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  1. #2081
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    Quote Originally Posted by TStar View Post
    That KC trade is almost as bad as Randy Smith's Juan Gonzalez one.
    I don't think that was a great trade for the Tigers, but it didn't turn out particularly bad. We lost a few years of Catalantto and Cordero, for one-year of JuanGone and a few good years from Patterson.

    This could just as easily be something closer to the Cabrera trade, than the JuanGone trade. We just don't know at this point.
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  2. #2082
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    To be comparible with the Cabrera deal, I think it means the Royals have to extend Shields and have him more than 2 years. Not sure I see that happening.

  3. #2083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    To be comparible with the Cabrera deal, I think it means the Royals have to extend Shields and have him more than 2 years. Not sure I see that happening.
    Not really, because that wasn't part of the trade.
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  4. #2084
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    For it to be comparable to the Cabrera deal, shields would have to be a future hall of famer in his mid twenties, sign an extension prior tithe start of this season ( which is certainly part of the calculus; Cabrera was never going to hit the market after being traded from Florida), and Davis would have to completely forget how to pitch yet inexplicably be given a large amount of starts.

    Oh, and Myers, odorizzi, et al. Would all have to amount to nothing, which seems highly unlikely given myers's performance in the high minors that maybin had never shown.
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  5. #2085
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Not really, because that wasn't part of the trade.
    It gave the Tigers exclusive negotiating rights with Cabrera, which they exercised.

    I would say that for the Shields trade to have similar impact on the Royals as the Cabrera deal did for Detroit, the Royals will have to exercise that right as well.

  6. #2086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelton View Post
    For it to be comparable to the Cabrera deal, shields would have to be a future hall of famer in his mid twenties, sign an extension prior tithe start of this season ( which is certainly part of the calculus; Cabrera was never going to hit the market after being traded from Florida), and Davis would have to completely forget how to pitch yet inexplicably be given a large amount of starts.

    Oh, and Myers, odorizzi, et al. Would all have to amount to nothing, which seems highly unlikely given myers's performance in the high minors that maybin had never shown.
    No that's not part of the calculus. If it was, a lot more trade would happen, and I'm sure we thought we were signing JuanGone to a huge extension as well, but it turns out he didn't want to sign with us. That stuff is all post-trade, and not really a consideration of the trade itself, other than at team knows they will (or won't) make an effort to sign a player to an extension.
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  7. #2087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    It gave the Tigers exclusive negotiating rights with Cabrera, which they exercised.

    I would say that for the Shields trade to have similar impact on the Royals as the Cabrera deal did for Detroit, the Royals will have to exercise that right as well.
    We had exlcusive negotiating rights to JuanGone which we exercised too. And he didn't sign with us despite the huge contract offer (which turned out to be a good thing, but fans were pissed at the time, if you recall). The point is, it's not a part of the trade.
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  8. #2088
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    We had exlcusive negotiating rights to JuanGone which we exercised too. And he didn't sign with us despite the huge contract offer (which turned out to be a good thing, but fans were pissed at the time, if you recall). The point is, it's not a part of the trade.
    What is your point about the deal being closer to the Cabrera deal than the Gonzalez deal, if all we are looking at is a couple years?

  9. #2089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    What is your point about the deal being closer to the Cabrera deal than the Gonzalez deal, if all we are looking at is a couple years?
    The point is exactly what I originally stated:

    This could just as easily be something closer to the Cabrera trade, than the JuanGone trade. We just don't know at this point.
    We don't know if this is like the JuanGone trade, which was perceived to be a bad trade of prospects for major league players. Or it could be more like the Cabrera trade, which was perceived to be a good trade of prospects for major league players. The trade could go in either direction, and we won't know until a couple of years down the road.
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  10. #2090
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    We don't know if this is like the JuanGone trade, which was perceived to be a bad trade of prospects for major league players. Or it could be more like the Cabrera trade, which was perceived to be a good trade of prospects for major league players. The trade could go in either direction, and we won't know until a couple of years down the road.
    I don't think anyone argues that we don't know for certain what the future holds. All we can do is take the available information and form an opinion based on what is known today.

    I think it is a lousy trade, but concede the possibility exists that Kansas City has made what will be considered a great trade in retrospect.
    Last edited by Mr. Bigglesworth; 12-10-2012 at 05:05 PM.

  11. #2091
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    If Cabrera had left Detroit as a free agent without them ever having made the playoffs with him on the team would we all be going 'oh man that was an awesome trade, thank god we had the 2008 Detroit Tigers season! Yeah!'?
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  12. #2092
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    I don't think anyone argues that we don't know for certain what the future holds. ....

    I don't think anyone argues that we don't know for certain what the future holds. .

    I don't think anyone argues that we know for certain what the future holds. .

    Kewl,

    Biggs, you just coined a 'flammable'/'inflammable' phrase where the meaning is the same with or without one of the negations. Those amuse me.....

    ...now back to your regularly scheduled programming...
    Last edited by Gehringer_2; 12-10-2012 at 05:18 PM.
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  13. #2093
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    No that's not part of the calculus. If it was, a lot more trade would happen, and I'm sure we thought we were signing JuanGone to a huge extension as well, but it turns out he didn't want to sign with us. That stuff is all post-trade, and not really a consideration of the trade itself, other than at team knows they will (or won't) make an effort to sign a player to an extension.
    You're using hindsight to provide an example of how the trade could turn out, so the fact they were able to sign a member of the trade to an extension ahead of free agency is just as much a factor as the performance of the players involved. Signing him was an unknown, as was the performance of everyone involved in that trade.
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  14. #2094
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    I don't think anyone argues that we don't know for certain what the future holds. .

    I don't think anyone argues that we know for certain what the future holds. .

    Kewl,

    Biggs, you just coined a 'flammable'/'inflammable' phrase where the meaning is the same with or without one of the negations. Those amuse me.....

    ...now back to your regularly scheduled programming...
    I'm missing it. The first sentence seems to imply the opposite of what Biggs meant?
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  15. #2095
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    Knobler with the latest on Anibal...

    The Dodgers have seemed to be the one team that could be willing to meet Sanchez's asking price (said to be as much as $90 million). The Red Sox and Royals were scared off by the high price, and the Rangers so far haven't shown interest (although they might).

    The Tigers would still like to re-sign Sanchez, who pitched well for them after coming over in a July trade with the Mariners. But the Tigers have also made it clear that they don't plan to come anywhere close to Sanchez's asking price.

    If no one else does, either, Sanchez would most likely return to the Tigers.
    Who's next for big-spending Dodgers? Could be Youk or Anibal - CBSSports.com

  16. #2096
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino View Post
    I'm missing it. The first sentence seems to imply the opposite of what Biggs meant?


    The meaning of the word "argue" is shifting. In the first case - Bigg's actual line - he is using 'argue' in the sense of "I won't argue that point" or "nobody disagrees with the statement that X" - where X is "we don't know for certain what the future holds". In the second line, where I drop the 'will not', 'argue' is used in the sense of 'make the case for'. "I won't make a case that we know X" - where X is "we know for certain what the future holds.

    So the semantics of the word 'argue' shifts between the two sentences in such a way that the meaning stays the same with or without the negation. English never lacks for examples of the strange....
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  17. #2097
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    Quote Originally Posted by irvink View Post
    If the Dodgers are really intent on spending more money, it's hard to see them spending on Sanchez. They already have 7 SP on their roster. Greinke, Kershaw, Ryu, Billingsley, Beckett, Harang, Capuano. Why they would need 8, I don't know. Especially when they still have holes at 3B and 2B. I could see them being a player for Cano next year, but for now, Youkilis makes a lot of sense.

    The Angels are a far bigger threat to sign Sanchez. After Weaver and Wilson, the rest of their rotation is mainly question marks. I wouldn't count the Rangers out, either, but I think the Rangers are more likely to try and trade for Dickey.

    The only thing I see in our favor is that the Rangers and Angels have aging rosters. Young was dealt and Kinsler/Beltre/Cruz are starting to get old...I can see why they want to trade for Upton. If they get that deal done, it makes more sense to acquire Sanchez and build around an Andrus/Upton/Harrison extension plus Profar/Darvish/Olt, etc. If they can't get Upton, it may make more sense to go all in for the next year or two and just re-sign Hamilton and go for it while Kinsler/Beltre/Cruz still have something left in the tank.

    It's hard to see where the Angels are going. They have Trout, Pujols, Weaver, and then a bunch of mediocre players that don't promise to have much value a few years from now. Would paying Sanchez even be worth it for them? It might be if they want to try and win something before Pujols starts (continues?) his age-based decline. It's important to note that the Pujols/Wilson/Weaver contracts are all significantly backloaded, and Trout will get very expensive in arbitration fast. Those four guys will eat up about $100MM in payroll, and they don't have a lot of extra support waiting in the wings. But the way they're constructed, it makes more sense to sign a 2-year stopgap rather than spend lavishly on Sanchez.
    Last edited by TheCouga; 12-10-2012 at 07:03 PM.
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  18. #2098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    I don't think anyone argues that we don't know for certain what the future holds. .

    I don't think anyone argues that we know for certain what the future holds. .

    Kewl,

    Biggs, you just coined a 'flammable'/'inflammable' phrase where the meaning is the same with or without one of the negations. Those amuse me.....

    ...now back to your regularly scheduled programming...
    Perfect comparison/analogy/exemplification/..... Symbolization characterized by the relation between a sample and what it refers to, at it's best! Gotta luv it.
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  19. #2099
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    If the Dodgers are really intent on spending more money, it's hard to see them spending on Sanchez. They already have 7 SP on their roster. Greinke, Kershaw, Ryu, Billingsley, Beckett, Harang, Capuano. Why they would need 8, I don't know. Especially when they still have holes at 3B and 2B. I could see them being a player for Cano next year, but for now, Youkilis makes a lot of sense.

    The Angels are a far bigger threat to sign Sanchez. After Weaver and Wilson, the rest of their rotation is mainly question marks. I wouldn't count the Rangers out, either, but I think the Rangers are more likely to try and trade for Dickey.

    The only thing I see in our favor is that the Rangers and Angels have aging rosters. Young was dealt and Kinsler/Beltre/Cruz are starting to get old...I can see why they want to trade for Upton. If they get that deal done, it makes more sense to acquire Sanchez and build around an Andrus/Upton/Harrison extension plus Profar/Darvish/Olt, etc. If they can't get Upton, it may make more sense to go all in for the next year or two and just re-sign Hamilton and go for it while Kinsler/Beltre/Cruz still have something left in the tank.

    It's hard to see where the Angels are going. They have Trout, Pujols, Weaver, and then a bunch of mediocre players that don't promise to have much value a few years from now. Would paying Sanchez even be worth it for them? It might be if they want to try and win something before Pujols starts (continues?) his age-based decline. It's important to note that the Pujols/Wilson/Weaver contracts are all significantly backloaded, and Trout will get very expensive in arbitration fast. Those four guys will eat up about $100MM in payroll, and they don't have a lot of extra support waiting in the wings. But the way they're constructed, it makes more sense to sign a 2-year stopgap rather than spend lavishly on Sanchez.
    Counting Lily, the Dodgers already have 8 SPs. I agree that Anibal makes little sense for them.

    I also agree that the Angels are the team that probably need him the most, but based on their other moves this offseason, I have to wonder if their owner will greenlight the necessary funds to make Sanchez happen.

  20. #2100
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    If the Dodgers are really intent on spending more money, it's hard to see them spending on Sanchez. They already have 7 SP on their roster. Greinke, Kershaw, Ryu, Billingsley, Beckett, Harang, Capuano. Why they would need 8, I don't know. Especially when they still have holes at 3B and 2B. I could see them being a player for Cano next year, but for now, Youkilis makes a lot of sense.

    The Angels are a far bigger threat to sign Sanchez. After Weaver and Wilson, the rest of their rotation is mainly question marks. I wouldn't count the Rangers out, either, but I think the Rangers are more likely to try and trade for Dickey.

    The only thing I see in our favor is that the Rangers and Angels have aging rosters. Young was dealt and Kinsler/Beltre/Cruz are starting to get old...I can see why they want to trade for Upton. If they get that deal done, it makes more sense to acquire Sanchez and build around an Andrus/Upton/Harrison extension plus Profar/Darvish/Olt, etc. If they can't get Upton, it may make more sense to go all in for the next year or two and just re-sign Hamilton and go for it while Kinsler/Beltre/Cruz still have something left in the tank.

    It's hard to see where the Angels are going. They have Trout, Pujols, Weaver, and then a bunch of mediocre players that don't promise to have much value a few years from now. Would paying Sanchez even be worth it for them? It might be if they want to try and win something before Pujols starts (continues?) his age-based decline. It's important to note that the Pujols/Wilson/Weaver contracts are all significantly backloaded, and Trout will get very expensive in arbitration fast. Those four guys will eat up about $100MM in payroll, and they don't have a lot of extra support waiting in the wings. But the way they're constructed, it makes more sense to sign a 2-year stopgap rather than spend lavishly on Sanchez.
    The problem is a two year stop gap is going to be a 4 or 5 starter while Sanchez has a good chance to be better than that. If Sanchez goes to the Angels or Rangers, I think that is a huge blow to the Tigers. The Tigers are still weak on defense and the bullpen at this point is shaping up to be a weakness as well IMO. In addition, we are probably going to hit into a crapload of double plays next year. But if we resign Sanchez, I think we have the edge on the other AL contenders. If we lose him, especially to the Angels, then we lose our starting pitching advantage...which was the heart of our playoff push last year.

  21. #2101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hart View Post
    The problem is a two year stop gap is going to be a 4 or 5 starter while Sanchez has a good chance to be better than that. If Sanchez goes to the Angels or Rangers, I think that is a huge blow to the Tigers. The Tigers are still weak on defense and the bullpen at this point is shaping up to be a weakness as well IMO. In addition, we are probably going to hit into a crapload of double plays next year. But if we resign Sanchez, I think we have the edge on the other AL contenders. If we lose him, especially to the Angels, then we lose our starting pitching advantage...which was the heart of our playoff push last year.
    I actually think our bullpen looks pretty good, and our OF defense will be pretty good as well. Infante at 2B is a significant improvement over last year. Even without Sanchez, 90 wins is probably doable. Our offense will be significantly better as well.

    Winging it this year and then signing either Johnson or Garza next year might be a better idea. Unless of course we can, in fact, get Anibal for a fair price.
    Last edited by TheCouga; 12-10-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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  22. #2102
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    I actually think our bullpen looks pretty good, and our OF defense will be pretty good as well. Infante at 2B is a significant improvement over last year. Even without Sanchez, 90 wins is probably doable. Our offense will be significantly better as well.

    Winging it this year and then signing either Johnson or Garza next year might be a better idea. Unless of course we can, in fact, get Anibal for a fair price.
    The starting 8 in the field are better this year. The big difference to me is that last year I felt we had a lot of emergency pitching depth with Turner, Crosby and Olliver. If we don't sign Sanchez, going into this year that is down to basically Crosby, Adam Wilk and Zach Miner(?) Now as it turned out, we didn't use any innings from that Toledo crew last year, other than the three - "this is the MLB kid" starts for Turner which we could have done without anyway, so it didn't matter. But one year, sooner or later, it will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    The starting 8 in the field are better this year. The big difference to me is that last year I felt we had a lot of emergency pitching depth with Turner, Crosby and Olliver. If we don't sign Sanchez, going into this year that is down to basically Crosby, Adam Wilk and Zach Miner(?) Now as it turned out, we didn't use any innings from that Toledo crew last year, other than the three - "this is the MLB kid" starts for Turner which we could have done without anyway, so it didn't matter. But one year, sooner or later, it will.
    I may be in the minority but I'd include Belew in the emergency pitching depth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    The starting 8 in the field are better this year. The big difference to me is that last year I felt we had a lot of emergency pitching depth with Turner, Crosby and Olliver. If we don't sign Sanchez, going into this year that is down to basically Crosby, Adam Wilk and Zach Miner(?) Now as it turned out, we didn't use any innings from that Toledo crew last year, other than the three - "this is the MLB kid" starts for Turner which we could have done without anyway, so it didn't matter. But one year, sooner or later, it will.
    Zach Miner is gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gzbach View Post
    Zach Miner is gone.
    signed with the Phillies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Not really, because that wasn't part of the trade.
    Technically it isn't, and I know other people feel the same way you do in that regards but I side more with Biggs on this, and that is that it allows you time to exclusively negotiate with said player and/or make them feel comfortable in your environment. I would be willing to bet that if we never traded for Cabrera and just waited for him to go on the open market we either would've have been outbid or had to pay a helluva more for him than we did.(We probably would've had to go above and beyond like we did with Fielder to outbid everybody) Because at the time Cabrera would've been a FA the Yankees and Red Sox were spending money like crazy. THe Yankees went out and gave A-Rod the biggest contract in sports and signed the 3 top FAs of the 08 class(Sabathia, Tex, Burnett) to like half a billion dollars combined. You don't think they would have been all in on somebody the talent of Cabrera? Same thing with the Red Sox, they desperately were looking for somebody like Cabrera for years before finally getting the Padres to trade A-Gon to them for a boat load of prospects. If Cabrera would've been on the open market they would've been all over that. So I would say that there is a very real chance that Cabrera was never a Tiger long term if we didn't trade for him which is why I think that aspects of trade should be looked at.

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    Twins sign Correia for 2 years and 10M
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  29. #2109
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuNk42AE View Post
    Twins sign Correia for 2 years and 10M
    lol
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    Hey KC has good position players. Their rotation is now average. I think its a great trade for the Royals. I think they will now be a .500 club and probably give us fits.

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    I am anxious to see what the Twins end up with when they move Mauer, Morneau, and Willingham.
    I hate the Twins.

  32. #2112
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vonlenska View Post
    lol
    Correia's only a tick worse than Guthrie, who commanded 3/$25MM... for ages 34 through 36. If you have a giant hole in the back of your rotation and need someone to throw 150+ innings, you could do worse than Correia. Glad that's not the Tigers though, but it doesn't seem that long ago that we were in that position.
    Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.

  33. #2113
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    Post Winter meeting update:
    So as of Today, I would make the 25 man as:

    Position
    1-Avila
    2-Pena
    3-Fielder
    4-Infante
    5-Cabrera
    6-Peralta
    7-Worth
    8-Hunter
    9-Jackson
    10-Dirks
    11-Martinez
    12-Santiago (DFA if team not made)
    13-Berry

    Pitchers
    1-Verlander
    2-Scherzer
    3-Fister
    4-Smyly
    5-Porcello
    6-Benoit
    7-Dotel
    8-Coke
    9-Villareal
    10-Alburqurque
    11-Below
    12-Rondon

    ST Players fighting to displace one of the bench/BP spots. Unless noted those not making team go to/stay at Toledo.

    1-Boesch
    2-Kelly (if he signs MiLB contract before season)
    3-Kobernus
    4-Garcia
    5-Bonderman(?) (FA if team not made)
    5-Holaday
    6-Ramon Cabrera

    I think if the team above stays healthy - and Martinez is a major question mark - I would say this starting 25 is overall - better than last season's, and biggest wildcard player being - as he was last yr - Rick Porcello.
    I'm not sure how you can carry both Worth and Santiago. Berry is tough given that we should have a RHB to platoon with Dirks (even if not a straight platoon). I think you might have left off the Rule 5 pitcher we selected. If you sign Bonderman, almost certainly it's with the idea of starting off in Toledo (plus I believe he had TJ in April 2012, which means he's not likely to be game ready until May at the earliest).
    Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.

  34. #2114
    Gehringer_2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    ... I think you might have left off the Rule 5 pitcher we selected. .
    Yes - good catch forget the rule 5s (D'OH!)- who gets the bump? Has to be Villareal or Below. And I'll guess we keep the 3nd LHP. - and we won't carry Santiago and Worth, it will be Santiago and Kobernus.

    Probable roster update as of end of winter meetings

    Position
    1-Avila
    2-Pena
    3-Fielder
    4-Infante
    5-Cabrera
    6-Peralta
    7-Kobernus
    8-Hunter
    9-Jackson
    10-Dirks
    11-Martinez
    12-Santiago (DFA if team not made)
    13-Berry

    Pitchers
    1-Verlander
    2-Scherzer
    3-Fister
    4-Smyly
    5-Porcello
    6-Benoit
    7-Dotel
    8-Coke
    9-Lobstein
    10-Alburqurque
    11-Below
    12-Rondon

    ST Players fighting to displace one of the bench/BP spots. Unless noted those not making team go to/stay at Toledo.

    1-Boesch
    2-Kelly (if he signs MiLB contract before season)
    3-Villareal
    4-Garcia
    5-Bonderman(?) (FA if team not made)
    5-Holaday
    6-Ramon Cabrera
    7-Worth
    Last edited by Gehringer_2; 12-11-2012 at 12:38 PM.
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  35. #2115
    STLTiger69 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that Andy Dirks isn't really that much in need of a RH hitting platoon mate.

    For his career here is Dirks splits:

    I Split G PA AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP BAbip tOPS+
    vs RHP as LHB 146 465 429 126 30 5 10 50 26 79 .294 .338 .457 .795 196 5 .339 100
    vs LHP as LHB 67 114 104 30 1 0 5 13 8 10 .288 .345 .442 .787 46 2 .281 99


    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 12/11/2012.

    And this is Dirks 2012 splits;

    Split G PA AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB BAbip
    vs RHP as LHB 80 261 241 81 18 5 5 31 15 45 .336 .375 .515 .889 124 .394
    vs LHP as LHB 42 83 73 20 0 0 3 4 8 8 .274 .354 .397 .751 29 .274


    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 12/11/2012.


    Dirks splits are more prenounced in 2012, but I don't think left handed pitching is lethal Kryptonite to Dirks chances to simply be a full time starter.
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  36. #2116
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    ST Players fighting to displace one of the bench/BP spots. Unless noted those not making team go to/stay at Toledo.

    1-Boesch
    2-Kelly (if he signs MiLB contract before season)
    3-Villareal
    4-Garcia
    5-Bonderman(?) (FA if team not made)
    5-Holaday
    6-Ramon Cabrera
    7-Worth
    You might add the following pitchers as well, given they all saw time in the majors last year: Marte, Downs, Wilk, Putkonen, even Ortega, which would make me hurl.
    Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.

  37. #2117
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Dirks splits are more prenounced in 2012, but I don't think left handed pitching is lethal Kryptonite to Dirks chances to simply be a full time starter.
    114 career PA's against LHP isn't really enough to not carry a RHB compliment, just in case. It doesn't have to be a straight platoon, but you'd want some assurance in case that small sample size doesn't hold up.
    Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.

  38. #2118
    Gehringer_2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    ...


    Dirks splits are more prenounced in 2012, but I don't think left handed pitching is lethal Kryptonite to Dirks chances to simply be a full time starter.
    This is likely because JL did not protect Dirks from LHP as much as in '12 as in '11. see: 2012-13 Offseason Discussion
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  39. #2119
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    DKnobler ‏@DKnobler

    can confirm @Jim_Duquette report that Tigers were trying hard for Shields before he was traded to Royals.
    Wow, wonder what that would have been.
    VT B.R.B. "We only part to meet again"

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  40. #2120
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    DKnobler ‏@DKnobler
    can confirm @Jim_Duquette report that Tigers were trying hard for Shields before he was traded to Royals.
    2014AAT-Buck Farmer 2013AAT-Mr Ilitch 2013 AAL-Nick Fairley 2012AAL-Willie Young 2012AAT-Dixon Machado 2011AAL-Tom "Killer" Kowalski 2011AAT-Heather Nabozny 2010AAT-Phil Coke 2008&2007AAT-Sergio Collado
    2007AT-AAT-Alan Trammell

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