2012 Trade Deadline Discussion thread!!!

**RobSk** · 07-31-2012, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Freehan_1968

So, there's a lot of over-reaction here from the anti-DD contingent.

I'm not part of the "anti-DD" contingent. However, I said at the time of the trade and I'll say again: We paid too much. That doesn't mean we can't win the division. It also doesn't mean that I think the trade didn't help the team. It did. I also believe we will win the Central. However, we gave up too much in giving up Turner for this quality of return.

Rob

**RandyMarsh** · 07-31-2012, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by rhino

I'm not anti-DD, but as things are unfolding, it's starting to look like we overpaid. Granted, I'm not up on prospects around the league like some of you guys, but it seems we gave up quite a bit for a rental and an average 2nd baseman. This may have been one time where letting a few more domino's fall may have been to DD's benefit.

Took the words right out of my mouth, I too am questioning if we paid a little too much or has Turner's stock really fallen that far? Because to me if you go by their preseason rankings it looks like Turner was far and away the best prospect that was traded at the deadline(except for Vizcaino who is coming off TJ surgery) and I'm not so sure we got the best package back. So unless Turner is no longer considered a top 40-50 prospect or some of these other prospects traded stocks have gone way up it looks to me like we may have overpaid compared to what other teams were giving up.

**sabretooth** · 07-31-2012, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by PuNk42AE

Victorino to the Dodgers for Lindblom and Ethan Martin

Victorino, Kemp, Either is good

Seems to me that we could have put a similar package together with a hard-throwing reliever with some issues (Marte) and insert-your-AA-ball-fastballer. I for one would have taken Victorino over Soriano, and certainly either would have been a huge upgrade over DY.

**Hart** · 07-31-2012, 06:47 PM

The deadline may be over but I think there has to be some bats that will clear waivers that are better than Delmon Young at DH...and that we won't have to give up much for.

**Freehan_1968** · 07-31-2012, 07:12 PM

5:14pm: Tigers president and GM Dave Dombrowski told reporters, including MLB.com's Jason Beck, that the Tigers didn't discuss Soriano with the Cubs (Twitter link). "Not once. ... We did speak with the Cubs, but we did not speak about Soriano," Dombrowski said.

**Freehan_1968** · 07-31-2012, 07:18 PM

Maybe we paid too much for Sanchez & Infante.

Maybe we didn't.

No one knows yet, though, do they?

The jury will be out on this until we see what Turner becomes.

I, myself, would rather have put a package together for Prado during last off-season. RH bat, high OPS, can play 2B, 3B and OF.

**Stanley68** · 07-31-2012, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by RandyMarsh

Took the words right out of my mouth, I too am questioning if we paid a little too much or has Turner's stock really fallen that far? Because to me if you go by their preseason rankings it looks like Turner was far and away the best prospect that was traded at the deadline(except for Vizcaino who is coming off TJ surgery) and I'm not so sure we got the best package back. So unless Turner is no longer considered a top 40-50 prospect or some of these other prospects traded stocks have gone way up it looks to me like we may have overpaid compared to what other teams were giving up.

I'm a little confused too in regards to JT's prospect ranking. I've read things like "velocity is down from HS", "arm troubles worrisome" and "doesn't look like a TOR arm anymore" in prospect chats but most of the mid season rankings had him in the top 50. If you go by BA's mid season rankings, I believe he was the highest ranked propect to get moved at the deadline.

IMO I don't think the team wanted to wait another year or two for him to be ready. And he looks more like a #3-4 ceiling guy now.

**Sports_Freak** · 07-31-2012, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by RedRamage

Does anyone honestly believe that the Tigers are one above average player away from the World Series? I think it's questionable that they even make the playoffs (I believe they will, but I'm certainly not 100% sold on it either).

I want to win as much as the next fan, but I also want a decent team 3-5 years from now. I don't want to throw away good prospects for an above average rental when I don't think we have a legit shot at the World Series this year as it is. Too many injuries, too many players having bad years... I just don't think it'll happen and I don't want to see potentially good players thrown away for a rental.

(All best are off if we get someone who can help use for 2 or 3 or more years...)

You know, I agree. This Tiger team is lacking talent at the minor league level as it is. To trade any more of our top prospects would be desperation. And while we're not playing as well as many, many people thought we would, it would be foolish to trade away the future. Now, if you could get an All-Star RF, an All-Star SS and an All-Star SP, do it. It's what we would need to be serious contenders. And good luck with that.

**Sports_Freak** · 07-31-2012, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by 1776

I'm not at all impressed with the Sanchez trade but that's me. I would never have given up on Turner this early. Detroit will probably regret that down the road. I'm actually glad DD couldn't pull off another mistake today.

If Sancez isn't effective this year and then re-signed, the Tigers may have given up on Turner too early. But you just never know, he may be another Miller. Getting Cabrera for Miller and Maybin turned out pretty good. So did getting Max, Jackson and Coke for Granderson. (I guess)

**chasfh** · 07-31-2012, 08:19 PM

I still think the trade with the Marlins could be good for us if Sanchez signs an extension with us, which I imagine is something the Tigers would like to do since they traded away a good chunk of our future for him and Omar. However, there's no way Boras allows an extension until it is seen how Sanchez finishes the year.

If Sanchez is not signed -- and I think that's a not half bad chance, because his body language and tone indicates to me he doesn't want to be here -- then the only way the deal works is if Infante ends up being average or better at 2B, and all three of the guys we sent to Miami flounder, including Turner. Otherwise, this trade is a dead loss for us.

**Shelton** · 07-31-2012, 08:30 PM

His body language?

**RedRamage** · 07-31-2012, 08:32 PM

Goodness... perfect proof one why Young needs to be replaced. Top of 4th, first pitch, ball bounces in and Delmon swings and misses.

**Sports_Freak** · 07-31-2012, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by chasfh

I still think the trade with the Marlins could be good for us if Sanchez signs an extension with us, which I imagine is something the Tigers would like to do since they traded away a good chunk of our future for him and Omar. However, there's no way Boras allows an extension until it is seen how Sanchez finishes the year.

If Sanchez is not signed -- and I think that's a not half bad chance, because his body language and tone indicates to me he doesn't want to be here -- then the only way the deal works is if Infante ends up being average or better at 2B, and all three of the guys we sent to Miami flounder, including Turner. Otherwise, this trade is a dead loss for us.

No. Not at all. If the Tigers have 5 very good starting pitchers for the next few years, Turner was just expendable. Yes, you can never have too much pitching, that's true. His value may have gone up (or down) but even if Sanchez hates it here, it would help make him millions of dollars leading us deep into the playoffs. Can you imagine the contract Fister would have gotten if he was a FA after last year? And I think the Tigers and Boras have a pretty good relationship and a deal could possibly get done before the season is up. It sure would take a lot of pressure off of Sanchez to get something done, ASAP.

**Nastradamus** · 07-31-2012, 10:35 PM

I still don't think we gave up too much. I think Sanchez is similar value to a guy like Dempster personally and we also got the best 2B on the market, who is locked up for next year and cheap. I think a fair comparison would be getting Dempster and Victorino, if Victorino was locked up next year for 4 million bucks. The Marlins had little motivation to move either if they weren't getting good value. Infante would have been a good 2B for them next year and they'd have gotten a good draft pick for Sanchez. Pllus we also moved up in the draft and that could be a valuable pick. Plus they probably sold on Turner before it was too late.

We could have gone for a guy like Pence, but he's really expensive and that's why the Phillies sold him on the cheap to some degree. Who else was dealt that has equivalent value to the two guys we got? Arguably nobody even close.

Not to mention the fact that I think the Sox may fall apart. Danks is out already, Sale has arm fatigue and they are counting on guys like Humber,Quintana and Peavy to anchor the rotation. I don't see it. I can't see Rios keeping up the 950 OPS he's had the last 2 months either.

**Tim Mitchell** · 08-01-2012, 05:55 AM

I dont think Turner will amount to much anyway.
Sanchez will be an excellent pitcher for us should we re-sign him.

**Nastradamus** · 08-01-2012, 11:01 AM

I really don't see us re-signing him, but maybe we will trade Porcello and sign Sanchez I guess.

**macedonian bengal** · 08-01-2012, 12:45 PM

Count me in as one the newest anti DD contingency .
I dont think were good enough to compete with Texas at this point...maybe the other teams, but as of now, the deadline has come and passed and were still stuck with Delmon and Boesch , Raburn and Kelly sucking it up in this lineup. Theres no Damn excuse that Dave couldn't have acquired a better hitter to protect Prince. Good enough, my ***! This is just inexcusable.thanks DD, for basically flushing 2012 down the toilet, after trading away our second best and fourth best prospects. Its like getting stabbed by both ends of the sword. Cmon Illitch, your GM just wasted all of your death bed spending. Please can his lazy shortsighted *** before you die..... sincerely, one very frustrated fan.

**Sports_Freak** · 08-01-2012, 02:07 PM

Peralta had a career year last year and the Tigers counted on him to have another good offensive year. He sure isn't in there for his glove.
His numbers are way down, as are Boesch's. And Avila's. And Raburn's. At this point, all we can do is hope they come around before it's too late.
There's no way we had/have enough talent to interest any teams in giving us the pieces we need to compete with the Big Boys.

It really isn't DD's fault these guys are underperforming. Nobody saw it, all the way through ST. As for Young? When he came here last year, he gave us a boost. But he's another player who has no plate discipline, no speed and can't play defense to save his life.

That being said, does anyone think Leyland should shake up the line-up? I know when hitters are hot in certain positions, he doesn't want to move them. How about when they're cold?
Lead Berry off against RH pitchers and bat Jackson 5th. It sounds crazy, but Jackson has been one of our more consistent hitters. But Leyland just keeps running the same line-up out there expecting different results. As a fan, it's pretty frustrating.

The division can still be won but I don't see us beating Texas/New York/Angels. Not unless a few guys get real hot at the same time and our pitching is more consistent. We sure aren't going to win with our IF defense.

Kelly, Young and Raburn all need to be replaced by players who at least have a chance to help us. When Dirks comes back, I could see a pretty good defensive OF of Dirks in RF, Jackson in CF and Berry in LF. Release Raburn when Dirks returns and call up Nick C. before September 1st so he can be on the playoff squad (if we even make the playoffs). Release Young if Martinez makes it back this season. But if we're way out of it, don't take a chance on Martinez getting re-injured.

<rant over>

**Freehan_1968** · 08-01-2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by macedonian bengal

I dont think were good enough to compete with Texas at this point...maybe the other teams

Texas?

Really?

Seems to me they're in free-fall (by their standards).

I don't see Dempster as the rotation salvation.

I think we should be worried about the Angels, personally.

Ofcourse, before we worry about the Angels, I think we need to be worried about ourselves.

**Sports_Freak** · 08-01-2012, 02:18 PM

Everyone seems to think Boras won't negotiate for a Sanchez extension until after the season. But that is taking a huge risk. If he is totally ineffective, his price may go down. Right now, his stock is at a certain point. If he pitches like Fister did for us, his stock will rise. If he pitches like Washburn did, he will be worth less. And I know what people are saying about his body language, he looks very unhappy every time they show him on TV. But that doesn't really mean much, it may just be his disposition. If I were DD, I would at least contact Boras and see where he stands and see if they can work something out. Sign him to a 3 year extension and trade Porcello for a needed position player(s) in the offseason? We always have Smyly to fill out our rotation. But until we sign Sanchez, or another top pitcher, moving Rick is out of the question, IMO.

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 08-01-2012, 02:20 PM

I strongly suspect DD spoke with Boras and Boras told him to wait until the off-season to make an offer.

**irvink** · 08-01-2012, 02:37 PM

Abreu has been DFA'd by the Dodgers. He's not hitting for power anymore (.341 slugging) and he's left handed, but he's getting on base at a .359 clip. Worth dumping Delmon for?

**Nastradamus** · 08-01-2012, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by macedonian bengal

Count me in as one the newest anti DD contingency .
I dont think were good enough to compete with Texas at this point...maybe the other teams, but as of now, the deadline has come and passed and were still stuck with Delmon and Boesch , Raburn and Kelly sucking it up in this lineup. Theres no Damn excuse that Dave couldn't have acquired a better hitter to protect Prince. Good enough, my ***! This is just inexcusable.thanks DD, for basically flushing 2012 down the toilet, after trading away our second best and fourth best prospects. Its like getting stabbed by both ends of the sword. Cmon Illitch, your GM just wasted all of your death bed spending. Please can his lazy shortsighted *** before you die..... sincerely, one very frustrated fan.

Really? Who is that hitter? Where is the money coming from? Who were we giving up? Yeesh. The guy just added more at the deadline than anyone, to a 1st place team at the time. Texas is good, but come on. We have an advantage at every spot in the rotation 1-5

**RatkoVarda** · 08-01-2012, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Really? Who is that hitter? Where is the money coming from? Who were we giving up? Yeesh. The guy just added more at the deadline than anyone, to a 1st place team at the time. Texas is good, but come on. We have an advantage at every spot in the rotation 1-5

You know. That guy, the one that hits RH, or is a SH, and good outfielder. His team was willing to pick up the $ for the rest of the contract and asked for nothing more than fringe prospects because he likes the Tigers, or hates the White Sox, I forget. Dumbrowski is a fool for not making that trade I suggested. It would have helped the team in the long and short run. Dumb Dumbrowski!

**macedonian bengal** · 08-01-2012, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Really? Who is that hitter? Where is the money coming from? Who were we giving up? Yeesh. The guy just added more at the deadline than anyone, to a 1st place team at the time. Texas is good, but come on. We have an advantage at every spot in the rotation 1-5

YeS, indeed!!
There were several players available up until the deadline
although not all of them were exactly RHHitters... Reed Johnson, Hairston, Pence, Carlos Lee Soriano, etc. SHIZ, even Shin Soo Choo was available, albeit a lefty hitter...the fact remain anyone of these dudes would have been an upgrade for us. Who did get....freakin nobody..yesterday that is.
I was under the impression with the Marlins deal that DD was ready to sell the farm for a stiff birth. Even Illitch quoted last winter that " prospects are prospects" and hes not affairs to trade them for proven players. WELL , im positive well be bitching about Jacob Turner next year. Im ecstatic that we got a solid starter in Anotha, and brought Omar back to fill that black hole at 2b ...but shiz not at the expense of Turner And Brantly. I was fine with Drew Smyly and Turner as our fifth starter. But if DD was gonna make a move yesterday, he had the pieces, and the financial backing to do it....everybody and anybody not named Nick Castellanos should have been available.
Dont even try telling me that Theo would've rejected Casey Crosby and Bruce Rondon for Soriano. That would've been an instant upgrade. IMO
But no, Delmons goof enough.

**macedonian bengal** · 08-01-2012, 04:18 PM

Ah damnit...spell check strikes again
Ill say this...there's no excuse these guys cant win this division the fact that were still behind the White Sox is flat out embarrassing , inconceivable and inexcusable.

**1776** · 08-01-2012, 04:34 PM

The pitching staff wasn't the problem. Omar Infante is no more than a utility player. If you tell yourself otherwise you're lying. Illitch and Company remind me of the kid collecting baseball cards. The kid wants all the biggest names and never considers much beyond that. This is what the Tigers look like to me, a lot of names and a lot of holes at the same time.

**pyrotigers** · 08-01-2012, 04:48 PM

Bobby Abreu was just designated for assignment by the Dodgers, I've been anti-Abreu all season but he's not Delmon Young so at this point I'd take him

**macedonian bengal** · 08-01-2012, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Sports_Freak

Peralta had a career year last year and the Tigers counted on him to have another good offensive year. He sure isn't in there for his glove.
His numbers are way down, as are Boesch's. And Avila's. And Raburn's. At this point, all we can do is hope they come around before it's too late.
There's no way we had/have enough talent to interest any teams in giving us the pieces we need to compete with the Big Boys
It really isn't DD's fault these guys are underperforming. Nobody saw it, all the way through ST. As for Young? When he came here last year, he gave us a boost. But he's another player who has no plate discipline, no speed and can't play defense to save his life.

That being said, does anyone think Leyland should shake up the line-up? I know when hitters are hot in certain positions, he doesn't want to move them. How about when they're cold?
Lead Berry off against RH pitchers and bat Jackson 5th. It sounds crazy, but Jackson has been one of our more consistent hitters. But Leyland just keeps running the same line-up out there expecting different results. As a fan, it's pretty frustrating.

The division can still be won but I don't see us beating Texas/New York/Angels. Not unless a few guys get real hot at the same time and our pitching is more consistent. We sure aren't going to win with our IF defense.

Kelly, Young and Raburn all need to be replaced by players who at least have a chance to help us. When Dirks comes back, I could see a pretty good defensive OF of Dirks in RF, Jackson in CF and Berry in LF. Release Raburn when Dirks returns and call up Nick C. before September 1st so he can be on the playoff squad (if we even make the playoffs). Release Young if Martinez makes it back this season. But if we're way out of it, don't take a chance on Martinez getting re-injured.

<rant over>

Holy carp dude!
Keep posting your ideas.
You suggest dropping Delmon to sixth and it actually happens mere hours later.!!!!
Youre like a good luck charm or something .
Time to break out some Serrano Voodoo dolls!

**Sports_Freak** · 08-01-2012, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by macedonian bengal

Holy carp dude!
Keep posting your ideas.
You suggest dropping Delmon to sixth and it actually happens mere hours later.!!!!
Youre like a good luck charm or something .
Time to break out some Serrano Voodoo dolls!

It would be much better if he wasn't in the line-up at all. My point was mostly aimed at my dislike for Leyland and his croonies.

**Nastradamus** · 08-01-2012, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by macedonian bengal

YeS, indeed!!
There were several players available up until the deadline
although not all of them were exactly RHHitters... Reed Johnson, Hairston, Pence, Carlos Lee Soriano, etc. SHIZ, even Shin Soo Choo was available, albeit a lefty hitter...the fact remain anyone of these dudes would have been an upgrade for us. Who did get....freakin nobody..yesterday that is.
I was under the impression with the Marlins deal that DD was ready to sell the farm for a stiff birth. Even Illitch quoted last winter that " prospects are prospects" and hes not affairs to trade them for proven players. WELL , im positive well be bitching about Jacob Turner next year. Im ecstatic that we got a solid starter in Anotha, and brought Omar back to fill that black hole at 2b ...but shiz not at the expense of Turner And Brantly. I was fine with Drew Smyly and Turner as our fifth starter. But if DD was gonna make a move yesterday, he had the pieces, and the financial backing to do it....everybody and anybody not named Nick Castellanos should have been available.
Dont even try telling me that Theo would've rejected Casey Crosby and Bruce Rondon for Soriano. That would've been an instant upgrade. IMO
But no, Delmons goof enough.

Yeesh, are you freakin' serious? Hunter Pence costs a ton of money and a few prospects. Lee is barely an upgrade and there is no way I'd have given up Crosby and Rondon to get Soriano. Plus like I said, we are a couple games out and made the biggest upgrade at the deadline of anyone. You can't upgrade every position at the deadline. You are completely unreasonable.

**Nastradamus** · 08-01-2012, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by 1776

The pitching staff wasn't the problem. Omar Infante is no more than a utility player. If you tell yourself otherwise you're lying. Illitch and Company remind me of the kid collecting baseball cards. The kid wants all the biggest names and never considers much beyond that. This is what the Tigers look like to me, a lot of names and a lot of holes at the same time.

Actually the rotation was an issue with Smyly getting hurt and Turner not proving to be dependable, plus we arguably need a 4th playoff arm as Porcello has been on and off and his K issues are a bigger problem in the postseason. I simply don't know what to say to the idea that Infante is a utility player. This is the third year in a row his production has put him in the top 10 of 2Bs. That assertion is just flat out wrong.

**alwaysthrowheat** · 08-02-2012, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by 1776

The pitching staff wasn't the problem. Omar Infante is no more than a utility player. If you tell yourself otherwise you're lying. Illitch and Company remind me of the kid collecting baseball cards. The kid wants all the biggest names and never considers much beyond that. This is what the Tigers look like to me, a lot of names and a lot of holes at the same time.

Omar Infante is a ~.725 OPS guy in the MIF who plays good defense. Go look up how many SS/2B have those kinds of numbers. It's a lot less than you think. He's in the top 15 of MLB 2B.

**irvink** · 08-03-2012, 01:38 PM

Carlos Lee should remain an option, as long as the Tigers are not on his no trade list. All Miami was looking for at the 7/31 deadline was cash.

Two chances for the Marlins to turn a quick profit on a sale of veteran first baseman Carlos Lee failed before the deadline when Lee rejected a trade to the Yankees, and the Marlins and Orioles couldn't agree on the cash price.

According to sources, the Yankees agreed to buy Lee for $1 million before the deadline before Lee, invoking his 14-team no-trade list, rejected that trade to stay in Miami with the Marlins. in naother try, the Marlins sought $2.5 million from the Orioles for Lee, a scource said, but Baltimore declined that offer. The Orioles may not be on the no-trade list but it never came to that.

Lee is hitting .290/.353/.399/.752 on the season. He's got 56 obp points on DY and 53 OPS points.

He's been even better (getting on base) during his 24 game stint with Miami, hitting .300/.402/.363/.765

Marlins foiled in two attempts to turn quick profit on Carlos Lee sale at the deadline - CBSSports.com

**Nastradamus** · 08-03-2012, 02:45 PM

I'd take Lee for the right price. Not sure if Illitch is willing to shell out the cash or what though. I don't want to give up a real prospect though. They can have Strieby and cash :)

**alwaysthrowheat** · 08-04-2012, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

I'd take Lee for the right price. Not sure if Illitch is willing to shell out the cash or what though. I don't want to give up a real prospect though. They can have Strieby and cash :)

If he clears waivers, he's only the veteran's min. Florida asking for $$ is just because they want to make a profit.

**Freehan_1968** · 08-04-2012, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

They can have Strieby and cash :)

Strieby is no longer with us.

**tigermojo** · 08-04-2012, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Freehan_1968

Strieby is no longer with us.

He's alive.

**PuNk42AE** · 08-04-2012, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Freehan_1968

Strieby is no longer with us.

He's improved a ton with Mobile. He's up to .214 for his playing time with them! Goodbye Mendoza

**Shelton** · 08-04-2012, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat

If he clears waivers, he's only the veteran's min. Florida asking for $$ is just because they want to make a profit.

If I'm not mistaken, Houston is already paying everything other than the pro-rated minimum, so I don't think clearing waivers matters when it comes to the money owed to him by a new team.