2012-13 Offseason Discussion

[PuNk42AE]

Tigers Pass in the Rule V

[TigersSlappy]

Tigers Pass in the Rule V

Red Sox made the pick for them, then a trade.

[redshark63]

Sort of a pass:

Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier Tigers will give Sox a non-roster player for Kobernus (drafted by the Sox). Not final who yet..

[PuNk42AE]

Jason Beck ‏@beckjason

Lefty pitcher out of Rays system. RT @JonathanMayoB3: Look for the Mets to trade Rule 5 pick Kyle Lobstein to the Tigers.

.

[PuNk42AE]

Jay Voss picked up by St. Louis

[redshark63]

Cool - 3 threads talking about the Rule V!!

[PuNk42AE]

Jason Beck ‏@beckjason

#Tigers lose another lefty, Efrain Nieves, in Rule 5.

Two lost in the AAA phase

[PuNk42AE]

Why do all the major networks, heads keep saying that everything in FA is being held up by two players? Sure we know that Greinke and Hamilton are the first Tier players and will get a ton, but there have already been a bunch of signings, including a lot of the second and third Tier players.

[Nastradamus]

Because a lot of things are waiting on those two. Lohse,Sanchez and Jackson probably won't sign until Greinke does. Upton probably won't be traded until Hamilton signs. Bourn probably won't sign until Hamilton does. Its not everything, but they are big dominoes as they say.

[Shelton]

Please stop calling it the rule "V."

[PuNk42AE]

Now we just wait for the Rule IV draft in June

[ballmich]

Please stop calling it the rule "V."

I thought all lawyers liked Latin given the basis of so much legalese in the language?

[TigersSlappy]

Jason Beck ‏@beckjason

Whoa. Another Tiger killer leaves the AL Central. RT @ToddZolecki: Sources: Phillies acquire Ben Revere from Twins. Sources: Phillies Acquire Revere « The Zo Zone …

[alwaysthrowheat]

What have you seen?

Sorry. I meant from what I've 'read'.

[PuNk42AE]

Jim Salisbury ‏@JSalisburyCSN

Vance Worley and Trevor May to Minn for Ben Revere. He will be Phils' CF.

Not a bad trade for the Twins

[alwaysthrowheat]

Joyce was a pretty highly regarded prospect that was consistently viewed as a platoon corner out fielder with some pop, on-base ability and good defense. He always had a Major League future.

Since the day he was drafted, Dirks was viewed as a fourth outfielder with lots of solid skills and no standout skills/tools. He's held true to that and has fulfilled (and some would argue) surpassed his projections. He always had a Major League future.

Wells is a different case. He floundered at first after coming out of a small school but was always on the radar because of defensive ability, power and a huge arm. They made some changes to his stance and hitting approach and he blossomed into a quality platoon outfielder. Once they made some changes to him, there was little doubt he was a big leaguer in waiting.

As for Guez, he's just about the very definition of an org player. He's a grinder with great makeup and just enough tools/skills to compete in the upper minor leagues, but nothing is really going to translate to the Major Leagues. His best tool is his arm, in my opinion. He's a solid defender on the corners but is stretched quite a bit in center field. He's an average to solid-average runner but not a significant base stealing threat. He doesn't have great pitch recognition and his barrel control/hit utility are not great, meaning he's very likely to swing and miss more at the big league level than he already does, making his average dip to unacceptable levels given his below-average power and likely dip in walk rates. All in all, he's a valuable part of the organization, filling a role in AA and AAA, but if he's showing up in the big leagues, the team is in dire straits.

Thank you Mark.

[pyrotigers]

Dang the Twins actually did something smart. Bizarro world

[Gehringer_2]

Dang the Twins actually did something smart. Bizarro world

So they moved Span and Revere? Who's left for CF?

[alwaysthrowheat]

So they moved Span and Revere? Who's left for CF?

Aaron Hicks should be their CF come May/June. Mastroianni will hold it down for a bit, also.

[Nastradamus]

Thank you Mark.

and it didn't even kill him to say

[pyrotigers]

So they moved Span and Revere? Who's left for CF?

Someone that's not Ben Revere sounds good to me

[Gehringer_2]

Aaron Hicks should be their CF come May/June. Mastroianni will hold it down for a bit, also.

The Twins are turning into a team of full of Smurfs. They will probably kill us next season.....

[alwaysthrowheat]

The Twins are turning into a team of full of Smurfs. They will probably kill us next season.....

Well admittedly, Ben Revere would be on the smurf team.

[Shelton]

I thought all lawyers liked Latin given the basis of so much legalese in the language?

Enough with the ad hominem arguments.

[brideck]

Does trading Justin Henry mean they think Kobernus is likely to stick? He could certainly make Berry unnecessary with the base stealing he's shown in the minors.

[RatkoVarda]

Does trading Justin Henry mean they think Kobernus is likely to stick? He could certainly make Berry unnecessary with the base stealing he's shown in the minors.

Henry was irrelevant to the team's long and short term plans and not having him does not change a thing for any other player. If the Tigers go with 4 OFs, they can carry 2 bench IFs, and Kobernus could be one of them.

[TheCouga]

Henry was irrelevant to the team's long and short term plans and not having him does not change a thing for any other player. If the Tigers go with 4 OFs, they can carry 2 bench IFs, and Kobernus could be one of them.

Now that they have Hunter in RF, there's really no need to have two backup OFs. Basically all your OFs (Hunter, Jackson, Dirks) can play all three OF spots. They just need a RH platoon partner with Dirks, and they'll be good. Plus, Infante can play OF in a pinch.

[TheCouga]

On another note, to look at all the ridiculous money being thrown around at OFs (Jonny frickin' Gomes getting 2/$10MM, an over the hill Victorino getting 3/$39MM, Pagan getting 4/$40MM), I'd much rather have Hunter at the price we're paying. He's older, but he's a fantastic defender still and hits better than any of these guys. DD strikes early again and gets a good deal.

[ROMAD1]

Interesting to see that the Royals were "in big" on Sanchez and Jon Paul Morosi was reporting that it was alerting to the Tigers that the Royals were ready to spend. Then today I read that the Royals are worried about money already. I kinda wonder if non-Tampa clubs who can pull off what Tampa does really exist. I can see a MLB player wanting to go to Tampa...I don't know if I can see one going to Cleveland, KC or Minnesota.

[Nolan]

Interesting to see that the Royals were "in big" on Sanchez and Jon Paul Morosi was reporting that it was alerting to the Tigers that the Royals were ready to spend. Then today I read that the Royals are worried about money already. I kinda wonder if non-Tampa clubs who can pull off what Tampa does really exist. I can see a MLB player wanting to go to Tampa...I don't know if I can see one going to Cleveland, KC or Minnesota.

I would much rather play in Minnesota than the other 3, especially with the new park.

[ROMAD1]

I would much rather play in Minnesota than the other 3, especially with the new park.

so you suggest that Minnesota is a vacation playground for idle young millionaires

[TheCouga]

so you suggest that Minnesota is a vacation playground for idle young millionaires

Tampa's actually not that great culture-wise. I mean, it's better than Orlando and leagues better than Jacksonville, but it doesn't come close to Miami, LA, SF, Chicago, NYC, Boston, DC, etc.

I mean, it's better than Milwaukee, Kansas City, Cleveland, or Pittsburgh or whatever, but not by much. I'd much rather live in Minneapolis, even if I were a rich athlete.

You state "vacation playground," but that's about the limit of Florida's appeal. The education sucks, the infrastructure sucks, the politics are corrupt, the culture sucks with a few exceptions, and the weather is surprisingly bad outside of vacation season. If you live in Minneapolis, you can always vacation there in March if you really want.

[LineCrosser]

You state "vacation playground," but that's about the limit of Florida's appeal. The education sucks, the infrastructure sucks, the politics are corrupt, the culture sucks with a few exceptions, and the weather is surprisingly bad outside of vacation season. If you live in Minneapolis, you can always vacation there in March if you really want.

Ah yes, but there is no state income tax, so that's appealing.

[Nolan]

so you suggest that Minnesota is a vacation playground for idle young millionaires

Nope. Minnesota's fans are great though. Baseball players have plenty of time during the season (and especially after it) to hang out in cooler places than Minnesota.

[ROMAD1]

Tampa's actually not that great culture-wise. I mean, it's better than Orlando and leagues better than Jacksonville, but it doesn't come close to Miami, LA, SF, Chicago, NYC, Boston, DC, etc.

I mean, it's better than Milwaukee, Kansas City, Cleveland, or Pittsburgh or whatever, but not by much. I'd much rather live in Minneapolis, even if I were a rich athlete.

You state "vacation playground," but that's about the limit of Florida's appeal. The education sucks, the infrastructure sucks, the politics are corrupt, the culture sucks with a few exceptions, and the weather is surprisingly bad outside of vacation season. If you live in Minneapolis, you can always vacation there in March if you really want.

and they got more bad neighborhoods...but, if you have cash...Tampa/St. Pete area is pretty nice. A lot to be said for Dolphins in your back yard (ocean-front)

[edit: this got kinda convoluted...I don't think I intended to argue why Tampa is a free agent draw...they don't sign the big dollar FAs...but, I suppose if it is a marginal appeal for the likes of Carlos Pena or someone else who is rebuilding his career...why not have it close to your winter home which is often in Cali, Fl, or Tx]

[mmwatkin]

Ah yes, but there is no state income tax, so that's appealing.

Bingo. There is a reason that the St. Pete/Tampa area is home to many athletes. No State Income Tax and no City Income Tax. Baseball players are close to spring training sites. Jose Bautista just built a huge house in Clearwater.

[pyrotigers]

On another note, to look at all the ridiculous money being thrown around at OFs (Jonny frickin' Gomes getting 2/$10MM, an over the hill Victorino getting 3/$39MM, Pagan getting 4/$40MM), I'd much rather have Hunter at the price we're paying. He's older, but he's a fantastic defender still and hits better than any of these guys. DD strikes early again and gets a good deal.

I wonder if Hunter is thinking '..if only I'd waited a month!' right now

[irvink]

The Angels and Rangers made a mistake by not making Hunter and Napoli a qualifying offer.

Best case, they'd have an extra draft pick this summer.

Worst case, a desirable trade piece or a nice player on a 1 year deal.

[TheCouga]

I wonder if Hunter is thinking '..if only I'd waited a month!' right now

I think in this market, even at his age, he probably could have gotten a third year if he waited..or at least something like 2/$30MM.

All this extra TV revenue is driving up prices. It makes the length of Prince's deal look good, not bad.

[TheCouga]

The Angels and Rangers made a mistake by not making Hunter and Napoli a qualifying offer.

Best case, they'd have an extra draft pick this summer.

Worst case, a desirable trade piece or a nice player on a 1 year deal.

Then again, if they made the qualifying offer and it was declined, it's possible neither player would have gotten as much money. I think giving up a draft pick is holding a lot of people back from signing Soriano. I, for one, wouldn't give up a draft pick to sign a closer--especially in an era where you can't overpay in later rounds to make up for it.

Still, I think both players would have turned one down.

Come to think of it, didn't Hunter say something like he wanted to stay with the Angels or was waiting to re-sign with them? That could have been a strategic move to spook them into not giving him a qualifying offer, so he could get more on the FA market. Especially since, once they failed to give him a QO, he pretty much made a beeline straight to Illich.