2012-13 Offseason Discussion

**zimm** · 11-13-2012, 11:15 PM

wow, i did not realize just how backloaded the Reyes contract was. $10mm last year and in '13. then 16/22/22/22 with 22/4mm buyout for a 35 year old Reyes in 2018.

just like the granderson deal, this was the time to move him, because his deal gets to expensive to move after next year.

**Yoda** · 11-13-2012, 11:18 PM

22m might not be that bad in a couple years.

**alwaysthrowheat** · 11-13-2012, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by tiger337

Dombrowski should offer the whole farm system for Stanton.

Now this is something I could agree with.

**alwaysthrowheat** · 11-13-2012, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by TheCouga

I was just going to suggest this. Except for not the whole farm system.

They can pick any 4 prospects as far as I'm concerned. Smyly included. Giancarlo Stanton is absolutely unbelievable.

**MC24** · 11-13-2012, 11:25 PM

We don't have the prospects to land someone like Stanton.

**benrush** · 11-13-2012, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by chasfh

Why wouldn't it happen? They don't owe anything to the people of Miami. All they care about is the money. So the real question is, what would Baseball's liability be if the team insisted on moving?

Yea and if MLB did this they could kiss any goodwill or publicly financed stadiums good bye. Read about the deal Loria levereged which is all one sided in his favor and the city has a brand spanking new stadium and a bunch of broken promises.

Notice how MLB hasn't approved the deal: They may force him to trade for Arod or something because if the payroll stays this way he will be in front of congress and so will Selig, that how shady that stadium deal is belielive me!

**Nastradamus** · 11-13-2012, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat

They can pick any 4 prospects as far as I'm concerned. Smyly included. Giancarlo Stanton is absolutely unbelievable.

Absolutely, though that's probably not enough. I assume the best we could offer would be Smyly,Castellanos,Garcia and Rondon/?

**Yoda** · 11-13-2012, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by MC24

We don't have the prospects to land someone like Stanton.

Ummm you do know he's a Marlin, right?

**alwaysthrowheat** · 11-13-2012, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Absolutely, though that's probably not enough. I assume the best we could offer would be Smyly,Castellanos,Garcia and Rondon/?

They can have Dirks and Porcello, too. I don't care. Stanton is a generational hitter.

**Nastradamus** · 11-13-2012, 11:54 PM

I don't disagree

**Charles Liston** · 11-13-2012, 11:55 PM

Toronto talking heads say that Anthopolous isn't quite finished. If the Rangers decide that they can part with Ogando, they can have Arencibia for him. Costs the Blue Jays nothing really, they have Travis D'Arnaud ready to move up.

**alwaysthrowheat** · 11-13-2012, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Charles Liston

Toronto talking heads say that Anthopolous isn't quite finished. If the Rangers decide that they can part with Ogando, they can have Arencibia for him. Costs the Blue Jays nothing really, they have Travis D'Arnaud ready to move up.

Arencibia? Rob Brantly is better than him now.

**Nastradamus** · 11-13-2012, 11:59 PM

That might be a stretch. I wouldn't be surprised to see Arencibia drop a 750 OPS from the C spot next year. The Rangers could really use that. I"m not sure what Brantly is going to be just yet.

**alwaysthrowheat** · 11-14-2012, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

That might be a stretch. I wouldn't be surprised to see Arencibia drop a 750 OPS from the C spot next year. The Rangers could really use that. I"m not sure what Brantly is going to be just yet.

Arencibia had a .275 OBP and had a 18/108 K/BB ratio this year.

**Shinzaki** · 11-14-2012, 12:06 AM

The Smyly, Garcia, Castellanos package that was deemed good enough by some to land Upton...if Arizona added to it... wouldn't be enough for Stanton alone? Castellanos is from Miami and Avi looks like Miguel. You could tell the fans in Miami he IS Miguel. I think it would work...

**benrush** · 11-14-2012, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by Shinzaki

The Smyly, Garcia, Castellanos package that was deemed good enough by some to land Upton...if Arizona added to it... wouldn't be enough for Stanton alone? Castellanos is from Miami and Avi looks like Miguel. You could tell the fans in Miami he IS Miguel. I think it would work...

If they put him on the block I'd expect the Rangers to get him. They could package Profor, Martin and Olt and would barely blink and replace their superstar with a better cheaper version without the risk!

**sabretooth** · 11-14-2012, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Shinzaki

The Smyly, Garcia, Castellanos package that was deemed good enough by some to land Upton...if Arizona added to it... wouldn't be enough for Stanton alone?

Perhaps that's because Upton is a nice player while Stanton is out of this world hitting-wise.

**benrush** · 11-14-2012, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat

They can have Dirks and Porcello, too. I don't care. Stanton is a generational hitter.

I still lean more to the side of Ryan Howard then Miguel Cabrera. Great slugger but the K and walk rates are pretty bad for a player of his ilk.

**TheCouga** · 11-14-2012, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by tiger337

Not literally of course, but DD could trade away their top three or four prospects and I wouldn't question it at all.

The main reason I said that was because it's the Marlins we're dealing with here. Start out by offering "top prospect" Andy Oliver, and go from there.

Really, though, I'd offer them anyone but Smyly. They can have Castellanos, Garcia, Rondon, Porcello/Scherzer and whoever other prospects they might want. I am very high on Smyly and we have no reason to trade him, as he is ready to perform next year.

**froggyvk** · 11-14-2012, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by berneree

Can Reyes and Buerhle void their deals and become free agents now? Since they are being traded within 1-year of signing a multi-year deal?

No. Apparently Pujols to Miami fell apart because the Marlins wouldn't give him a no-trade clause (club policy). Those guys had to know this was a possibility. Unfortunate for them, but they're still getting paid, and they'll be playing for a pretty good team in 2013.

**mmwatkin** · 11-14-2012, 12:39 AM

The Marlins have no need to move Stanton. Lets look at who was traded...

Josh Johnson - $13.75M due in '13. FA for '14
Mark Buehrle - $12M due in '13. $18M due in '14. $19M due in '15
Jose Reyes - A ton of money due through the '17 season
John Buck - FA in '14

Stanton will make $500k next year and doesn't hit Free Agency until the 2017 season.

**STLTiger69** · 11-14-2012, 12:51 AM

Can I ask a honest question about the Marlins Blue Jays deal?

Is anyone else thinking that the Marlins could have probably gotten a better deal by trading the players piecemeal (Reyes goes to team Z, Johnson goes to team X) rather than the whole group together in one big swap?

With virtually no shortstops available except Drew via free agency, Reyes alone would have been a large chip to deal. My thought is the Marlins wanted to get this deal done and as quickly and as quietly as possible so the baseball fans don't talk about the Marlins fire sale for the whole off season. One trade-done....

**alwaysthrowheat** · 11-14-2012, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by mmwatkin

The Marlins have no need to move Stanton. Lets look at who was traded...

Josh Johnson - $13.75M due in '13. FA for '14
Mark Buehrle - $12M due in '13. $18M due in '14. $19M due in '15
Jose Reyes - A ton of money due through the '17 season
John Buck - FA in '14

Stanton will make $500k next year and doesn't hit Free Agency until the 2017 season.

He may not want to be there.

**alwaysthrowheat** · 11-14-2012, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by TheCouga

The main reason I said that was because it's the Marlins we're dealing with here. Start out by offering "top prospect" Andy Oliver, and go from there.

Really, though, I'd offer them anyone but Smyly. They can have Castellanos, Garcia, Rondon, Porcello/Scherzer and whoever other prospects they might want. I am very high on Smyly and we have no reason to trade him, as he is ready to perform next year.

That's nice about Smyly. I like him too. Stanton should be a .925-1.000 OPS guy the next 8-10 years. They can have whomever they please.

**alwaysthrowheat** · 11-14-2012, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by benrush

I still lean more to the side of Ryan Howard then Miguel Cabrera. Great slugger but the K and walk rates are pretty bad for a player of his ilk.

Stanton just completed his age 22 season and has 3 years under his belt. Ryan Howard was a 25 year old rookie. No comparison.

**pyrotigers** · 11-14-2012, 01:26 AM

Stanton is (afaik) a solid defender in the outfield as well, while Howard is essentially a lumbering oaf

**ben9753** · 11-14-2012, 01:48 AM

Howard is more like Adam Dunn. Stanton is more like Cabrera. They're not even in the same category. Not to mention Stanton is a plus outfielder. If I was starting a team today and I could choose one player, it would be Stanton or Trout. Which, come to think about it, would be a fun thread topic.

**catswithbats** · 11-14-2012, 02:25 AM

I will trade almost anyone for Stanton. Castellanos, Garcia, Smyly, Porcello, whoever, send them to the Marlins. If they want the Pope, I'll figure out a way to get them the Pope too.

**alwaysthrowheat** · 11-14-2012, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by ben9753

Howard is more like Adam Dunn. Stanton is more like Cabrera. They're not even in the same category. Not to mention Stanton is a plus outfielder. If I was starting a team today and I could choose one player, it would be Stanton or Trout. Which, come to think about it, would be a fun thread topic.

Harper is in the discussion, too.

**cruzer1** · 11-14-2012, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by STLTiger69

Can I ask a honest question about the Marlins Blue Jays deal?

Is anyone else thinking that the Marlins could have probably gotten a better deal by trading the players piecemeal (Reyes goes to team Z, Johnson goes to team X) rather than the whole group together in one big swap?

With virtually no shortstops available except Drew via free agency, Reyes alone would have been a large chip to deal. My thought is the Marlins wanted to get this deal done and as quickly and as quietly as possible so the baseball fans don't talk about the Marlins fire sale for the whole off season. One trade-done....

I doubt it, since once a team would let their guard down (Marlins, in this instance); the price for their players would only go down. Plus they raided the Blue Jays system of four prospects, 3 of which are top tier prospects who will contribute. I think they did fine for what they gave up.

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 11-14-2012, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat

He may not want to be there.

I don't think that will motivate the Marlins to move Stanton until a year before he hits free agency.

**EppOnite** · 11-14-2012, 07:59 AM

When comparing potential free agent signings or trade targets for the Tigers; can we please compare more than OPS, RBI, and every other offensive stat. I know it's been a couple weeks since there has been baseball, but please don't forget the Tigers own one of the largest outfields in the major leagues. Therefore defense and speed should also be considered. Thanks

**cruzer1** · 11-14-2012, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by EppOnite

When comparing potential free agent signings or trade targets for the Tigers; can we please compare more than OPS, RBI, and every other offensive stat. I know it's been a couple weeks since there has been baseball, but please don't forget the Tigers own one of the largest outfields in the major leagues. Therefore defense and speed should also be considered. Thanks

The Yankees played great defense during the ALCS. Thanks.

**ROMAD1** · 11-14-2012, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

San Juan has a lot of major corporations? I kinda wonder if any of the "poor south" countries could sustain a team. I'm sure Hugo Chavez would love having a team in Caracas.

Vancouver maybe? Montreal is kinda steamed about losing the expos...

My friend the Expos fan reminded me of this history. GD if I were an Expos fan I would want Loria to go to the same plane of Hell reserved for the Art Models and Bob Irsays.

How Jeffrey Loria Destroyed the Montreal Expos/Washington Nationals | Bleacher Report

**KleShreen** · 11-14-2012, 09:46 AM

I wish the Tigers would have offered Porcello straight up for Buehrle if the Marlins were just going all fire-sale.

**Yoda** · 11-14-2012, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by KleShreen

I wish the Tigers would have offered Porcello straight up for Buehrle if the Marlins were just going all fire-sale.

Why in the world would the Marlins want Porcello? He's already lost 4 years of team control, already makes 3M a year, and is about to get another raise. This isn't the type of player they're pursuing.

**EppOnite** · 11-14-2012, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by cruzer1

The Yankees played great defense during the ALCS. Thanks.

Did they? That's great if they did (or didn't?).

I am talking about off-setting the Tigers strengths and weaknesses not the Yankees. Yes the team's offensive production from their outfield corners was awful. But any of the higher end free agent outfielders who can play defense and also have speed- can also hit OK. Add that with hopefully a full season of Dirks and that stat is much improved. So that is why much much more than offense needs to be considered. Even Al Kaline came out publicly to say that this team needs more rounded players.

**KleShreen** · 11-14-2012, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Yoda

Why in the world would the Marlins want Porcello? He's already lost 4 years of team control, already makes 3M a year, and is about to get another raise. This isn't the type of player they're pursuing.

I wish the Tigers would have offered Smyly/Crosby/Oliver/any starting pitcher in the organization besides our top three straight up for Buehrle if the Marlins were just going all fire-sale.

**benrush** · 11-14-2012, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by EppOnite

Did they? That's great if they did (or didn't?).

I am talking about off-setting the Tigers strengths and weaknesses not the Yankees. Yes the team's offensive production from their outfield corners was awful. But any of the higher end free agent outfielders who can play defense and also have speed- can also hit OK. Add that with hopefully a full season of Dirks and that stat is much improved. So that is why much much more than offense needs to be considered. Even Al Kaline came out publicly to say that this team needs more rounded players.

Torii Hunter fits that criteria. Hunter is a plus defender, doesn't block our outfield prospects long term and doesn't cost a draft pick. Tigers have a two year window to win a world series. My biggest pause would be signing a Victorino or a Pagan type and be forced to commit four years. I think we have an opportunity to develop our farm system, which has been depleted by lost draft picks and trades. The way this team is constructed everyone besides Prince is locked up for less than three years.

**ballmich** · 11-14-2012, 11:13 AM

Wow, that's a big trade. Talk about a salary dump. This is like the Sux white-flag trade of 1997, only the Marlins are waving the flag before the season even starts. I expect they'll try to flip Escobar now.

Man, this trade was **** for my fantasy team too. Damn you Loria, guys like you are destroying this game.