2012-13 Offseason Discussion

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Wild card possibility: Delmon Young gets re-signed for 1 year/$7MM for FT LF.

I will lose it if this happens.

[will the thrill]

Wild card possibility: Delmon Young gets re-signed for 1 year/$7MM for FT LF.

and with that MTS will crash and be down for a least 3 days

[apabruce]

Isn't a Sanchez resigning "free," in the sense that they don't give up a #1 draft choice for him? I assume a Torii Hunter would involve loss of a draft choice? That may not mean he signs with the Tigers, but that should make the Tigers a little more eager to sign him.

[DTroppens]

I am one of the biggest slappies you will see, but I never expected a WS out of them this year....not seriously anyway. I hoped for it of course, but I didn't rationally think they would make it.

I had huge expectations for this team before the season started, but once we got beyond that period and saw "what they were" I really thought anything from a couple games below .500 to maybe eight games above .500 seemed like a likely projection. By mid-May it was apparent that the offense was never going to be what many of us (including myself) was going to be and that this team seriously lacked even reasonable journeyman players at many starting positions and/or on their bench. It was a team with so many holes it wasn't funny.

Honestly, I am flat out amazed this team made it to the World Series. But even that said, if our pitching staff didn't collectively become 1968 Bob Gibson for the opening two rounds of the playoffs, the Tigers wouldn't have gotten this far.

Gosh, for most of the season you felt like you were playing with a lineup just waiting for one of three bats to get up to the plate. If they didn't you flat out could leave to clean some dishes or something.

[will the thrill]

I don't see any reason not to go with Dirks as one outfield spot, we just watched a team beat us in the world series with 2 of those type guys in the outfield.

Pagan .288/.338/.778
Blanco .244/.333/.676
Dirks .293/.340/.794 (2 year career)

These are the guys you win with, we've spent the better part of 8 years trying to sign someone elses castoffs to man our corner outfields, need to use what we have when it shows itself.

It's funny to me how our guys who hit .240 (Peralta, Avila) get nothing but trashed on this board, but other teams .240 guys kill us with diving catches

[tater6]

I wouldn't mind looking at a SS, whether Rutledge, one of the guys out of Cincinatti, Yunel Escobar, JJ Hardy or someone else. However, I am not near as against bringing Peralta back as some. I think his D is underrated and his O is pretty solid for the most part. He finsihed under a 700 OPS, but his 400 something September really sunk the average and paints an inaccurate pitcher. Something was clearly off with him and he seemed to have righted it by the playoffs. He was a mid 700s guy from May through August.

People overrate what Porcello is going to bring back and I don't think signing Sanchez is realistic. The one caveat to that is, Illitch may just keep firing money at the problem until we get one. We got so close and he wants one soon.

I'm excited about Garcia and Castellanos, but they aren't quite ready and you don't bring them up to use as platoon guys.

We need an OF or 2 who can get on base and play D. However, we just as badly need guys who can hit lefties. That is the one area dumping Delmon(and I am not saying we shouldn't, we definitely have to) hurts us in. Hopefully we sign a guy like Shoppach and I'm still in favor of looking at Soriano for LF. Other than that, get a lefty batting practice pitcher I guess!

I wouldn't add anything to the bullpen. Hopefully Coke can be something between his regular seaosn performance and his postseason performance. I like Downs as a second lefty and we have good depth with Villareal,Dotel(easy pick up on the option),Benoit(I still believe in him, the stuff is there),AA,Marte and Rondon. I don't even hate Putkonen like others do. I think he has potential.

Peralta has poor range, if he's not hitting he doesn't have much value and he didn't hit well.
Pocello's greatest value might come from a trade. Someone suggested closer/reliever, who knows. Might be worth a try.
I would take Shoppach over Laird but neither excite me. I like Soriano's bat, not sure he could handle the OF. If you get him cheap enough. If you can deal with DY, I don't think Soriano would be that bad.

[TheCouga]

What are the chances of the Braves not re-signing Michael Bourn? I can't see why they wouldn't, but I'd love to see that guy on our roster batting second. He is currently a FA, but the Braves have the exclusive five-day negotiating window.

[TheCouga]

Peralta has poor range, if he's not hitting he's does have much value and he didn't hit well.
Pocello's greatest value might come from a trade. Someone suggested closer/reliever, who knows. Might be worth a try.
I would take Shoppach over Laird but neither excite me. I like Soriano's bat, not sure he could handle the OF. If you get him cheap enough. If you can deal with DY, I don't think Soriano would be that bad.

Peralta's not optimal, but there's not too many SS out there that would be. Andrus would cost us an arm and a leg. And mostly everyone else available sucks. 6MM on a one-year deal is pretty risk-free. And you can pretty much guarantee that Peralta will give you solid hitting performance with some upside. They absolutely have to exercise his option. Whether they trade him after that is a different question, and one I would be open to considering. But Peralta at the cost of his option only adds value, so I hope it gets exercised.

[will the thrill]

why would we want Bourn to bat second and get the stop sign to steal? Unless we have a new manager, I can see signing a guy who's biggest value comes in speed and steals and leaving him cemented at first base every time he gets on

[davidsb]

Rondon becomes our closer sometime in 2013. Book it!

[ewsieg]

That may have been one I forgot to change. Probably more like a 4 year deal 10 per. I also did not know that Dotel had an option on his contract.

I was thinking 4 @ 10 was a possibility at the end of the regular season. 5 at 12 might be a minimum and we need to see how the Yankee's react this offseason. If they believe they are still bloated and don't want to spend money again, maybe contract costs come back down to what i'd like to see the Tigers spend for him.

[TheCouga]

why would we want Bourn to bat second and get the stop sign to steal? Unless we have a new manager, I can see signing a guy who's biggest value comes in speed and steals and leaving him cemented at first base every time he gets on

Why give him the stop sign? Cabrera's great at hitting singles, too. Steal second, single to right, drive him in.

[tater6]

Peralta's not optimal, but there's not too many SS out there that would be. Andrus would cost us an arm and a leg. And mostly everyone else available sucks. 6MM on a one-year deal is pretty risk-free. And you can pretty much guarantee that Peralta will give you solid hitting performance with some upside. They absolutely have to exercise his option. Whether they trade him after that is a different question, and one I would be open to considering. But Peralta at the cost of his option only adds value, so I hope it gets exercised.

Leyland likes him so if Leyland is back so it Peralta, I just don't think he's a solid hitting type player. They keep him because he's cheap and got experience. Leyland's kind of guy. Keeping players like this will keep them from winning the WS.

[TheCouga]

Hmmm...I didn't see this:

Tigers Notes: Sanchez, Valverde, Leyland: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

GM Dave Dombrowski has said re-signing the right-hander is a priority for the Tigers this winter.
Read more at MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

It looks like they are going to try and re-sign him. In this case, I hope they try and deal Porcello. I think Smyly is a better fit for this team, given his K rate (with our defense, that becomes more important), contract status, and the fact that he's a lefty.

[TheCouga]

Keeping players like this will keep them from winning the WS.

That's not what stopped us this year. In fact, Peralta hit better than almost everyone else in the playoffs.

[TheCouga]

BJ Upton is also available. I'd like to see us trade for Justin Upton, though. He had a bad year, but I think his value is low enough now that we might get a deal on him. We'd have to give up Castellanos or Garcia, plus another decent prospect. But I would do that at this point.

[ballmich]

Wild card possibility: Delmon Young gets re-signed for 1 year/$7MM for FT LF.

Why kick us all in the groin when we're already down? Did you not realize that we were just swept in the WS last night?

[ballmich]

I was thinking 4 @ 10 was a possibility at the end of the regular season. 5 at 12 might be a minimum and we need to see how the Yankee's react this offseason. If they believe they are still bloated and don't want to spend money again, maybe contract costs come back down to what i'd like to see the Tigers spend for him.

Sanchez will be a top target of many teams this winter, perhaps above Greinke for many teams. I'd be surprised if he doesn't see an offer of 5/$75 million, and he will probably go for more. What front end SP signs for less than $15 million per year?

[junkballer]

The good news is that we don't have to make too many moves to contend again next year. With Victor coming back, Infante settling in, and a veteran corner outfielder to be picked up... I can't see getting a negative WAR out of LF/DH/2B next year.

In terms of pitching, the first order of business should be securing Dirty Sanchez or someone of similar value - I don't want to see money shelled out on the bullpen unless it is being shelled out everywhere else first.

When it comes to our lack of bench depth, well, we have those guys already... It's just that we had to start them for too much of the season.

I'm excited to see what happens between Garcia and Boesch and Castellanos.

Can't wait until pitchers and catchers report!

[ballmich]

Dan Haren might be a nice fall back from Sanchez, if the Angels do buy-out his contract. Though I would be a little surprised to see them do that, but I have heard some rumblings about it.

[Ron Burgandy]

I can't see us resigning Sanchez AND going after Torii Hunter (who is due to fall off a cliff any season now anyway). If inking Anibal to a new contract is a priority, then I think we'll be in the market for a more modest upgrade for LF. I'd be fine with any of Melky Cabrera, Angel Pagan, or Coco Crisp (assuming the trade cost isn't too high) for a year or two. If you give one of that trio LF and the #2 hole in the lineup, then you can afford to go with a Dirks/Garcia platoon in RF, IMO (or a cheap RH hitting RF if Garcia is better served starting in the minors).

The wild card is just how badly Mike Illitch wants to win. I've seen several people speculate that we could be a destination for Josh Hamilton. If money really is no object at this point, then I could see us resigning Sanchez for 4/$60, and then giving the same type of deal to Hamilton as well to play LF. But Hunter just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. He's not that good, and likely to be more expensive than he's worth. I see us either making more inexpensive tweaks (like an Angel Pagan) or going all in on Hamilton.

[tater6]

That's not what stopped us this year. In fact, Peralta hit better than almost everyone else in the playoffs.

He was as much the problem as anyone, only .067 in the WS. Jackson, Infante, Young and even Miggy hit for higher averages in the playoffs. The only good player he out hit was Fielder. Out hitting the rest is no feat, they are bench players at best.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I see no way that Sanchez gets less than $12MM per year. He is a really good pitcher and young.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

The Tigers should not be using 4 game sample sizes - even if the games in question are the World Series - to impact personel decisions.

Sean Casey was awesome in the 06 WS, 07 not so much.

[ballmich]

I see no way that Sanchez gets less than $12MM per year. He is a really good pitcher and young.

And he also by be the top free agent on the board, or at least top SP on the board, for a number of teams. Both Hamilton and Greinke come with some question marks. I can't imagine that he signs for less than $15/year. And he may get more than 5 years.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

And he also by be the top free agent on the board, or at least top SP on the board, for a number of teams. Both Hamilton and Greinke come with some question marks. I can't imagine that he signs for less than $15/year. And he may get more than 5 years.

I can see $15MM per year easily as well, but am not as confident as you he gets $15MM per. I think he has a 65% chance at that, depending on the bidders for his services and how those bidders view Greinke relative to Anibal.

[catswithbats]

I'd like to see what Castellanos and Garcia are capable of in spring training. Maybe they could take over RF or a bench role.

I don't think having Castellanos and/or Garcia as bench/role players would benefit them. I'd rather see them start in Toledo and get a mid-season call up then have them on the bench.

[catswithbats]

Wild card possibility: Delmon Young gets re-signed for 1 year/$7MM for FT LF.

I agreed with most of your post, but then I got to this.

[Seattle Mike]

Hmmm...I didn't see this:

Tigers Notes: Sanchez, Valverde, Leyland: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com



It looks like they are going to try and re-sign him. In this case, I hope they try and deal Porcello. I think Smyly is a better fit for this team, given his K rate (with our defense, that becomes more important), contract status, and the fact that he's a lefty.

It seems likely Sanchez will receive a competitive offer from the Tigers. Who knows if he will take it. The guy will be in high, high demand.

Even if the Tigers resign Sanchez, I wouldn't move Porcello. He is very valuable insurance against the inevitable injury. The Tigers really have no other options. One of the reasons they stunk in April and May was the detritus they ran out there in place of Fister.

Frankly, it shouldn't be that difficult to cure what ails the Tigers. They already have an amazing foundation, better than just about any franchise. And they have an owner willing to spend some money. Good god, if DD is worth the millions he makes he should be able to address the issues--and without getting incredibly lucky. How hard is it to find ONE corner outfielder who can hit, field, and run a bit? The guy doesn't have to be a star just not a 21-year old rookie who still has things to work on, a 27- year old rookie who can't hit, or a guy with a history of running hot but mostly cold and who can't field.

I wouldn't spend an extra dime on the bullpen, other than picking up Dotel's option. Who gives a you know what if we don't have a dedicated closer heading into season. Pretty much every team blows a few saves a year. The key is to have some decent arms and flexibility and the Tigers have that. For the record, I would not trade Porcello for a closer. Heck, I bet if they made Porcello the closer his save percentage would be the same as any guy they traded for.

And for the life of god upgrade the bench. All that requires is some cheap but judicious moves, nothing a guy getting paid millions shouldn't be able to do. This year's bench, especially during the postseason, was atrocious.

The upshot: all the tigers have to do is upgrade some at the margins and they should win 90 games and make the playoffs. That's all you can hope for.

[catswithbats]

Dan Haren might be a nice fall back from Sanchez, if the Angels do buy-out his contract. Though I would be a little surprised to see them do that, but I have heard some rumblings about it.

I would love this because, as you all probably know, I am an unapologetic Dan Haren fangirl.

[TheCouga]

I don't think signing Melky would be a bad thing at all. He's one of the few guys out there that you could both a) get him to sign a 1-year deal, and 2) isn't an injury or age risk. His value is low right now, but I have a feeling that most of that value is the overreaction to the steroids issue. As much as I think steroids are cheating and warrant large suspensions, I don't think they give you that much of a performance boost in that the player's production should be totally ignored. He was a very good player last year, and could be a real steal.

I think Hamilton might actually be a good deal for some of the same reasons--although DD/Leyland might not want to see what happens when they put Cabrera and Hamilton in the same clubhouse.

[tiger337]

I could see the Tigers signing Delmon again. He won't be their first choice, but if they haven't signed anybody else by January and Young is still out there not getting good offers, the Tigers might bring him back for cheap to play left field. He's the same player he was last year and they brought him back then, so I wouldn't discount that happening again in 2013.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I think one big difference in how Delmon is viewed today vs. last year is that (I think)there was some thought by the front office that Delmon reached what should be his prime age for hitting, and they took a gamble based at least on some part on that.

They lost that bet, and I think the front office is less bullish on Delmon's ceiling. Just a guess or hunch on my part.

[sabretooth]

Tigers Notes: Sanchez, Valverde, Leyland: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Good....I'm glad.

I'm sure the salary scolds will have something negative to say about the likely price, but if Sanchez delivers a commensurate level of performance, I will be happy with it.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I should add that a not insignificant part of my objection on Delmon bit chasfh posted was the $7MM contract.

Tough I really don't care to watch him play, if (and this is a *big* if) the Tigers signed Delmon to something like a $3MM deal with the right incentives with the thought that he is a platoon player / bench piece with some upside potential, I probably wouldn't be apopletic. I'd probably be less than happy, though.

[sabretooth]

It seems likely Sanchez will receive a competitive offer from the Tigers. Who knows if he will take it. The guy will be in high, high demand.

Even if the Tigers resign Sanchez, I wouldn't move Porcello. He is very valuable insurance against the inevitable injury. The Tigers really have no other options. One of the reasons they stunk in April and May was the detritus they ran out there in place of Fister.

Frankly, it shouldn't be that difficult to cure what ails the Tigers. They already have an amazing foundation, better than just about any franchise. And they have an owner willing to spend some money. Good god, if DD is worth the millions he makes he should be able to address the issues--and without getting incredibly lucky. How hard is it to find ONE corner outfielder who can hit, field, and run a bit? The guy doesn't have to be a star just not a 21-year old rookie who still has things to work on, a 27- year old rookie who can't hit, or a guy with a history of running hot but mostly cold and who can't field.

I wouldn't spend an extra dime on the bullpen, other than picking up Dotel's option. Who gives a you know what if we don't have a dedicated closer heading into season. Pretty much every team blows a few saves a year. The key is to have some decent arms and flexibility and the Tigers have that. For the record, I would not trade Porcello for a closer. Heck, I bet if they made Porcello the closer his save percentage would be the same as any guy they traded for.

And for the life of god upgrade the bench. All that requires is some cheap but judicious moves, nothing a guy getting paid millions shouldn't be able to do. This year's bench, especially during the postseason, was atrocious.

The upshot: all the tigers have to do is upgrade some at the margins and they should win 90 games and make the playoffs. That's all you can hope for.

Seattle Mike once again proves that quantity of posts is no match for quality. Agree 100%. I would not mind acquiring a bullpen arm but I would hate to see them spend big $$ on the bullpen...exercise Dotel's option and look for bargains. We have a pretty good corps of arms there.

I would also like to see them keep Porcello in the mix to provide an extra starting pitcher as insurance -- probabaly Smyly out of the pen.

I also don't think it should be that damn hard to find a decent corner OF for goodness' sake.

The last major item, the SS defense, would take some creativity, but it's far from prohibitively expensive to upgrade there. I still wonder if we should offload Max Scherzer's upside talent and downside age/risk onto someone else for a better SS right now.

[sabretooth]

I should add that a not insignificant part of my objection on Delmon bit chasfh posted was the $7MM contract.

Tough I really don't care to watch him play, if (and this is a *big* if) the Tigers signed Delmon to something like a $3MM deal with the right incentives with the thought that he is a platoon player / bench piece with some upside potential, I probably wouldn't be apopletic. I'd probably be less than happy, though.

I think if DY is on the team they will have him semi-starting, probably in LF. I would kill myself.

[ballmich]

I don't think signing Melky would be a bad thing at all. He's one of the few guys out there that you could both a) get him to sign a 1-year deal, and 2) isn't an injury or age risk. His value is low right now, but I have a feeling that most of that value is the overreaction to the steroids issue. As much as I think steroids are cheating and warrant large suspensions, I don't think they give you that much of a performance boost in that the player's production should be totally ignored. He was a very good player last year, and could be a real steal.

I suspect there are a lot of clubs that would like up to sign Melky on a 1-year deal. That might be a very competitive process. And it may be one decided based upon a factor other than money or championship possibilities. Perhaps he looks to the best hitter friendly park, as long as it's a competitive offer. We'll see, but Melky is probably one of the more interesting FA stories out there this year.

[ballmich]

I could see the Tigers signing Delmon again. He won't be their first choice, but if they haven't signed anybody else by January and Young is still out there not getting good offers, the Tigers might bring him back for cheap to play left field. He's the same player he was last year and they brought him back then, so I wouldn't discount that happening again in 2013.

There is the issue of the incident in New York. The Tigers don't seem to be an organization that likes to take on players with questionable characters. So I doubt they opt to re-sign Young, the same as I doubt they inquire with Toronto about Escobar. I think the Tigers do a good job when incidents come up, but unless it's a star player, it's really not worth the negative exposure when there are generally other roster possibilities.

[will the thrill]

I should add that a not insignificant part of my objection on Delmon bit chasfh posted was the $7MM contract.

Tough I really don't care to watch him play, if (and this is a *big* if) the Tigers signed Delmon to something like a $3MM deal with the right incentives with the thought that he is a platoon player / bench piece with some upside potential, I probably wouldn't be apopletic. I'd probably be less than happy, though.

if they go into the season with Delmon young as their starting leftfielder, it'll show they've learned nothing from watching the team get beat by a sound defensive team in the world series. .250-15-60 that plays good defense is more valuable than the .270-16-74 that Delmon provides