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  1. #121
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    I guess most important to me, is why the heck was he out at 3a the day of a game? And even more importantly, why was he so drunk he had to be taken to the hospital to sober up?

    Real team player there, worried about getting the team back on track after the tough time we've had lately.
    2012 AAT: Justin Henry

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    I was not there so I can not reliably say 'It was easy to avoid'.
    Go live in a city for a few months and you'll find out pretty quickly how easy it is to avoid.
    "I can't say I'm pleased to see you and warn you I may have to do something about it." Knut Hamsun

  3. #123
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    Was he drunk here?
    "I'm disabled"

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antrat View Post
    Was he drunk here?
    I laughed out loud... well played.

    I have to add, the more I watch that clip the funnier it gets.
    I like a man who grins when he fights--- Sir Winston Churchill.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerForever View Post
    This is no Young had a few and lost his cool
    Yes it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerForever View Post
    As new details emerge we now know that young had to be taken to the hospital for his level of intoxication
    We knew that before.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerForever View Post
    and secondly He left marks granted that on its face may not be much however consider this, in most states any marks left during a domestic assault and some one goes to jail. This is no different
    Yes it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerForever View Post
    lastly He crossed the line to the point he is being charged with a hate crime. Cops hear it all, small taunts are normally ignored. this had to be pretty bad to be chargeable, other wise the charges would be laughed out of court
    He also has a history of stupidity and aggression
    They most likely will be laughe dout of court. This happened less than 12 hours ago. No court has been involved yet.

    That last point IS valid.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    Go live in a city for a few months and you'll find out pretty quickly how easy it is to avoid.
    Yeah, I'm sure the panhandler in a yarmulke was really asking for a fight from delmon. Delmon needed to shut his mouth and move on, that's easy to avoid. But, he was hammered.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Poor guy had his feeling hurt. I am sure Delmon has never heard any slurs. Probably on that night as well. I have no idea, but again I am not proclaiming anything at this point just trying to dampen the flames form the 'cut him!' 'he is a racist!' 'he has behavior problems!' chants from the peanut gallery until the police finish the investiagtion. Notice I didn't say 'hear all the facts'.

    We never hear all the facts from the 'media'.
    I'm sure Delmon has heard slurs in his lifetime. Sure of it. So he should be all the more sensitive about throwing them around. It's easy to brush off slurs when you're a millionaire. It's less easy when you're panhandling.

    EDIT - Your whole "'media'" thing is laughable, too, because 'media' outlets are telling you about the 'drive by media' and all that. Yes, the media can be unreliable. Stories require interpretation and too many people take the interpretation of facts for facts themselves. Blah, blah, blah. You're not being subversive or superior for noting this in this day and age.

    Also, for someone who is all about "waiting on the facts from the police," you sure sound pretty certain on a lot of these issues.
    Last edited by Eric Cioe; 04-27-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antrat View Post
    Was he drunk here?
    When Cabrera had his drinking problems plenty of people suggested seriously that he was drunk or seriously hungover during games and it was the reason he didn't hit as well during day games.

    So, I am going to say yes. He was drunk, and he thought a fan in the crowd was Jewish and got distracted trying to think of something good and offensive to yell at him.
    Kobernoooooous

  9. #129
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    It's worth noting that the location in question appears to be outside the hotel the Tigers stay at while in NYC. I'll leave it to others to decide whether or not that makes a difference or how much difference it makes.
    2014 AAT: Scott Sitz!!!

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antrat View Post
    Was he drunk here?

    At least he doesn't have anger issues, though.
    I like a man who grins when he fights--- Sir Winston Churchill.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorCityKitty View Post
    I guess most important to me, is why the heck was he out at 3a the day of a game? And even more importantly, why was he so drunk he had to be taken to the hospital to sober up?
    We don't know that as fact yet. That is just what we've seen in the media.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    You can reliably say that it was easy to avoid yelling '******* Jews' in public. Here's how you do it: Shut your stupid mouth.
    No I cannot say that either. Being provoked (which may or may not have happened) and being drunk can lead to someone saying stupid things. Shoot, even leave out the being provoked part. People do stupid things when they are drunk.

    I will be willing to bet you do not drink and hate drinking. It is not meant as a slam against you, but people who do drink tend to offer leneancy to those who do and those who do not drink tend to get REALLY mad at people who do drink and do stupid things.

    Maybe Delmon is a bigot. Shoot, he most likely is. That fact doesn't mean he belongs in jail or to be released from his job.

    Is he a bad guy? Maybe. Maybe even most likely, but again there are plenty of people worse in the world and I will reserve my 'hate' for someone who deserves it.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalTigers View Post

    At least he doesn't have anger issues, though.
    We don't know for sure that was Delmon that threw the bat. That's just what the media told us. It could have been Lee Panas for all we know.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorCityKitty View Post
    I guess most important to me, is why the heck was he out at 3a the day of a game? And even more importantly, why was he so drunk he had to be taken to the hospital to sober up?

    Real team player there, worried about getting the team back on track after the tough time we've had lately.
    That doesn't concern me at all just like it didn't concern me when Cabby did it. I am Irish. I drink and have drank the night before going to work more than once and will most likely again. What I do on my OWN time is my OWN business...should be the same for an athelete IMO. They are still only human. Day game that day, travel to NY, go out and get drunk the night before a night game the next day? Not a Big deal IMO.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    Go live in a city for a few months and you'll find out pretty quickly how easy it is to avoid.
    I was born and raised in Detroit and lived there for 18 years.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antrat View Post
    Was he drunk here?
    lol
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalTigers View Post

    At least he doesn't have anger issues, though.
    I really love the non-reaction of the catcher in this incident.
    "Well that's it - you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear" - Rock Man

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    That doesn't concern me at all just like it didn't concern me when Cabby did it. I am Irish. I drink and have drank the night before going to work more than once and will most likely again. What I do on my OWN time is my OWN business...should be the same for an athelete IMO.
    Not being cynical; but serious, does your job require a high level of athleticism that alcohol (being a downer) can affect the physiological outcome of your performance?
    I like a man who grins when he fights--- Sir Winston Churchill.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    I'm sure Delmon has heard slurs in his lifetime. Sure of it. So he should be all the more sensitive about throwing them around. It's easy to brush off slurs when you're a millionaire. It's less easy when you're panhandling.

    EDIT - Your whole "'media'" thing is laughable, too, because 'media' outlets are telling you about the 'drive by media' and all that. Yes, the media can be unreliable. Stories require interpretation and too many people take the interpretation of facts for facts themselves. Blah, blah, blah. You're not being subversive or superior for noting this in this day and age.

    Also, for someone who is all about "waiting on the facts from the police," you sure sound pretty certain on a lot of these issues.
    Money has nothing to do with it IMO. Rich people have demons just like poor people. The only thing money does is take away the worry of money.

    What is 'drive by media'? I do not listen to ANY media. I look through what is being reported to 'try' and decipher what could have happened.

    I was not trying to be subversive or superior. YOU seem to think along the lines I do....that does not mean everyone thinks that way and my pointing that out does not automatically make me subversive.

    Matrix: Ha Ha. You know when I was a boy and rock'n'roll came to East Germany, the communists said it was subversive.
    [thinks and smiles]
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    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    That doesn't concern me at all just like it didn't concern me when Cabby did it. I am Irish. I drink and have drank the night before going to work more than once and will most likely again. What I do on my OWN time is my OWN business...should be the same for an athelete IMO. They are still only human. Day game that day, travel to NY, go out and get drunk the night before a night game the next day? Not a Big deal IMO.
    If he was drunk enough to be obvious, he was probably somewhere above 0.15 and that means he could not possibly be at full physical performance 20 hrs later - that is just a physiological fact. You may have a job where your employer isn't paying for 100% performance every time you walk in the door, Delmon does.

    There is a reason players earn those kinds of dollars, it's generally exactly because they also have the discipline and drive to bring every bit of talent they were born with to every single performance. If you're not going to do that - get off my team.

    If he's going to stay he has to submit to the same kind of monitoring now that Cabby has.
    Last edited by Gehringer_2; 04-27-2012 at 01:06 PM.
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  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    No I cannot say that either. Being provoked (which may or may not have happened) and being drunk can lead to someone saying stupid things. Shoot, even leave out the being provoked part. People do stupid things when they are drunk.

    I will be willing to bet you do not drink and hate drinking. It is not meant as a slam against you, but people who do drink tend to offer leneancy to those who do and those who do not drink tend to get REALLY mad at people who do drink and do stupid things.

    Maybe Delmon is a bigot. Shoot, he most likely is. That fact doesn't mean he belongs in jail or to be released from his job.

    Is he a bad guy? Maybe. Maybe even most likely, but again there are plenty of people worse in the world and I will reserve my 'hate' for someone who deserves it.
    As someone who LOVES to drink, let me say that all of your posts in this thread are utterly devoid of any quality legal, logical, or moral reasoning.

    You are embarrassing yourself by twisting yourself into knots over this douche bag.

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalTigers View Post

    At least he doesn't have anger issues, though.
    That was like 7 years ago. Nice.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    No I cannot say that either. Being provoked (which may or may not have happened) and being drunk can lead to someone saying stupid things. Shoot, even leave out the being provoked part. People do stupid things when they are drunk.

    I will be willing to bet you do not drink and hate drinking. It is not meant as a slam against you, but people who do drink tend to offer leneancy to those who do and those who do not drink tend to get REALLY mad at people who do drink and do stupid things.
    I've never understood why in American jurisprudence alcohol is a mitigating factor that tends to lessen punishment.

    And I can't speak for pyro, but for me, I am a drinker and love drinking. I brew my own beer, have beer tastings every week, am judging a beerfest in a week. What that means is that I have even less tolerance for people who can't handle their alcohol and have to fight, rape, drunk drive, murder, whatever, while they are intoxicated.

    So no, I totally disagree with your assertion that "people who do drink tend to offer leneancy (sic) to those who do" because in my experience the only people who offer that sort of leniency are the Busch Light swilling idiots who give the rest of us who can control ourselves when we drink and don't seek to blame any idiotic behavior we might engage in on the alcohol that we willingly ingest.
    "I can't say I'm pleased to see you and warn you I may have to do something about it." Knut Hamsun

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir View Post
    We don't know for sure that was Delmon that threw the bat. That's just what the media told us. It could have been Lee Panas for all we know.
    Keep trying. I am not going to bite. I am trying to have a serious conversation about this and you can continue to try and rile me up. Is that not called 'troll behavior' online?
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    And I can't speak for pyro, but for me, I am a drinker and love drinking. I brew my own beer, have beer tastings every week, am judging a beerfest in a week.
    I approve of this message! You and I would get along just fine, Eric.
    I like a man who grins when he fights--- Sir Winston Churchill.

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalTigers View Post
    Not being cynical; but serious, does your job require a high level of athleticism that alcohol (being a downer) can affect the physiological outcome of your performance?
    No it does not.

    Let me ask you a question:

    Do you not think the majority of professional baseball players have at one time in their professional careers gone out and got drunk (intentionally or with the intent to do it or not) the night after a day game with a night game the next day?
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    No I cannot say that either. Being provoked (which may or may not have happened) and being drunk can lead to someone saying stupid things. Shoot, even leave out the being provoked part. People do stupid things when they are drunk.

    I will be willing to bet you do not drink and hate drinking. It is not meant as a slam against you, but people who do drink tend to offer leneancy to those who do and those who do not drink tend to get REALLY mad at people who do drink and do stupid things.

    Maybe Delmon is a bigot. Shoot, he most likely is. That fact doesn't mean he belongs in jail or to be released from his job.

    Is he a bad guy? Maybe. Maybe even most likely, but again there are plenty of people worse in the world and I will reserve my 'hate' for someone who deserves it.
    Being drunk is a choice not an excuse, this is like saying "It's OK that he killed 5 people driving drunk, he was drunk" doing something offensive and illegal isn't OK just because he'd been drinking, and it doesn't make people act that way either. When I'm drunk I do stupid things like text a girl and babble about my feelings...because those are the kind of things I'd normally do sober but my brain tells me 'woah bad idea buddy'.

    But somehow I've never started using racial slurs just because I had some beer in me.
    Kobernoooooous

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    Being drunk is a choice not an excuse, this is like saying "It's OK that he killed 5 people driving drunk, he was drunk" doing something offensive and illegal isn't OK just because he'd been drinking, and it doesn't make people act that way either. When I'm drunk I do stupid things like text a girl and babble about my feelings...because those are the kind of things I'd normally do sober but my brain tells me 'woah bad idea buddy'.

    But somehow I've never started using racial slurs just because I had some beer in me.
    Bingo.

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    I've never understood why in American jurisprudence alcohol is a mitigating factor that tends to lessen punishment.

    And I can't speak for pyro, but for me, I am a drinker and love drinking. I brew my own beer, have beer tastings every week, am judging a beerfest in a week. What that means is that I have even less tolerance for people who can't handle their alcohol and have to fight, rape, drunk drive, murder, whatever, while they are intoxicated.

    So no, I totally disagree with your assertion that "people who do drink tend to offer leneancy (sic) to those who do" because in my experience the only people who offer that sort of leniency are the Busch Light swilling idiots who give the rest of us who can control ourselves when we drink and don't seek to blame any idiotic behavior we might engage in on the alcohol that we willingly ingest.
    Great post.

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    No it does not.

    Let me ask you a question:

    Do you not think the majority of professional baseball players have at one time in their professional careers gone out and got drunk (intentionally or with the intent to do it or not) the night after a day game with a night game the next day?
    Sure it does. Involving arrests and nights in jail/ hospital? No, not too often.
    I like a man who grins when he fights--- Sir Winston Churchill.

  31. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by RatkoVarda View Post
    As someone who LOVES to drink, let me say that all of your posts in this thread are utterly devoid of any quality legal, logical, or moral reasoning.

    You are embarrassing yourself by twisting yourself into knots over this douche bag.
    So you know all the facts of the story? Is it POSSIBLE that the reports are not 100% accurate? That being an 'outsider' may have something to do with it?

    I am not embarrased for NOT slamming a guy for getting drunk and doing something stupid.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  32. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by RatkoVarda View Post
    As someone who LOVES to drink, let me say that all of your posts in this thread are utterly devoid of any quality legal, logical, or moral reasoning.

    You are embarrassing yourself by twisting yourself into knots over this douche bag.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    If he was drunk enough to be obvious, he was probably somewhere above 0.15 and that means he could not possibly be at full physical performance 20 hrs later - that is just a physiological fact. You may have a job where your employer isn't paying for 100% performance every time you walk in the door, Delmon does.
    Great point.

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Money has nothing to do with it IMO. Rich people have demons just like poor people. The only thing money does is take away the worry of money.
    No, money also confers power. If you don't believe that then I don't know what to tell you. All Delmon had to do was ignore the guy, made easier because he didn't have to sit on the street all night. He could go soak in a bathtub in his $400 a night hotel room. He could have a cigar, sleep until 2 pm, and go make $35k tonight while butchering plays in the outfield and swinging at pitches at his neck and totally forget about the whole incident. The guy on the street is still going to be a guy on the street.
    "I can't say I'm pleased to see you and warn you I may have to do something about it." Knut Hamsun

  33. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    That doesn't concern me at all just like it didn't concern me when Cabby did it. I am Irish. I drink and have drank the night before going to work more than once and will most likely again. What I do on my OWN time is my OWN business...should be the same for an athelete IMO. They are still only human. Day game that day, travel to NY, go out and get drunk the night before a night game the next day? Not a Big deal IMO.
    we will know to avoid you

  34. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Keep trying. I am not going to bite. I am trying to have a serious conversation about this and you can continue to try and rile me up. Is that not called 'troll behavior' online?
    I'm just asking questions. I find it fascinating that anyone is going to try to defend Delmon on this issue given what is known of his past and this issue in particular.

    But, if you feel that I am trolling you, please feel free to put me on ignore and consult a moderator about my activity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    I am not embarrased for NOT slamming a guy for getting drunk and doing something stupid.
    Why is he less responsible because he was drunk?
    "I can't say I'm pleased to see you and warn you I may have to do something about it." Knut Hamsun

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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    Being drunk is a choice not an excuse, this is like saying "It's OK that he killed 5 people driving drunk, he was drunk" doing something offensive and illegal isn't OK just because he'd been drinking, and it doesn't make people act that way either. When I'm drunk I do stupid things like text a girl and babble about my feelings...because those are the kind of things I'd normally do sober but my brain tells me 'woah bad idea buddy'.
    That is the same thing huh? I don't think so. Killing 5 people for drunk driving is not the same as pushing someone down and yelling racial slurs at someone. And it is simply a fact that alcohol kills brain cells and people do stupid things when drunk. It is not the same thing. If Delmon went out and beat the guy to death while drunk I would not be defending him because he was drunk. What is the crime here?

    Delmon pushing some guy down and yelling racial slurs?

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrotigers View Post
    But somehow I've never started using racial slurs just because I had some beer in me.
    [/QUOTE]

    Neither have I.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    So you know all the facts of the story? Is it POSSIBLE that the reports are not 100% accurate? That being an 'outsider' may have something to do with it?

    I am not embarrased for NOT slamming a guy for getting drunk and doing something stupid.
    You have, however, more or less blamed the victim by suggesting he was somehow complict. Despite no evidence of that having yet been presented.
    2014 AAT: Scott Sitz!!!

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    Latest news:
    When informed of the Delmon incident, Ron Artest (AKA Meta-World Peace) said "Man, that was stupid. They need to suspend that dude for the rest of the season!"
    "I'm disabled"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    I've never understood why in American jurisprudence alcohol is a mitigating factor that tends to lessen punishment.

    .
    There actually was a back and forth about this in MI a number of years ago, with respect to whether diminished capacity due to drunkenness should be a mitigating factor, for instance as regards premeditation in 1st degree murder.

    I ran into this when I sat on a murder jury for a crime committed by a perp who was blottoed (in the 80's I think). Turns out the Mich Supreme court had been revising and re-revising the allowed jury instructions to the point that our judge, the senior judge of the court, literally mumbled through the instruction with his hand over his mouth and then refused to send us a written copy when we requested one in deliberations. Funny thing was we had a member of the local bar on the jury and he explained what was going on. The judge figured the one way to be sure the verdict wasn't reversed for jury instruction was to make sure no-one was sure what they were! IIRC we were at a point when impairment was NOT being allowed as a mitigating factor in formation of intent, but I think it did change shortly thereafter.
    Last edited by Gehringer_2; 04-27-2012 at 01:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cioe View Post
    I've never understood why in American jurisprudence alcohol is a mitigating factor that tends to lessen punishment.

    And I can't speak for pyro, but for me, I am a drinker and love drinking. I brew my own beer, have beer tastings every week, am judging a beerfest in a week. What that means is that I have even less tolerance for people who can't handle their alcohol and have to fight, rape, drunk drive, murder, whatever, while they are intoxicated.

    So no, I totally disagree with your assertion that "people who do drink tend to offer leneancy (sic) to those who do" because in my experience the only people who offer that sort of leniency are the Busch Light swilling idiots who give the rest of us who can control ourselves when we drink and don't seek to blame any idiotic behavior we might engage in on the alcohol that we willingly ingest.
    Because alcohlism is considered a disease.

    You can disagree with me that is fine. Yeah and sorry for the misspelling and for pointing it out.

    I drink and control myself, but I am not going to throw someone under the buss because I can control myself. I had a brother was was an alcoholic so it hits close to home for me.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

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