View Poll Results: Who do you want to get the boot?

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67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Berry

    0 0%
  • Raburn

    22 32.84%
  • Kelly

    8 11.94%
  • Worth

    29 43.28%
  • Young

    8 11.94%
  • Marte

    0 0%
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  1. #1
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    Default Who do you want gone when Austin Jackson returns from DL.




    Wait for the poll

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    I say Raburn, because he sucks.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    I'll go with Worth. He isn't playing much anyway.
    Yes, I was just going to post that I think he has been in one game in the last two weeks, so his taking up a roster spot is pretty pointless.

    However, if I were King, it would be tough call for me as to whether Delmon or Raburn would be the bigger addition by subtraction.
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    I chose Worth because they don't use him. If I were going to be less practical, I would choose Delmon Young because I don't enjoy watching him execute poorly and seemingly unenthusiastically at every aspect of the game. Realistically though, he has a better chance than Worth of getting hot and helping the team.
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  6. #6
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    I realize that Worth is probably the obvious choice since they will never player him, but I say get rid of DY and take our chances that Raburn is going to rebound with the bat, and play Worth more at 2B.

    We already know from 6+ years of major-league play that DY is a poor hitter with little or no power. We already know that he is one of the worst fielders in Tiger fan memory.

    We know that Raburn has been absolutely awful with the bat this year, but we also know that he has a stretch like this each year, and has proceeded each of the last three years to be one of the team's best hitters for 250+ at-bats after he comes out of it. We also know that despite the occasional comedy act in LF, Raburn covers ground and has a really good arm; we also know that he hasn't been the train wreck at 2B defensively this year that everybody (including me) thought he'd be....while I'd rather have just about anybody else at 2B, this means that Raburn defensively is (a) waaaaaay better than DY in the OF, and also can handle 2B semi-capably.

    So clearly Raburn is (a) a far more dangerous hitter than DY and (b) a much better fielder in the OF, and can play 2B if needed. That makes Raburn *likely* a much more valuable player than DY for the balance of this year.

    = Different point coming here... =

    Also, speaking of defense, I get the sense sometimes that people demand perfection from some folks. Last year I obtained a video of the 1945 WS with the Tigers. It had film of almost every play of the series. Frankly, there were a lot of really hilariously bad defensive plays by these two would-be championship teams. Lots of little scrappy hustlers who on a fair number of plays made Raburn and DY look like Ichiro.

    Watching that film for me exposed the shibboleth (common assumption) that players "back in the day" excelled at fundamentals that modern players eschew.
    Last edited by sabretooth; 05-28-2012 at 10:22 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Delmon young. Make Boesch the DH.

  8. #8
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    Worth be gone.
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    Raburn offers nothing whatsoever. My least favorite Tiger of the last 10 years.
    Retired. Thanks for the entertainment.

  10. #10
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    I'll wait a few days and see if Barry plummets like I'm expecting him to. If not, Worth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    I'll wait a few days and see if Barry plummets like I'm expecting him to. If not, Worth.
    His avg and OBP can plummet, but he isn't going to lose his speed.
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    If he's not getting on base, will his speed matter?
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    It would for PR purposes over a Laird, or Santiago move.
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    I think if the Tigers wanted him strictly as a PR, they would have started the season with him on the roster. Just my gut feeling though.

    At any rate, I think he'll do just fine in Boston and they'll send Worth down. I just hope it doesn't turn into another Josh Anderson situation when he does stop getting on base. Leyland tends to fall in love with guys like this and ends up overusing them. We shall see!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    I think if the Tigers wanted him strictly as a PR, they would have started the season with him on the roster. Just my gut feeling though.

    At any rate, I think he'll do just fine in Boston and they'll send Worth down. I just hope it doesn't turn into another Josh Anderson situation when he does stop getting on base. Leyland tends to fall in love with guys like this and ends up overusing them. We shall see!
    Well they did have a dedicated PR on the roster on Opening Day, it was just Clete Thomas.
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  16. #16
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    I'm not even remotely close to being sold on Berry. He doesn't hit anything with any authority and takes questionable routes to balls, like he did on his diving catch yesterday. The walks are nice. If he can maintain, say, a .330 OBP, even with no power, I'd take that and hope the shoddy routes were flukes. If he can't, then he's useless.

    So of your choices realistically, probably Worth for now, but I'd keep a close eye on Berry to make sure it isn't a Josh Anderson type situation. In an ideal world Young would go because his occasional homers aren't enough to overcome his crippling defense and lack of OBP to me. I don't mind Kelly because I think his defensive versatility is an asset, though he's overused, no doubt.

    But I wish you had listed an option for "other," so I could have said "MSUBrian11."
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  17. #17
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    I am pleased to see the popularity of firing Young now. But Worth plays once a week and is a backup for a backup. He's the obvious choice.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    I'm not even remotely close to being sold on Berry. He doesn't hit anything with any authority and takes questionable routes to balls, like he did on his diving catch yesterday. The walks are nice. If he can maintain, say, a .330 OBP, even with no power, I'd take that and hope the shoddy routes were flukes. If he can't, then he's useless.

    So of your choices realistically, probably Worth for now, but I'd keep a close eye on Berry to make sure it isn't a Josh Anderson type situation. In an ideal world Young would go because his occasional homers aren't enough to overcome his crippling defense and lack of OBP to me. I don't mind Kelly because I think his defensive versatility is an asset, though he's overused, no doubt.

    But I wish you had listed an option for "other," so I could have said "MSUBrian11."
    I agree that Berry needs more than 4 games before we anoint him as anything. But I do think you have to be careful with using the word "useless" on Berry at all. This is, after all, a team where the 7-9 hitters (and sometimes 6) are basically automatic outs on most days. While he certainly has to get on base to be effective, even if he does get on just a bit more than Kelly and Raburn, he's way more effective than either of them, simply because of his speed. We are of course a team that has completely ignored the speed game (other than Jackson). While I am a fan of power ball and never want to become the 1982 St. Louis Cardinals, I think that element makes the team more balanced and makes opposing pitchers think about something other than the hitter.

  19. #19
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    Im for staying with the hot hand while its hot. Berry is a marginal 4th outfielder AAAA type but hes hot right now. Use it til he sucks. Elmon I just plain hate and would like to see him be someone elses problem.
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  20. #20
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    I don't think Berry is any good, in fact based on his minor league numbers I don't see how he could even be described as AAAA, therefore I voted Don Kelly
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  21. #21
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    Here's what's funny to me; when Eldred comes up and does poorly everyone says 'he is a career minor league caliber player', but Berry gets the call up and excels under great pressure and we all predict his sudden demise. Of course he'll end up nowhere near .380, but my goodness let the guy play unless he goes drastically low in production. Can't teach speed.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalTigers View Post
    Here's what's funny to me; when Eldred comes up and does poorly everyone says 'he is a career minor league caliber player', but Berry gets the call up and excels under great pressure and we all predict his sudden demise. Of course he'll end up nowhere near .380, but my goodness let the guy play unless he goes drastically low in production. Can't teach speed.
    Quintin Berry is 27 and has about 200 career at bats above AA, he's a career .258 .353 .340 hitter in AA. .249 .340 .294 in AAA.

    Brad Eldred is 31 and has something like 2000 at bats at the AAA level in which he's hit .258 .326 .533. He also hit .299 .351 .753 years ago in AA.

    You can't teach speed true, you also can't teach power or just about any other important baseball skill. And most of them are more important than speed.
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  23. #23
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    I chose Worth. All he's doing is occupying a spot on the bench. Get someone on the 25 that will actually be utilized.
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  24. #24
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    Worth. But I'm still not a Delmon fan.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob2009 View Post
    I agree that Berry needs more than 4 games before we anoint him as anything. But I do think you have to be careful with using the word "useless" on Berry at all. This is, after all, a team where the 7-9 hitters (and sometimes 6) are basically automatic outs on most days. While he certainly has to get on base to be effective, even if he does get on just a bit more than Kelly and Raburn, he's way more effective than either of them, simply because of his speed. We are of course a team that has completely ignored the speed game (other than Jackson). While I am a fan of power ball and never want to become the 1982 St. Louis Cardinals, I think that element makes the team more balanced and makes opposing pitchers think about something other than the hitter.
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  26. #26
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    I think there will be an x-factor not on this list...like Jhonny Peralta is fighting a long suppressed injury. He gets to do a rehab and fixes his swing and reverts to the 2011 Jhonny for July-October.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    Quintin Berry is 27 and has about 200 career at bats above AA, he's a career .258.353.340 hitter in AA. .249.340.294 in AAA.

    Brad Eldred is 31 and has something like 2000 at bats at the AAA level in which he's hit .258.326.533. He also hit .299.351.753 years ago in AA.

    You can't teach speed true, you also can't teach power or just about any other important baseball skill. And most of them are more important than speed.
    To your last line; that's only true when one is successful over the other. Otherwise it's just opinion.

    Berry should get to stay up here until proven otherwise.
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  28. #28
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    Send Raburn down until he shows a pulse at the plate. At least Worth can play quality infield defense and have a little speed.

    Ryan has an option left... Mise well use it while he's OPSing at a .430 clip
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROMAD1 View Post
    I think there will be an x-factor not on this list...like Jhonny Peralta is fighting a long suppressed injury. He gets to do a rehab and fixes his swing and reverts to the 2011 Jhonny for July-October.
    Peralty is doing what he always does, minus his unusually high production 2011 season. He's going nowhere.
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  30. #30
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    Why would anyone want to get rid of Laird? He's doing his job and doing it pretty well. I am glad we have him.


    My vote is Raburn. Enough is enough. It's just stupid at this point. He's a minus defender and a pathetic hitter. I am tired of waiting for him to come around. I like Berry as the extra outfielder. Santiago & Worth can split second base until the trade deadline.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabretooth View Post
    I realize that Worth is probably the obvious choice since they will never player him, but I say get rid of DY and take our chances that Raburn is going to rebound with the bat, and play Worth more at 2B.

    We already know from 6+ years of major-league play that DY is a poor hitter with little or no power. We already know that he is one of the worst fielders in Tiger fan memory.

    We know that Raburn has been absolutely awful with the bat this year, but we also know that he has a stretch like this each year, and has proceeded each of the last three years to be one of the team's best hitters for 250+ at-bats after he comes out of it. We also know that despite the occasional comedy act in LF, Raburn covers ground and has a really good arm; we also know that he hasn't been the train wreck at 2B defensively this year that everybody (including me) thought he'd be....while I'd rather have just about anybody else at 2B, this means that Raburn defensively is (a) waaaaaay better than DY in the OF, and also can handle 2B semi-capably.

    So clearly Raburn is (a) a far more dangerous hitter than DY and (b) a much better fielder in the OF, and can play 2B if needed. That makes Raburn *likely* a much more valuable player than DY for the balance of this year.
    Agreed 100%.

  32. #32
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    Berry shouldn't be going anywhere. He's swinging a hot bat, gives them the speed they so desperately need and would be better defensive replacement than anyone they have now. IMO, it should be Kelly or Raburn. Neither can hit or get on base to save their lives. Santiago and Worth can be the backup infielders with Berry the extra outfielder with Young (even though he's terrible). Worth might not be playing much but that's what backups do, they don't play much. And he is better option to spell someone in the infield than Kelly or Raburn are. Unfortunately this team has too many holes right now and one move won't change that.
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  33. #33
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    Worth for all the reasons already listed. If he wasn't on the list, I would have voted Raburn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truman Show View Post
    I am pleased to see the popularity of firing Young now. But Worth plays once a week and is a backup for a backup. He's the obvious choice.
    I'd really would have liked to see Worth get 20-30 more PA before deciding he couldn't out hit Raburn's 148. I have to admit he (Worth) doesn't look very good facing MLB pitching, but when the spot your competing for is producing at black hole level, that still doesn't mean you are not an overall improvement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabretooth View Post
    Watching that film for me exposed the shibboleth... (common assumption) that players "back in the day" excelled at fundamentals that modern players eschew.
    Another MTS poster who knows how to use "shibboleth" and "eschew" correctly and does so in the same sentence. There must be hundreds of you guys on this forum. That's it for me, I'm going to be on MLive from now on where more complex constructions like "your a ritard" are used with flair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Peralty is doing what he always does, minus his unusually high production 2011 season. He's going nowhere.
    That's fair, but also not completely true either. He is 80 OPS points below his career average technically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    That's fair, but also not completely true either. He is 80 OPS points below his career average technically.
    Technically, true, but that includes what he did last year too.

    2009: .690 OPS
    2010: .701
    2011: .824
    2012: .696

    He's pretty much doing what they paid him for. They lucked out and he performed much better last year, but he's right back where he was the two years prior to that.
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    2012 Peralta is basically what I was afraid he'd be in 2011, immobile defensively and punchless at the plate. I've actually thought his approach has looked pretty good the last couple of weeks, hopefully he can start hitting with some more XBH ability.
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    If you look at Raburn's history you see he doesn't 'flip he switch' until July or August.

    2011: It wasn't till July until he started heating up (.279). He was .229 and .113 the previous months.
    2010: It was August when he hit .308 and the previous months were .212 and .255
    2009: August again (.327) and prior months were .236 and .260

    2112: Different because he hasn't been this bad to start the season: .145 and .148 for April and May.

    Point is that he's never been this bad this early on and I think the fans will crucify him before July or August rolls around....because that's how long we're gonna have to wait. Until then he'll be the worst position player in the AL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Technically, true, but that includes what he did last year too.

    2009: .690 OPS
    2010: .701
    2011: .824
    2012: .696

    He's pretty much doing what they paid him for. They lucked out and he performed much better last year, but he's right back where he was the two years prior to that.
    Agreed and I said it was fair, but its worth noting that he has 3 800+ OPS seasons on his record. Potential for turnaround is there, though potential to stay the same is also there.

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