get overlooked are defensive specialists that can't hit at all.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

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    100 percent sure it's Wieters. Also, there's a lot of debate here on Trout vs. Jackson, but Adam Jones won it.

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    Alex Avila is not winning at catcher. Neither is Jackson. Trout will win it hands down. We will be lucky if Cabrera somehow steals MVP from the guy, because there is a huge lovefest for Trout. Always has been about rookies that play on the coast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by froggyvk View Post
    100 percent sure it's Wieters. Also, there's a lot of debate here on Trout vs. Jackson, but Adam Jones won it.
    You were correct on both counts.

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    So, the least deserving finalist in CF won the Gold Glove. Not exactly unexpected.
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    My god, Adam Jones. Seriously. I know Orioles fans who can't believe he was even nominated....

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    Orioles fans participating in the Fan Scouting Report didn't give Jones especially high scores:

    2012 Scouting Report - By the Fans, For the Fans
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

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    What the hell are these voters thinking?
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    How does Adam Jones win this over Jackson and Trout? That's why this is the worst award in baseball. Seems they never get the winners right and base it way to much on offense.
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    Upcoming dates:

    November 12 - AL and NL Jackie Robinson Rookie of the Year Awards announced

    November 13 - AL and NL Managers of the Year announced

    November 14 - AL and NL Cy Young Award winners announced

    November 15 - AL and NL Most Valuable Players announced

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    The managers and coaches vote for the GG awards, so we can't blame the beat writers for it. I remember one year Leyland said that hitting was a criterion. He admitted that it didn't make a lot a sense but that's just the way it is. The reasoning might be that they like to reward two-way players. Of course, there is no better two way player than Trout and Jackson is very good too, so that doesn't explain the vote here.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

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    This might be the worst GG that I can remember, considering the seasons Trout and Jackson had. Ridiculous.
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    There have been a lot worse ones like giving Palmeiro a gold glove when he was a DH in 1999. Jeter winning five gold gloves is also ridiculous.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    There have been a lot worse ones like giving Palmeiro a gold glove when he was a DH in 1999. Jeter winning five gold gloves is also ridiculous.
    Palmeiro was ridiculous, I can understand Jeter though. He's the biggest "name" at SS. That isn't the case for Young. That isn't the case with Jones.
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    Other than Jones, it looks like they did a pretty good job with the Gold Glove awards this year. Nothing too outrageous. It's hard to get a handle on Jones' defense since he is all over the place statistically - Total Zone and FRAA rate him as good whereas DRS, UZR rate him as bad. Maybe Jones is better than we think, but if Orioles fans don't rank him high, that says something.
    Lee Panas
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Maybe Jones is better than we think, but if Orioles fans don't rank him high, that says something.
    They may have him under a microscope that is too powerful and too emotional, though... I know that we ask whether or not someone passes the eye test when we decide if they are a good defender and I think that's valid to certain extent, but you know...

    Then again, Gold Gloves are ridiculous.
    I love the Detroit Tigers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by junkballer View Post
    They may have him under a microscope that is too powerful and too emotional, though... I know that we ask whether or not someone passes the eye test when we decide if they are a good defender and I think that's valid to certain extent, but you know...

    Then again, Gold Gloves are ridiculous.
    Fans typically overrate their own players though.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by junkballer View Post
    They may have him under a microscope that is too powerful and too emotional, though... I know that we ask whether or not someone passes the eye test when we decide if they are a good defender and I think that's valid to certain extent, but you know...

    Then again, Gold Gloves are ridiculous.
    The Fan Scouting Report definitely has limitations. However, I think if someone is a great outfielder, the local fan emotions would tend to go in the direction of overrating rather than underrating. If someone is a bad outfielder, I would expect some fans might let their emotions rate him worse than he is. So, if a player really is Gold Glove quality, I would think it would show up in the aggregate vote.

    The one concern I have about the Fan Scouting report is that some fans might let the statistics influence their judgement even though they are instructed to use their eyes. I have a good idea of what kinds of fans rate Tigers players and I think most of them are trying to use observation as intended, but I can't speak for fans of other teams.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Fans typically overrate their own players though.
    yeah, I think they overrate the good ones and underrate the bad ones.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    yeah, I think they overrate the good ones and underrate the bad ones.
    Raburn is a good example of that.
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    Default Fan bias...

    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    yeah, I think they overrate the good ones and underrate the bad ones.
    Yeah, that makes the most sense. I was just thinking about the way that hardcore fans tend to expect too much out of the players of their own teams. Sometimes it seems like the better the players play, the more they are expected to be absolutely perfect players. That goes double for playoff teams. With the Orioles in the race this year, I had this image of their die-hards getting spoiled by watching Adam Jones make so many great plays and thus they would come to expect those plays to be made every time by the end of the year.
    I love the Detroit Tigers.

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    MLB Network ‏@MLBNetwork
    The first-ever Wilson Defensive Player of the Year Awards will be announced on @MLBNetwork 11/4 at 8pE. @wilsonballglove


    Yayyy... good luck Adam Jones!
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    *I will update this post here when awards are announced**

    Hank Aaron Award
    American League
    Miguel Cabrera
    National League

    Buster Posey

    Comeback Players
    American League
    Fernando Rodney
    National League
    Buster Posey

    Clemente Award
    Clayton Kershaw

    Delivery Man of the Year
    Fernando Rodney

    Players Choice Awards
    Player of the Year:
    Miguel Cabrera, Tigers
    Marvin Miller Man of the Year:
    Chipper Jones, Braves
    Outstanding Player, AL:
    Miguel Cabrera, Tigers
    Outstanding Player, NL:
    Andrew McCutchen, Pirates
    Outstanding Pitcher, AL:
    David Price, Rays
    Outstanding Pitcher, NL:
    R.A. Dickey, Mets
    Outstanding Rookie, AL:
    Mike Trout, Angels
    Outstanding Rookie, NL:
    Todd Frazier, Reds
    Comeback Player, AL:
    Adam Dunn, White Sox
    Comeback Player, NL:
    Buster Posey, Giants

    Wilson Defensive Players of the Year
    AL East
    BAL: J.J. Hardy, SS
    BOS: Dustin Pedroia, 2B
    NYY: Robinson Cano, 2B
    TB: Jose Molina, C
    TOR: Brett Lawrie, 3B
    AL Central
    CWS: Alexei Ramirez, SS
    CLE: Jason Kipnis, 2B
    DET: Austin Jackson, CF
    KC: Lorenzo Cain, CF
    MIN: Denard Span, CF
    AL West
    LAA: Mike Trout, CF
    OAK: Josh Reddick, RF
    SEA: Brendan Ryan, SS
    TEX: Adrian Beltre, 3B
    NL East
    ATL: Michael Bourn, CF
    MIA: Giancarlo Stanton, RF
    NYM: David Wright, 3B
    PHI: Carlos Ruiz, C
    WAS: Adam LaRoche, 1B
    NL Central
    CHC: Darwin Barney, 2B
    CIN: Brandon Phillips, 2B
    HOU: Justin Maxwell, CF
    MIL: Carlos Gomez, CF
    PIT: Andrew McCutchen, CF
    STL: Yadier Molina, C
    NL West
    ARI: Aaron Hill, 2B
    COL: Carlos Gonzalez, LF
    LAD: Matt Kemp, CF
    SD: Chase Headley, 3B
    SF: Brandon Crawford, SS


    Rawlings Gold Glove
    American League
    C: Matt Wieters, BAL
    1B: Mark Teixeira, NYY
    2B: Robinson Cano, NYY
    3B: Adrian Beltre, TEX
    SS: J.J. Hardy, BAL
    LF: Alex Gordon, KC
    CF: Adam Jones, BAL
    RF: Josh Reddick, OAK
    P: Jeremy Hellickson, TB
    P: Jake Peavy, CWS
    National League
    C: Yadier Molina, STL
    1B: Adam LaRoche, WAS
    2B: Darwin Barney, CHC
    3B: Chase Headley, SD
    SS: Jimmy Rollins, PHI
    LF: Carlos Gonzalez, COL
    CF: Andrew McCutchen, PIT
    RF: Jason Heyward, ATL
    P: Mark Buehrle, MIA

    Louisville Silver Slugger
    American League
    C: A.J. Pierzynski
    1B: Prince Fielder
    2B: Robinson Cano
    3B: Miguel Cabrera
    SS: Derek Jeter
    OF: Mike Trout
    OF: Josh Willingham
    OF: Josh Hamilton
    DH: Billy Butler
    National League
    C: Buster Posey
    1B: Adam LaRoche
    2B: Aaron Hill
    3B: Chase Headley
    SS: Ian Desmond
    OF: Andrew McCutchen
    OF: Jay Bruce
    OF: Ryan Braun
    P: Stephen Strasburg

    Manager of the Year
    American League
    Bob Melvin - OAK
    National League
    Davey Johnson - WAS

    Rookie of the Year
    American League
    Mike Trout - LAA
    National League
    Bryce Harper - WAS

    Cy Young Award
    American League
    David Price - TB
    National League
    R.A. Dickey - NYM

    MVP Award
    American League
    Miguel Cabrera
    National League
    Buster Posey
    Last edited by KCFITZ78; 11-16-2012 at 01:42 PM.

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    I update my previous post with Silver Slugger Awards

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    Laroche over Votto?

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    File this under Things I Learned today:

    Trout also became the youngest winner of the AL award. The previous youngest was the 1978 winner, Detroit Tigers second baseman Lou Whitaker, who was two months and 26 days older than Trout. The youngest winner overall was New York Mets pitcher Dwight Gooden, the NL recipient in 1984 at the age of 19.
    1) I didn't know Lou was the youngest previous AL winner.
    2) I'd forgotten just how young he was when he came up.
    Last edited by TigersSlappy; 11-12-2012 at 07:43 PM.
    2014AAT-Buck Farmer 2013AAT-Mr Ilitch 2013 AAL-Nick Fairley 2012AAL-Willie Young 2012AAT-Dixon Machado 2011AAL-Tom "Killer" Kowalski 2011AAT-Heather Nabozny 2010AAT-Phil Coke 2008&2007AAT-Sergio Collado
    2007AT-AAT-Alan Trammell

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    Bryce Harper, Mike Trout...best joint rookie of the years ever?
    AAT 2013- SP D. Below 2012- RP R. Weinhardt 2011- CF A. Jackson 2010- SP D. Below 2009- INF Justin Henry 2008- RP Jeremy Johnson
    AAL TE Joe "Happy Feet" Fauria

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    Quote Originally Posted by vannzee View Post
    Bryce Harper, Mike Trout...best joint rookie of the years ever?
    Some pretty good pairs here, let's see how their careers play out before anointing them best ever:

    1956 Frank Robinson and Louis Aparicio
    1964 Dick Allen and Tony Oliva
    1967 Tom Seaver and Rod Carew
    1977 Andre Dawson and Eddie Murray
    2001 Albert Pujols and Ichiro Suzuki

    Of That list right now I'd take Seaver & Carew.

    As a side note in 1951 Willie Mays was NL ROY, and a guy named Mantle broke in with the Yankees that year but with only 96 games played didn't win ROY. Had Mantle won that wouldn't be a bad pairing either.
    Last edited by TigersSlappy; 11-13-2012 at 08:48 AM.
    2014AAT-Buck Farmer 2013AAT-Mr Ilitch 2013 AAL-Nick Fairley 2012AAL-Willie Young 2012AAT-Dixon Machado 2011AAL-Tom "Killer" Kowalski 2011AAT-Heather Nabozny 2010AAT-Phil Coke 2008&2007AAT-Sergio Collado
    2007AT-AAT-Alan Trammell

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    Ill go with Pujols and Ichiro. Ichiro won the MVP and Pujols should have, but he's got a few by now.

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    Finalist for AL Manager of the year are:

    Showalter, Melvin, Ventura.

    The first two are the obvious choices and almost certainly one or the other will win it. But I'm not sure if I agree that Ventura should be the number three guy. One of the local radio heads this morning was talking about Leyland being the number three guy. I very much disagree with that, but his point was that at the end of the year, the Tigers didn't collapse... the White Sox did. Does Ventura even deserve to be in the discussion then?

    The more I thought about it, the more it made me think... in the AL, who is deserving of the #3 spot?

    First, we can eliminate the obvious names: Valintine in Boston (no explanation needed), Farrell in Toronto finished just 73-89. Cleveland, Minny, and KC all finished poorly, as did Seattle.

    That leaves NY, Detroit, Chicago, Tampa Bay, Texas, and LA.

    I'd say that Leyland is out... the Tigers were a preseason favorite to go all the way and we just barely made it into the playoffs in the weakest division of baseball. A team that's got a legit Cy Young candidate and a legit MVP candidate shouldn't struggle to make it to the playoffs in the AL Central.

    I'd say you could rule Texas and LA out for similar reasons. Both had a decent lead on Oakland, but lost it late in the season.

    Chicago is a bit of a different animal... They certainly weren't favored over Detroit in the preseason, but at the same time I don't think anyone thought they would be a bad team either. So they over achieved to an extent. But similarly to Texas and LA, they had a team late in the season and coughed it up. I think this eliminates Ventura.

    By process of elimination, I think Girardi gets the third slot. It's not that the Yankess had a super fantastic year by their standards, but they did win the East.

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    Surprised by how little interest the board is giving to the awards this year.

    Anyhow, the Cy Young award will be announced in a few hours. I think JV and Price each have a 50/50 shot.
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    I think we are all just waiting on the CY YOung and MVP votes so we can go crazy about them one way or the other.

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    I'll be stunned if JV wins it. I think Price's W-L record and the fact that Verlander won last year will be the deciding thing for the voters to award it to Price.

    I both fully expect and want Cabrera to win. I want to see the propellers spin in contempt.
    .

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    Stunned? It's not unheard of for a player to win multiple Cy Young Awards in a row. If anything, JV winning last year could help his cause. Reputation matters with these things.
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