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  1. #281
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    JBK,

    I actually originally agreed with your thoughts on some of this. I should have a post somewhere in around page 3 or 4 or something that essentially says that we just don't know all the facts and we need to find out more before passing too much judgement. Unfortunately, I think we have learned more facts at this point. And while we don't know the full story, I think it is safe to say that, as Shelton mentioned a bit earler, we do reasonable know these things to be facts:

    Quote Originally Posted by shelton
    • Delmon young was outside the team hotel at 2:30.
    • A Jewish panhandler was there as well.
    • Witnesses reported delmon yelling "****ing Jew" at him repeatedly.
    • A group of Chicago hotel patrons wet there as well.
    • Delmon followed one into the hotel lobby and physically confronted him and shoved him to ground, leading to some scrapes.
    • Delmon was taken to a hospital to sober up.
    Point-by-point:

    There really is no reason for Young to be outside the hotel at that time. Yeah, I know it's a night game, I know baseball players schedule are probably a little different than "normal people's" schedules. Still, I have a hard time agreeing with him being out then. This isn't horrible, but stupid on Young's part.

    Calling someone a ****ing Jew is not acceptable to me, regardless of your upbringing. I realize that I didn't have the same life as Young. But I don't excuse a person from being bigoted and rude because he had a poor childhood.

    Delmon following an individual into a lobby clearly indicates to me that he was the aggressor. Self-defense is one thing. I would even find it more acceptable if the other swung first and Young went after him even though he wasn't really in physical danger. But the man was clearly walking away from Young and was not attempt to induce or continue any sort of physical confrontation. Young, clear, was.

    Delmon being drunk enough that they needed him at the hospital is telling. This isn't just normal "had a few drinks, maybe getting a bit tipsy." I'm sure it isn't regular practice to bring the ordinary person who's just had one too many to the hospital.

    Legally speaking, this is relatively minor. But it speaks much more of Delmon as a person. This is not the sort of person I want on a team I root for. I hope that this is a one time thing and that Delmon is hugely embarrassed by this and completely cleans up his act. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening.

  2. #282
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    The DA should be happy to know that there is no chance Delmon will walk on this charge.
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  3. #283
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    thinking about this...

    Young is apparently going to deny the charges. So who can prove what? If Yankee fans wanted to screw him...they could just this way.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark The Shark View Post
    The DA should be happy to know that there is no chance Delmon will walk on this charge.
    what charge really? is yelling a racial epithet a hate crime? he didn't push the Jewish guy. Drunk and disorderly conduct.
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  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    He broke the law, and he's a public figure.

    The whole hate crime angle is a weird one because to me it seems like all crimes are hate crimes.
    I agree. No one mugs someone else, for example, to demonstrate his undying love for his fellow man.

    It is very reasonable to let the police sort it out. We don't know much right now. The only thing that struck me as odd that Delmone went to the hospital to sober up, accroding to the NY Post this AM. I really don't know what to make of that.
    "

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vonlenska View Post
    what charge really? is yelling a racial epithet a hate crime? he didn't push the Jewish guy. Drunk and disorderly conduct.
    I was making a joke about Delmon Young's lack of base on balls. Since he swings at everything. Including, apparently, tourists from Chicago.
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  7. #287
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    Tyrus? Duane?
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  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark The Shark View Post
    I was making a joke about Delmon Young's lack of base on balls. Since he swings at everything. Including, apparently, tourists from Chicago.
    Oh man. lol. Sorry.
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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    Being drunk is a choice not an excuse, this is like saying "It's OK that he killed 5 people driving drunk, he was drunk" doing something offensive and illegal isn't OK just because he'd been drinking, and it doesn't make people act that way either. When I'm drunk I do stupid things like text a girl and babble about my feelings...because those are the kind of things I'd normally do sober but my brain tells me 'woah bad idea buddy'.

    But somehow I've never started using racial slurs just because I had some beer in me.
    Great post. Especially that last part.
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  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    What is the crime here?

    Delmon pushing some guy down and yelling racial slurs?
    Yeah. Yeah it is.
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  11. #291
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    there may well be video...but why haven't we seen it?

  12. #292
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    The hate crime charge is ridiculous. All crimes are hate crimes or you wouldn't do it. I hate hate crimes. Who knows what's in your head when you do something.
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  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    You must sit on the same side of Jesus in your saint hood that Drown does. When were you indoctrinated? How often have you been the reciepent of racial slurs?
    So saints are the only ones who don't use racial slurs? How about just normal people who aren't bigoted jerks like Delmon apparently is? Your hyperboles are verging on the ridiculous today.
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  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
    The hate crime charge is ridiculous. All crimes are hate crimes or you wouldn't do it. I hate hate crimes. Who knows what's in your head when you do something.
    It's a dumb name, but I don't have a problem with deciding that crimes involving racial, homophobic, ethnic, or religious animus should be punished more severely.
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  15. #295
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    So now it is 1:30am? I thought it was 3:00am?

    Young was standing outside of the Hilton New York at about 1:30 a.m., where he was staying ahead of a series with the New York Yankees that starts Friday night. Nearby, a group of about four Chicago tourists staying at the hotel were approached by a panhandler wearing a yarmulke and a Star of David around his neck. After, as the group walked up to the hotel doors, Young started yelling anti-Semitic epithets, police said.

    It was not clear whom Young was yelling at, but he got into a tussle with the Chicago group, and a 32-year-old man sustained scratches to his elbows, according to police.

    Both Young and the group went inside the hotel, and at some point, police were called, and Young was arrested, police said. He was arrested on a charge of aggravated harassment as a hate crime.

    Also someone said Young 'followed' the group inside? Who were these 'group of 4'?
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  16. #296
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    Now he was 'believed to be intoxicated'?

    Young was first taken to a hospital because he was believed to be intoxicated, police said.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  17. #297
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    Just for the record...the last time I was in Chicago I had a Shannahan jersey on walking the streets and almost got in a fight with about 4-5 guys because they hated Detroit. I was just walking down the street with my wife.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  18. #298
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    This seems as good a place as any to point out that today is National Hair Ball Day.

    Sigh....
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  19. #299
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    It appears that the "bumb or panhandler" was Jewish. Young yelled slurs at him for asking for money while entering the hotel. There were 4 guys in the hotel who didn't like what he said and things escalated. Pushing and such. They called the cops on Young. He went to the hospital to sober up and then was charged.

    From everything I read, that seems to be the story. Who knows? Maybe we'll find out Mel Gibson was there too.
    Last edited by Danjo; 04-27-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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  20. #300
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    Apparently, Delmon has been reading the condensed works of Mel Gibson on "How Not To Befriend a Jew".
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  21. #301
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    Racial slurs are always a sign that someone has deep issues. Not sure what the Young's family life was like, but both of them seem to have anger issues. And alcohol issues. Maybe he needs some counseling.

    I hate to trot out the Ty Cobb card, but he's a hero to many people and he had all kinds of issues. He went into the stands once and attacked a fan, I believe. Babe Ruth was a drunk. And arguably, what Cabrera did was far, far more dangerous and wrong than what Young did. Going 100 MPH down the highway in a Land Rover when smashed could have killed many people, including Cabrera.

    With that said, people have forgiven the above players for being imperfect. They're all much better players than Young, but what they've done seems like it's in the past. Ozzie Guillen is back managing again. I think a lot of people are over what Luke Scott and John Rocker have said. If he can come back and produce whenever he gets back (after a heartfelt public apology, at the least), more power to him. We've got holes at 2B and DH on this team. We don't need another one in LF.
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  22. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    We've got holes at 2B and DH on this team. We don't need another one in LF.
    I'd rather replace him with a better player. I know that's a pipe dream.
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  23. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by catswithbats View Post
    I'd rather replace him with a better player. I know that's a pipe dream.
    I would too, but I don't know who's available, and for what cost. If we're going to make a trade, I'd rather we do so for a 2B, since we have even less options there.
    Distribution of wealth is not in any way democratic. It is, in fact, tyrannical, in that a very select few own almost all of it, while most have little to no access. To have a country that prioritizes wealth over individual rights is the antithesis of democracy.

  24. #304
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    Sometimes racial slurs are purely reactionary. The guy was wearing a yarmulke, so the obvious slur is something Jewish. When you are drunk or threatened you will pick the low hanging fruit of insults. If the guy had red hair he probably would have made fun of that. If he had a patch on his eye he wold have made fun of that. It is just human behavior to pick out a feature and mock it. He was obviously Jewish so he used that. If the guy had an ugly girlfriend I'm sure she would have been the target.

    But never - NEVER talk about someone's mother! Them's is fightn' words!
    Last edited by Danjo; 04-27-2012 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Typos typos typos
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  25. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    I would too, but I don't know who's available, and for what cost. If we're going to make a trade, I'd rather we do so for a 2B, since we have even less options there.
    I hear Inge is available.
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  26. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
    Sometimes racial slurs are purely reactionary. The guy was wearing a yarmulke, so the obvious slur is something Jewish. When you are drunk or threatened you will pick the low hanging fruit of insults. If the guy had red hair he probably would have made fun of that. If he had a patch on his eye he wold have made fun of that. It is just human behavior to pick out a feature and mock it. He was obviously Jewish so he used that. If the guy had an ugly girlfriend I'm sure she would have been the target.

    But never - NEVER talk about someone's mother! Them's is fightn' words!
    I agree. I don't think this incident is a reason to probe Young's ethnic and racial sensitivities. The guy has anger issues and possibly alcohol issues, but I'm willing to leave it at that.

    Of course, if he was just going to that place out of reaction and nothing else, that doesn't make any more acceptable.
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  27. #307
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    Its early yet, but the Tigers will be graded on their response to this. The smart thing to do is to say good-bye to this guy.

  28. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    With that said, people have forgiven the above players for being imperfect. They're all much better players than Young, but what they've done seems like it's in the past. Ozzie Guillen is back managing again. I think a lot of people are over what Luke Scott and John Rocker have said. If he can come back and produce whenever he gets back (after a heartfelt public apology, at the least), more power to him. We've got holes at 2B and DH on this team. We don't need another one in LF.
    Left field is already a hole. He has a .644 OPS amid a career of being mediocre at the plate with zero defense. Cutting him now wouldn't create a hole any more than cutting Inge created a hole at 2B. Betting on that elusive breakout was always a longshot, and this incident is all the more reason to abandon that experiment.
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  29. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truman Show View Post
    Left field is already a hole. He has a .644 OPS amid a career of being mediocre at the plate with zero defense. Cutting him now wouldn't create a hole any more than cutting Inge created a hole at 2B. Betting on that elusive breakout was always a longshot, and this incident is all the more reason to abandon that experiment.
    The thing is, I don't think we have anyone that can even put up a .644 OPS there.
    Distribution of wealth is not in any way democratic. It is, in fact, tyrannical, in that a very select few own almost all of it, while most have little to no access. To have a country that prioritizes wealth over individual rights is the antithesis of democracy.

  30. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    The thing is, I don't think we have anyone that can even put up a .644 OPS there.
    Dirks? Kelly?
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  31. #311
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    right now it appears the charge is derived from uttering the hate speech. No assault, not appearing there is any public drunk and disorderly charge. I think the most salacious stuff was leaked by cops to denigrate.

    This will come back on the Yankees. Each and every time the tigers go to NY, there is something stupid that happens.

  32. #312
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    Anti-Defamation League hopes Detroit Tigers' Delmon Young will apologize for alleged anti-Semitic statements | MLive.com

    ROMAD hopes ADL apologizes for convicting Young for something that hasn't been proven.

  33. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Yeah...I am sure the poor jewish guy didn't call Delmon anything derogatory...
    Disgrace.

  34. #314
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    We don't know anything besides what some screws in some NY precinct have said.

  35. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    Racial slurs are always a sign that someone has deep issues. Not sure what the Young's family life was like, but both of them seem to have anger issues. And alcohol issues. Maybe he needs some counseling.

    I hate to trot out the Ty Cobb card, but he's a hero to many people and he had all kinds of issues. He went into the stands once and attacked a fan, I believe. Babe Ruth was a drunk. And arguably, what Cabrera did was far, far more dangerous and wrong than what Young did. Going 100 MPH down the highway in a Land Rover when smashed could have killed many people, including Cabrera.

    With that said, people have forgiven the above players for being imperfect. They're all much better players than Young, but what they've done seems like it's in the past. Ozzie Guillen is back managing again. I think a lot of people are over what Luke Scott and John Rocker have said. If he can come back and produce whenever he gets back (after a heartfelt public apology, at the least), more power to him. We've got holes at 2B and DH on this team. We don't need another one in LF.
    I believe Mr Young Sr was a Navy flier - then Delta. The boys may have been 'military brats' at one point?
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  36. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truman Show View Post
    Dirks? Kelly?
    If they were exposed to more lefties, I'm not sure they could pull off a higher OPS.

    Defense would be better though.
    Distribution of wealth is not in any way democratic. It is, in fact, tyrannical, in that a very select few own almost all of it, while most have little to no access. To have a country that prioritizes wealth over individual rights is the antithesis of democracy.

  37. #317
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    Dumb as a rock Elmon will be moved now and quickly.

  38. #318
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    Delmon's career suggests a lack of dedication to his career. He is a natural athlete but seems content to make a lot of money as a mediocre professional. His plate discipline, defense and baserunning should be better. Alcoholism or other off-field problems might go a long way to explaining his chubby physique and apparent inattention to his own shortcomings as a player.

  39. #319
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    Fake Jim Leyland ‏ @FakeLeyland Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
    I'll actually care when Delmon Young issues a public apology for his lack of plate discipline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister porpoise View Post
    Delmon's career suggests a lack of dedication to his career. He is a natural athlete but seems content to make a lot of money as a mediocre professional. His plate discipline, defense and baserunning should be better. Alcoholism or other off-field problems might go a long way to explaining his chubby physique and apparent inattention to his own shortcomings as a player.
    do you wish to reconsider this in light of his family's history of diabetes and the professional examples of Kirby Pucket and Prince Fielder?

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