Tigers spring training: Prince Fielder, Miguel Cabrera have instant chemistry

[Brian]

LAKELAND, Fla. -- Maybe it was the way Prince Fielder showed up four days early for spring training.

Or maybe it was the massive home run he hit during batting practice -- a ball that soared at least 450 feet, smashing into the trees high over the rightfield fence, shattering a branch and prompting Miguel Cabrera to scream: "You hit that alligator!"

Or maybe it was the way Fielder hung out in the clubhouse Monday morning and looked so comfortable and relaxed, greeting the players and security guards and equipment guys and minor league catchers and, heck, anybody who walked by.

Or maybe it was the way Fielder and Cabrera seemed to build an instant connection. They were inseparable on their first day together. They played catch together and batted together and stretched together and did sprints together and at one point, after most of the clubhouse had cleared out, they stood arm in arm and took several pictures of each other with their cell phones. Can you imagine that Facebook update?




Tigers spring training: Prince Fielder, Miguel Cabrera have instant chemistry | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

[apabruce]

If you're Prince Fielder, you've gotta love hitting behind the AL batting champion who gets on base nearly half the time.

[Brian]

If you a fan you gotta love the teams biggest star's hitting it off and putting the ego aside :D .

[STLTiger69]

Sometimes a picture is worth 1,000 words, this is Miguel Cabrera laughing and talking with Prince Fielders son Haven...






I had to share this also;

“I watched him (Prince Fielder) as a rookie, and I watched him grow as a hitter, winning player and teammate,” Tony La Russa said. “He’s special.”

A few moments later, Miguel Cabrera walked into Leyland’s office to say hello to La Russa. After Cabrera left, La Russa smiled and asked Leyland,

“Is he on your team, too?”

Tony La Russa arrives in Detroit Tigers camp, raves about Prince Fielder | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

[Detroit Rock City]

Great comment from La Russa!

Those two are both going to be happy guys hitting next to each other in the order. Both seem very fun loving and laid back so no reason they shouldn't get along but it just adds to the optimism that Prince seems to be fitting in right away.

[irvink]

In Bowden's blog this morning, he lists 7 players poised to breakout. His top choice? Boesch.

Seven players poised to erupt - The GM's Office by Jim Bowden Blog - ESPN

[The Truman Show]

Maybe if people keep repeating that Boesch will get extra fastballs because of Miggy and Fielder, it will happen?


Spoiler alert: it won't.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Back to back homers often result in good chemistry!

[Eric Cioe]

Maybe if people keep repeating that Boesch will get extra fastballs because of Miggy and Fielder, it will happen?


Spoiler alert: it won't.

I want to hug you.

[The Truman Show]

I want to hug you.

Shouldn't have moved to Montana, then.

[alwaysthrowheat]

Maybe if people keep repeating that Boesch will get extra fastballs because of Miggy and Fielder, it will happen?


Spoiler alert: it won't.

I'd like to see Boesch hit the ball in the air more. He only has a 39% FB rate. He did, however, swing at 5% fewer pitches in 2011 than 2010. Also tied for 4th in "no doubt" home runs (out of all 30 parks to where the ball was hit), and missed two months. Has sensational power, would like to see him display it. He's 27 and entering his prime, no better time than now.

Main point though, he won't see more fastballs, every at bat is its own independent event. You'd think someone who was an ex-gm wouldn't write something like that.

I should also point out that of the top 12 guys in the league who see the fewest pitches in the zone, three are on the Tigers (Boesch, Cabby, Fielder).

[tiger337]

This is fluff. I want to see an article about how Gerald Laird hates Don Kelly.

[sabretooth]

I'd like to see Boesch hit the ball in the air more. He only has a 39% FB rate. He did, however, swing at 5% less pitches in 2011 than 2010. Also tied for 4th in "no doubt" home runs (out of all 30 parks to where the ball was hit), and missed two months. Has sensational power, would like to see him display it. He's 27 and entering his prime, no better time than now.

Main point though, he won't see more fastballs, every at bat is its own independent event. You'd think someone who was an ex-gm wouldn't write something like that.

I should also point out that of the top 12 guys in the league who see the least pitches in the zone, three are on the Tigers (Boesch, Cabby, Fielder).

Whether or not Boesch sees different pitches he would become a more well-rounded hitter if he hit more flyballs. I'm hopeful that McClendon can work to get his FB% up to the upper 40's.

[TheCouga]

I should also point out that of the top 12 guys in the league who see the least pitches in the zone, three are on the Tigers (Boesch, Cabby, Fielder).

I'm surprised Delmon's not up there himself. He was kind of injured last year though, so maybe that's why.

But given his penchant for swinging at pitches out of the zone coupled with his power, you'd wonder why anyone would ever throw him a strike.

[will the thrill]

Maybe if people keep repeating that Boesch will get extra fastballs because of Miggy and Fielder, it will happen?


Spoiler alert: it won't.

does history say he'll see more strikes? he did seem, to excel in that spot last season....at least until batting second meant he was batting in front of Delmon Young

[will the thrill]

Main point though, he won't see more fastballs, every at bat is its own independent event. You'd think someone who was an ex-gm wouldn't write something like that.

why would we think that? I'd all but guarantee that Leyland thinks the same thing and he's still getting paid. Baseball and sports in general are so stuck on hiring guys with experience that we'll be dealing with front office and coach types that still think like they did in the 50's for the rest of our lifetime. I've never understood how coaches who always lose continue to get hired in every sport.

[The Truman Show]

does history say he'll see more strikes? he did seem, to excel in that spot last season....at least until batting second meant he was batting in front of Delmon Young

More strikes, yes. Pitchers will avoid walking him, but it's not like they can't throw a breaking ball for a strike in the major leagues. Maybe on a specific AB basis, he might get a 3-2 fastball he wouldn't have otherwise gotten, but that effect is negligible. Most importantly, despite the fewer walks, the quality of batted balls doesn't improve, so the strikes aren't easier to hit in any meaningful way.

[The Truman Show]

As far as Bowden, it's not like he was a terribly good GM.

[TigersFan81371]

I wonder if there are any writers who are bummed out by this, because animosity between the two would probably make for a juicier story.

[zimm]

hopefully Miggy's newfound love of conditioning work rubs off on his new buddy...

[John_Brian_K]

Maybe if people keep repeating that Boesch will get extra fastballs because of Miggy and Fielder, it will happen?


Spoiler alert: it won't.

About 2 posts down u just contradicted yourself.

[The Truman Show]

About 2 posts down u just contradicted yourself.

No I didn't. Unless you are going to say that, when everyone talks about seeing more fastballs when "protected," they mean a negligible handful of fastballs that have no measurable impact on hitting.

[Oblong]

"Hey fat boy..... you need to run some laps.

[John_Brian_K]

Maybe if people keep repeating that Boesch will get extra fastballs because of Miggy and Fielder, it will happen?


Spoiler alert: it won't.

More strikes, yes. Pitchers will avoid walking him, but it's not like they can't throw a breaking ball for a strike in the major leagues. Maybe on a specific AB basis, he might get a 3-2 fastball he wouldn't have otherwise gotten, but that effect is negligible. Most importantly, despite the fewer walks, the quality of batted balls doesn't improve, so the strikes aren't easier to hit in any meaningful way.

No I didn't. Unless you are going to say that, when everyone talks about seeing more fastballs when "protected," they mean a negligible handful of fastballs that have no measurable impact on hitting.

HTH.

[DaYooperASBDT]

[lindsay28]

[Yoda]

HTH.

Straight from the Cecil School of Semantics.

[John_Brian_K]

Straight from the Cecil School of Semantics.

My problem is with the tone.

I read this:

"Maybe if people keep repeating that Boesch will get extra fastballs because of Miggy and Fielder, it will happen?
Spoiler alert: it won't."

As this:

'Stop getting your hopes up people. Boesch will not excel in that spot. Listen to me I know best.' It sounds arrogant IMO.

Maybe I should have just asked him to prove his point by using real numbers.

When that post is followed by another which contradicts the (IMO) arrogant tone of the one above I am going to point it out.

[Yoda]

My problem is with the tone.

I read this:

"Maybe if people keep repeating that Boesch will get extra fastballs because of Miggy and Fielder, it will happen?
Spoiler alert: it won't."

As this:

'Stop getting your hopes up people. Boesch will not excel in that spot. Listen to me I know best.' It sounds arrogant IMO.

Maybe I should have just asked him to prove his point by using real numbers.

When that post is followed by another which contradicts the (IMO) arrogant tone of the one above I am going to point it out.

It's pretty obvious when someone says "he's going to see more fastball" they're insinuating more hittable pitches, since they're also insinuating that his numbers will go up because of it. There's simply no evidence that this actually happens. Or as Truman stated, the difference is most likely negligible.

And he never said that Boesch won't excel in that spot. He may be (probably?) more informed than you on the subject though, so there's no need to get all upset about it.

I'll also ask the question, what's wrong with being slightly arrogant? It's constantly attacked on here, but what's so wrong with it? If you study something and feel you have a good grasp on a particular subject, you should have some amount of arrogance. And if someone that doesn't study the same subject as you comes along and says something that isn't true, you should be able to inform them otherwise without being attacked for it. You should have confidence in what you're claiming.

I think if a person has no ounce of arrogance then they probably kind of suck. It's a bit ridiculous that it's constantly attacked on here. Some people love to believe everything Mario tells them, and that's perfectly fine, but some people like thinking outside the box. That should be fine too and those people shouldn't keep getting attacked for doing so.

[Brian]

It isn't that hard to see Boesch is going to see plenty of good pitches. Still he's batting second in the lineup so it's his job to get on base. He needs to raise his OBP. At the same time I don't think he'll have to hard a time given the big boy's who hit after him.

[tiger337]

Truman has swagger.

[Yoda]

Based on what, Brian? As stated earlier in the thread, Boesch was amongst the bottom 12 of players who saw the least pitches in the zone, and he was hitting in front of Cabrera and Martinez then too. What's suddenly going to change that makes pitchers start giving him hittable pitches? This is completely contrived by the media and based on absolutely nothing.

[John_Brian_K]

It's pretty obvious when someone says "he's going to see more fastball" they're insinuating more hittable pitches, since they're also insinuating that his numbers will go up because of it. There's simply no evidence that this actually happens. Or as Truman stated, the difference is most likely negligible.

Is that truth? Can you prove it? Not trying to sound like a jerk, but it has always been my opinion that what you are saying is false. Are there stats/facts to back up that claim? Because if there are not it becomes 'well I see this!' and 'Well I see that!' and it really solves nothing and a big waste of time to argue.

And he never said that Boesch won't excel in that spot. He may be (probably?) more informed than you on the subject though, so there's no need to get all upset about it.

Why would he be more informed? I do not know Truman from anyone else. Is he some kind of expert on baseball?

I'll also ask the question, what's wrong with being slightly arrogant? It's constantly attacked on here, but what's so wrong with it? If you study something and feel you have a good grasp on a particular subject, you should have some amount of arrogance. And if someone that doesn't study the same subject as you comes along and says something that isn't true, you should be able to inform them otherwise without being attacked for it. You should have confidence in what you're claiming.

That is all fine. See my first response. Can what you both are claiming be proven? If there are studies or something simliar why not just say that instead of acting superior? If I know something to be fact I claim it. I do not act superior and try to throw it in peoples face. I cite where I got the info from to help educate someone who may be incorrect.

So, again, is there evidence to prove the idea that a person hitting in front of 2 hitters similar to Cabby and Prince will NOT get more strikes to hit? If so i would like a link to the study to read it myself.

I think if a person has no ounce of arrogance then they probably kind of suck. It's a bit ridiculous that it's constantly attacked on here. Some people love to believe everything Mario tells them, and that's perfectly fine, but some people like thinking outside the box. That should be fine too and those people shouldn't keep getting attacked for doing so.

I do not know who Mario is, but I agree it gets annoying when a poster posts something and people come out of the woodwork to agree with them with nothing more than than '+1's' etc to add to the discussion. Especially if you are personally involved in a heated discussion about it.

Arrogance is SUPER annoying IMO.

[alwaysthrowheat]

Based on what, Brian? As stated earlier in the thread, Boesch was amongst the bottom 12 of players who saw the least pitches in the zone, and he was hitting in front of Cabrera and Martinez then too. What's suddenly going to change that makes pitchers start giving him hittable pitches? This is completely contrived by the media and based on absolutely nothing.

He actually ranked 9th (Cabby 12) and it's probably due to the fact that he swings so often (top 10% in the league). Also, just glancing through the guys who see the most fastballs in the league, most of them are not power hitters (Getz, Pierre, Herrera, Revere, Fuld, Gardner, Bonifacio, Figgins, Carroll, Span, etc.). This makes sense. I'd say there's probably a correlation between power and amount of fastballs seen, although that's just an assumption looking through the numbers quickly.

[The Truman Show]

'Stop getting your hopes up people. Boesch will not excel in that spot. Listen to me I know best.' It sounds arrogant IMO.

Well there's your problem, because that's not what I was saying. I don't even think that; on the contrary, I think Boesch is going to have a very good year. It's just going to be on his own merits, not because of the influence from Cabrera or Fielder.

I think the study on the effects of lineup protection was done by Tango in The Book. The data showed that on average, walks went down, but hitter BABIP didn't change in a statistically significant way. When people bring up "seeing more fastballs," the idea is that a hitter will put up better numbers because the pitches he's seeing will be easier to hit than they otherwise would be. But, if that were true, BABIP would go up, because easier pitches to hit -> more solid contact -> more likely to hit line drives. The fact that it historically doesn't means that we have to dig a little deeper to see if there's a flaw in the logic. In this case, the problem is that pitchers at the MLB level generally don't struggle to throw breaking pitches for strikes, so they can avoid walking the hitter without throwing complete meatballs.

I would wager that, at the AAA level, there actually is a protection benefit that can be measured, as those pitchers usually can't reliably throw good offspeed pitches for strikes.

And yeah, I know I sound arrogant, but, I dunno, I've always posted like that. I'm not really sure I could do anything about that even if I tried.

[JayVee]

I'm going to be arrogant for a minute.

It's not "less pitches" or "least pitches". Nor is it "amount of fastballs". It's "fewer/fewest pitches" and "number of fastballs".

Pitches are individual, distinct, countable items. Volumes and uncountable amounts of something are treated differently.

For instance: “I should drink less coffee,” but “I should eat fewer doughnuts.”

Incorrect English is SUPER annoying IMO.

[Yoda]

Why would he be more informed? I do not know Truman from anyone else. Is he some kind of expert on baseball?

This is the sort of response I expected. Why can't someone simply be more informed? Why is that so threatening? You've noted many times in the past that you don't study numbers and results as much as others here do. So why be so offended by someone being more informed than you?

[John_Brian_K]

Well there's your problem, because that's not what I was saying. I don't even think that; on the contrary, I think Boesch is going to have a very good year. It's just going to be on his own merits, not because of the influence from Cabrera or Fielder.

I think the study on the effects of lineup protection was done by Tango in The Book. The data showed that on average, walks went down, but hitter BABIP didn't change in a statistically significant way. When people bring up "seeing more fastballs," the idea is that a hitter will put up better numbers because the pitches he's seeing will be easier to hit than they otherwise would be. But, if that were true, BABIP would go up, because easier pitches to hit -> more solid contact -> more likely to hit line drives. The fact that it historically doesn't means that we have to dig a little deeper to see if there's a flaw in the logic. In this case, the problem is that pitchers at the MLB level generally don't struggle to throw breaking pitches for strikes, so they can avoid walking the hitter without throwing complete meatballs.

I would wager that, at the AAA level, there actually is a protection benefit that can be measured, as those pitchers usually can't reliably throw good offspeed pitches for strikes.

And yeah, I know I sound arrogant, but, I dunno, I've always posted like that. I'm not really sure I could do anything about that even if I tried.

BABIP didn't go up, but did OPS or the basic average? How about HR totals? How about runs scored? BABIP is good for some things, but I am not sure if it is the best stat to use in this case. I may be wrong about that, but I think looking at all of the stats would paint a better picture.

I do not expect you to change your style. Who the hell am I to tell someone how to post you know? It is what it is. I appreciate the discussion not turning to personal insults and you taking the time to actually provide additional commentary.

[apabruce]

I'm going to be arrogant for a minute.

It's not "less pitches" or "least pitches". Nor is it "amount of fastballs". It's "fewer/fewest pitches" and "number of fastballs".

Pitches are individual, distinct, countable items. Volumes and uncountable amounts of something are treated differently.

For instance: “I should drink less coffee,” but “I should eat fewer doughnuts.”

Incorrect English is SUPER annoying IMO.

Thank you.

[John_Brian_K]

I'm going to be arrogant for a minute.

It's not "less pitches" or "least pitches". Nor is it "amount of fastballs". It's "fewer/fewest pitches" and "number of fastballs".

Pitches are individual, distinct, countable items. Volumes and uncountable amounts of something are treated differently.

For instance: “I should drink less coffee,” but “I should eat fewer doughnuts.”

Incorrect English is SUPER annoying IMO.

Snob!



j/k