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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    No I wouldn't release him - I was just arguing the logic you were using. In other words, I think there are good reasons to keep Delmon, but one of them isn't to protect against the possibility that he join a divisional rival.
    So all 'arguing my logic' aside, we're on the same page.
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  2. #82
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    If by, on the same page, we mean keep Delmon Young for the time being, then yeah, we're on the same page.

    That written, I certainly would actively look ways to upgrade him, and I personally would not have tendered him an offer in the offseason, were I GM. But he is here now, and he is the Tigers best option now (IMO), so until that changes I'd roll with him.

  3. #83
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    I would add that I only want him on the team as a DH. If he's going to be their primary left fielder, then I'd rather see him released.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalTigers View Post
    So all 'arguing my logic' aside, we're on the same page.
    I love the irony of this being the first post of a new page.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    If by, on the same page, we mean keep Delmon Young for the time being, then yeah, we're on the same page.

    That written, I certainly would actively look ways to upgrade him, and I personally would not have tendered him an offer in the offseason, were I GM. But he is here now, and he is the Tigers best option now (IMO), so until that changes I'd roll with him.
    Yes, Yes, and Yes. Agree on all three points.
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  6. #86
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    So who goes down with Delmon coming back tonight/tomorrow? It's gotta be either Worth or Eldred. I'd for for Eldred.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkin Darvin View Post
    So who goes down with Delmon coming back tonight/tomorrow? It's gotta be either Worth or Eldred. I'd for for Eldred.
    Eldred would be my guess. Depends on how Leyland wants to construct the line-up though. If you send down Worth you still have Raburn/Santiago at 2B and Dirks/Young in LF. IF Delmon is the playing LF and Raburn is at 2B then the DH would be split between Eldred and Dirks, which Leyland likes because it is lefty righty.

    Maybe worth goes down, who knows.

  8. #88
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    I think worth is sent down.
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    I would add that I only want him on the team as a DH. If he's going to be their primary left fielder, then I'd rather see him released.

    This episode with Delmon is the perfect opportunity to deliver the "my way or the highway" speech

    I think JL has been very co-operative in letting Delmon play the field. I'm sure JL is aware that Delmon is a defensive liability but he wanted to keep Delmon happy and allowed him to play the field.

    Sorry to say, but I think Eldred's coffee break is over.
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  10. #90
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    Dirks should be our LF against every RH pitcher.
    Between Kelly and Dirks, we have LF covered.

    The problem is having a RH bat play out there. I guess Raburn is the better fielder than Young, but that's not saying much. Neither one has the instincts or takes the correct routes to fly balls.
    Last edited by Sports_Freak; 05-04-2012 at 11:22 AM.
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sports_Freak View Post
    Dirks should be our LF against every RP pitcher.
    Between Kelly and Dirks, we have LF covered.

    The problem is having a RH bat play out there. I guess Raburn is the better fielder than Young, but that's not saying much. Neither one has the instincts or takes the correct routes to fly balls.
    I will be so happy to see the season come when we won't have to witness another Ryan Raburn Spring of Futility. So what hidden injury or other excuse will we hear about for 64 PA without a HR and a 379 OPS? I don't really care if the guy can put up a 1000 OPS two months a year, you can't play a black hole hitter months at a time every season. In 2009/10/11 Raburn's total OPS has dropped 891->814->729 . At that rate of decay, even 'when he comes around' the projection is only a 650 season total. That is scant total return even given the entertainment value of his defense.
    Last edited by Gehringer_2; 05-04-2012 at 11:06 AM.
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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    I will be so happy to see the season come when we won't have to witness another Ryan Raburn Spring of Futility. So what hidden injury or other excuse will we hear about for 64 PA without a HR and a 379 OPS? I don't really care if the guy can put up a 1000 OPS two months a year, you can't play a black hole hitter months at a time every season. In 2009/10/11 Raburn's total OPS has dropped 891->814->729 . At that rate of decay, even 'when he comes around' the projection is only a 650 season total. That is scant total return even given the entertainment value of his defense.
    This is why I don't like seeing Raburn getting a meaningless hits from time to time. It's like it gives JL a reason to use him.
    What's Raburn have? 2 games with two hits? Big freaking deal.
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    I will be so happy to see the season come when we won't have to witness another Ryan Raburn Spring of Futility. So what hidden injury or other excuse will we hear about for 64 PA without a HR and a 379 OPS? I don't really care if the guy can put up a 1000 OPS two months a year, you can't play a black hole hitter months at a time every season. In 2009/10/11 Raburn's total OPS has dropped 891->814->729 . At that rate of decay, even 'when he comes around' the projection is only a 650 season total. That is scant total return even given the entertainment value of his defense.
    Raburn's not a particularly good player, but his 729 OPS last year was likely a reflection of his very bad slump with the broken hand.

    Second of all, I wouldn't project decay in 2012 or beyond based on comparing his annual OPS for 3 years, especially for a part-timer. A 3-year "trend" in the annual data is just as likely to reflect random variation as anything.

    Given that he has a career OPS of 763, I would guess that he'll be that minus a deduction for exiting the prime athletic years of his career. I would still expect him to be a little better than he was in 2011, if he's healthy.
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  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sports_Freak View Post
    This is why I don't like seeing Raburn getting a meaningless hits from time to time. It's like it gives JL a reason to use him.
    What's Raburn have? 2 games with two hits? Big freaking deal.
    It's coming right back down to the paucity of position players in the system to help. You'd think a major league team would have one young OF at AAA that could come up and put up at least a 650-700 OPS, to bide some time before putting together a trade, but we don't have the guy.

    The youngest OF on the roster at Toledo is 27 - their OF roster is all MiLB filler; not an MLB prospect in the group - and my boy Clete has 16k in 28 AB so that does not appear to have been any kind of opportunity lost either.
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  15. #95
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    I'm against Delmon being given another shot because (a) he's a mediocre DH at best, however (b) Leyland is going to play him in the field, making him below average at best, (c) there are other options that can provide similar production.

    We might lose some offensive production by gonig with someone else, but that difference would likely be made up in better defense.
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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabretooth View Post
    Raburn's not a particularly good player, but his 729 OPS last year was likely a reflection of his very bad slump with the broken hand.

    Second of all, I wouldn't project decay in 2012 or beyond based on comparing his annual OPS for 3 years, especially for a part-timer. A 3-year "trend" in the annual data is just as likely to reflect random variation as anything.

    Given that he has a career OPS of 763, I would guess that he'll be that minus a deduction for exiting the prime athletic years of his career. I would still expect him to be a little better than he was in 2011, if he's healthy.
    I'd love to see it, but right now the raw data supports only pessimism. At 31 odds are he's past his physiological prime in every area except strength, and marginal MLB players tend to age out even younger than average since their skills were so marginal in the first place that they can't tolerate any perceptional process or reflex loss.
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  17. #97
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    You know, it's not that I think Eldred is really any good, but Designated him for Assignment to bring back a player who is also not good, but was just suspended for being a drunken anti-semite seems pretty insulting to the guy.
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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    You know, it's not that I think Eldred is really any good, but Designated him for Assignment to bring back a player who is also not good, but was just suspended for being a drunken anti-semite seems pretty insulting to the guy.
    Agreed.
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  19. #99
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    Already noted this on twitter, but I am really enjoying the take that this has the potential to be a wake-up call for Delmon and that there are two ways for this to go: "either he keeps screwing up, or he takes charge of his life and really focuses and mashes." You know, what about the other option where he doesn't cause any more problems but he still sucks at baseball?

    Just because a guy might have an alcohol or anger problem doesn't mean that that has anything to do with game play. I highly doubt Delmon Young is rolling over on outside fastballs because he's too pre-occupied about how much he hates Jews or whatever his problem is. I'm fully expecting him to keep his head down, stay out of the police blotter, and maybe even quit drinking during the season. That's the easy part. Hitting pitchers with major league talent takes much more than that.
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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truman Show View Post
    Already noted this on twitter, but I am really enjoying the take that this has the potential to be a wake-up call for Delmon and that there are two ways for this to go: "either he keeps screwing up, or he takes charge of his life and really focuses and mashes." You know, what about the other option where he doesn't cause any more problems but he still sucks at baseball?

    Just because a guy might have an alcohol or anger problem doesn't mean that that has anything to do with game play. I highly doubt Delmon Young is rolling over on outside fastballs because he's too pre-occupied about how much he hates Jews or whatever his problem is. I'm fully expecting him to keep his head down, stay out of the police blotter, and maybe even quit drinking during the season. That's the easy part. Hitting pitchers with major league talent takes much more than that.
    Maybe he quit drinking when it battered in 2009 and he got hot.

    Maybe he quit drinking in the 2011 playoffs and he got hot.

    You can't take away my delusion that this might scare him straight and make him hit like his two best short stints all the time. I won't let you.
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  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaymo View Post
    Maybe he quit drinking when it battered in 2009 and he got hot.

    Maybe he quit drinking in the 2011 playoffs and he got hot.

    You can't take away my delusion that this might scare him straight and make him hit like his two best short stints all the time. I won't let you.
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  22. #102
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    Maybe he's only a good hitter when he's drinking and was trying to spark himself out of his slump, now that will never happen and he'll be worse than ever
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  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    Maybe he's only a good hitter when he's drinking and was trying to spark himself out of his slump, now that will never happen and he'll be worse than ever
    If Delmon can't find his mojo and Quitin Berry keeps hitting LHP pitching better than right, may be we need to use a Lefty/Lefty platoon of he and Dirks......
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  24. #104
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    Berry still batting over .300 with that OBP well over .400. Although I have heard that he's basically fast Raburn with the glove in left.
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