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  1. #81
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    There were 21 batters in the AL who had 200 or more AB and DHed in 2012.

    Delmon Young was:

    6th in plate appearances

    14th in batting average

    20th in OBP

    19th in SLG

    9th in HR (tied with 4 other men) Note: Delmon had more plate appearances than everyone he is tied with as well as everyone below him except for Michael Young and Joe Mauer.

    14th in runs - Everyone below him except for Jesus Montero had far fewer plate appearances.

    9th in RBI - Young, A-Rod and Montero had comparible AB and fewer RBI, everyone else below him had fewer RBI as a result of far fewer plate appearances

    BB% - Not only last, but it is only 60% of the next worst guy(!)

    K% - 12th

    ISO - 17th

    wOBA - 19th

    wRC+ - 20th
    Last edited by Mr. Bigglesworth; 10-18-2012 at 11:23 AM.

  2. #82
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    Dude has been a Yankee playoff killer. 5 of his 7 hr are vs NY.
    John 16:33

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    There were 21 batters in the AL who had 200 or more AB and DHed in 2012.

    Delmon Young was:

    6th in plate appearances

    14th in batting average

    20th in OBP

    19th in SLG

    9th in HR (tied with 4 other men) Note: Delmon had more plate appearances than everyone he is tied with as well as everyone below him except for Michael Young and Joe Mauer.

    14th in runs - Everyone below him except for Jesus Montero had far fewer plate appearances.

    9th in RBI - Young, A-Rod and Montero had comparible AB and fewer RBI, everyone else below him had fewer RBI as a result of far fewer plate appearances

    BB% - Not only last, but it is only 60% of the next worst guy(!)

    K% - 12th

    ISO - 17th

    wOBA - 19th

    wRC+ - 20th
    Sooooo, you're saying, things could have been worse?
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino View Post
    Sooooo, you're saying, things could have been worse?
    Or he's due to perform?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir View Post
    Or he's due to perform?
    Hi Mario.
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  6. #86
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    Didn't we have this discussion last October? Young is a lousy player. He is having a good series against the Yankees. Those two sentences don't contradict each other.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Someone did it before ....and I do not have the time right now...maybe later, but they compared full time DH's throughout the league and Delmon was fairly high in all categories.

    I think V-Mart spoiled you last year.
    I really want to see the post you are referencing. It sound like an interesting statistically experiment to try to badly manipulate numbers to make Young's regular season look competent. I'm guessing they went the really boring route and just used counting stats while artificially limiting who counted as a "full-time DH" to people with drastically fewer PA's than Young but it would be cool if they went and used stats like BA vs. left handers during day games in temperatures under 50 degrees to make the point.
    Slowsilver: They did a study at Baseball Prospectus and found out that bionic parts increase WARP23 by 6.7% on average. Back in the steroid era, steroids only increased WARP23 by 4.6%

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordstanley View Post
    Didn't we have this discussion last October? Young is a lousy player. He is having a good series against the Yankees. Those two sentences don't contradict each other.
    Wrong. 3 games against NY clearly demonstrate the regular season was an anamoly.

  9. #89
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    keithlaw ‏@keithlaw
    No way I give him more than one year. "@MurphinStPaul: @keithlaw What's a fair deal for Delmon, assuming he gets 3 years?10 Million?"

    keithlaw ‏@keithlaw
    Before his 3-year deal ends "@buttbbutt: @keithlaw estimate on how long before delmon's convicted of some sort of assault as a hate crime?"
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    2007AT-AAT-Alan Trammell

  10. #90
    Casimir is online now MotownSports Fan
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    So, do the Tigers dare offer arbitration to get a draft pick? I guess no, doesn't seem like Dombrowski's style. But I think I might consider it.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Respectfully this playoff series I'd still go with Delmon Young so far....
    Yep.
    It seems that some here actually hope certain players will fail so they can be "right".
    It's pronounced Canada, and no, I haven't.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordstanley View Post
    Didn't we have this discussion last October? Young is a lousy player. He is having a good series against the Yankees. Those two sentences don't contradict each other.
    It's like de ja vu

  13. #93
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    [Tips cap once in acknowledgement of a good series.]

    [Tips cap a second time to say good bye.]
    There are 30 MLB teams so each one should win the World Series on average once every 30 years.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJBBREZ View Post
    It's like de ja vu
    Or deja vu all over again

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by john doe View Post
    Yep.
    It seems that some here actually hope certain players will fail so they can be "right".
    Could you show one quote that says that?

    Personally, I never hope that any player on the Tigers will fail.

    Young's failings are well known, as has been pointed out.

    He got the job done in these 4 games though, no doubt.

    There is no way the results of any one game can render unimportant or "wrong" conclusions supported by the results of hundreds of games.

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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaymo View Post
    [Tips cap once in acknowledgement of a good series.]

    [Tips cap a second time to say good bye.]
    Aye, aye. Good series, Delmon. Enjoy your impending Yankee contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by john doe View Post
    Yep.
    It seems that some here actually hope certain players will fail so they can be "right".
    lol.
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  17. #97
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    It's amazing. I actually thought she called Delmon a class act at first.
    After replaying it, I realized she said he's a mother****ing *******.
    "I'm disabled"

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by john doe View Post
    Yep.
    It seems that some here actually hope certain players will fail so they can be "right".
    Seems that way doesn't it?
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Seems that way doesn't it?
    Oh you know we just hope he fails because he once called a guy a name.

    These accusations are becoming pathetic. People don't like that he goes through HUGE stretches of being a horrible baseball player. Why is this so hard to get over?
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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Oh you know we just hope he fails because he once called a guy a name.

    These accusations are becoming pathetic. People don't like that he goes through HUGE stretches of being a horrible baseball player. Why is this so hard to get over?
    Probably for the same reason you call peoples posts 'pathetic'.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  21. #101
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    I'm ecstatic Delmon is having a good playoff run. I still don't want him back next year.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euphdude View Post
    I'm ecstatic Delmon is having a good playoff run. I still don't want him back next year.
    He does not have a place on the team. If we did not have V Mart waiting to come back I would want Delmon back to DH next year. With V Mart coming back, Delmon most likely getting a big pay day next year, added with the fact we have a bunch of young OF'ers waiting to come up...leads to Delmon not being a Tiger next year.

    I sure am glad he was on the team this year though and would never call him a 'horrible baseball player'....if for no other reason than out of respect for what he helped us accomplish this year.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  23. #103
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    I wouldn't want Delmon back under just about any circumstances, and any GM who gives him a raise over this year's salary deserves to have his head examined.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    I wouldn't want Delmon back under just about any circumstances, and any GM who gives him a raise over this year's salary deserves to have his head examined.
    But Biggs, he's so clutch.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Probably for the same reason you call peoples posts 'pathetic'.
    Way to dodge the question. Typical. I really feel like you're trolling at this point. Is it really that hard to understand that people don't like his lack of baseball skills?
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  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Way to dodge the question. Typical. I really feel like you're trolling at this point. Is it really that hard to understand that people don't like his lack of baseball skills?
    Feel what you will, but I only speak the truth as I see it. You see it differently and that is fine. Let us not argue on the eve of something special.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  27. #107
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    I'm not trying to poke anyone with a stick, but I wonder if the same caustic words would be spoken about a player like Raburn, Kelly, Laird or Worth if they had stepped in and did what Delmon Young had done and won the ALCS MVP?
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  28. #108
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    Wait...we can't argue on MTS for the next six days?
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  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    I'm not trying to poke anyone with a stick, but I wonder if the same caustic words would be spoken about a player like Raburn, Kelly, Laird or Worth if they had stepped in and did what Delmon Young had done and won the ALCS MVP?
    Yes. Without any doubt whatsoever. If one of these guys were playing DH, hit like DY for the last 2 years, then had one good series, I'd not want them back the same way I don't want DY back. At this point, any of those 4 would make a horrible DH.

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  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Feel what you will, but I only speak the truth as I see it. You see it differently and that is fine. Let us not argue on the eve of something special.
    Practice what you preach, you're the one accusing people of disliking him just because he pushed a guy and saying people hope he fails simply so they'll be right. These accusations are pretty silly.

    I think we can all agree to disagree on whether he's a good baseball player and leave it at that without all the silly accusations.

    I think dumb accusations are what people resort to when they can't settle an argument using actual facts.
    Last edited by Yoda; 10-19-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Practice what you preach, you're the one accusing people of disliking him just because he pushed a guy and saying people hope he fails simply so they'll be right. These accusations are pretty silly.

    I think we can all agree to disagree on whether he's a good baseball player and leave it at that without all the silly accusations.
    Silly indeed.....
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Seems that way doesn't it?
    Any chance you can support the accusation that Tiger fans want Tigers to do poorly with evidence? I take that personally, given that I've been a main person suggesting that Young is a poor player, without once EVER wanting him to do poorly, or saying anything that might imply that.

    Rob
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  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    He does not have a place on the team. If we did not have V Mart waiting to come back I would want Delmon back to DH next year. With V Mart coming back, Delmon most likely getting a big pay day next year, added with the fact we have a bunch of young OF'ers waiting to come up...leads to Delmon not being a Tiger next year.

    I sure am glad he was on the team this year though and would never call him a 'horrible baseball player'....if for no other reason than out of respect for what he helped us accomplish this year.
    I don't want him back next year because he's not a very good baseball player. I don't like the accusations against him either and would prefer that we don't employ players who have committed such acts -- if he is guilty of them.

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euphdude View Post
    I don't want him back next year because he's not a very good baseball player. I don't like the accusations against him either and would prefer that we don't employ players who have committed such acts -- if he is guilty of them.
    And if you go back and read threads from October 2011 - which of course was before the spring 2012 NYC incident - the attitude towards DY and his role with the Tigers by many posters was similar to now.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    I'm not trying to poke anyone with a stick, but I wonder if the same caustic words would be spoken about a player like Raburn, Kelly, Laird or Worth if they had stepped in and did what Delmon Young had done and won the ALCS MVP?
    Probably yes for Raburn. I don't think any of the other players are similar at all to Young or Raburn though. There is a difference between a utility guy or a backup C performing well in the playoffs after a poor season compared to a starter who was terrible during the season having a good four game stretch.

    I'd love for Young to continue his hitting in the WS. Then I'd love for him to sign an extremely lucrative contract to play somewhere else, after which I'll completely ignore his existence unless he is playing against the Tigers (when I'll be hoping he fails completely in every opportunity he has).
    Slowsilver: They did a study at Baseball Prospectus and found out that bionic parts increase WARP23 by 6.7% on average. Back in the steroid era, steroids only increased WARP23 by 4.6%

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    I'm not trying to poke anyone with a stick, but I wonder if the same caustic words would be spoken about a player like Raburn, Kelly, Laird or Worth if they had stepped in and did what Delmon Young had done and won the ALCS MVP?
    Ryan Raburn without a doubt although they might come from different people. Probably Brennan Boesch too.
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  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Ryan Raburn without a doubt although they might come from different people. Probably Brennan Boesch too.
    LOL, tip of the cap!

    I intentionally left Boesch out of my orginal statement because I figured we already had enough firewood to chop today...
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  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Someone did it before ....and I do not have the time right now...maybe later, but they compared full time DH's throughout the league and Delmon was fairly high in all categories.

    I think V-Mart spoiled you last year.
    Funnily enough, this was me. And he was terrible compared to other DHs. That was the entire point of my post.

    This was as of September 4th, and his season batting line (.267 .296 .411) ended up being significantly worse than it was at this point, so remember, Delmon Young is worse than I was saying in this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    Who cares if he's the 5th best hitter? Great, the DH who can't play defense or run the bases is the team's 5th best hitter. Guess what? That sucks!

    Yes, his hot streak does count. So let's include that. He's a DH who's now hitting

    .278 .309 .441 on the season.

    Well, that certainly looks awesome compared to what he was doing earlier this season, unfortunately it's still horrible.

    But yes, clearly the issue is that he doesn't walk. That's the only problem I have with the guy. Well, let's ignore walks, let's not focus on OBP. Sure OBP is the most important skill in the game, but we're only harping on it because we hate poor ole Delmon.

    Let's see where Delmon ranks among DH's in every category imaginable. If you set the limit to 300 PAs or more, Fangraphs gives me 15 players with the primary position of DH. Given the number of teams in the AL, this seems like a reasonable sample to compare with Delmon.

    Batting Average: 7th. A strong start for Delmon, he's average at his best skill.

    OBP: 12th. I know, this is unfair. OBP isn't really important.

    Slugging: 13th. WHAT??????? But I thought we were harping on his OBP! That was his weakness! He has 17 homers fer god's sake! How could he be 13th in slugging. Impossible. Well, he's better than Jesus Montero and the dessicated remains of Michael Young.

    wOBA: 13th.

    HR: Tied for 8th

    RBI: 9th

    SB: Tied for last

    WAR: 13th. Yeah, I don't like WAR, but hey, maybe it will make Delmon Look good. Nope. It doesn't. Stunning.

    wRC+: 13th

    What else is left that could possibly make Delmon look great.

    ISO: 12th

    Line Drive %: 11th. He hits the ball hard right? Great contact guy. Nope.

    WPA: 15th. Delmon's clutch right, think of all those big hits he's gotten. Haha, nope. He's the least clutch DH in MLB.

    CLUTCH: 15th. I don't even know what this stat is, but he's last in it by a mile. Delmon :'-)

    Contact %: 11th. Yep, Delmon sure never swings and misses.

    Out of Zone Swing %: 1st. YES!!! DELMON IS THE BEST AT SOMETHING! HE SWINGS AT THE MOST PITCHES OUT OF THE STRIKE ZONE!!! PRAISE HIM!!!

    Swinging Strike %: 2nd! OH MAN. HE'S NOT FIRST! HE ONLY HAS A HIGHER % OF SWINGING STRIKES THAN ADAM DUNN. AMAZING.

    Fangraphs Dollar Value: $900,000 I hate this way more than WAR but since we're talking about Delmon's salary next year.

    And last of all, as I've pointed out a billion times, Delmon's splits.

    vs LHP: .305 .327 .532

    Hey, pretty good. This guy would be a solid DH. You can't find an OPS of around .850 just lying around. I can see why people li---

    vs RHP: .264 .301 .396

    Right. A platoon DH except he's not platooned and he's making every day starter money. By just about any measure, the only DH's he's been better than this year are Michael Young, an aging veteran who would not be playing if he wasn't beloved by dumb old Ron Washington and Jesus Montero, a rookie playing at Safeco.

    Delmon sucks. Please stop defending him everytime he has a few good weeks. He'd have to be on fire for the entire rest of the season just to get up to being a league average DH. Even if he does that....yaaay. A league average DH. Can't field, can't run, would probably expect a raise to 7 million + next year. Awesome. What a player. What a man. Delmon Young for president 2016.
    Kobernoooooous

  39. #119
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    How is that not a conversation ender?

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