Charlie Furbush

**plantcitytigersfan** · 06-17-2012, 11:03 AM

I took a look at Charlie's stats for this year. 25.2 IP, 7 ER, 12 hits, 31 K's and 5 BB's. Not to shabby. Hey Roger and Jim, do you guys remember in 2010 when we wanted Charlie promoted from Lakeland to Erie and we were told that he was a marginal prospect with a below average curve who was only doing so well because of his age ?

Larry
2012 AAT Brandon Loy

**Antrat** · 06-17-2012, 11:06 AM

Holy crap. This is like a Twilight Zone moment.
I swear to God, I was just looking up Furbush's stats and was surprised to see him doing so well.
I was going to post it but didn't know where it should go.

**Yoda** · 06-17-2012, 11:12 AM

Oh good lord... let's have a pity party for PCT.

He was a marginal prospect in every sense of the word. He's down to only pitching an inning at a time and to mostly left-handed batters. Let's not pretend he's the next Doug Fister... he's doing well in that role but that's all he's going to be in the majors.

**Scottish caveman** · 06-17-2012, 11:35 AM

Is his improvement a reflection of Seattle's player development or his abilities naturally coming out ? I wonder about the ability of the Tigers player development , especially in the upper minors. Seems like quite a few pitchers hit a plateau at about AA-AAA, and the prospects become suspects.

**STLTiger69** · 06-17-2012, 11:43 AM

Furbush's sucess is due to a roll change.

Seattle is using him only as a middle relief (this year 24 games played, ZERO starts) vs last year (10 starts in the majors, 11 games appeared in for Seattle last year). And also keeep in mind, that with 25.2 innings and 24 appearances, that means Seattle is getting just a shade more than an inning per appearance out of Furbush.

**Shelton** · 06-17-2012, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Yoda

Oh good lord... let's have a pity party for PCT.

He was a marginal prospect in every sense of the word. He's down to only pitching an inning at a time and to mostly left-handed batters. Let's not pretend he's the next Doug Fister... he's doing well in that role but that's all he's going to be in the majors.

Truth.

**Yoda** · 06-17-2012, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Scottish caveman

Is his improvement a reflection of Seattle's player development or his abilities naturally coming out ? I wonder about the ability of the Tigers player development , especially in the upper minors. Seems like quite a few pitchers hit a plateau at about AA-AAA, and the prospects become suspects.

Keep in mind Furbush has never had a WHIP below 1.453 in the majors... his 0.662 this year seems incredibly flukey. He won't be able to sustain that. He has has an unsustainable .182 BABIP. He had a 6.62 ERA last year. It wouldn't be wise to be fooled by a couple lucky months.

**C03BRA** · 06-17-2012, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Yoda

Keep in mind Furbush has never had a WHIP below 1.453 in the majors... his 0.662 this year seems incredibly flukey. He won't be able to sustain that. He has has an unsustainable .182 BABIP. He had a 6.62 ERA last year. It wouldn't be wise to be fooled by a couple lucky months.

I thought ERA was a poor way to judge a relief pitcher?

Originally Posted by Yoda

Oh good lord... let's have a pity party for PCT.

He was a marginal prospect in every sense of the word. He's down to only pitching an inning at a time and to mostly left-handed batters. Let's not pretend he's the next Doug Fister... he's doing well in that role but that's all he's going to be in the majors.

44 left, 43 right

Code:

Right / Left 	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	HBP	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
vs. Left	44	1	6	1	0	0	4	3	1	21	1	1	.136	.204	.159	.363
vs. Right	43	6	6	1	0	2	6	2	0	10	4	0	.140	.178	.302	.480

**Scottish caveman** · 06-17-2012, 11:49 AM

You are probably right and I over react to stats....my concern is Turner and the regression that may be perceived..I hope it's just a reaction to the Tiger season so far !!

**MSUBrian11** · 06-17-2012, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Yoda

Keep in mind Furbush has never had a WHIP below 1.453 in the majors... his 0.662 this year seems incredibly flukey. He won't be able to sustain that. He has has an unsustainable .182 BABIP. He had a 6.62 ERA last year. It wouldn't be wise to be fooled by a couple lucky months.

Last year was his first season.

**STLTiger69** · 06-17-2012, 11:53 AM

Just tip your cap and give Furbush some credit, hes been pretty good this year in his roll and lets get back to watching Fister pitch games like yesterday of 6 innings of 3 hit ball for the rest of our season.

**MSUBrian11** · 06-17-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Scottish caveman

You are probably right and I over react to stats....my concern is Turner and the regression that may be perceived..I hope it's just a reaction to the Tiger season so far !!

I'm mainly worried about Turner's strikeout numbers declining. That was a big concern with Porcello going through the minors, and how he didn't have the put away pitch.

**Danjo** · 06-17-2012, 12:02 PM

The best thing about Furbush is his kick-*** name!

**Yoda** · 06-17-2012, 12:23 PM

I repeat: .182 BABIP.

.182

Credit his success to the roll change, but it has just as much to do with luck. I promise his numbers won't be this flashy by the end of the year.

He may be their version of Phil Coke though, which isn't the worst thing in the world.

**Yoda** · 06-17-2012, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Danjo

The best thing about Furbush is his kick-*** name!

I have a friend who is Vietnamese and I sometimes call her Charlie Furbush. She still hasn't figured out why.

**T&P_Fan** · 06-17-2012, 12:26 PM

Just a ray of sunshine today Yoda.

He is a good lefty reliever, that is a fact. He has a meaningful role in the big leagues, better than anyone projected for him.

**Yoda** · 06-17-2012, 12:32 PM

He is, in fact, a good lefty reliever... right now. All I'm saying is he can't sustain that. I just think he will be back to being average by the end of the season, which isn't a bad thing. But he's certainly not good enough to be so hurt over someone calling him a marginal prospect two years ago.

**T&P_Fan** · 06-17-2012, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Yoda

He is, in fact, a good lefty reliever... right now. All I'm saying is he can't sustain that. I just think he will be back to being average by the end of the season, which isn't a bad thing. But he's certainly not good enough to be so hurt over someone calling him a marginal prospect two years ago.

I can agree with all of this. We have no differences on this matter.

**ToledoTigerFan** · 06-17-2012, 12:44 PM

Sample size.

**C03BRA** · 06-17-2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Yoda

I repeat: .182 BABIP.

.182

Credit his success to the roll change, but it has just as much to do with luck. I promise his numbers won't be this flashy by the end of the year.

He may be their version of Phil Coke though, which isn't the worst thing in the world.

His K's have skyrocketed and his walks have decreased.

11K/9
6.2 K/BB

High Strike out pitchers tend to have lower BABIP, but yes, he's not going to maintain a .182

**Sports_Freak** · 06-17-2012, 01:18 PM

I saw Clay Rapada pitch last night and he looked pretty good. Another ex-Tiger who's having some success.

6-0 career? Huh! I know win-loss records are one of the worse stats to judge pitchers by, but it's pretty cool he's never lost a game in the majors.

Clay Rapada Stats, Video Highlights, Photos, Bio | yankees.com: Team

**Dirk Diggler** · 06-17-2012, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by plantcitytigersfan

I took a look at Charlie's stats for this year. 25.2 IP, 7 ER, 12 hits, 31 K's and 5 BB's. Not to shabby. Hey Roger and Jim, do you guys remember in 2010 when we wanted Charlie promoted from Lakeland to Erie and we were told that he was a marginal prospect with a below average curve who was only doing so well because of his age ?

Larry
2012 AAT Brandon Loy

You'd have about 20 threads if one was made for every instance that the "experts" deemed someone an organizational filler or marginal prospect that went on to make the show. The same can be said for the supposed "can't miss" guys that never turnout. Trust the scouts setting next to you, not the "scouts" typing on message boards. :)

I get what your saying though. Regardless of his contribution on the MLB level, he wasn't really considered a remote MLB player a couple years. Kudos to Charlie for becoming an MLB player.

**hueytaxi** · 06-17-2012, 03:07 PM

**Yoda** · 06-17-2012, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

You'd have about 20 threads if one was made for every instance that the "experts" deemed someone an organizational filler or marginal prospect that went on to make the show. The same can be said for the supposed "can't miss" guys that never turnout. Trust the scouts setting next to you, not the "scouts" typing on message boards. :)

I get what your saying though. Regardless of his contribution on the MLB level, he wasn't really considered a remote MLB player a couple
years. Kudos to Charlie for becoming an MLB player.

And I bet I can find 20 instances where the Lakeland "experts" were wrong as well.

So who are the players you're referencing? I'd love to see a list of names.

**mickeyb105** · 06-17-2012, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by STLTiger69

Just tip your cap and give Furbush some credit, hes been pretty good this year in his roll and lets get back to watching Fister pitch games like yesterday of 6 innings of 3 hit ball for the rest of our season.

This is how I have to think about Furbush. We gave a nice pitcher to get a great pitcher.

**Nastradamus** · 06-17-2012, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

Just a ray of sunshine today Yoda.

He is a good lefty reliever, that is a fact. He has a meaningful role in the big leagues, better than anyone projected for him.

I think plenty of people thought he could be a good lefty reliever. Most just knew he was never going to be a good starter in this league which some suggested he could be

**hueytaxi** · 06-17-2012, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Yoda

And I bet I can find 20 instances where the Lakeland "experts" were wrong as well.

So who are the players you're referencing? I'd love to see a list of names.

I can recall arguements here concerning Adrian Casanova for over two years on here for a start. Cameron Maybin and Andrew
Miller also come to mind as not performing at the lower levels.

**Yoda** · 06-17-2012, 10:26 PM

Maybin did perform at the lower levels. Didn't he lead the league in just about everything and was one of the youngest players? He also just earned a 25M contract. I think most of the hatred of him in the minor league circuit stemmed from him not signing an autograph from GrandmaG or something. I never got it.

Miller also performed well. Again, another guy that didn't smile at everyone like Verlander did so they hated him.

But even if they didn't perform, I'm not sure on what point you're trying to make?

**NeedMoreLike84** · 06-17-2012, 10:30 PM

Everyone who leaves the Tigers rules! Everyone on the Tigers is inadequate!

Yoda is the only person who matters in this thread.

**Yoda** · 06-17-2012, 10:34 PM

About time someone realizes that.

**Yoda** · 06-17-2012, 10:44 PM

The simple fact is, and what PCT and Diggler don't seem to understand, is that marginal prospects make it to the major leagues all the time. Teams have emergencies. Just look at the Tigers this year. Jose Ortega was on the team for a couple days for crying out loud. Most of the time, they play for a couple weeks, couple months, maybe even part-time up-and-down for a few seasons (Will Rhymes). It's usually just that though. Occasionally, they have success for a few years. Some players over-perform their projections, some under-perform. It's no exact science.

But to be so butt-hurt over someone calling Furbush a marginal prospect? He was! The fact that he's having one decent season doesn't make it any less true. He may even go on to have a few good seasons. Great for him! People probably need to learn to get over arguments about fringe prospects though. It isn't that big of a deal. There's no need to get your feelings all hurt over it. And the two mentioned above have a long history of this.

Just my two cents.

Rodney King died today. Can't we all just get along??

**hueytaxi** · 06-18-2012, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by Yoda

Maybin did perform at the lower levels. Didn't he lead the league in just about everything and was one of the youngest players? He also just earned a 25M contract. I think most of the hatred of him in the minor league circuit stemmed from him not signing an autograph from GrandmaG or something. I never got it.

Miller also performed well. Again, another guy that didn't smile at everyone like Verlander did so they hated him.
But even if they didn't perform, I'm not sure on what point you're trying to make?

Your memory is faulty and it was well documented in discussion here and the game threads that Miller did not have the backing of his team while in Lakeland due to his arrogant attitude. Maybin played fine at WM and IL. He began his season in Lakeland with heart and skill. Then he saw he had no chance of promotion based upon skill/openings and cut bact to less than his ability. No he did not perform well at our level and it was reported here. I welcomed a change for both of these players as a help to attitude and it took time for it to really work. Never any hatred, just regular observation. Both had the ability and happy for their positions now.

**Yoda** · 06-18-2012, 08:20 AM

Maybin hit .304/.393/.486 as a 20 year old, I believe the youngest player in the league at the time. It doesn't matter what was reported here in terms of production, the numbers are right there. Has a 20 year old ever hit that well at Lakeland? I can't think of any. Granderson sure didn't. He hit .286/.365/.458 and was two years older. He must have really had a bad attitude because he should have been much better than Maybin.

Cameron Maybin Minor League Statistics & History - Baseball-Reference.com

Miller was only there for 41 innings but he left with a 3.48 ERA... he did walk a ton of batters though. He wasn't amazing by any means, but he wasn't horrible. I have no idea about his teammates hating him. Was it one or two people or was it the whole team? I don't have much choice but to take your word on that matter. I never really got into clubhouse drama. There has always been and always will be players that some fans/teammates just don't like. Some are just jerks. It sucks but that's baseball. I personally don't care as long as they play well.

You have to admit, those rooted in the minor league circuit watch the game for far different reasons than people like me do. The locals are more interested in players being nice, saying hi to them, being courteous, they want to feel like they're friends with the players. Which is perfectly fine. It's great that that aspect of baseball exists. That was never me. I never tried making friends with the players (aside from the friendly harassing of Shelley Duncan :)) I didn't invite them to my house, I didn't go out to dinner with them, I didn't get their autographs (except Porcello). They weren't my friends. I wanted to watch them develop into prospects to one day help my favorite team. I didn't care about clubhouse drama and gossip, and still don't to be honest. A bad attitude doesn't make a bad player. There are tons of nice guys that suck at baseball and tons of jerks that are good at it. It doesn't matter to me.

That's the difference between most of the fans here and the locals that hang out at the parks. I'm glad there's that difference, but you have to understand that most people don't care if Miller or Maybin had attitude problems because it probably doesn't hamper their production as much as you think it does. Maybin is a classic example of that. You say he didn't perform well when quite clearly he did.

**plantcitytigersfan** · 06-18-2012, 11:47 AM

Yoda, thanks for the compliment but I am not an expert on baseball matters, and I don't think the other guys think they are experts either. All we are are a couple of middle aged men (some more middle aged than others) of above average intelligence who watch the Flying Tigers over 50 times a year who know the difference beween a good curveball and a bad one, a plus outfield arm versus a substandard one, good range versus bad range. When someone posts a comment that is not true, we comment on it.

I have re-read my post and I don't see anything that remotely resembles me asking for a piti party (whatever that is). All I see is a positive Charlie Furbush post and a comment directed towards two friends whom I have talked about Charlie previously. What happened next is you felt it necessary to make an ignorant remark and now the post is all about you.

You don't like me, I get it. I wasn't impressed with you when I met you in 2008 and I am less impressed now. You bring nothing to the table but negativity and sarcasm. When my stepson was thirteen, if his favorite quote was "up above, aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home", I would worry about him. For a grown adult to feel this way, ......

I don't know whether to dislike you or feel sorry for you. With all the negative thoughts, you must come from a really dark and lonely place. It is comical that in your post you ask that everyone get along, but you are the worst offender.

Whenever I post about the Tigers development staff, your stupidity shows but you never offer a counterpoint to justify your point of view.

Larry
2012 AAT Brandon Loy

**Yoda** · 06-18-2012, 11:56 AM

You did ask for a pity party. That what this thread was for. Hence your reasoning for bringing up a difference of opinions from two years ago.

I have no idea who you are and I don't care if I ever met you.

It's funny that you think I'm negative. A couple weeks ago another poster accused me of being too positive and sticking up for everything DD does. Which one am I? I have no idea.

The quote is from a song. Sorry that it worries you.

I did offer counter-points. Read the thread. A whole bunch of 'em.

**drownwithyou** · 06-18-2012, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by plantcitytigersfan

When my stepson was thirteen, if his favorite quote was "up above, aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home", I would worry about him. For a grown adult to feel this way, ......

Is it because he'd be into those crazy ruffian rock and rollers Radiohead? I can see how that style of music would cause someone to worry about their stepchildren.

The personal level of this post was weird to read.

**Yoda** · 06-18-2012, 12:03 PM

Hell, in this very thread I was the one trying to point out the positives in guys like Maybin and Miller. I'm only negative when I don't think a player is that good. And I usually go by facts and not just observation from the 50 or so games that I might see from one angle at 50-450 feet away from where the action is taking place.

**tigerbomb13** · 06-18-2012, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

Is it because he'd be into those crazy ruffian rock and rollers Radiohead? I can see how that style of music would cause someone to worry about their stepchildren.

The personal level of this post was weird to read.

Agreed. LOLWUT?

FEAR THY THOM YORKE?!

That post was an awkward read.

**Yoda** · 06-18-2012, 12:07 PM

I can see why people would fear this guy.

A creative mind is a dangerous thing, apparently.

**HeyAbbott** · 06-18-2012, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by STLTiger69

Furbush's sucess is due to a roll change.

.

So he gave up on Crescent rolls and now only scarfs Kaiser rolls?

LOL. I am sorry for the scarcasm, but this is the first thought that came to mind as I read this.

More seriously, I think we made out just fine on the Fister deal. There is no need to look back on this.