Delmon Young arrested for fighting in NYC

[TheCouga]

New book features interviews with Jewish Major Leaguers: UPDATE » Kaplan’s Korner on Jews and Sports

There was a story run about Scherzer being Jewish, but apparently it was an error and has since been corrected?

I know I read it somewhere before, though. I think it might have been on his Wikipedia page at one time.

[Auburndale Ray]

Of course...There is this old saying...

There are only two types of honest people in this world, small children and drunk people...

We really don't know what's in Delmon's heart...
I just hope this turns best for all involved...

[catswithbats]

I'm fairly positive he is.

I read that he was Protestant, but it was on a baseball gossip site.

[TheCouga]

I read that he was Protestant, but it was on a baseball gossip site.

Interesting.

St. Louis is full of both Jews and Cathoics (he's from here). Not many protestants here.

[slim pickens]

Dave Dombrowski: Delmon Young will return to Tigers' lineup if cleared to play by MLB | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

[Gehringer_2]

Dave Dombrowski: Delmon Young will return to Tigers' lineup if cleared to play by MLB | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

So this might only buy Dirks one series? Damn.

[bugmanson]

So how does that guy have a site that says "Jews and Sports" and there is no problem with that but DY adds ****ing in front and its a hate crime? If people truly want to end the use of these terms they ALL need to stop using them... the fact that people of the same race/religion can use the term but no others can is stupid... The hate crime part will get thrown out since by all reports never touched the Jewish guy.. all he did was push some idiot from Chicago. Send him to anger management and AA for a month to make people happy and he will be back.... the people who want him cut you do realize that he hits like 150 pts higher then the person you want to get more time in place of him (Rugburn).. An while DY might be slow he never threw a ball over the fence for a HR

[rhino]

Maybe this is Delmons rock bottom. His whole career his has been said to never have fully plyed to his potential. Maybe this incident will be the kick in the teeth he needs to motivate himself to at least give an honest effort at trying to reach that potential. Delmon is still only 26. There is still a chance he could make himself a better player.

If his legal issue is resolved in a manner that allows him to continue playing. I think the chance is good that we will see a better player than what we have seen.

[TheCouga]

I think "hate crime" is a legitimate charge in general. If you're going to commit a violent crime influenced by racism, bigotry, etc., it doesn't just hurt the victim, it hurts the entire community. That's why there should be an additional penalty for violence caused by hate.

I'm not sure that Delmon's conduct rises to that level. What he said was inappropriate and stupid. But he could have used a lot more derogatory and hateful words than, "****ing Jew." Putting "****ing" in front of any class of people is different from calling them by racial slurs. Like if he said "****ing Italians" I don't think it would be a hate crime. But if he used the "w-word" it would be. He could have used the "k-word" in this instance, but he didn't.

But he didn't even attack the panhandler. His scuffle was with some non-Jewish dude from Chicago. Hate crimes have to be tacked on to some violent act related to the hate. You can't just yell out an insult. Here, Young's violent act was separate from the "hate" -- it was directed at a different person. So I doubt he will actually be convicted of a hate crime.

[tiger337]

.. the people who want him cut you do realize that he hits like 150 pts higher then the person you want to get more time in place of him (Rugburn).. An while DY might be slow he never threw a ball over the fence for a HR

OPS since 2009:
Raburn .784
Young .753

Plus Raburn is a better left fielder. Of course, Raburn has benefited from the platoon advantage not playing every day. I'd like to see a Dirks/Raburn platoon in left. If Young were willing to DH every day, they could put him there, but then a DH who with a .753 OPS is not worth much. I'd rather give Eldred a shot.

[Gehringer_2]

Maybe this is Delmons rock bottom. His whole career his has been said to never have fully plyed to his potential. Maybe this incident will be the kick in the teeth he needs to motivate himself to at least give an honest effort at trying to reach that potential. Delmon is still only 26. There is still a chance he could make himself a better player.

If his legal issue is resolved in a manner that allows him to continue playing. I think the chance is good that we will see a better player than what we have seen.

wasn't he suspended for some huge span after the bat episode. yeah - he's older now, but if that didn't concentrate his mind, will this?

[TheCouga]

OPS since 2009:
Raburn .784
Young .753

Plus Raburn is a better left fielder. Of course, Raburn has benefited from the platoon advantage not playing every day. I'd like to see a Dirks/Raburn platoon in left. If Young were willing to DH every day, they could put him there, but then a DH who with a .753 OPS is not worth much. I'd rather give Eldred a shot.

Young definitely should be DHing. But I'd much rather go with him over Eldred for the rest of the year.

[tiger337]

Young definitely should be DHing. But I'd much rather go with him over Eldred for the rest of the year.

If I was forced to choose someone for the rest of the year, I'd go with Young. Right now, I'd try to ride Eldred's hot streak which is what they had planned to do before the incident. I don't think Young is good enough where they need to guarantee him regular playing time.

[Gehringer_2]

Young definitely should be DHing. But I'd much rather go with him over Eldred for the rest of the year.

well, I'd give him a couple weeks and then check where he was .

[bugmanson]

OPS since 2009:
Raburn .784
Young .753

Plus Raburn is a better left fielder. Of course, Raburn has benefited from the platoon advantage not playing every day. I'd like to see a Dirks/Raburn platoon in left. If Young were willing to DH every day, they could put him there, but then a DH who with a .753 OPS is not worth much. I'd rather give Eldred a shot.

There is no way that Raburn is a better fielder then anyone, he can't field a ground ball, cant catch a fly ball... he has already made at least 5-6 bad plays this year that should have been errors that were not counted. If your gonna use stats use them all:
1419AB .767 OPS Raburn - 7 years
3041AB .746 OPS DY - 7 Years
715 G 33 Errors - DY
521 G 45 Errors - Raburn

These are both over a 7 year span...DY has double the at bats and Rayburn has a better OPS by very small number .021 And in 200 less games played he has 12 more errors already

How does that make him better that Dy

If you want to use DY/Dirks as a L/R switch until someone take the job ..I am fine since Dirks seems to have some potential... But Raburn should be part time 2nd unless he get hot then use him instead of Santiago.. Not in LF

[sabretooth]

So how does that guy have a site that says "Jews and Sports" and there is no problem with that but DY adds ****ing in front and its a hate crime? If people truly want to end the use of these terms they ALL need to stop using them... the fact that people of the same race/religion can use the term but no others can is stupid... The hate crime part will get thrown out since by all reports never touched the Jewish guy.. all he did was push some idiot from Chicago. Send him to anger management and AA for a month to make people happy and he will be back.... the people who want him cut you do realize that he hits like 150 pts higher then the person you want to get more time in place of him (Rugburn).. An while DY might be slow he never threw a ball over the fence for a HR

You see no difference between a web site that identifies jewish athletes and someone calling someone an "f-ing jew"?

[Vonlenska]

lol. much easier to make errors at 2b. OF errors are worse. Also, errors are a terrible way to judge a fielder.

[bugmanson]

You see no difference between a web site that identifies jewish athletes and someone calling someone an "f-ing jew"?

No, I see no difference in the fact that if you are not supposed to call them "Jews" why should be able to anyone regardless if its in a positive or negative way... Don't want people to use the term Jew.. then don't use it yourself

[tiger337]

There is no way that Raburn is a better fielder then anyone, he can't field a ground ball, cant catch a fly ball... he has already made at least 5-6 bad plays this year that should have been errors that were not counted. If your gonna use stats use them all:
1419AB .767 OPS Raburn - 7 years
3041AB .746 OPS DY - 7 Years
715 G 33 Errors - DY
521 G 45 Errors - Raburn

These are both over a 7 year span...DY has double the at bats and Rayburn has a better OPS by very small number .021 And in 200 less games played he has 12 more errors already

How does that make him better that Dy

If you want to use DY/Dirks as a L/R switch until someone take the job ..I am fine since Dirks seems to have some potential... But Raburn should be part time 2nd unless he get hot then use him instead of Santiago.. Not in LF

Errors don't tell me very much about a player's fielding contribution. Raburn clearly makes too many errors and bonehead plays. That's what everyone remembers, but he covers a lot more ground than Young and makes a good number of plays over the course of the season that Young can't make. Young not making plays that other players can make has a similar effect to making errors. The Tigers know Raburn is a better fielder than Young which is why they sometimes bring him for defense late in the game.

Also comparing Raburn's 45 errors to Young's 33 errors is ridiculous because 19 of those errors came at second base.

[bugmanson]

lol. much easier to make errors at 2b. OF errors are worse. Also, errors are a terrible way to judge a fielder.

I don't use any stats to judge players (I think spitting out stats is kinda lame but he used them so i figure I would to rebuttle). I use what I see and I see Raburn as being an abortion in the field no matter where he is, Dy isn't great but any means but at least its due to being slow.. not due to just being bad like Raburn

[sinister porpoise]

He's not charged with "hate crime" btw, he's charged with aggravated harassment. The aggravating factor being religious/ethnic foundation of harassment. So argue that drunkenly yelling "****ing Jew" repeatedly at a guy wearing yarmulke and Star of David isn't harassment if you so wish.

[TheCouga]

No, I see no difference in the fact that if you are not supposed to call them "Jews" why should be able to anyone regardless if its in a positive or negative way... Don't want people to use the term Jew.. then don't use it yourself

There's nothing wrong with saying "Jew." There is something wrong with putting an f-bomb in front of it and yelling it at someone. "White people" and "****ing white people" carry two very different meanings.

[bugmanson]

Errors don't tell me very much about a player's fielding contribution. Raburn clearly makes too many errors and bonehead plays. That's what everyone remembers, but he covers a lot more ground than Young and makes a good number of plays over the course of the season that Young can't make. Young not making plays that other players can make has a similar effect to making errors. The Tigers know Raburn is a better fielder than Young which is why they sometimes bring him for defense late in the game.

Also comparing Raburn's 45 errors to Young's 33 errors is ridiculous because 19 of those errors came at second base.

Give him 200 more game in the OF and he will still have more then DY... A LOT more

[bugmanson]

There's nothing wrong with saying "Jew." There is something wrong with putting an f-bomb in front of it and yelling it at someone. "White people" and "****ing white people" carry two very different meanings.

but you cant get arrested for yelling ****ing white people..

[TheCouga]

He's not charged with "hate crime" btw, he's charged with aggravated harassment. The aggravating factor being religious/ethnic foundation of harassment. So argue that drunkenly yelling "****ing Jew" repeatedly at a guy wearing yarmulke and Star of David isn't harassment if you so wish.

I think it's harassment -- aggravated harassment even -- but I don't think it's a hate crime. Hate crimes usually have to have a physical violence component to them. In this case, the physical violence was directed at someone else.

[tiger337]

Give him 200 more game in the OF and he will still have more then DY... A LOT more

Maybe, but errors only tell me a small part about a player's fielding contribution. Raburn makes a lot more plays than Young, which more than makes up for the errors. Remember, every time Young doesn't make a play that other left fielders can make, that has essentially the same effect as making an error.

If Young is a better fielder than Raburn, why does Leyland sometimes put Raburn in left to play defense in the late innings?

[bugmanson]

He's not charged with "hate crime" btw, he's charged with aggravated harassment. The aggravating factor being religious/ethnic foundation of harassment. So argue that drunkenly yelling "****ing Jew" repeatedly at a guy wearing yarmulke and Star of David isn't harassment if you so wish.

Every news paper and article has been calling it a Hate crime and makes it sound like he hates all Jewish people.. This has been Blown so out of the water by the NY media they pretty much killed any chance of him returning to normal

[TheCouga]

but you cant get arrested for yelling ****ing white people..

I doubt he'd be arrested if all he was yelling was "****ing Jew."

[bugmanson]

Maybe, but errors only tell me a small part about a player's fielding contribution. Raburn makes a lot more plays than Young, which more than makes up for the errors. Remember, every time Young doesn't make a play that other left fielders can make, that has essentially the same effect as making an error.

If Young is a better fielder than Raburn, why does Leyland sometimes put Raburn in left to play defense in the late innings?

Was does Leyland put a closer in who has a 6+ era in non-save situations in when the game is tied? He is so stuck in his ways most of his moves make no sense... tied game put a guy who is batting .56 up for some one batting .300..

[bugmanson]

I doubt he'd be arrested if all he was yelling was "****ing Jew."

The assault had nothing to do with the guy he was yelling at..and he is not getting in trouble for the assault

He faces a misdemeanor aggravated harassment charge
So Yes he was arrested for yelling ****ing jew

Aggravated harassment is a broad legal term that refers to intentional actions designated to intimidate or terrorize another person.

[TheCouga]

The assault had nothing to do with the guy he was yelling at..and he is not getting in trouble for the assault

He faces a misdemeanor aggravated harassment charge
So Yes he was arrested for yelling ****ing jew

Aggravated harassment is a broad legal term that refers to intentional actions designated to intimidate or terrorize another person.

You don't seem to know the difference between "arrested" and "charged."

The only reason the police were there was because he tackled another hotel patron.

[tiger337]

Was does Leyland put a closer in who has a 6+ era in non-save situations in when the game is tied? He is so stuck in his ways most of his moves make no sense... tied game put a guy who is batting .56 up for some one batting .300..

It's because Raburn is a much better fielder than Young. Here's what the defensive stats say:

Total Zone Raburn +3 Young -59
UZR Raburn +3 Young -50
DRS Raburn +4 Young -37
UZR/150 Raburn +3 Young -11

In other words, Raburn has been around average compared to other left fielders in converting batted balls into outs. On the other hand, Young costs his team about 11 runs a year compared to the average left fielder. Most left fielders are pretty bad which is why Raburn is average. Young is much worse than bad.

Now, I know Gehringer is going to remind me that the defensive stats might not capture all of Raburn's mistakes! That won't come close to covering the difference though.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

but you cant get arrested for yelling ****ing white people..

How about black people and ****ing black people?

[DET Mr Malefic]

One of the things I realized through this story is that I'd never seen the word "yarmulke" in print before, I'd only heard the word used verbally. At first I didn't even know what the story was referencing until context took over and I said "Ohhhhh......so that's how you spell it."

[mickeyb105]

Errors don't tell me very much about a player's fielding contribution. Raburn clearly makes too many errors and bonehead plays. That's what everyone remembers, but he covers a lot more ground than Young and makes a good number of plays over the course of the season that Young can't make. Young not making plays that other players can make has a similar effect to making errors. The Tigers know Raburn is a better fielder than Young which is why they sometimes bring him for defense late in the game.

Also comparing Raburn's 45 errors to Young's 33 errors is ridiculous because 19 of those errors came at second base.

Comparing Young and Raburn in LF is like comparing a bad cover-two corner and a bad man-to-man corner. One gives too much of a cushion and the other one presses at inappropriate times trying to make plays. At the end of the day, they are both sub-standard in LF and shouldn't ever be seen wearing a glove at the MLB level.

That said, 19 errors for Raburn at second base in that limited of action—yikes. Those are just the mistakes that are docummented. On the plus side, I did see him make an outstanding throw from the cutoff to nail a National at third base (Worth maybe? Can't remember but it happened right in front of our seats).

[sabretooth]

No, I see no difference in the fact that if you are not supposed to call them "Jews" why should be able to anyone regardless if its in a positive or negative way... Don't want people to use the term Jew.. then don't use it yourself

Who said that you could never refer to anybody as a jew?

[sabretooth]

I think it's harassment -- aggravated harassment even -- but I don't think it's a hate crime. Hate crimes usually have to have a physical violence component to them. In this case, the physical violence was directed at someone else.

I think you're right about this, but I'm no expert in this area of the law.

[sabretooth]

Paging Ty/Duane/John....there's someone who just entered the thread recently who you will probably feel the need to defend.

[Gehringer_2]

It's because Raburn is a much better fielder than Young. Here's what the defensive stats say:

Total Zone Raburn +3 Young -59
UZR Raburn +3 Young -50
DRS Raburn +4 Young -37
UZR/150 Raburn +3 Young -11

In other words, Raburn has been around average compared to other left fielders in converting batted balls into outs. On the other hand, Young costs his team about 11 runs a year compared to the average left fielder. Most left fielders are pretty bad which is why Raburn is average. Young is much worse than bad.

Now, I know Gehringer is going to remind me that the defensive stats might not capture all of Raburn's mistakes! That won't come close to covering the difference though.

Nope. I'm not going argue Delmon over Raburn. Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent.

[bugmanson]

Who said that you could never refer to anybody as a jew?

Then it is only considered harassment/hate crime because he swore first.... If that is the case.. We are all going to jail, cause i have said ****ing Inge a lot,