Skinny Miggy

[maybemaybenot]

I really doubt having extra fat around the gut makes one stronger and more durable. That being said, strength and durability are not things I'd ever worry about with Cabrera. He was a lot smaller when he played for the Marlins and he was still an elite hitter. More Mobility and flexible muscles (for avoiding muscle pulls) will help.

Does anyone really believe Jose Bautista would be better off with a roll of fat around his waist? Miguel (for lack of a better word) was awesome with the Marlins.

[tiger337]

Does anyone really believe Jose Bautista would be better off with a roll of fat around his waist?

yes, Drizzle does!

[John_Brian_K]

And the Gold Glove for thiird baseman in the AL for 2012 goes to.....Miguel Cabrera!

[nd1377]

And the Gold Glove for thiird baseman in the AL for 2012 goes to.....Miguel Cabrera!

That would be awesome.

I could see it if he was working out and learning from Inge.

[lesgoblu02]

That would be awesome.

I could see it if he was working out and learning from Inge.

Inge: Always go to second with every throw.

Cabrera: But what if the easy play is...

Inge: ALWAYS!!! And fergodssake, you don't have to swing at everything. Mix in a check swing every so often. It really throws the pitchers off.

[Antrat]

apparently inge is hitting it hard.

Too bad muscles can't help you stop swinging at balls in the dirt, two feet outside the strike zone.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Does anyone really believe Jose Bautista would be better off with a roll of fat around his waist? Miguel (for lack of a better word) was awesome with the Marlins.

TrainingPeaks | Fat and the Endurance Athlete

It also bears noting on this topic that the typical endurance athlete gets 30 to 35 percent of his or her daily calories from fat—substantially more than the minimum. Indeed, even most elite American endurance athletes maintain relatively high-fat diets. The fact that our most gifted runners, cyclists, rowers, etcetera are routinely able to win national championships on a high-fat diet is the best possible proof that a high-fat diet is not inimical to endurance performance.

Based perhaps in part on this commonsense consideration, as well as on the relevant science, the American Dietetic Association and the American College of Sports Medicine now recommend that athletes get 20 to 35 percent of their calories from fat. Gone is the notion that the minimal adequate level of fat intake is also the optimal or even the maximum acceptable level of fat intake. It is now recognized that many athletes can perform equally well at a range of fat intake levels, and that some individual athletes may need to experiment before they find their personal “sweet spot” within that range.

I'm not saying a beer belly is beneficial. I'm saying a fat reserve (and/or a high fat diet, certainly) is beneficial, and I'm not sure what a few extra pounds at a person's center of mass is going to take away.

[tiger337]

TrainingPeaks | Fat and the Endurance Athlete



I'm not saying a beer belly is beneficial. I'm saying a fat reserve (and/or a high fat diet, certainly) is beneficial, and I'm not sure what a few extra pounds at a person's center of mass is going to take away.

The article seems to back up my contention that the extra layer of fat around the gut is not beneficial. If endurance athletes can get enough fat intake without growing a belly (I rarely see an endurance athlete with a belly), then it shows that fat around the belly is not needed for endurance.

Cabrera was obviously not happy with his weight since he has lost weight and says he want to lose more. He may not have reach his desired level yet.

[John_Brian_K]

Inge is raging on steroids IMO. j/k

Anyway that pic looks little shopped to me.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

The article seems to back up my contention that the extra layer of fat around the gut is not beneficial. If endurance athletes can get enough fat intake without growing a belly (I rarely see an endurance athlete with a belly), then it shows that fat around the belly is not needed for endurance.

Cabrera was obviously not happy with his weight since he has lost weight and says he want to lose more. He may not have reach his desired level yet.

again, when i say a few extra pounts around the belly, i'm not talking 20 like others have seemed to infer. ideally, he keeps working on getting stronger and in cardio shape, and all that muscle he has burns away what fat he doesn't need and keeps what he does, and it all it works itself out. but i find no benefit to doing cardio like a mofo just to burn an extra 5-10 pounds of fat so people think you look slim in your uniform.

i would wager most males with 'flat' stomachs (no beer belly or six-pack) probably havea good amount of sub-cutaneous fat already. marathon runners obviously burn a crap-load of calories in training, so i would think they would have to inject fat directly to get any extra extraneous fat. and they probably have 10% the muscle of Miggy, and muscle of course requires more energy to work.

.

anyways, here's an article from 2008 talking about miggy losing weight. this was the season leyland thought miggy was too light, which was his only 'off' season since 2004.

New Tiger Cabrera focused on all-around greatness - USATODAY.com

sounds a bit familiar.

[tiger337]

and they probably have 10% the muscle of Miggy, and muscle of course requires more energy to work.

.

I'd bet it's a much higher fraction than 10%. The top endurance athletes have a lot of muscle in their lower body, not as much in their upper body typically. I would also guess that elite endurance athletes work harder (in terms of energy expended) than third basemen. Pitchers and catchers do take quite a beating.

The pitchers and catchers do take quite a beating.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

again, when i say a few extra pounts around the belly, i'm not talking 20 like others have seemed to infer.

They probably inferred it because they didn't think it likely that Miguel would drop his weight to the extent that he would have virtually no body fat.

[catswithbats]

anyways, here's an article from 2008 talking about miggy losing weight. this was the season leyland thought miggy was too light, which was his only 'off' season since 2004.

New Tiger Cabrera focused on all-around greatness - USATODAY.com

sounds a bit familiar.

Isn't it possible his "off season" could be at least partly due to switching to a new league?

[tiger337]

Cabrera still hit for good power in 2008, so that was apparently unaffected. His batting average and walks were down. He also swung at a lot of pitches outside the zone that year, which could be an indication he was trying to do too much.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

They probably inferred it because they didn't think it likely that Miguel would drop his weight to the extent that he would have virtually no body fat.

but there's still pretty large differences between 0 body fat, a ripped dude, 5 pounds over ideal, and 20 pounds over.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Cabrera still hit for good power in 2008, so that was apparently unaffected. His batting average and walks were down. He also swung at a lot of pitches outside the zone that year, which could be an indication he was trying to do too much.

all possible. maybe jim leyland was wrong about that. or maybe he just didn't feel as strong as he was used to.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

I'd bet it's a much higher fraction than 10%. The top endurance athletes have a lot of muscle in their lower body, not as much in their upper body typically. I would also guess that elite endurance athletes work harder (in terms of energy expended) than third basemen. Pitchers and catchers do take quite a beating.

The pitchers and catchers do take quite a beating.

10% was an exaggeration on my part.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

IIRC, Cabrera was only bad the first 6 weeks of 2008 - the rest of 2008 he was right in line with career norms up to that point in time.

My guess is that was tied to new league / new team / pressure of living up to the big contract / new position , etc. rather than being too thin / not strong enough, but that was Jim's narrative.

[DaYooperASBDT]

I would hope all of them are. All professional athletes should be in outstanding shape. It's their job.

This guy agrees with you 100% !!!

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

but there's still pretty large differences between 0 body fat, a ripped dude, 5 pounds over ideal, and 20 pounds over.

Where do you think Miguel should be at? It isn't clear to me. That was my point.

[DaYooperASBDT]

It's all water. Well, sometimes beer.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Where do you think Miguel should be at? It isn't clear to me. That was my point.

like Adrian Beltre, plus 5 pounds or so to be safe. I would say Beltre has an extra 5-10 pounds around his midsection that does not form a noticeable belly.

[TheCouga]

More fat does mean your body has more mass to propel at the ball during your swing if you're using your legs properly and your arms are strong enough so that they don't absorb too much of the impact. I don't know how much difference it should make, but I wouldn't mind if Cabrera had about 10 lbs of extra belly fat -- especially since a lot of players lose weight during the season.

[Gehringer_2]

More fat does mean your body has more mass to propel at the ball during your swing if you're using your legs properly and your arms are strong enough so that they don't absorb too much of the impact. I don't know how much difference it should make, but I wouldn't mind if Cabrera had about 10 lbs of extra belly fat -- especially since a lot of players lose weight during the season.

I don't think I would ever argue that 240 doesn't give you a lot more leverage to swing a bat from than 165, but this is a situation where the law of decreasing returns sets in. The distribution of HR power to player weight throughout the history of the game pretty is good evidence that there is little if any marginal value for MLB hitters to get much above 240

[Who is the Drizzle?]

I don't think I would ever argue that 240 doesn't give you a lot more leverage to swing a bat from than 165, but this is a situation where the law of decreasing returns sets in. The distribution of HR power to player weight throughout the history of the game pretty is good evidence that there is little if any marginal value for MLB hitters to get much above 240

isn't there also a disadvantage to being tall tho? 240 for miggy <> 240 for prince or pablo, but I bet if they were 6'4 with the same body type they'd be over 240.

[tiger337]

According to the Bill James Handbook, Cabrera used to weigh 210 with the Marlins. I don't know how accurate that is, but he sure looked a lot smaller back then. He was likely still developing as a hitter, yet still hit 33 homers in 2004 and 2005. His power output has stayed relatively consistent at different weights over the years. So, no I don't think he needs to be big to hit for power. I'd rather he slim down and be able to field better while still slugging.

I think the steroids era has put us into a mindset where we think hitters have to be huge. If you go back 20 years though, the top hitters were generally smaller than today and could still hit homers. Bigger is not always better.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

According to the Bill James Handbook, Cabrera used to weigh 210 with the Marlins. I don't know how accurate that is, but he sure looked a lot smaller back then. He was likely still developing as a hitter, yet still hit 33 homers in 2004 and 2005. His power output has stayed relatively consistent at different weights over the years. So, no I don't think he needs to be big to hit for power. I'd rather he slim down and be able to field better while still slugging.

I think the steroids era has put us into a mindset where we think hitters have to be huge. If you go back 20 years though, the top hitters were generally smaller than today and could still hit homers. Bigger is not always better.

He's put on a lot of muscle since then, so he pretty much has to be huge if he wants to maintain his strength.

In general, I'd say he should be doing strength/flexibility exercises, eating right, and doing agility drills to get ready for 3rd base and the MLB season. If he does that, the weight issues will almost certainly take care of themselves. The dude has a boatload of muscle and has been thin before, I don't think he has to do anything other than not eat crazily to lose weight. What I absolutely don't want to see him do is start running 5K a day or something thinking that losing weight as fast as possible is the best thing to do. Hopefully we can agree on that, and not worry about the rest.

[tiger337]

What's wrong with running 5K a day? That's hardly anything for a young athlete during the off-season. I don't know if that's necessary if he's doing other stuff. It's not a lot though. Anyway, I think Cabrera and his trainers know what he needs to do lot better than either of us do. It seems like he's in the process of slimming down. We'll see how it goes this spring.

But I do agree that losing more than 10% of his body weight over an off-season probably wouldn't be a great idea.

[DaYooperASBDT]

According to the Bill James Handbook, Cabrera used to weigh 210 with the Marlins. I don't know how accurate that is, but he sure looked a lot smaller back then. He was likely still developing as a hitter, yet still hit 33 homers in 2004 and 2005. His power output has stayed relatively consistent at different weights over the years. So, no I don't think he needs to be big to hit for power. I'd rather he slim down and be able to field better while still slugging.

I think the steroids era has put us into a mindset where we think hitters have to be huge. If you go back 20 years though, the top hitters were generally smaller than today and could still hit homers. Bigger is not always better.

Ted Williams and Hank Aaron were both beanpoles for a significant portion of their careers, and Joe Morgan was no behemoth.

Strong wrists can make up for a lot.

[DaYooperASBDT]

I still say a little gut helps though!

[potthole]

I still say a little gut helps though!

Tony Gwynn wasn't ever known as a power hitter, was he? I only knew him as a percentage hitter, but I'm also too young to remember a big chunk of his early career.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

What's wrong with running 5K a day? That's hardly anything for a young athlete during the off-season. I don't know if that's necessary if he's doing other stuff. It's not a lot though. Anyway, I think Cabrera and his trainers know what he needs to do lot better than either of us do. It seems like he's in the process of slimming down. We'll see how it goes this spring.

But I do agree that losing more than 10% of his body weight over an off-season probably wouldn't be a great idea.

What does running that much train a baseball player for? You want your muscles being explosive, not being trained for endurance. Seems counter-productive to me. Well for miggy anyways, other types of players I'm sure it'd be good for.

[tiger337]

What does running that much train a baseball player for? You want your muscles being explosive, not being trained for endurance. Seems counter-productive to me. Well for miggy anyways, other types of players I'm sure it'd be good for.

Pitchers run all the time, but I agree it would be less helpful for a third baseman. It might help build endurance preventing leg weariness over the course of a season at a new position. He's probably doing other aerobic stuff though. I actually don't think 5k is that much though and I could see some players doing it regularly just for conditioning.

[Yoda]

What does running that much train a baseball player for? You want your muscles being explosive, not being trained for endurance. Seems counter-productive to me. Well for miggy anyways, other types of players I'm sure it'd be good for.

Ummm... to help you lose weight??

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Running 5k daily is not much. I'd expect any professional athlete to be able to do that with relatively little training, and you really don't need that much endurance to accomplish it.

I don't think that is the sort of distance that would dramatically change muscle types and reduce explosiveness.

[Titus Tiger]

We might be arguing the same thing here, depending on what we mean by too little and too much body fat. I guess bottom line is he has to be at a weight he feels best at, both strength wise and energy wise. I assume that's somewhere in between a beer belly and six-pack. I think he's pretty much hit that range right now.

what people feel comfortable at? I feel comfortable at being 25 pounds over weight, but I am not the best athlete at that weight

[tiger337]

When I saw Titus here, I was expecting to see a gif of Cabrera running.

[Titus Tiger]

I already know Cabrera is a great hitter. He was a great hitter with Florida before he got fat. He's a great hitter now and will likely continue to be a great hitter for several years. The more relevant question is how well he will field and what kind of physique he should have so that he can maximize both his hitting and fielding.

But really, the question I had for Drizzle and my comments about runners and fat was a different question entirely.

I think you have to add over all health and how it affects his career... Extra weight probably adds the chance of injury and slows you down (which will hurt batting average and extra base hits)

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Ummm... to help you lose weight??

there are far more beneficial things to do if you are in miggy's position than run for 20-30 mins. i would be he's doing sprints and things like that, for instance. And lifting weights for an hour or two burns about the same amount of calories. And those other things help his baseball performance a lot more than running 5K.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Running 5k daily is not much. I'd expect any professional athlete to be able to do that with relatively little training, and you really don't need that much endurance to accomplish it.

I don't think that is the sort of distance that would dramatically change muscle types and reduce explosiveness.

I was always under the impression that running 5K for a big dude is like running 10K for a dude like you and me. There's a lot more mass you have to translate, a lot more body area that the blood has to pump oxygen to.