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  1. #201
    tiger337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sports_Freak View Post
    It wasn't directed at you, just the point that some of the newer stats have so little meaning.

    A HR has much more meaning than a runner stealing a base.
    An RBI has much more meaning than a runner taking an extra base.

    Too many stats cause confusion and disagreements. I like the old time stats that everyone understands.
    A much better discussion is what would Miggy's numbers be if he played in a HR friendly park?
    50 home runs with 150 RBI? It's very possible. And there would still be a discussion about Trout's WAR?
    I mean, come on. Talk to 1000 casual baseball fans and the only thing they would know about WAR is they think it's some new stat that the internet world made up. (yeah, that does sound like Albom lol)

    Did Bill James invent it? Probably just wanting to show everyone how smart he thinks he is.

    But the bottom line is the baseball writers of America ignored it, totally pissing off the sabers. And that's my point, I'm tired of "discussing" which player is more valuable.
    They're both valuable to their team, play different positions and are totally different players.

    I will even go out on a limb and say, IN MY OPINION, Miggy isn't even the most valuable Tiger, at least every 5th day. That distinction belongs to JV.

    As for Trout? I really like the guy, not just the way he plays but also his humility. He was talking about what an honor it was to even be compared to a Cabrera. The kid has a lot of class and it's pretty refreshing in this day and age of these pampered athletes pounding their chests every chance they get.

    I really am done discussing this. Miggy is the 2012 MVP. End of story. If I rubbed you (or anyone else) the wrong way, I'm sorry. I respect your posts, even when I don't agree with them. I guess I just made the mistake of posting when I was in a really foul mood.
    You should probably get used to the stats because they are just going to become more prevalent. I don't know if you remember 10-15 years ago when people were making fun of "stat geeks" for using numbers like OPS and WHIP. People even hated a simple stat like OBP. Now those stats are all over the place. In due time, some of the newer stats like WAR will become more commonplace, at least on the internet.

    Bill James did not invent WAR. He works for the Boston Red Sox, so most of what he now does is proprietary. Tom Tango invented WAR, not because he wanted people to know how smart he is (that's a really silly criticism), but so he could understand the game and evaluate players better.

    It's a changing world. I don't like change either, but I survived the designated hitter, inter-league play and wildcards. People will survive the changing stat scene too.
    Last edited by tiger337; 11-16-2012 at 09:40 PM.
    Lee Panas
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  2. #202
    will the thrill is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sports_Freak View Post
    Too many stats cause confusion and disagreements. I like the old time stats that everyone understands.
    A much better discussion is what would Miggy's numbers be if he played in a HR friendly park?
    50 home runs with 150 RBI? It's very possible.

    Comerica Park Factors for HR 1.026 Anaheim .759

    Trout HR Home/Road 16/14

    Cabrera HR Home/Road 28/16

    Taking Park Factor Into Effect, if you swapped their parks for their home totals

    Trout 21.6 (16*1.026/.759) + 14 = 35.6
    Cabrera 20.7 (28*.759/1.026) + 16 = 36.7

    To answer your question the top 5 hr parks avg factor is 1.4758

    So Cabrera would get to 40.2 (28*1.4758/1.026) + 16 = 56.2

    Of course this just takes into effect the HRs they hit, not PA, distance of hits etc.. and is in no way scientific, but shows what could be in the right scenario.
    Put me on record. Prince Fielder will still OPS 850+ in years 7-8-9 of this contract. (sucks that my signature has to stay this for 7 years now)

  3. #203
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    It's kinda cute how some people are so threatened by sabermetrics.
    2003 Tigers = 2010 Tigers
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  4. #204
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    This is an article from 7 years ago about Ivy league guys in MLB front offices. The Tigers guy is Mike Smith, our current director of Baseball Operations.

    A Thinking Man's Game | Sports | The Harvard Crimson
    Last edited by Scottwood; 11-16-2012 at 10:56 PM.
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  5. #205
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    Interesting. I once had an e-mail communication with Smith, but didn't know he was a stat guy. I was trying to ask DD a question and he referred the question to Smith.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  6. #206
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    I didn't realize he was that high up in the organization. A Director of Baseball Operations is only a few positions from the GM; so he'd be one of DD's main guys to turn to in the front office.
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  7. #207
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    James Schmehl ‏@jamesschmehl
    Quintin Berry was named #Tigers' Rookie of the Year by Detroit Sports Broadcasters Association. My vote went to Drew Smyly. Both deserving.
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigersSlappy View Post
    James Schmehl ‏@jamesschmehl
    Quintin Berry was named #Tigers' Rookie of the Year by Detroit Sports Broadcasters Association. My vote went to Drew Smyly. Both deserving.
    Berry was really a cool story for a while by Drew Smyly had a far better year overall, and was very critical to holding the rotation together early when Fister was out, and Smyly was excellent in the post-season. I would have preferred Smyly.
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  9. #209
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    Yeah, that's ridiculous.
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  10. #210
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    Smyly had a bigger fWAR,but Berry has intangibles that you just can't teach. His inspirational clapping is worth two wins by itself.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  11. #211
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    *THUNDER CLAP*
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  12. #212
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    Berry steals bases. That's the true mark of a great player.
    AAL: Ndamukong Suh | AAW: Nicklas Lidström | AAT: Anthony Castro

  13. #213
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    Berry led the Tigers in percentage of runners on third base driven in. He is clutch. Indispensable.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Berry led the Tigers in percentage of runners on third base driven in. He is clutch. Indispensable.
    He walked sometimes too.
    AAL: Ndamukong Suh | AAW: Nicklas Lidström | AAT: Anthony Castro

  15. #215
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    But was generally pretty worthless, save for his 30ish games.
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  16. #216
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    Seriously, Berry did more than I ever expected, but Smyly was essential filling in when Fister was hurt.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Seriously, Berry did more than I ever expected, but Smyly was essential filling in when Fister was hurt.
    Short term (this year) I suppose you could make an argument for Berry but value wise it isn't even close.
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  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vonlenska View Post
    It's kinda cute how some people are so threatened by sabermetrics.
    I agree. Some people act like sabermetric stats are trampling on their cherished childhood memories or something.

    I'm pretty glad I avoided this thread during the award season, or else my brain would have exploded.
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  19. #219
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