2012-13 Offseason Discussion

[catswithbats]

Switching gears...was rewatching MLB at bat app highlights of the season... We stunk for a large part of this season. I really think our fans showing up in the interleague games in Cinnci and Chicago saved our season...we were like 5 games under .500 until then.

Also amusing to see the Yankees were 20 games over .500 at that point

That Chicago series is also when Phil Coke said "Bear with us. It's happening," and almost everyone laughed at him.

[Dusty]

David Schoenfiled from ESPN's Sweet Spot proposes this blockbuster:

Detroit Tigers trade 3B Nick Castellanos, SS Jhonny Peralta, OF Avisail Garcia and LHP Casey Crosby to the Baltimore Orioles for SS J.J. Hardy, RHP Jim Johnson and LHP Troy Patton

Five blockbuster trade suggestions - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN

What are your thoughts on this?

[Yoda]

I don't think Baltimore would touch that. Unless they're in sell mode which I don't think is the case. I think they're in for a huge regress next year but they still probably think they can win.

[PuNk42AE]

Baltimore would do that in a heartbeat. Machacho would move to this normal spot of SS, Peralta or Castellanos would become 3B. Patton finally figured out to pitch at the end of the year out of the pen, and Johnson could be filled by a few other people in their 2012 pen.

[sabretooth]

David Schoenfiled from ESPN's Sweet Spot proposes this blockbuster:

Detroit Tigers trade 3B Nick Castellanos, SS Jhonny Peralta, OF Avisail Garcia and LHP Casey Crosby to the Baltimore Orioles for SS J.J. Hardy, RHP Jim Johnson and LHP Troy Patton

Five blockbuster trade suggestions - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN

What are your thoughts on this?

I have coveted JJ Hardy for the longest time, and I've advocated a package inclusive of Peralta to get Hardy since the latter part of the 2012 season....however giving up our two best prospects seems really steep for the return.

Hardy>>Peralta
Patton>Crosby
Jim Johnson<Nicky+Avisail

No offense to Jim Johnson fans, the guy is a good reliever, but he's going to be 30 in 2013 and he was never a plus pitcher of any kind for 50+ innings in a season until 2011....he's what Rick Porcello would look like as a successful relief pitcher.

I just don't see how Hardy and Patton are that much better than Peralta and Crosby to the extent where we need to deal away the rest of the farm.

I'm generally a guy who prefers proven performance over prospects, especially now that we're in the title hunt...but it seems to me that we can't deal away all of our farm system and get 30+ year old players and a late-20's reliever project (Patton) in return. If we were getting some other Baltimore youth in the deal, then let's see, but otherwise this is an unbalanced deal that would leave our cupboard completely bare.

[Shelton]

That deal is garbage.

[Nastradamus]

Yah, that's just stupid. Hardy is a very minor upgrade on Peralta and I don't have any interesting in trading good prospects for a freakin' reliever. I don't know much about Patton, but unless he's Matt Moore v.2.0, no thank you.

[Imminent Threat]

Count me in with the last couple guys. Even without including Garcia or Castellanos that deal is one sided. At least in my opinion. Giving up a ton of young could be types for a sure thing SS (defensively) and a bunch of guys who could revert back to what they have always been.

[catswithbats]

If they're going to give up Castellanos, I hope it's for more than JJ Hardy, Jim Johnson and/or Troy Patton.

[ballmich]

David Schoenfiled from ESPN's Sweet Spot proposes this blockbuster:

Detroit Tigers trade 3B Nick Castellanos, SS Jhonny Peralta, OF Avisail Garcia and LHP Casey Crosby to the Baltimore Orioles for SS J.J. Hardy, RHP Jim Johnson and LHP Troy Patton

Five blockbuster trade suggestions - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN

What are your thoughts on this?

When I see this kind of garbage, I think people really are grasping straws at some sort of perceived need due lack of an experienced "closer". If it was such a big need, I'm sure we'd be kicking the tires on Soriano, Soria, or Madson right now. Not dealing away our two top prospects for a minor SS upgrade and a closer who doesn't strike guys out.

[irvink]

If the Tigers are going to add a solid BP arm, Soria is the guy I'd like to see them go after, especially if they can get him on a 1 year deal.

[irvink]

With 4 years left on his deal, Longoria gets a 6 year/100 million dollar extension from the Rays. I hope the Tigers surprise us all with an extension for Verlander and/or Cabrera this offseason.

Evan Longoria, Tampa Bay Rays agree to $100 million extension - ESPN

[Nastradamus]

They've really handled Longoria's contract well, twice now. Good move by a good organization.

I said a year ago we should have offered JV a 4/100 extension. Its a bit high on AAV, but shorter than the years we are going to end up giving him. Oh well.

[irvink]

Tigers sign 19 minor leaguers:

Here are the 19 players the Tigers have signed, per Monday's announcement:

Right-handers: Trevor Bell, Cesar Carrillo, Shane Dyer, Shawn Hill, Micah Kellogg, David Kopp, Victor Larez, Carlos Monasterios, Jesse Todd

Left-handers: Jose Alvarez, Ramon Garcia, Efrain Nieves

Catcher: Brad Davis

Infielders: Argenis Diaz, Lance Durham, John Lindsey

Infielders/outfielders: Marcus Lemon, Kevin Russo, Matt Tuiasosopo


Tigers sign 19 to minor league contracts; some stand out | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

[TigersSlappy]

Well we can trade Jackson now.

Jason Beck ‏@beckjason

Former #Tigers, Nats outfielder Nook Logan working out for teams this week in Arizona. Hasn't played since 2010, but trying comeback.

[tiger337]

Keep Jackson. Put Logan at shortstop.

[ballmich]

Well, that would put a damper on my plan to sign Inge to play SS.

[spikesglaring]

The Royals are dangling Wil Myers for pitchers like James Shields & Jon Lester, according to the Kansas City Star.

Boy, I'd love for the Tigers to swoop in & grab Myers. Young hitters like him do not come along often enough, so I would think Boston or Tampa would jump all over that idea.

[TheCouga]

The Royals are dangling Wil Myers for pitchers like James Shields & Jon Lester, according to the Kansas City Star.

Boy, I'd love for the Tigers to swoop in & grab Myers. Young hitters like him do not come along often enough, so I would think Boston or Tampa would jump all over that idea.

That would be insane if we could get Myers. There's no way the Royals would trade him within the division, unfortunately. A future outfield of Myers/Castellanos/Garcia would be pretty awesome.

[sabretooth]

It's remarkable how similar Myers and Castellanos were at the same age.

[spikesglaring]

That would be insane if we could get Myers. There's no way the Royals would trade him within the division, unfortunately. A future outfield of Myers/Castellanos/Garcia would be pretty awesome.

Jackson is pretty young, so I'd probably daydream of Garcia/Jackson/Myers with Castellanos at 3B, Miggy at 1B, & Prince at DH (where he belongs).

[pyrotigers]

Well we can trade Jackson now.

Nook Logan - The Quentin Berry of 2013

Mark it down

[ROMAD1]

I keep hearing about the "National Baseball Deal" being renegotiated. Does this mean MORE Joe Buck, more Tim McCarver? Could they develop multi-audio feeds for directv broadcasts that seemlessly simulcast local radio feeds with the video sooner?

[KleShreen]

Jackson is pretty young, so I'd probably daydream of Garcia/Jackson/Myers with Castellanos at 3B, Miggy at 1B, & Prince at DH (where he belongs).

Except Prince will never be a full-time DH because he said he didn't want to be. If the Tigers ever stick him there for a considerable amount of time, it's gonna turn in to a problem for the team.

[SacBunt]

I keep hearing about the "National Baseball Deal" being renegotiated. Does this mean MORE Joe Buck, more Tim McCarver? Could they develop multi-audio feeds for directv broadcasts that seemlessly simulcast local radio feeds with the video sooner?

Or even better - have multiple announcer teams and allow me to choose one. The network could provide audio channels for the old school announcing duo, the young stat-based duo, the comedic duo bent more on entertainment (with guests every inning), and the McCarver/Buck channel.

[alwaysthrowheat]

Ken_Rosenthal: Peter Gammons (@pgammo) just said on @MLBNetwork's Hot Stove that #TIgers owner Ilitch spoke with Boras about Soriano on Monday.

Paying a reliever 35-40MM for 3 years is just about the worst possible way to allocate funds. There's no way that someone as fungible as a reliever could provide that much value unless they gave up 20 runs in those 180 innings.

Not to mention, the Tigers would have to surrender a first rounder. If you want to spend 35-40MM that bad, flip Scherzer for a bunch of prospects or young MLB talent, and trade for Cliff Lee. He's due to make about 35-40MM more than Scherzer the next 3 years.

[4hzglory]

Ken_Rosenthal: Peter Gammons (@pgammo) just said on @MLBNetwork's Hot Stove that #TIgers owner Ilitch spoke with Boras about Soriano on Monday.

Paying a reliever 35-40MM for 3 years is just about the worst possible way to allocate funds. There's no way that someone as fungible as a reliever could provide that much value unless they gave up 20 runs in those 180 innings.

Not to mention, the Tigers would have to surrender a first rounder. If you want to spend 35-40MM that bad, flip Scherzer for a bunch of prospects or young MLB talent, and trade for Cliff Lee. He's due to make about 35-40MM more than Scherzer the next 3 years.

Agree completely and will be very disappointed if we sign Soriano. I'd much rather see us put those $ into Sanchez if we want to spend them. I really think we are fine in the back end of our pen, at least not bad enough to pay what it would take to get Soriano for the bit of an upgrade he would be.

[4hzglory]

Agree completely and will be very disappointed if we sign Soriano. I'd much rather see us put those $ into Sanchez if we want to spend them. I really think we are fine in the back end of our pen, at least not bad enough to pay what it would take to get Soriano for the bit of an upgrade he would be.

To add, Boras did probably bring up Soriano when they were talking about Drew. Doesn't mean we are going to look that direction though.

[T&P_Fan]

Yeah, no way on Soriano. That is too much money for a reliever.

[Oblong]

Or even better - have multiple announcer teams and allow me to choose one. The network could provide audio channels for the old school announcing duo, the young stat-based duo, the comedic duo bent more on entertainment (with guests every inning), and the McCarver/Buck channel.

I don't see why Fox would go along with that. They pay the bills. They want you to hear their guys, for better or worse, that's the Fox #1 Duo and Buck is their #1 guy. Even doing a MLB broadcast he's still in a way advertising for the NFL and Fox. They want you to hear him slip in a pseudo commercial or reference to a Fox Network entertainer or entitiy.

[Nastradamus]

Except Prince will never be a full-time DH because he said he didn't want to be. If the Tigers ever stick him there for a considerable amount of time, it's gonna turn in to a problem for the team.

At 26 he said this. As he feels his own body start to deteriorate, he'll get with the program IMO. Dunn didn't want to DH either. PRince isn't near as bad a fielder as a guy like Dunn though.

[Los Gatos]

On the bright side, Soriano is good, but I agree that kind of money could be better spent elsewhere. It's quite possible that Boras brought up Soriano with Ilitch simply to leak the news to generate other teams' interest. These days I'm sure agents love to get Ilitch's and/or the Dodgers' names attached to any FA rumors.

[Oblong]

For all we now Scott Boras sent Mike Ilitch a text message asking if he had any interest in Soriano, Ilitch never reads his texts, doesn't even know how to use the phone, then Boras leaks it to Gammons saying "I've been talking with Mike....."

[Yoda]

For all we now Scott Boras sent Mike Ilitch a text message asking if he had any interest in Soriano, Ilitch never reads his texts, doesn't even know how to use the phone, then Boras leaks it to Gammons saying "I've been talking with Mike....."

hah!

[irvink]

Say No to Soriano.

[John_Brian_K]

Yeah, no way on Soriano. That is too much money for a reliever.

This.

[ballmich]

I really think the mindset on paying a closer $10+ per season has changed in recent years, particularly if it's a long term commitment like 3-4 years. The elite guys can probably still command that, but the mid to lower tier closers appear to have seen some salary compression down towards the upper tier set-up guys (who have seen an increase to meet them mid-way). I think closers are somewhat a $6-7M/year commodity now (with upper tier set-up guys in the $5-6M/year range).

I don't see any obvious team out there that would pay Soriano 3/$35-40M.

[ROMAD1]

Dombrowski is trying to wait out the market on closers. Meanwhile Boras is trying to work his gold mine.

[TheCouga]

Dombrowski is trying to wait out the market on closers. Meanwhile Boras is trying to work his gold mine.

Right. It seems that there's again going to be a glut of possible closers available.

I wonder if DD and Boras have an agreement: allow a better deal on Drew in exchange for not denying rumors that drive up Soriano's value. I really think Boras screwed up by having Soriano opt out of his contract. I don't know a sensible team that would spend the kind of money he's looking for on a closer. I wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees end up taking him back, but at a lower cost.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Right. It seems that there's again going to be a glut of possible closers available.

I wonder if DD and Boras have an agreement: allow a better deal on Drew in exchange for not denying rumors that drive up Soriano's value.

If that came out it would severely damage Boras' reputation with players for what I think would be an extremely small benefit (i.e. Tigers not denying rumors WRT Soriano).