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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    How is that not a conversation ender?
    Because it will get ignored just like the previous posts using fact.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    How is that not a conversation ender?
    Remember in the movie Tin Cup when they had the longest drive contest? Yah. That right there.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir View Post
    So, do the Tigers dare offer arbitration to get a draft pick? I guess no, doesn't seem like Dombrowski's style. But I think I might consider it.
    I think the chances DD offers Delmon arbitration are somewhere between hell no and absolute zero.

    The double benefit here is that Delmon is playing well, helping the organization win now, and is almost certain to leave, helping the organization win later.

  4. #124
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  5. #125
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    Delmon is basically your typical trailer park girlfriend. Can't cook, can't clean, doesn't have a brain in her head, but she's kind of cute from a distance, so about 2% of this board is proud to walk around town with her, for whatever reason. I prefer women who can do more than just smile and look cute for about 1 out of every 6 months. Cooking, walking, cleaning, hitting more consistently, and being able to play a little defense in the bedroom.

    There are VERY FEW complete packages. But only having one good quality is a little boring to me. It is nice that she at least shows up when you need her the most, so there's that.
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  6. #126
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    My neighbor thinks I'm following or even stalking her, she is worried that I may be obsessed with her and any time she hears a noise in her house she is...purified? Oh, wait: petrified. Sorry, it's not easy reading a diary through binoculars from a tree.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Delmon is basically your typical trailer park girlfriend. Can't cook, can't clean, doesn't have a brain in her head, but she's kind of cute from a distance, so about 2% of this board is proud to walk around town with her, for whatever reason. I prefer women who can do more than just smile and look cute for about 1 out of every 6 months. Cooking, walking, cleaning, hitting more consistently, and being able to play a little defense in the bedroom.

    There are VERY FEW complete packages. But only having one good quality is a little boring to me. It is nice that she at least shows up when you need her the most, so there's that.
    Well done Yoda.

  8. #128
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    Delmon's older sister is better looking, but messes with your mind and leaves you as soon as she gets what she wants.
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir View Post
    So, do the Tigers dare offer arbitration to get a draft pick? I guess no, doesn't seem like Dombrowski's style. But I think I might consider it.
    The qualifed offer amount the Tigers would have to offer Delmon Young $13.3M and Young would have to turn it down and sign with another team in order for the Tigers to get a draft pick. To complicate matters, Willie Horton says Delmon Young likes it in Detroit so if the Tigers offer Young a one year raise from $6.75M to $13.3M, he may very well take it!

    I just think the possibility of paying $13.3M for Delmon Young for the 2013 season is a too much of a gamble for the Tigers to take.
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    The qualifed offer amount the Tigers would have to offer Delmon Young $13.3M and Young would have to turn it down and sign with another team in order for the Tigers to get a draft pick. To complicate matters, Willie Horton says Delmon Young likes it in Detroit so if the Tigers offer Young a one year raise from $6.75M to $13.3M, he may very well take it!

    I just think the possibility of paying $13.3M for Delmon Young for the 2013 season is a too much of a gamble for the Tigers to take.
    Delmon is going to be hard pressed to get 13MM total, let alone for one season.

  11. #131
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    I wouldn't pay much more than 1.33 MM for Delmon.

    Bench Players that can only hit LHP and nothing else aren't worth that much. See, also: Thames, Marcus

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    I wouldn't pay much more than 1.33 MM for Delmon.

    Bench Players that can only hit LHP and nothing else aren't worth that much. See, also: Thames, Marcus
    Horton basically said he's a better player than he shows because his attention wanders. If a guy can't keep his concentration up playing for a potential playoff team in his contract year, and playing for managers as intense as Ron Gardenhire and laid back and Jim Leyland, then what else is anyone supposed to do for him?
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  13. #133
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    Delmon is what he is at this point.

    Whatever wasted potential he has is irrelevant to his value as a player unless one has reason to believe they can tap into it.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    There were 21 batters in the AL who had 200 or more AB and DHed in 2012.

    Delmon Young was:

    6th in plate appearances

    14th in batting average

    20th in OBP

    19th in SLG

    9th in HR (tied with 4 other men) Note: Delmon had more plate appearances than everyone he is tied with as well as everyone below him except for Michael Young and Joe Mauer.

    14th in runs - Everyone below him except for Jesus Montero had far fewer plate appearances.

    9th in RBI - Young, A-Rod and Montero had comparible AB and fewer RBI, everyone else below him had fewer RBI as a result of far fewer plate appearances

    BB% - Not only last, but it is only 60% of the next worst guy(!)

    K% - 12th

    ISO - 17th

    wOBA - 19th

    wRC+ - 20th
    I'm trying to figure out your methodology on this, Delmon Young started 116 games at DH this year and 29 in LF, and your going to compare him with every player who had over 200 AB's and say what, 1 game at DH (5,10,25 games at DH)?

    Joe Mauer that leads your list had 72 games as a catcher, 30 games at 1st base and 42 at DH (that's 114 in the field, 42 at DH). Let's not forget that totally amazing Evan Longoria and his 25 games started at DH and his 49 games started at 3B. A-Rod, yea, his 81 games at 3B and 38 games started as a DH really makes him basically a full time DH too right? Even Adam Dunn, started 93 games as a DH, 52 at 1B and 5 games in the outfield.

    I understand that Joe Mauer is a better hitter than Delmon Young, no contest there. But truthfully Joe Mauer is going to make a lot of other hitters look bad too. Also keep in mind that Delmon Young is costing the Tigers $6.75M for 2012. Adam Dunn is costing $14M, Joe Mauer $23M and don't forget A-Rod's $29M. Before V-Mart blew out his knee he was inked to be paid $13M for this year so that you would able to compare V-Marts DH stats with other guys with over 200 AB's who also played a game or 20 at DH instead of Delmon Young.
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  15. #135
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    The Tigers could also call up a generic minor leaguer and pay him like $500k to give them production similar to Delmon if you want to take salary into account.
    Kobernoooooous

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    I'm trying to figure out your methodology on this, Delmon Young started 116 games at DH this year and 29 in LF, and your going to compare him with every player who had over 200 AB's and say what, 1 game at DH (5,10,25 games at DH)?

    Joe Mauer that leads your list had 72 games as a catcher, 30 games at 1st base and 42 at DH (that's 114 in the field, 42 at DH). Let's not forget that totally amazing Evan Longoria and his 25 games started at DH and his 49 games started at 3B. A-Rod, yea, his 81 games at 3B and 38 games started as a DH really makes him basically a full time DH too right? Even Adam Dunn, started 93 games as a DH, 52 at 1B and 5 games in the outfield.
    If you are only going to compare Young to full-time DHs, then it's going to be a really short list with him and Luke Scott competing for the bottom spot.

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  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    The Tigers could also call up a generic minor leaguer and pay him like $500k to give them production similar to Delmon if you want to take salary into account.
    We did, their names were Quintin Berry, Matt Young and Brad Eldred. Which one of those was the ALCS MVP this year?
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  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    We did, their names were Quintin Berry, Matt Young and Brad Eldred. Which one of those was the ALCS MVP this year?
    One of those players arguably did more to help the Tigers get to the ALCS than Young.
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    One of those players arguably did more to help the Tigers get to the ALCS than Young.
    Man! Why does everyone here like Matt Young so much!
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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    One of those players arguably did more to help the Tigers get to the ALCS than Young.
    It's a valid point, but how does the Tigers lineup this year look with Berry in LF and Delmon Young at DH instead of say, Matt Young at DH and Berry in LF? Or how about a full year of Eldred at DH and Berry in LF or Kelly/Raburn/Inge at DH and Berry in LF? Any of that smell better without Delmon Young at DH?

    In fairness, the Tigers did get into the playoffs on the backs of players like Berry AND Delmon Young too...

    You raise a important point.
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  21. #141
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    They could have just had a full year of bad player Brennan Boesch at DH and it would have been barely worse than Delmon for a fraction of the cost.
    Kobernoooooous

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    They could have just had a full year of bad player Brennan Boesch at DH and it would have been barely worse than Delmon for a fraction of the cost.
    Well, tell me what you think;

    Delmon Young

    Split G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB
    as LF 30 110 15 33 7 1 5 15 3 22 .300 .336 .518 .854 57
    as DH 118 461 43 120 20 0 13 59 17 88 .260 .287 .388 .675 179


    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 10/24/2012.

    Brennan Boesch

    Split G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
    as RF 118 458 431 46 103 21 1 11 51 20 93 .239 .279 .369 .648
    as DH 9 38 33 6 8 1 1 1 2 5 9 .242 .342 .424 .766


    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 10/24/2012.
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  23. #143
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    It's relatively easy to find a RHH that can't play any defense and OPS .700-.725. It's amazingly easy to find someone to do that for 6MM.

  24. #144
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    Haven't seen one of these in a while.

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  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    I'm trying to figure out your methodology on this, Delmon Young started 116 games at DH this year and 29 in LF, and your going to compare him with every player who had over 200 AB's and say what, 1 game at DH (5,10,25 games at DH)?

    Joe Mauer that leads your list had 72 games as a catcher, 30 games at 1st base and 42 at DH (that's 114 in the field, 42 at DH). Let's not forget that totally amazing Evan Longoria and his 25 games started at DH and his 49 games started at 3B. A-Rod, yea, his 81 games at 3B and 38 games started as a DH really makes him basically a full time DH too right? Even Adam Dunn, started 93 games as a DH, 52 at 1B and 5 games in the outfield.

    I understand that Joe Mauer is a better hitter than Delmon Young, no contest there. But truthfully Joe Mauer is going to make a lot of other hitters look bad too. Also keep in mind that Delmon Young is costing the Tigers $6.75M for 2012. Adam Dunn is costing $14M, Joe Mauer $23M and don't forget A-Rod's $29M. Before V-Mart blew out his knee he was inked to be paid $13M for this year so that you would able to compare V-Marts DH stats with other guys with over 200 AB's who also played a game or 20 at DH instead of Delmon Young.
    Feel free to use whatever criterion you wish as a cut-off to define a full-time DH. Delmon is going to be in the bottom quartile of that list, if not bottom 10%, for OBP and SLG. So what is your point, or haven't you one?

    And yes, I think any number of guys could have been acquired for (or less than) $6MM to provide similar or better production, especially had the Tigers tried to address it last off-season.
    Last edited by Mr. Bigglesworth; 10-24-2012 at 03:09 PM.

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    Feel free to use whatever criterion you wish as a cut-off to define a full-time DH. Delmon is going to be in the bottom quartile of that list, if not bottom 10%, for OBP and SLG. So what is your point, or haven't you one?

    And yes, I think any number of guys could have been acquired for (or less than) $6MM to provide similar or better production, especially had the Tigers tried to address it last off-season.
    The DH the Tigers had signed for the 2012 season was Victor Martinez, and my understanding was that his injury occured on January 17th, 2012.

    The other "full time" DH's that were, as you say, "available" in the off season had names like Vladimir Guerrero, Hideki Matsui and Manny Ramirez. Jim Thome signed with the Phillies on November 5th, 2011. David Ortiz signed with the Red Soxs on December 7th, 2011.

    My point is that the Tigers really didn't have as many options at DH as you say and the Tigers were not going to trade to get Billy Buttler or David Ortiz to fill in for 1 year until V-Mart's return.

    I'm sure in your mind there were tons of players who were sucessful DH's who were totally available and perfectly willing to sign a 1 year deal and DH full time, like Miguel Cabrera or Prince Fielder offered to do for the 2012 season right?
    Last edited by STLTiger69; 10-24-2012 at 03:45 PM.
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  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    The DH the Tigers had signed for the 2012 season and he was Victor Martinez, and my understanding was that his injury occured on January 17th, 2012.

    The other "full time" DH's that were, as you say, "available" in the off season had names like Vladimir Guerrero, Hideki Matsui and Manny Ramirez. Jim Thome signed with the Phillies on November 5th, 2011. David Ortiz signed with the Red Soxs on December 7th, 2011.

    My point is that the Tigers really didn't have as many options at DH as you say and the Tigers were not going to trade to get Billy Buttler or David Ortiz to fill in for 1 year until V-Mart's return.
    Young wasn't signed as a full-time DH. He was signed as a left fielder.
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Young wasn't signed as a full-time DH. He was signed as a left fielder.
    And Young took the DH roll because Fielder and Cabrera wouldn't do it and the Tigers had other players in mind for LF. I certainly didn't expect Young to be a superstar, but where the expectations were for Young with some fans are beyond me. Some of the other DH's that were available, frankly, were not even around when the 2012 season was over and I don't see Young's numbers compared with Jhonny Damon or Manny Ramierez, just Joe Mauers and Evan Longoria's stats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Young wasn't signed as a full-time DH. He was signed as a left fielder.
    Sort of like how Valverde is still our closer right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    And Young took the DH roll because Fielder and Cabrera wouldn't do it and the Tigers had other players in mind for LF. I certainly didn't expect Young to be a superstar, but where the expectations were for Young with some fans are beyond me. Some of the other DH's that were available, frankly, were not even around when the 2012 season was over and I don't see Young's numbers compared with Jhonny Damon or Manny Ramierez, just Joe Mauers and Evan Longoria's stats.
    It sounds like you are supporting Dombrowski more than Young.
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  31. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    The DH the Tigers had signed for the 2012 season was Victor Martinez, and my understanding was that his injury occured on January 17th, 2012.
    Which makes the signing of Delmon even more baffling, because he is an even worse fielder than he is a fielder.

  32. #152
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    That must make him a poor fielder.
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    I'll be happy when this series is over so we can stop discussing delmon young.

    I don't ever want to see anything that reminds me of delmon young.
    AAT: Ian Kinsler

  34. #154
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    Are we saying that Delmon is a worse Fielder than Prince? Or that he is worse at fielding than being a Fielder?
    Lee Panas
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  35. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelton View Post
    I'll be happy when this series is over so we can stop discussing delmon young.

    I don't ever want to see anything that reminds me of delmon young.
    Does that mean you won't be posting anymore?
    Lee Panas
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  36. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    Which makes the signing of Delmon even more baffling, because he is an even worse fielder than he is a fielder.
    This obviously was a typo and was supposed to read 'an even worse fielder than he is a hitter.'

  37. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    I certainly didn't expect Young to be a superstar, but where the expectations were for Young with some fans are beyond me.
    I expected him to be crappy and he was. I don't think the issue was my expectations.

  38. #158
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    Delmon Young is a bad baseball player when it comes to anything other playing DH against lefties. He should have been non tendered way before VMart's injury and his money should have been better spent, ideally on someone like Dejesus or Willingham.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    Delmon Young is a bad baseball player when it comes to anything other playing DH against lefties. He should have been non tendered way before VMart's injury and his money should have been better spent, ideally on someone like Dejesus or Willingham.


    DeJesus signed with the Cubs on November 30, 2011

    Willingham signed with the Twins on December 15, 2011

    Victor Martinez injury occured on January 17th, 2012

    Here's Delmon Young's career splits;

    I Split G AB HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
    as LF 534 2053 56 308 97 375 .284 .320 .432 .752
    as RF 159 639 13 83 24 125 .290 .318 .415 .732
    as DH 138 540 17 76 21 100 .269 .295 .404 .699


    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 10/24/2012.

    Here's Delmon Young's 2012 season splits;

    Split G AB HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
    as LF 30 110 5 15 3 22 .300 .336 .518 .854
    as DH 118 461 13 59 17 88 .260 .287 .388 .675


    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 10/24/2012.
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

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