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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    If you could generate one like that for A-Roid I would love to see that.
    You'd be surprised

    Alex Rodriguez Batting Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

    edit: Man STL is fast with those!
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    So Cano has a .700 OPS in 200 post-season AB and Delmon has an 0.820 OPS in 90 AB and I am supposed to overlook the difference in regular season performance and defense?

    Also, the difference in OPS is largely due to slugging. .120 of slugging over 200 AB is 24 total bases. Not to knock 24 total bases, but it isn't the end all be all.

    Biggs, lol...calm down!

    Yes, I'd rather have Cano for a full season and let Cano figure himself out for the post season than have Delmon Young for the full season just to see him do neat things in the playoffs. (lol, your right, you win,...)


    My point is that for THIS post season, Delmon Young is doing it and Cano is not and frankly it's not how I saw this post season going....
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    If you could generate one like that for A-Roid I would love to see that.
    Alex Rodriguez Postseason Batting Gamelogs - Baseball-Reference.com
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by qsilvr2531 View Post
    He's had an excellent ALCS and I hope he keeps it up in the WS. He was terrible in the ALDS and I hope he does much better in the WS.

    The interesting thing, to me, is if you look at Young's posteason numbers he's been an absolutely monster against the Yankees and absolutely terrible against everyone else.
    Maybe the Yankees will sign him.
    Lee Panas
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Biggs, lol...calm down!

    Yes, I'd rather have Cano for a full season and let Cano figure himself out for the post season than have Delmon Young for the full season just to see him do neat things in the playoffs. (lol, your right, you win,...)


    My point is that for THIS post season, Delmon Young is doing it and Cano is not and frankly it's not how I saw this post season going....
    I am calm, FWIW.

    I don't think anyone would dispute the claim Delmon has had a better post-season than Cano, as Robinson is having a historically bad post-season.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    If you could generate one like that for A-Roid I would love to see that.
    This is more interesting;

    Alex Rodriguez Loves; Girlfriends Alex Rodriguez is dating/dated
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by qsilvr2531 View Post
    "he does come up with clutch hits, just not a lot during the season" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the guy.
    When people say that somebody is clutch, I'm never sure whether that's a good thing. If someone only hits when it's clutch that suggests to me he is not doing his best in other situations. I man if he is able to get himself to hit in clutch situations, shouldn't he be able to hit better all the time?

    If you are taking a course and you goof off all semester, but then cram for the final exam and barely pass the course, is that a good thing? Does that make you a clutch student?
    Lee Panas
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  8. #48
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    this is odd:
    Jeter has a post-season career OPS of .838 and
    ARod has a post-season career OPS of .838

    if Delmon wants to come back for $4m to be the right handed bat in a LF platoon, that's fine with me,
    but he won't take that, and that's even more fine with me.

  9. #49
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    So it is safe to say he has performed better in the post-season than with the ladies?
    Doesn't really say if he's going 0'for this ALCS in that regards as well....

    (I just saw that he "dated" Madonna and after my dry heaves stopped,....I just left it alone..)
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    From the looks of most of those women, I would say that A-Rod is in denial.
    "The escalator isn't out of order. It's just temporarily stairs."

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    When people say that somebody is clutch, I'm never sure whether that's a good thing. If someone only hits when it's clutch that suggests to me he is not doing his best in other situations. I man if he is able to get himself to hit in clutch situations, shouldn't he be able to hit better all the time?

    If you are taking a course and you goof off all semester, but then cram for the final exam and barely pass the course, is that a good thing? Does that make you a clutch student?
    You make some good points, but not every player has a Miguel Cabrera deep inside him. I like to think I'd rather be called a "cluch hitter" than, "Well, his golve is pretty solid and he shows up to the team meetings on time...."
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    You make some good points, but not every player has a Miguel Cabrera deep inside him. I like to think I'd rather be called a "cluch hitter" than, "Well, his golve is pretty solid and he shows up to the team meetings on time...."
    I'm pretty sure Young doesn't have to worry about someone telling him: "Your glove is pretty solid". I think I'd prefer consistently good defense to occasional clutch hitting though. At least you can't count on that continuing in the future.
    Last edited by tiger337; 10-17-2012 at 04:06 PM.
    Lee Panas
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antrat View Post
    From the looks of most of those women, I would say that A-Rod is in denial.
    lol, let me digress for a second;

    MADONNA was on that list...

    Let me help your ick factor here,

    In early 1991 Madonna dated Vanilla Ice.

    in the mid 1990's Madonna and Dennis Rodman were dating

    In 2008, Madonna dated Alex Rodreguez.

    Which is pretty ironic because 2007 was really A-Rod's last great season before he went into decline.



    Year G PA AB R HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
    2007 158 708 583 143 54 156 95 120 .314 .422 .645 1.067
    2008 138 594 510 104 35 103 65 117 .302 .392 .573 .965
    2009 124 535 444 78 30 100 80 97 .286 .402 .532 .933
    2010 137 595 522 74 30 125 59 98 .270 .341 .506 .847
    2011 99 428 373 67 16 62 47 80 .276 .362 .461 .823
    2012 122 529 463 74 18 57 51 116 .272 .353 .430 .783
    19 Yrs 2524 11163 9662 1898 647 1950 1217 2032 .300 .384 .560 .945
    162 Game Avg. 162 716 620 122 42 125 78 130 .300 .384 .560 .945
    G PA AB R HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
    NYY (9 yrs) 1249 5476 4673 889 302 960 658 1037 .292 .387 .538 .925
    SEA (7 yrs) 790 3515 3126 627 189 595 310 616 .309 .374 .561 .934
    TEX (3 yrs) 485 2172 1863 382 156 395 249 379 .305 .395 .615 1.011


    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 10/17/2012.



    To which I call this the "Ice, Ice Baby" effect.....
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

  15. #55
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    Regarding Rodriguez's decline, I found this tweet a bit ago pretty good:

    Jeremy Schaap ‏@JeremySchaap

    ARod's slugging pct. in 2 seasons before admitting steroid use: .645, .573. In 4 seasons since: .532, .506, .461, .430.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    I agree....dude is killing it in the post season. He will never get the credit he deserves because he doesn't walk enough and he called someone a derrogatory name.
    He's 8-30 with 2 hr and 1 walk in the postseason. After hitting .267 .296 .411 as a DH in the regular season. I'm sorry, I don't hate him because he doesn't walk or because he called someone a bad name. I don't like him because he's bad at baseball. 2 home runs does not change his years and years of being bad at baseball.

    .284 .317 .425 career hitter.

    I'm glad he's having a good LCS. I hope he mashes in the world series as well, good for him. He's a part of Tigers history. That doesn't make him a good player, it doesn't even make him an average player. I hope he's off the team the day after celebrating the World Series win.
    Kobernoooooous

  17. #57
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    I don't understand the issue. In the context of the rest of the offense, Delmon Young is playing well. Can't one "tip their cap" to a bad player for what he's doing today? You don't have to like him and you don't have to want him back to acknowledge that he's currently struggling less than his peers.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagnam View Post
    I don't understand the issue. In the context of the rest of the offense, Delmon Young is playing well. Can't one "tip their cap" to a bad player for what he's doing today? You don't have to like him and you don't have to want him back to acknowledge that he's currently struggling less than his peers.
    Yes, and that is what most people have done here.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Yes, and that is what most people have done here.
    Really? It's almost always a footnote to how horrible he's been leading up to and including this series. Why is it so hard to just say I'm glad he's come through and I hope he keeps it up? It's well documented that almost all of us do not want him back, why rehash it all again?
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    He's 8-30 with 2 hr and 1 walk in the postseason. After hitting .267 .296 .411 as a DH in the regular season. I'm sorry, I don't hate him because he doesn't walk or because he called someone a bad name. I don't like him because he's bad at baseball. 2 home runs does not change his years and years of being bad at baseball.

    .284 .317 .425 career hitter.

    I'm glad he's having a good LCS. I hope he mashes in the world series as well, good for him. He's a part of Tigers history. That doesn't make him a good player, it doesn't even make him an average player. I hope he's off the team the day after celebrating the World Series win.
    Dudes OBP is .296 on the season. If he walks at a relatively normal rate his OBP goes up to .330 or so which would make him a .750 OPS'er.

    Not great, but I would not call a guy who can OPS .750 a 'bad baseball player' and this goes directly to my point about people hating him because he does not walk.

    Horrible base runner, horrible fielder no doubt, but if he walked at league average he would be a useful player to have.

    FTR: I do not particularly want him back next year...I just think dude gets smashed because he is not a 'good guy'....I hate that....Miguel has had more runs ins with the law than he has, but because Delmon can't take a walk to save his life he gets creamed...continually.
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  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagnam View Post
    Really? It's almost always a footnote to how horrible he's been leading up to and including this series. Why is it so hard to just say I'm glad he's come through and I hope he keeps it up? It's well documented that almost all of us do not want him back, why rehash it all again?
    Three reasons:
    (1) JBK's troll post (second post in thread) set people off. Good job by him.
    (2) A couple people said they did want him back and I think it was fair to respond to that.
    (3) just saying a controversial player had a good series and wishing him good luck would be a boring thread.
    Lee Panas
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  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Dudes OBP is .296 on the season. If he walks at a relatively normal rate his OBP goes up to .330 or so which would make him a .750 OPS'er.

    Not great, but I would not call a guy who can OPS .750 a 'bad baseball player' and this goes directly to my point about people hating him because he does not walk.

    Horrible base runner, horrible fielder no doubt, but if he walked at league average he would be a useful player to have.

    FTR: I do not particularly want him back next year...I just think dude gets smashed because he is not a 'good guy'....I hate that....Miguel has had more runs ins with the law than he has, but because Delmon can't take a walk to save his life he gets creamed...continually.
    If he could hit 50 homeruns his OPS would skyrocket too. He is just as incapable of hitting that many homeruns as he is walking at a normal rate. And that's precisely why he's a terrible player.
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  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Dudes OBP is .296 on the season. If he walks at a relatively normal rate his OBP goes up to .330 or so which would make him a .750 OPS'er.

    Not great, but I would not call a guy who can OPS .750 a 'bad baseball player' and this goes directly to my point about people hating him because he does not walk.

    Horrible base runner, horrible fielder no doubt, but if he walked at league average he would be a useful player to have.

    FTR: I do not particularly want him back next year...I just think dude gets smashed because he is not a 'good guy'....I hate that....Miguel has had more runs ins with the law than he has, but because Delmon can't take a walk to save his life he gets creamed...continually.
    His walk rate this year wasn't that much lower than for the rest of his career (3.3% vs. 4.1%). You are absolutely right though, if he walked more he wouldn't be a bad player.
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  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    FTR: I do not particularly want him back next year...I just think dude gets smashed because he is not a 'good guy'....I hate that....Miguel has had more runs ins with the law than he has, but because Delmon can't take a walk to save his life he gets creamed...continually.
    Very classy of you to say. Tip o' the hat.
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  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post


    ...rambling...
    What you call rambling, I call a cogent argument with a few amusing (to me) bits thrown in.

    I mean how would you rate Robinson Cano as a baseball player with the Yankees this post season?

    If your right, I hope the Tigers find more bad players who happen to hit some home runs in next years post season too.
    Obviously Cano has hit poorly. So what? He's an MVP level talent with the stick and a good defender at a premium position.

    You wouldn't actually be suggesting that you'd rather have Delmon Young than Robinson Cano, are you?

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  26. #66
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    Now isn't a very good time to be a Delmon hater. Random dudes keep attacking me on twitter for saying Delmon sucks earlier in the year. Womp womp.
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  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagnam View Post
    I don't understand the issue. In the context of the rest of the offense, Delmon Young is playing well. Can't one "tip their cap" to a bad player for what he's doing today? You don't have to like him and you don't have to want him back to acknowledge that he's currently struggling less than his peers.
    Well, no, I can't. Because we resigned a lousy player last year on the strength of a short run of good hitting.

    I'd hate to see it happen again.

    Obviously he's hit better in the post season than in the regular year. That has clearly helped the Tigers win. That's a good thing. Resigning him when he stinks overall is a bad thing. Sometimes it seems Tiger management can't tell the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Three reasons:
    (1) JBK's troll post (second post in thread) set people off. Good job by him.
    (2) A couple people said they did want him back and I think it was fair to respond to that.
    (3) just saying a controversial player had a good series and wishing him good luck would be a boring thread.

    1) I don't see jbk's posts
    2) Those people say they want him back in every Delmon thread
    3) Any more boring than another thread dedicated to Delmon's horribleness? Is it really fun to look up Delmon's career numbers for the 20th time?
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    because Delmon can't take a walk to save his life he gets creamed...continually.
    That's not why people "cream" him. People "cream" him because his plate discipline is garbage (plate discipline is more than just taking/not taking walks) and I'm not convinced he has any idea what he's doing up there, besides "swing as hard as he can and hopes he runs into one."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErieTigerFan View Post
    Biased. Too bad. No time to be a Tiger-hater. Hence, your posts hating on one player are really bush-league, bro.
    I don't "hate" Delmon Young. I don't even know him. I don't "hate" the Tigers. I'm a Tiger fan.

    I believe, and have backed up my belief, that Delmon Young is a poor major leaguer. That's just the fact.

    The fact that I'm talking about one Tiger player in this thread is related to the fact that his NAME is in the title. It's about him.

    No bush league involved. Just facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    I agree....dude is killing it in the post season. He will never get the credit he deserves because he doesn't walk enough and he called someone a derrogatory name.
    he doesn't get the credit he "deserves" because he had all the tools in the world and doesn't use any of them to the tune of .270-18-70 every year, batting behind 2 guys with .400+ OBP and driving in 72 isn't that impressive
    Put me on record. Prince Fielder will still OPS 850+ in years 7-8-9 of this contract. (sucks that my signature has to stay this for 7 years now)

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    .284/.317/.425
    .239/.295/.523

    Delmon isn't a better hitter in the postseason, he as jim puts it "gets into one" a bit more and makes it look like it. If dude gets resigned because of this playoff run, it's a bad decision on DD's part and he obviously doesn't look at actual numbers.

    I love that Delmon is here right now because the tigers are winning and he's contributing, but let's not get it twisted, he's not some sort of playoff time all-star
    Put me on record. Prince Fielder will still OPS 850+ in years 7-8-9 of this contract. (sucks that my signature has to stay this for 7 years now)

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Dudes OBP is .296 on the season. If he walks at a relatively normal rate his OBP goes up to .330 or so which would make him a .750 OPS'er.

    Not great, but I would not call a guy who can OPS .750 a 'bad baseball player' and this goes directly to my point about people hating him because he does not walk.

    Horrible base runner, horrible fielder no doubt, but if he walked at league average he would be a useful player to have.

    FTR: I do not particularly want him back next year...I just think dude gets smashed because he is not a 'good guy'....I hate that....Miguel has had more runs ins with the law than he has, but because Delmon can't take a walk to save his life he gets creamed...continually.
    A DH with a .330 OBP and a .750 OPS is a bad baseball player. But Delmon can't do that. So he's bad.

    If Don Kelly could jack 30 dingers a year, he'd be a solid player. BUt he can't. So he's bad.

    This isn't some just Delmon thing, any player who is terrible at a key aspect of the game and not very good at the rest is bad. I could list dozens of players like that in MLB, fortunately Delmon just happens to be one of the only ones playing for the Tigers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by qsilvr2531 View Post
    His walk rate this year wasn't that much lower than for the rest of his career (3.3% vs. 4.1%). You are absolutely right though, if he walked more he wouldn't be a bad player.
    He'd have to walk a LOT more (like 25 extra walks a year) to get out of the "bad player" zone. Even if he had a median walk rate for a DH (9% or so), he still would only be fit to be an average DH, since his defense is so monumentally awful. But of course, this is not going to happen.

    But I say again, Young's problems are not just "not walking". He has the lowest walk rate of any DH with over 600 PA over the last 2 years. But he's also 12th out of 16 in both ISO and SLG, so his power is pretty bad. And obviously, if you consider anything but DH, there's the defense. And the baserunning.

    None of this has anything to do with his off the field problems.

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    You know what? I've called for Young to be DFA all season. And then he got hot during the stretch run. And now he has another playoff run. Do I want him on the 2013 Tigers? No, not if VMart is healthy. But, and I know it's not possible, if we could get him cheap (and I mean really cheap) I wouldn't mind having him around to pinch hit or fill in if there's any injuries. Miggy, Prince, VMart and Kelly can all play 1st base but at 3rd base, we're a little weak at back-up.

    Anyway, if Young were hitting like he did mostly all season, I would dislike him more. Do I like him now? No, not really. But I sure like it when he gets a key hit, or even puts the ball in play. The Yankees inability to turn a DP got him an extra RBI and I will take it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sports_Freak View Post
    You know what? I've called for Young to be DFA all season. And then he got hot during the stretch run. And now he has another playoff run. Do I want him on the 2013 Tigers? No, not if VMart is healthy. But, and I know it's not possible, if we could get him cheap (and I mean really cheap) I wouldn't mind having him around to pinch hit or fill in if there's any injuries. Miggy, Prince, VMart and Kelly can all play 1st base but at 3rd base, we're a little weak at back-up.

    Anyway, if Young were hitting like he did mostly all season, I would dislike him more. Do I like him now? No, not really. But I sure like it when he gets a key hit, or even puts the ball in play. The Yankees inability to turn a DP got him an extra RBI and I will take it.
    yeah, I wouldn't mind him if he was a back-up playing versus left handers only. The problem is he makes too much money for that role and probably will continue to do so.
    Last edited by tiger337; 10-17-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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    Delmon is mediocre with some mean hot streaks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Dudes OBP is .296 on the season. If he walks at a relatively normal rate his OBP goes up to .330 or so which would make him a .750 OPS'er.

    Not great, but I would not call a guy who can OPS .750 a 'bad baseball player' and this goes directly to my point about people hating him because he does not walk.

    Horrible base runner, horrible fielder no doubt, but if he walked at league average he would be a useful player to have.

    FTR: I do not particularly want him back next year...I just think dude gets smashed because he is not a 'good guy'....I hate that....Miguel has had more runs ins with the law than he has, but because Delmon can't take a walk to save his life he gets creamed...continually.
    He's never going to walk at a league average rate, so what's the point of the argument? If any player walked 4% more often than they do, they'd be better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    A DH with a .330 OBP and a .750 OPS is a bad baseball player. But Delmon can't do that. So he's bad.

    If Don Kelly could jack 30 dingers a year, he'd be a solid player. BUt he can't. So he's bad.

    This isn't some just Delmon thing, any player who is terrible at a key aspect of the game and not very good at the rest is bad. I could list dozens of players like that in MLB, fortunately Delmon just happens to be one of the only ones playing for the Tigers.
    Someone did it before ....and I do not have the time right now...maybe later, but they compared full time DH's throughout the league and Delmon was fairly high in all categories.

    I think V-Mart spoiled you last year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Someone did it before ....and I do not have the time right now...maybe later, but they compared full time DH's throughout the league and Delmon was fairly high in all categories.

    I think V-Mart spoiled you last year.
    He was 11th out of 13 qualifying designated hitters in OPS and is below average in every other stat:

    Major League Leaderboards » 2012 » Designated Hitters » Advanced Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball
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