2012-13 Offseason Discussion

[RandyMarsh]

Not sure if it's been posted anywhere on here yet but I just heard on channel 7 newscast that Leyland announced that Lamont is being replaced by Brookens as 3B coach and Belliard will coach first. They said Lamont will stay on as a bench coach.

[STLTiger69]

If we're looking for someone to fill in vs. lefties for a year, who cares how old he is.

The Tigers are looking for a RH bat better than Berry can provide and they are not looking for a Cody Ross type anything nearly like that. I think Dombrowski is looking for like a 1 year "fix" and frankly the sort of contract price that Tigers could eat and nobody would blink and eye over especially if either Castellanos or Garcia were MLB ready later this year and the unyet named LF/platoon guy is playing poorly.

For instance:

July 2013 roster move: Raburn 2.0 released, Garcia (or Castellanos) called up...

[tiger337]

Yeah. i was wondering if they'd make some sort of move at SS. But I think this is likely. Maybe they surprise but I dunno if they are in the mode to do anything huge.

I'm still hoping for a shortstop, but they are always tough to get.

[Yoda]

The Tigers are looking for a RH bat better than Berry can provide and they are not looking for a Cody Ross type anything nearly like that. I think Dombrowski is looking for like a 1 year "fix" and frankly the sort of contract price that Tigers could eat and nobody would blink and eye over especially if either Castellanos or Garcia were MLB ready later this year and the unyet named LF/platoon guy is playing poorly.

For instance:

July 2013 roster move: Raburn 2.0 released, Garcia (or Castellanos) called up...

Berry isn't even a RH batter anyhow.

[Yoda]

Not sure if it's been posted anywhere on here yet but I just heard on channel 7 newscast that Leyland announced that Lamont is being replaced by Brookens as 3B coach and Belliard will coach first. They said Lamont will stay on as a bench coach.

Yup, just read that on twitter. Great moves all around.

[KleShreen]

Maybe Belliard is going to be the first base coach so he has more time to teach Prince how to play defense after he hits a single.

[tiger337]

Is Ramon tearing up the winter league or something. I'd be pretty tempted to let someone have him if they want him enough to pay his salary.

For what it's worth (no pun intended), Santiago is batting .324/.361/.353 in 8 games.

[Gehringer_2]

For what it's worth (no pun intended), Santiago is batting .324/.361/.353 in 8 games.

So where do you find this Lee? I looked around a bit and only found a Caribbean and a Mexican league but did not find Sanitago there.....

[KleShreen]

So where do you find this Lee? I looked around a bit and only found a Caribbean and a Mexican league but did not find Sanitago there.....

Ramon Santiago Stats, Bio, Photos, Highlights | MiLB.com Stats | The Official Site of Minor League Baseball

I think you can find any offseason league player through the milb.com player search. (note MILB, not MLB)

[tiger337]

So where do you find this Lee? I looked around a bit and only found a Caribbean and a Mexican league but did not find Sanitago there.....

Winter Leagues: Liga de Beisbol Dominicano: Statistics | MLB.com: Events

[Gehringer_2]

Winter Leagues: Liga de Beisbol Dominicano: Statistics | MLB.com: Events

I guess I'm just blind. I found that league but didn't see Santiago...

but thanks...

Kle also..

[Los Gatos]

I don't know if he's been mentioned here as a RHH OF possibility yet, but how about Ben Guez? He put up an .863 OPS between Erie and Toledo this year (.403 OBP) and is at .813 (.375 OBP) in winter ball.

It seems like he could be a decent pairing with Dirks and is more appealing to me than scraping the bottom of the FA basement or over-spending (in years) for a middle-of-the-road guy.

[hueytaxi]

Has anyone info on a mini camp on Jan 9th? I've been told that Avisail Garcia will cut his playing time short in Venezuela to attend. I would assume it will be in Lakeland, but don't know.

[pyrotigers]

Going to be tough for any team to top that Victorino contract as the worst of the offseason

[STLTiger69]

Going to be tough for any team to top that Victorino contract as the worst of the offseason

Waiting for news that the Tigers resign Delmon Young before I make that call...

[benrush]

I don't know if he's been mentioned here as a RHH OF possibility yet, but how about Ben Guez? He put up an .863 OPS between Erie and Toledo this year (.403 OBP) and is at .813 (.375 OBP) in winter ball.

It seems like he could be a decent pairing with Dirks and is more appealing to me than scraping the bottom of the FA basement or over-spending (in years) for a middle-of-the-road guy.

I have no issues with Guez or Justin Henry taking that spot. If they falter they will bring up Garcia or Castellanos

[ROMAD1]

Going to be tough for any team to top that Victorino contract as the worst of the offseason

Napoli and Victorino...hmmm this will ensure that Wednesday is Prince Spaghetti Day in North Boston.


http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=KlNAY...%3DKlNAYCcxgUw

[bosman]

Elsewhere in the Red Sox rumor-verse, Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe says the team is open to the idea of trading Jacoby Ellsbury, playing the newly-signed Shane Victorino in center field
Read more at Red Sox Rumors: Chavez, Ellsbury: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
how about Porcello, Crosby, and Jhonny for Ellsbury and Iglesias.

[alwaysthrowheat]

Nolasco wants out of Florida. How about a package deal with Porcello, Oliver, and Castellanos for Nolasco and Stanton?

That's cute.

[Nastradamus]

Going to be tough for any team to top that Victorino contract as the worst of the offseason

I don't think its that terrible. The guy is worth like 4 wins a year and you need a plus defender in Fenway's RF. Plus they need insurance for CF if Ellsbury is traded or leaves.

[thefunk]

Prediction: welcome back, Curtis.

[pyrotigers]

I don't think its that terrible. The guy is worth like 4 wins a year and you need a plus defender in Fenway's RF. Plus they need insurance for CF if Ellsbury is traded or leaves.

His skills have completely collapsed. They're paying more than 13 million a year for an average at best player.

.255 .321 .383 .704 last year. Career 102 OPS+ even counting his good years. He's now a corner outfielder and not particularly good defensively. Will be 32-34 years old through the contract.

They dumped all of the awful contracts they'd given out...and immediately started handing out more.

Well it's good news for Detroit, one less big spending AL team with smart management.

[ROMAD1]

I understand that Victorino is scrappy and that will be good because the people in Boston are also scrappy. According to the blather I heard on MLB network.

In other news...Cody Ross is going to add a vowel to the end of his surname so he can stay in Boston because that would seem scrappier.

[edit: ROMAD knows these are not actually funny observations but he had to make them anyway]

[ben9753]

Scutaro gets 20 for 3 yrs. from the Giants. Good deal for the Giants.

[sabretooth]

If we're looking for someone to fill in vs. lefties for a year, who cares how old he is.

Really? Age obviously matters if you're talking about what to expect from a guy.

A bounce-back to career normal could be expected from a guy over 30, but the Tigers would never sign Matt Diaz or these other guys and expect any of them to be any better than they've been over their careers -- and more importantly they'd be wise to expect their skills to decline marginally....and for marginal players like Diaz/Johnson/Rivera/Francisco/Raburn/etc., marginal decline can equal oblivion very quickly. For really good players like Pujols and Cabrera, that decline can be less impactful, for good players it can mean the loss of a starting job, and for bench players, it can mean curtains at any time.

So absent some better internal option, I advocate filling the bench role with a younger non-prospect acquisition like Wells -- his skills are still peaking, and keeping a non-prospect on the bench doesn't cost you the opportunity of developing him into something better (because he probably won't be). Then again, if an injury happens and Wells is given a chance to start for a while, he still has the shot to pull off a Ludwick/Torres for a year or three.

They need to work to fill the need as stated (RH platooning LFer), but also recognize that there's a decent chance that b/c of the unexpected (injury, Dirks doesn't work out), someone will be filling in for 200+ PAs of Dirks/Jackson/Hunter....so in for a penny, in for a pound. If you're giong to acquire someone and fill a roster spot, you should try to acquire the best player available at a reasonable price.

Ross's age means that he is due any year to shift from decent semi-regular to decent/good bench player, so he may be good in that role if he can accept it; Wells is a perfect fit for the bench model I am advocating.

[macedonian bengal]

Really? Age obviously matters if you're talking about what to expect from a guy.

A bounce-back to career normal could be expected from a guy over 30, but the Tigers would never sign Matt Diaz or these other guys and expect any of them to be any better than they've been over their careers -- and more importantly they'd be wise to expect their skills to decline marginally....and for marginal players like Diaz/Johnson/Rivera/Francisco/Raburn/etc., marginal decline can equal oblivion very quickly. For really good players like Pujols and Cabrera, that decline can be less impactful, for good players it can mean the loss of a starting job, and for bench players, it can mean curtains at any time.
.

So absent some better internal option, I advocate filling the bench role with a younger non-prospect acquisition like Wells -- his skills are still peaking, and keeping a non-prospect on the bench doesn't cost you the opportunity of developing him into something better (because he probably won't be). Then again, if an injury happens and Wells is given a chance to start for a while, he still has the shot to pull off a Ludwick/Torres for a year or three.

They need to work to fill the need as stated (RH platooning LFer), but also recognize that there's a decent chance that b/c of the unexpected (injury, Dirks doesn't work out), someone will be filling in for 200+ PAs of Dirks/Jackson/Hunter....so in for a penny, in for a pound. If you're giong to acquire someone and fill a roster spot, you should try to acquire the best player available at a reasonable price.

Ross's age means that he is due any year to shift from decent semi-regular to decent/good bench player, so he may be good in that role if he can accept it; Wells is a perfect fit for the bench model I am advocating.

So be it.

My thoughts pertaining to Dombrowski's comments that the Tigers would not be offering any multi yr. contracts to Cody Ross, Ryan Ludwick, or Scott Hairston, led me to previous comments from another poster that Diaz, RJohnson, Rivera and Francisco were some RH hitting options of the next lower tier down, i was only pointing out that Diaz seemed to have the most favorable career stats vs. Lhp's ..i didnt exactly endorse these guys, and quite frankly, noted my pessimism in the reality that for 40 games and 150 PA's , there's not a whole lot of exciting options out there on the FA market.

Personally, i think the idea of re-acquiring Casper Wells from Seattle is just as redundant, despite being younger. Quite honestly, if they're only going to be looking to bring in somebody for 40 games, 150 PA's , id prefer that player be Garcia, Castellanos, or Guez. Any one of those guys would be just as good if not better than Wells, or any of the elder washed up FA's.

[Gehringer_2]

Really? Age obviously matters if you're talking about what to expect from a guy.

A bounce-back to career normal could be expected from a guy over 30, but the Tigers would never sign Matt Diaz or these other guys and expect any of them to be any better than they've been over their careers -- and more importantly they'd be wise to expect their skills to decline marginally....and for marginal players like Diaz/Johnson/Rivera/Francisco/Raburn/etc., marginal decline can equal oblivion very quickly. For really good players like Pujols and Cabrera, that decline can be less impactful, for good players it can mean the loss of a starting job, and for bench players, it can mean curtains at any time.

So absent some better internal option, I advocate filling the bench role with a younger non-prospect acquisition like Wells -- his skills are still peaking, and keeping a non-prospect on the bench doesn't cost you the opportunity of developing him into something better (because he probably won't be). Then again, if an injury happens and Wells is given a chance to start for a while, he still has the shot to pull off a Ludwick/Torres for a year or three.

They need to work to fill the need as stated (RH platooning LFer), but also recognize that there's a decent chance that b/c of the unexpected (injury, Dirks doesn't work out), someone will be filling in for 200+ PAs of Dirks/Jackson/Hunter....so in for a penny, in for a pound. If you're giong to acquire someone and fill a roster spot, you should try to acquire the best player available at a reasonable price.

Ross's age means that he is due any year to shift from decent semi-regular to decent/good bench player, so he may be good in that role if he can accept it; Wells is a perfect fit for the bench model I am advocating.

I agree this is best approach for an org. There are always exceptions of guys who just happen to age strangely slowly- e.g. Omar Visquel. But you shouldn't strategize based on the exceptions.

[NeedMoreLike84]

This year's most anticipated reclamation project Jason Bay is nearing a decision

[ballmich]

I saw that the Mets are shopping Johan Santana and might pay some salary, and I thought that was sort of interesting. I like Santana to bounce back this year. Perhaps a fall back option from Sanchez... Then I saw Santana's contract... $25.5MM in 2013 and an option for $25MM in 2014 or a $5.5MM buyout. $31MM commitment for 1-year, yikes. He's worth a gamble, but it's hard to believe the Mets are going to eat $23-24MM of that. No wonder no one is calling them about Johan.

[benrush]

The Grienke deal is very important to the Tigers. And it's not based on Anibal but locking up JV. I think the time is this year to extend JV for another 6 years 160 million and move on! The Mariners are already making plans to lock up Felix and he set the market for JV the last time he signed his mult-million dollar deal.

Cabrera will need to be extended next year.

[Nastradamus]

His skills have completely collapsed. They're paying more than 13 million a year for an average at best player.

.255 .321 .383 .704 last year. Career 102 OPS+ even counting his good years. He's now a corner outfielder and not particularly good defensively. Will be 32-34 years old through the contract.

They dumped all of the awful contracts they'd given out...and immediately started handing out more.

Well it's good news for Detroit, one less big spending AL team with smart management.

He had a pretty bad wrist injury last year and I still think he's a plus defender in a corner. We'll have to see though.

[NeedMoreLike84]

The Grienke deal is very important to the Tigers. And it's not based on Anibal but locking up JV. I think the time is this year to extend JV for another 6 years 160 million and move on! The Mariners are already making plans to lock up Felix and he set the market for JV the last time he signed his mult-million dollar deal.

Cabrera will need to be extended next year.

I want JV and Cabrera to retire Tigers.

[KKoepp31]

Personally, i think the idea of re-acquiring Casper Wells from Seattle is just as redundant, despite being younger. Quite honestly, if they're only going to be looking to bring in somebody for 40 games, 150 PA's , id prefer that player be Garcia, Castellanos, or Guez. Any one of those guys would be just as good if not better than Wells, or any of the elder washed up FA's.

You don't bring Castellanos or Garcia up just to get 150 PA's out of them. They need full time bats against righties and lefties, no matter what level they end up at. Would they give you better production than Wells in that limited role? Sure, but the return isn't worth sacrificing a potential very good player to fill that need. They just need a solid MLB bench player that will know, and accept, his role.

[ROMAD1]

Bonderman is going to sign by this weekend per JPM

[john doe]

May have already been posted. Yankees looking to trade Curtis Granderson t - 12-05-2012

[ballmich]

Personally, i think the idea of re-acquiring Casper Wells from Seattle is just as redundant, despite being younger. Quite honestly, if they're only going to be looking to bring in somebody for 40 games, 150 PA's , id prefer that player be Garcia, Castellanos, or Guez. Any one of those guys would be just as good if not better than Wells, or any of the elder washed up FA's.

I think you are underestimating how much playing time Wells, or whatever RHB platoon OF we end up with, will actually get. He probably sees about 60 starts and probably 275 PA's (and could be more). Hunter isn't going to play every day, he's about a 135-140 games/year at this stage of his career. Jackson, injuries aside, gets about 10 games off each season season.

That said, a guy like Wells wouldn't be redundant, since we aren't assured of having anyone like him to put on the roster. Garcia and Castellanos will get their chances, but we don't know if they are going to be ready to start this season, and there's no reason for us to count on that happening. Wells (or whoever) would be a low cost option, that if it didn't work out, we could easily part with and not look back.

As far as Guez, I don't think the organization believes he is the answer. He's been demoted to AA to start each of the last two seasons. And he's got a career .783 OPS at AAA through 947 PA's. It's not the calling card of a guy who appears ready to take a major league roster spot, let alone a part-time starting role. But I hope I'm wrong about him, because all the more quality bats we can develop the better. And clearly he could fill a need for us if he is legit.

[ballmich]

Bonderman is going to sign by this weekend per JPM

He's not going to be ready to start the season given he had his TJ last April, reportedly. A minor league deal with a required call-up in June/July or opt-out sounds about right to me. I'd like to think we could offer that and should sign him.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

You don't bring Castellanos or Garcia up just to get 150 PA's out of them. They need full time bats against righties and lefties, no matter what level they end up at. Would they give you better production than Wells in that limited role? Sure, but the return isn't worth sacrificing a potential very good player to fill that need. They just need a solid MLB bench player that will know, and accept, his role.

Do the Tigers have to give a a potentially very good player to get Wells?

[john doe]

Do the Tigers have to give a a potentially very good player to get Wells?

I should say not!

[john doe]

"There's going to be a lot of good times to come." - David Wright. Easy to say after securing that contract.