A.J. Burnett?

[Joec03]

MLB Network is reporting at least 4 other teams besides the Pirates are trying to get in on A.J. Burnett. Could the Tigers be another mystery team here? They've demonstrated they'd be interested in a veteran for the #5 spot (by making an offer to Oswalt). I think he could be a serviceable #5 and getting out of the spotlight of New York could do quite a bit for his numbers. What are your thoughts if the Tigers were in on A.J.?

[PuNk42AE]

I don't think there is any reason for the Tigers to trade anyone for Burnett when there are still other SP out there, along with their minor league guys.

[Yoda]

That and the fact that I think Turner would probably pitch better. Never mind the fact that it would also be good experience for him.

[Joec03]

Which veteran starters are left besides Oswalt, who we all know already turned down the Tigers? As far as the minor leaguers are concerned they could give you a lot worse than what Burnett would give them. We all saw how hard it was to find a consistent starter for the #4 spot last year. Also, the Tigers are notorious for rushing up minor league players and then having to deal with the inexperience problems later (Bonderman, Porcello, etc).

The yankees aren't asking for much in return for him and he would address a need and remove a question mark going into spring training.

[cruzer1]

He sucks.

[PuNk42AE]

I wouldn't say asking Pitt for Garrett Jones is "not much".

[Joec03]

MLB Trade Rumors: "Yankees...seek an OK prospect in return."

[Yoda]

Which veteran starters are left besides Oswalt, who we all know already turned down the Tigers? As far as the minor leaguers are concerned they could give you a lot worse than what Burnett would give them. We all saw how hard it was to find a consistent starter for the #4 spot last year. Also, the Tigers are notorious for rushing up minor league players and then having to deal with the inexperience problems later (Bonderman, Porcello, etc).

The yankees aren't asking for much in return for him and he would address a need and remove a question mark going into spring training.

Ugh... beating a dead horse but you don't know if they were "rushed" and aren't/weren't that good to begin with. MOST prospects don't reach their full potential, and it usually has more to do with the ability rather than the "rushed" tag that the clueless media loves to give them. I think if a pitcher has the ability he'll reach it no matter where he's pitching. They can learn in the big leagues too.

Just my two cents. And it may be the jack talking.

[The Truman Show]

I really don't think the Tigers' minor leaguers would do any worse than Burnett. You're talking about a 5.20 ERA in 2 full seasons. Duane Below and Adam Wilk are more than capable of that.

Also, he is really expensive and the Yankees aren't going to pay his entire salary unless the Tigers give up a real prospect. Not every terrible veteran needs to mined in the hope that you might squeeze out another mediocre year.

[tigernut]

NO FREKKIN` WAY!

[DaYooperASBDT]

A.J. Burnett? I'd rather deport him ala Brad Penny!

[catswithbats]

I'll pass.

[jonjd]

No.

[PuNk42AE]

Which veteran starters are left besides Oswalt,...

Oswalt (But like you said turned us down and sounds like it's between St. Louis and Boston)
Javier Vazquez (If you can get him away from retirement)
Ben Sheets (Better to give him a shot than trade someone)
Chris Young (Same as Sheets)
John Garland (Same as Sheets)
Brandon Webb (Same as Sheets)

All of those players could probably do the same if not better than Burnett. All of them have injury issues, but as it's been said we have a deep SP stable in the Majors/AAA in case there is injuries.

[Antrat]

One or even a combo of our young guys will do a fine job of being the number five starter.

No thanks.

[DetroitTigersRule]

I don't think we should get A.J he sucks and his to much money. I say if we are going to get a pitcher (although we should not get anybody and just stick with turner) we should go out and try to get Mark Buehrle.

[catswithbats]

I don't think we should get A.J he sucks and his to much money. I say if we are going to get a pitcher (although we should not get anybody and just stick with turner) we should go out and try to get Mark Buehrle.

It's a little too late for Buehrle.

[DetroitTigersRule]

true but we should still look into him

[Yoda]

You living under a rock dude? The Marlins signed him to a pretty big deal a couple months ago. :)

[DetroitTigersRule]

I know they did but I'm talking about future references and whats wrong living under a rock:)

[PuNk42AE]

Future References? Sign him after his 5 year contract is up and he's 41?

[Antrat]

[Yoda]

Marlins may trade him in 2 or 3 years but who's to say we'll even need him by then, or that he'll even be any good.

[Sven Draconian]

I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him, assuming it's a pure salary dump scenario (IE, we are not giving up anything of value back). Getting out of Yankee stadium, and out of the AL East should help his numbers.

His K and BB rates are solid enough for a #5. He allowed 31 HR last year, moving to COPA (assuming the same innings) that number could drop down between 20-25, which would be more in line with his career norms.

If all we are on the hook for is 7 million of his salary, that seems like a solid deal. I can see him bounce back to a mid 4's ERA and provide some pitching depth (Either Turner or Smyly can work out of the pen until the first starting pitcher injury).

Not sure if that is possible or not (probably not).

[MotorCityKitty]

I know they did but I'm talking about future references and whats wrong living under a rock:)

That makes no sense dude

[Yoda]

I say we not waste our time on him and look into Pujols hes a good hitter

[DetroitTigersRule]

Like what i first posted i dont think we should get anybody and just stick with turner

[tiger337]

Dude, I'm just here to talk Detroit Tigers baseball.

[Sports_Freak]

We need more than one SP. It's very rare to make it through a season with 5 starters. I know we have some arms to fill in a game here or there, but injuries or ineffectiveness may create a need for a solid SP. But Burnett? Pass.

[Tramfan]

Ugh... beating a dead horse but you don't know if they were "rushed" and aren't/weren't that good to begin with. MOST prospects don't reach their full potential, and it usually has more to do with the ability rather than the "rushed" tag that the clueless media loves to give them. I think if a pitcher has the ability he'll reach it no matter where he's pitching. They can learn in the big leagues too.

Just my two cents. And it may be the jack talking.

+1 Yoda. In my strong opinion more times than not, it's about ability, either you have what it takes or you don't ...

[T&P_Fan]

Hell no on A.J. He is awful.

We have young guys that can perform better. And I don't believe in the concept that players can be rushed, it is just something people say when a player fizzles out. You can either play or you can't.

[Tramfan]

Personally I think the Tiggers are set up nicely with the options they currently have vying for the number five spot. Any one of the these could surprise, sink or swim. If they all sink, there could very well be another option through the waiver route at the end of spring. However with five options I don't think the latter is very likely ...

[Sven Draconian]

Hell no on A.J. He is awful.

We have young guys that can perform better. And I don't believe in the concept that players can be rushed, it is just something people say when a player fizzles out. You can either play or you can't.

So if you can't do calculus by the 5th grade, it isn't going to happen ever?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

So if you can't do calculus by the 5th grade, it isn't going to happen ever?

Because the difference between AA/AAA ball and MLB is similar to the difference between 5th grade math and calculus.

[tiger337]

I think players can be rushed, but I don't think most fans are in a position to know when that is.

[Gehringer_2]

So if you can't do calculus by the 5th grade, it isn't going to happen ever?

While it is true there are things that are extremely hard to learn once certain prime developmental 'windows' have passed (the most obvious being the ease with which children learn a second language accent free, something only rarely accomplished by adults) what is interesting is that with athletes you get into conflicts between brain and body development. The body may not yet be strong enough or the skeleton developed enough for certain things to be achieved or if achievable done safely without sustaining injury (like throwing a lot of breaking balls), even though it might be better from the standpoint of gaining neuro-muscular command to start learning it earlier.

[The Truman Show]

They have other pitchers besides Turner that can be a 5th starter and be better than Burnett.

[Sven Draconian]

Because the difference between AA/AAA ball and MLB is similar to the difference between 5th grade math and calculus.

Explain the difference. You're thesis was that a pitcher cannot be rushed, meaning, any 18 year old fresh out of high school can be thrown into MLB with an equal likelihood of success as if they were to wait until their full development, which I'll put at age 23 (which is somewhat arbitrary).

That is the same as saying that a 12 year old (5th grader) should be able to learn calculus just the same as a 17 year old high school senior.

Either a player can play, or he can't. Either you can learn math, or you can't.

While it is true there are things that are extremely hard to learn once certain prime developmental 'windows' have passed (the most obvious being the ease with which children learn a second language accent free, something only rarely accomplished by adults) what is interesting is that with athletes you get into conflicts between brain and body development. The body may not yet be strong enough or the skeleton developed enough for certain things to be achieved or if achievable done safely without sustaining injury (like throwing a lot of breaking balls), even though it might be better from the standpoint of gaining neuro-muscular command to start learning it earlier.

Taken a step further, what is neccessary to succeed at a high level, might not yet be achievable biologically. Another good baseball example would be a physically weak hitter (meaning somehow who doesn't have a lot of strength) who doesn't have the strength to drive the ball the opposite way. To hit with any power, he has to pull the ball. He gets into bad habbits, trying to pull everything. One way to look at that is to say he is not a good enough hitter to hit in the big leagues. Which is true. Another way is to say he was rushed, played above his head and developed poor habbits to attempt to compensate for his physical inferiority. If given more time to develop strength (which should natrually happen for almost all males as they progress into their 20s), he might not have to pull the ball to make up for his lack of strength.

Any number of similar scenarios can play out. A pitcher might not have refined his control. Because he leaves too many balls over the plate, or high, he overthows everything to compensate for his poor location. This leads to worse control, or injury or cumulative stress that gradually weakens his arm over time which makes his "stuff" worse.

This is all coupled with the mental side of the game (namely, confidence). How does the player respond to being thrown into the proverbial deep end? Is he mature enough, or just plain smart enough, to consistantly re-invent his approach when the opponent adjusts?

An interesting debate from Tigers history is Bonderman. Was he rushed? Would his arm have been healthier had he mastered that elusive changeup and not relied on the slider? Why couldn't the changeup? Was it a physical inability, or a lack of confidence because half the time he threw a changeup it was in the air for 370 feet. Would he have been a true ace if he spent his age 20 and 21 seasons in Erie and Toledo mastering his secondary pitches under no pressure, rather than facing A-Rod in the Bronx during a meaningful game?

[The Truman Show]

The calculus analogy doesn't work because there is a lot of math you need to learn in the intermediate between 5th grade and calculus for it to make any logical sense. Algebra, geometry, trig, etc. There aren't different types of baseball that have to be learned in order. But, still, there are 5th graders who can do calculus just like there are teenagers who can handle major league baseball.

And, yes, I believe that most development is done irrespective of level. There are tons of players who stagnate in the minors and learn in the majors. The main reason most players sit in the minors is because they aren't good enough to play in the majors yet. The majority of organizations push guys into the majors as soon as they think the guy is ready to produce at a level worthwhile to the team. The ones that don't are usually trying to game service time, or have some other consideration (e.g. blocked position).

The Bonderman debate is only really interesting if you start with the assumption that he would have learned a changeup in the minors. There's really no reason to think that: there are tons of pitchers who try to learn secondary pitches and fail. How many offseasons, spring trainings, bullpens, side sessions did he have to learn it? If he couldn't pick it up in those settings, I doubt throwing it to some AAA hitters would have made a difference. In the minors, all the coaching and development is taking place in those same bullpens, workouts.

Aside from that, he developed exactly in the major leagues that you would expect in the minors: he was terrible at 19, and got progressively better until he was injured. And his injury was surgery to remove a rib that was blocking bloodflow, I don't see how that would relate to any arm overuse.

[alwaysthrowheat]

They have other pitchers besides Turner that can be a 5th starter and be better than Burnett.

Like 5. The guy has had an ERA over 5 the last two years.