2012-13 Offseason Discussion

[ballmich]

On the bright side, at least all these players aren't joining our division.

[Yoda]

Torii Hunter fits that criteria. Hunter is a plus defender, doesn't block our outfield prospects long term and doesn't cost a draft pick. Tigers have a two year window to win a world series. My biggest pause would be signing a Victorino or a Pagan type and be forced to commit four years. I think we have an opportunity to develop our farm system, which has been depleted by lost draft picks and trades. The way this team is constructed everyone besides Prince is locked up for less than three years.

People were saying the same thing in '06.

[chasfh]

I doubt it, since once a team would let their guard down (Marlins, in this instance); the price for their players would only go down. Plus they raided the Blue Jays system of four prospects, 3 of which are top tier prospects who will contribute. I think they did fine for what they gave up.

I am hearing that the Jays did not give up any of what Fangraphs considered their top four prospects in the deal (Gose, d'Arnaud, Norris, Hutchison), which if true makes it a win for them.

[tiger337]

Tigers have a two year window to win a world series. .

Why is that? They seem to have a core that will last a long time, especially if ownership is willing to continue spending to keep it intact as you said in earlier posts.

[Turnbuckle]

I'd say we have a 2 year window where that window is wide-open; anything beyond that is questionable. Grim as it may be, I'd say the window is only certain for as long as Mike Illitch is around and I'm not convinced that this will go beyond a couple of years. We certainly have a core that if ownership and management play their cards right and continue a semi-aggressive approach we could be in contention for several seasons beyond the next 2. But things can change in a hurry.

[MC24]

Torii's a Tiger

[PuNk42AE]

For 2 years

[RatkoVarda]

Tigers To Sign Torii Hunter
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 14 at 11:08am CST]
The Tigers have agreed to sign Torii Hunter to a two-year deal, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter). The contract is pending a physical.

Read more at MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

[tiger337]

Love this tweet from Hunter:

Torii Hunter ‏@toriihunter48 Everybody turn ur TV to MLB network right now

[PuNk42AE]

Love this tweet from Hunter:

Torii Hunter ‏@toriihunter48 Everybody turn ur TV to MLB network right now

Yeah that was pretty funny.

[alwaysthrowheat]

Got some really good leaders in the clubhouse now.

[sabretooth]

Good enough. Hunter will be a likely solid contributor in the corner (assuming RF) with a good glove. Please be prepared for a lot of groundball outs and some double-plays, folks.

[PuNk42AE]

Even if Torii hit's at the low end of everyones guess (around .270) it's still a great pickup, just like ATH said with a clubhouse leader. It should really solidify the top of the lineup now too, which we never saw during this season.

1. CF Jackson
2. RF Hunter
3. 3B Cabrera
4. 1B Fielder
5. DH Martinez
6. SS Peralta
7. LF Dirks
8. C Avila
9. 2B Infante

[PuNk42AE]

Right now the signing is lining up to look like how Kenny Rogers helped the Pitching Staff. Hopefully Hunter can get everyone pumped up and especially help our young OF.

[irvink]

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale
Hunter will get $26 million

I put the over/under yesterday at 25... So if you bet the over, you win...

[MC24]

Perfectly fine with 2/26

Kind of hoping we're still after J Upton too

[PuNk42AE]

Perfectly fine with 2/26

Kind of hoping we're still after J Upton too

Since Hunter signed for 2 years that really does open up trading some of their OF chips for someone like Upton more-so than before.

[John_Brian_K]

Since Hunter signed for 2 years that really does open up trading some of their OF chips for someone like Upton more-so than before.

It opens it up for sure, but I would not do it.

[tigerkid23]

Now just sell the farm for Giancarlo Stanton...please???

[froggyvk]

Mark Simon ‏@msimonespn Torii Hunter had a .449(!) BABIP in his last 63 games of 2012.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

The Marlins will not trade Stanton until 2015 at the earliest.

Book it.

[benrush]

Why is that? They seem to have a core that will last a long time, especially if ownership is willing to continue spending to keep it intact as you said in earlier posts.

With this core I believe you need to rebuild the farm system, by bringing younger players. Tigers biggest mistake in 08 was handcuffed by buying out arbitration years with guys like Bonderman, Robertson, and Willis. Scherzer could be delt or collect draft picks V-mart, Hunter will be off the books and you can make a splash in FA. But I feel the Tigers if they play their cards right should spend now instead of trading away talent. Hunter's signing buys service time years for both Garcia and Castelanos. I would consider signing someone like Brandon McCarthy on a one year deal over signing Sanchez for five. Keep Porcello and stash Smyly in the minors for a couple of months which protects them from an arb year and is nice insurance when someone goes down with an injury!

[tigerkid23]

The Marlins will not trade Stanton until 2015 at the earliest.

Book it.

You're probably right. Still won't stop me from dreaming, hoping, and drooling over my desk at work over the thought. =)

[chasfh]

The Marlins will not trade Stanton until 2015 at the earliest.

Book it.

And they will trade him, because there is no way Stanton signs on with Miami under a Loria ownership.

[4hzglory]

And they will trade him, because there is no way Stanton signs on with Miami under a Loria ownership.

And no way any of the big FA's sign with Miami under a Loria ownership, so all of their improvement has to come from within/trades.

[chasfh]

Oh my god, I just had a horrible thought:

We all remember it being widely reported that the Yankees might offload Alex Rodriguez onto the Marlins this winter so they can be done with him. A-Rod would like that because Miami is his home base, and Loria needs to do something, anything provide a reason to charge major league prices to get people to attend Marlins games next year.

So, my out on a limb prediction is this: Yankees trade A-Rod to the Marlins for Giancarlo Stanton. Other parts will be involved, of course, like cash from the Yankees to the Marlins, but this would be the core of that trade.

Anyone want to take me up on this for a buck?

[benrush]

People were saying the same thing in '06.

Except the Tigers chose to commit long term on Granderson, Bonderman, Sheffield, Robertson, and others while ignoring free agents for the most part. They traded away the farm and then got hamstrung when the players they signed didn't live up to the contacts and didn't have internal options in place!

[Nastradamus]

Why in the world would the Marlins want Porcello? He's already lost 4 years of team control, already makes 3M a year, and is about to get another raise. This isn't the type of player they're pursuing.

Because 3 mil is 13 mil a year less than Buehrle makes and they probalby could have gotten the same package from Toronto without Buehrle involved? That'd be my best guess.

[Nastradamus]

Oh my god, I just had a horrible thought:

We all remember it being widely reported that the Yankees might offload Alex Rodriguez onto the Marlins this winter so they can be done with him. A-Rod would like that because Miami is his home base, and Loria needs to do something, anything provide a reason to charge major league prices to get people to attend Marlins games next year.

So, my out on a limb prediction is this: Yankees trade A-Rod to the Marlins for Giancarlo Stanton. Other parts will be involved, of course, like cash from the Yankees to the Marlins, but this would be the core of that trade.

Anyone want to take me up on this for a buck?

There is just zero chance of this. Zero. Could A-Rod go to Miami? Maybe, but highly doubtful. Would Stanton go the other way? Not a chance in hell, not even if the Yanks' top 5 prospects were involved.

[chasfh]

There is just zero chance of this. Zero. Could A-Rod go to Miami? Maybe, but highly doubtful. Would Stanton go the other way? Not a chance in hell, not even if the Yanks' top 5 prospects were involved.

There's a better chance of this than Texas seceding from the union.

You're looking at this from a perspective of logic, because this is how you yourself would look at it as a GM. You would never make that deal. But Jeffrey Loria doesn't operate on the same plane of logic as you do.

I don't guarantee this is going to happen, which is why I call it an out on a limb prediction. But it could make sense in Loria's head that getting a big name with local ties will make everything all better with the fan base and all will be forgiven for last night. I'm not saying fans would forgive him. I'm saying this might be the way Loria sees it.

[Vonlenska]

Oh my god, I just had a horrible thought:

We all remember it being widely reported that the Yankees might offload Alex Rodriguez onto the Marlins this winter so they can be done with him. A-Rod would like that because Miami is his home base, and Loria needs to do something, anything provide a reason to charge major league prices to get people to attend Marlins games next year.

So, my out on a limb prediction is this: Yankees trade A-Rod to the Marlins for Giancarlo Stanton. Other parts will be involved, of course, like cash from the Yankees to the Marlins, but this would be the core of that trade.

Anyone want to take me up on this for a buck?

lol

no way. I mean it's the Marlins, but why would they trade their best player to the Yankees for a 38 y/o A-Rod still owed like 150m? The Marlins wouldn't take Rodriguez for free, much less for their best player.

Reyes, Johnson and Buerhle, without looking at it, through the ends of their contracts, barely make more than Rodriguez is still owed.

That is 100% unlikely.

[Nastradamus]

He might see it that way, but the Yanks would give A-ROd away. You can't get Stanton for him, even the worst owner in the world wouldn't do that. Texas seceding has a better shot. I know you are being tongue in cheek to some degree, but its just impossible.

[Vonlenska]

okay 114m, just looked. still.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Anyone want to take me up on this for a buck?

I will, because the Marlins will not trade Stanton until 2015 at the earliest.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

You're looking at this from a perspective of logic, because this is how you yourself would look at it as a GM. You would never make that deal. But Jeffrey Loria doesn't operate on the same plane of logic as you do.

Please educate me on the plane of logic Loria operates from. Everything considered, I think he is a guy all about making the buck. How does trading Stanton for A-Rod accomplish that?

[Shelton]

I thi k why te marlins did is extremely smart as a baseball move. The team they had, after spending big and before any trades, was pretty much terrible. Why continue paying high salaries just so you can win 75 games the next 2-3 years.

They home grown players they trade were a declining Hanley, declining Johnson with one year left, and expiring anibal. Everyone else they signed and flipped for prospects.

They made a very small investment last offseason and were able to substantially bolster their farm system.

They were going to win in 2013-14 anyway. They have a chance now in 2013 to see which of these prospects develop, and they can supplement going forward with free agents as needed.

Free agents will still sign there. In the vast majority of cases, money talks, just like it did last offseason when Miami spent big.

I just really like how they purchased assets (which every team can do) and turned that into a stronger farm system. It isn't much different than paying over slot for draft picks, except you have had a chance to evaluate the prospect professionally first.

[benrush]

I thi k why te marlins did is extremely smart as a baseball move. The team they had, after spending big and before any trades, was pretty much terrible. Why continue paying high salaries just so you can win 75 games the next 2-3 years.

They home grown players they trade were a declining Hanley, declining Johnson with one year left, and expiring anibal. Everyone else they signed and flipped for prospects.

They made a very small investment last offseason and were able to substantially bolster their farm system.

They were going to win in 2013-14 anyway. They have a chance now in 2013 to see which of these prospects develop, and they can supplement going forward with free agents as needed.

Free agents will still sign there. In the vast majority of cases, money talks, just like it did last offseason when Miami spent big.

I just really like how they purchased assets (which every team can do) and turned that into a stronger farm system. It isn't much different than paying over slot for draft picks, except you have had a chance to evaluate the prospect professionally first.

Just looking at the baseball side of things I agree ... However, what they have done to that city is a disgrace. I still believe they must have paid off politicans to leverage that stadium deal so one sided in their favor. And what they promised in return, was increased revenue on sales tax, building up the area around the stadium with more businesses and a desire to win. Great, they made a pure baseball move that allienates the fans even more and all but kills baseball in that city and gurantees a no different outlook in terms of fans than when they played at their football stadium.

Loria is a liar plain and simple. He cried and wined about losing money when the truth is they were one of the most profitable teams in all of baseball by paying low salaries and then collecting revenue sharing profits. Now they are in the same situation except they have a brand new empty ball park financed almost soley by the citizens that they have alienated. Yea great baseball move ... but a PR move they will likely never recover from!

[mavscougars]

I like the Hunter move, but are the Tigers done? I think that they will make a few more moves. What are you thoughts? What have you heard?

[T&P_Fan]

When the city finances a stadium, what is the actual tax hit on a person? How much are we talking here? Miami has a population 400,000 people I believe. The park cost $515 million and the Marlins paid $125M of that. So that leaves us with $390M to be covered by the city of miami and miami dade county. Miami dade county has a population of 2.5M.

Breakdown of the cost:
390M/400,000=$975/person
390M/2.5M=$156/person

So what is more accurate, how are these stadiums actually taxed when it comes to the resident paying for the construction cost?

Edit: And I would have to assume the tax payers were hit with more than 390M after interest, fees and other costs.

[Yoda]

FYI - you can find the answer to all of these questions here:

2012-13 Offseason Discussion