Miguel Cabrera to Play Thiird Base

[John_Brian_K]

Big Fella sure looks happy in that pic...BInge not so much.



These pics were posted about 2 hours ago on google Images...I think they are from 2008.

Alright I was just going to post this in the Castelanos thread, but I felt it deserved its own thread to break away from the Prince Fielder thread.

We all know by now that Leyland has said Miggy will play thiird. What I wanted to make this thread for was to discuss how many games we think he will play along with some history on his playing time at that position along with any other important defensive shifts this entails.

First off I think Cabby will play around 100 games there. I think that is plenty for a player switching positions. He may play more or less, but for some reason this number sounds good to me (maybe this is also the number of games we win this year )

Apart from 2010 when he only played 150 games (Anyone recall why that was? Was it injury? I cannot recall right off the top of my head.) Miggy plays just about every day.

162 games
100 at thiird
24 times DH about once a week
Leaves 38 games
We assume he will get at least 2 days off
So 36 at 1B.

I have no idea if JL would play him back at 1B when they are trying to retrain his brain to play thiird, but I am guessing they will DH Prince at least some of the time this year with Martinez out. Once a week for Prince would be 36 as well.

I am not sure if this would be considered high or low. My first thought is that it is pretty high, but I am going with it for now.

Jay Jaffe weighs in from BP (Thanks Beantown for bringing the story to everyones attention)

Baseball Prospectus | Prospectus Hit and Run: The Heavyweight Infield

The important sentence from that text wall is:

"There is literally no correlation—.00, folks—between corner infield FRAA and winning percentage."

The stats:

977 total chances at 3B
268 Put Outs
661 Assists
.951 Fielding %
48 Errors

90% of those stats are from 2006-2007

[RedRamage]

That was an interesting read JBK. Thanks for the link.

[RedRamage]

BTW, in the poll I voted for 100-150. Perhaps it's more wishful thinking than reality, but I hope that Cabrera at least works enough that he can be the starting 3Ber. I don't expect him to be stellar, but I hope he is just better than awful.

[catswithbats]

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

[TJ]

The BP article doesn't even mention the name "Brandon Inge" in regard to at least the theoretical possibility of playing him at 3B for his alleged defensive wizardry and forcing Cabrera/Fielder to share 1B/DH.

Seriously I think the best solution might be to scour the minor leagues for a "Adam Everett-type" all-glove/no-hit Class AAAA shortstop (notice I say "Adam Everett-type," NOT Adam Everett) -- guys like that can usually be had relatively cheaply -- and put that guy at SS, shift Peralta to 2B.

A super-scooper defensive-wizard .225-hitting SS would help compensate for bad range on both the part of Cabrera AND Peralta (Peralta's range, below-average at SS, would probably be OK at 2B).

In regard to the question, my guess is playing time will shake out something like this (assuming no injuries):

Cabrera
3B: Start 100 games (shifted to 1B for defense in late innings in 20 games)
1B: 30 games
DH: 30 games

Fielder:
1B: 130 games
DH: 30 games

Young:
LF: 100 games
DH: 60 games

Leyland of course will give each of these guys 15-20 games off plus people will get hurt, PLUS all 3 of these guys will get pinch-run for probably a dozen times, but in a perfect world my bet is the breakdown will look something like this.

[tiger337]

Leyland of course will give each of these guys 15-20 games off

every Thursday afternoon.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Cabrera has a track record of being pretty durable, IIRC. I think the Tigers have committed 100% to this - so I voted 150 plus.

[TJ]

Cabrera and Fielder both have been pretty durable but as we know Leyland likes to give EVERYBODY a day off every couple of weeks.

If they go all-in with Cabrera at 3B you have to figure he'll shift to 1B on the days Fielder sits out.

Unless Leyland decides to just go with the "junior varsity lineup" (i.e., bench EVERYBODY) once a week just to avoid those aggravating double-digit win streaks.

[Nate7474]

Cabrera did play 161 games last year, he doesn't get to many days off and Id assume that it'll be the same this year for both him and Prince

[PattyMac]

I remember Carlos Guillen at first being the problem in 2008 moreso than Cabrera at third. Am I mistaken?

[DTroppens]

Leyland of course will give each of these guys 15-20 games off plus people will get hurt, PLUS all 3 of these guys will get pinch-run for probably a dozen times, but in a perfect world my bet is the breakdown will look something like this.

Layland played Cabrera almost every day last year. I think he missed two or three games. I'm sure he'll give Fielder the same treatment.

[TJ]

I remember Carlos Guillen at first being the problem in 2008 more so than Cabrera at third. Am I mistaken?

That is absolutely the case and any suggestion otherwise is horse hockey.

Cabrera's defensive play at 3B in 2008 could be best described as "slightly below average." Of his errors, several were caused by the inability of Guillen, who was an utter disaster at 1B, to catch a throw right at him.

The Cabrera-3B/ Guillen-1B experiment blew up because of Guillen's complete implosion at 1B. Normally the next move would have been to shift Guillen to DH, but Gary Sheffield was ensconced at DH at the moment and either could not or would not move to any other position.

Yet another example of the dangers of allowing too many slug-footed 1B/DH types to pile up on your roster, but there's a hell of a difference if you're dealing with Cabrera and Fielder vs. Guillen and Sheffield.

[Mark The Shark]

I remember Carlos Guillen at first being the problem in 2008 moreso than Cabrera at third. Am I mistaken?

No. Safe to say that -- literally -- you and I were equally competent as Carlos Guillen as major league first basemen.

[catswithbats]

I remember Carlos Guillen at first being the problem in 2008 moreso than Cabrera at third. Am I mistaken?

No, you're not. Cabrera wasn't great, but the cardboard cutout of Guillén standing at 1B certainly didn't do him any favors.

Also, I feel like moving Cabrera from 3B was as much as getting Guillén away from 1B as it was moving Cabrera. Guillén was awful.

[tiger337]

I believe Cabrera will be be a poor defender, one of the worst 3Bs in baseball. However, I think he'll be adequate enough to start most games along with some DH rotation. I'll say he'll start around 100-120 games at third base, plus do some DHing in certain games with ground ball pitchers on the mound. Fielder will DH some days with Cabrera moving to first.

[Gehringer_2]

I believe Cabrera will be be a poor defender, one of the worst 3Bs in baseball. However, I think he'll be adequate enough to start most games along with some DH rotation. I'll say he'll start around 100 games at third base, plus do some DHing in certain games with ground ball pitchers on the mound. Fielder will DH some days with Cabrera moving to first.

I'll go higher. I don't see -4.2 and -3.4 (his UZRs from his two full seasons at 3b with the fish) as predictors of epic badness. And he's still under 30 - so I don't see why we think there should be that much fall off physically either. But that's not the main reason. My take on this is that with his alcohol issues being 'outed', there is a possibility that we now have an improved control over the number of hangover games we are getting - which could be a much bigger plus for his fielding than the 3 yrs since he played the position in Miami. Watching him in the field the two days after the infamous White-Sox party night made it pretty plain to me that his bad days in the field were not all talent related. If he could manage a -3.5 UZR as a 25 yr party boy, I think he can do as well as a sober 29 yr old. (assuming we do have him sober now)

[tiger337]

I'll go higher. I don't see -4.2 and -3.4 (his UZRs from his two full seasons at 3b with the fish) as predictors of epic badness.

I think he's bigger than he was with the Marlins and he's played through some nagging injuries the last couple of years. I don't know if he'll be able to do that as well playing third base. If he plays there 150 games, I expect something like -20 runs which is bad but not epically bad. I'm very curious to see how he does though. I want the season to start tomorrow.

His other fielding measures are not as good as his UZR:

DRS -9 and -16
Total Zone -6 and -11
FRAA -10 and -10

[sabretooth]

I believe Cabrera will be be a poor defender, one of the worst 3Bs in baseball. However, I think he'll be adequate enough to start most games along with some DH rotation. I'll say he'll start around 100-120 games at third base, plus do some DHing in certain games with ground ball pitchers on the mound. Fielder will DH some days with Cabrera moving to first.

This sounds about right to me.

[sabretooth]

I'll go higher. I don't see -4.2 and -3.4 (his UZRs from his two full seasons at 3b with the fish) as predictors of epic badness. And he's still under 30 - so I don't see why we think there should be that much fall off physically either. But that's not the main reason. My take on this is that with his alcohol issues being 'outed', there is a possibility that we now have an improved control over the number of hangover games we are getting - which could be a much bigger plus for his fielding than the 3 yrs since he played the position in Miami. Watching him in the field the two days after the infamous White-Sox party night made it pretty plain to me that his bad days in the field were not all talent related. If he could manage a -3.5 UZR as a 25 yr party boy, I think he can do as well as a sober 29 yr old. (assuming we do have him sober now)

If Cabrera manages anything better than a -10 UZR they should throw a parade. I say 5:1 against.

If Cabrera is better than -5 UZR they should canonize Rafael Belliard. I say 100:1 against.

Cabrera's been a poor fielder at 1B. After a pretty nice 2009, he's regressed in 2010 and 2011. He's older/bigger/slower now than he was when he pulled off -4 UZRs at 3B with the Marlins. I just don't see it happening again.

[sabretooth]

If Cabrera manages to be a decent fielder at 3b (let''s say something better than a -5 UZR) this will turn out to be the best move in the history of sports.

If Cabrera manages to have a plus UZR I promise to (a) pledge my undying fealty to DD and Smokes and (b) personally hire people to accompany Cabrera and Rafael Belliard wherever they go shouting "Hosanna!" and throwing rose petals at their feet.

[keystone]

I don't think Inge makes it out of Spring Training. He isn't a 'super fielder' like he was. Douglas and Worth can make the same plays he can and hit better too. With Miggy getting the majority of play, I don't see a place for him.

[DaYooperASBDT]

I'm not concerned about giving up some defense at third to get Fielder's bat into the lineup.
He'll be better than, say, Bobby Bonilla.

I see the Tigers did pretty good when they shifted Hank Greenburg to LF and Rudy York to 1B.
Then there was that time when they moved their center fielder to shortstop ..... just before a World Series!

[Gehringer_2]

If Cabrera manages to be a decent fielder at 3b (let''s say something better than a -5 UZR) this will turn out to be the best move in the history of sports.

If Cabrera manages to have a plus UZR I promise to (a) pledge my undying fealty to DD and Smokes and (b) personally hire people to accompany Cabrera and Rafael Belliard wherever they go shouting "Hosanna!" and throwing rose petals at their feet.

Now I'm really going to have root hard for him!

[Chili Mac Davis]

I'm not concerned about giving up some defense at third to get Fielder's bat into the lineup.
He'll be better than, say, Bobby Bonilla.

I see the Tigers did pretty good when they shifted Hank Greenburg to LF and Rudy York to 1B.
Then there was that time when they moved their center fielder to shortstop ..... just before a World Series!

Good thought with Bobby Bonilla. I had thought about Tony Perez moving from 3rd to 1st. Killebrew. Mark McGuire came up as a 3rd baseman. It does appear that they never move back to third, doesn't it? Even Pete Rose. Ernie Banks never moved back to SS. I'm trying to think of a successful move back to 3rd...I realize Cabby is only 29 and I have hopes for this move, but...

Last year when we needed to get Victor into the lineup for inter league play it was Avilla who moved to third, not Cabby.

I'm not sure how successful the Greenberg move was. He left town after one year in the OF IIRC. And Stanley supposedly blew out his arm playing SS.

We could always get Marcus Thames to come back and play some third... How NOT to throw a baseball from 3B, by Marcus Thames - YouTube

[IdahoBert]

"I think he wants to show the world he can play third base," Leyland said. "I don't think this is going to be bad. He told me he wants to play there."

Detroit Tigers are adamant about Miguel Cabrera playing third base - MLB - ESPN


Miguel hasn't had a lot to prove in the last few years aside from the fact that he can overcome the issues associated with alcohol. He is a proud man and lock on the Hall of Fame. If playing third well or well enough is actually possible, I have no doubt he'll do it.

[Sports_Freak]

If there would have been a choice under 50 games, it would have had my vote.
I just can't see him at 3rd base, but I hope I'm wrong.

[Jeff6851]

Layland played Cabrera almost every day last year. I think he missed two or three games. I'm sure he'll give Fielder the same treatment.

I think he learned his lesson in the playoffs. They may be in the lineup but I'm sure both will get plenty of DH days

[Antrat]

I think that even if he does decent at third, every time he commits an error, the reaction to it will be overblown.
Then it could get to be a mental thing with him. Knowing that if he even bobbles a ball, it will be fodder for the sports writers and fans.

I really hope he surprises the hell out of everyone.

[Dawgs]

The 64 or 65 starts Fister and Porcello giveus will coincide with most of the days Miggy has off/at 1st/at DH. So I chose the 50-100. I see Inge with 60 starts at 3rd. Delmon will have 100 starts at DH with Raburn in left and Santiago at 2nd on most of those days.

I can see this working fine for this season but to work in years 2-4 they will need Victor to play some at catcher while parting ways with DY. Victor though may have to go in the end as well.

Leyland has lots of moving parts with this roster more due to subpar defense than any great utility. Will be fun and infuriating to watch him work.

[DET Mr Malefic]

Layland played Cabrera almost every day last year. I think he missed two or three games. I'm sure he'll give Fielder the same treatment.

And of those games he missed, one or two were because his wife had a baby.

[HeyAbbott]

If there would have been a choice under 50 games, it would have had my vote.
I just can't see him at 3rd base, but I hope I'm wrong.

I pretty much agree with this. I do think that both Porcello and Fister have elevated WHIP as a result of the IF not getting to ground balls and poor fielding at 1B. Worth or Kelly will be fine late inning replacements. Inge should get his fly fishing gear in order.

[Ingefanclub]

You will all be swearing at Cabrera when he lets all the ground balls scoot passed him.
I think he more than makes up for it with his bat however.

Inge probably does come in for defensive purposes in late innings when Cabrera has just batted.
Though they could move Cabrera to LF to make sure he stays on the field that would weaken the LF position.
I doubt you want people bunting on Cabrera in one run games late.

[4hzglory]

You will all be swearing at Cabrera when he lets all the ground balls scoot passed him.
I think he more than makes up for it with his bat however.

Inge probably does come in for defensive purposes in late innings when Cabrera has just batted.
Though they could move Cabrera to LF to make sure he stays on the field that would weaken the LF position.
I doubt you want people bunting on Cabrera in one run games late.

I don't think there is any way you take your superstar out for defensive purposes. That is one way to lose a team and the odds aren't much greater that you would lose the game because of 1 particular player in 1 inning than they are that that player's spot in the lineup would come up again. And it isn't like Inge is elite anymore, either physically or mentally. I don't think Cabrera goes for the force in Tampa for example.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[Lbh24]

I think he learned his lesson in the playoffs. They may be in the lineup but I'm sure both will get plenty of DH days

Cabrera didn't slow down in the playoffs, with a .489 OBP and 8 XBH (4 doubles, 4 HR) in 11 games.

[Yoda]

Cabrera didn't slow down in the playoffs, with a .489 OBP and 8 XBH (4 doubles, 4 HR) in 11 games.

That'll teach Leyland to play him too much.

[baseball3]

Miguel Cabrera will not be playing 3B very long. This is a nice thought and makes everyone happy on paper before a game is played. With him at 3B and Delmon in LF, that's a defensive nightmare. One of the two of them will be DH'ing for most of the 162 game schedule. You've got to play one of them in the field and whoever is out there, the defense will be abismal, just a fact.

Leyland is a master at making adjustments, I am sure he'll find a way to keep everyone happy. That and WINNING goes a long way to create happiness!

Without a doubt, this will be very interesting.

I see Kelly/Dirks/Thomas getting plenty of opportunity with Inge being the man without a country for the most part

[Brian]

Without see him in spring training action and assuming he loses around 10 lbs. I'll say right around 130 games. He'll spell Fielder when he dh's or has a day off.

[Dino]

I think it'll be based on how he looks in Spring Training.

[chasfh]

We need Cabrera at third base only long enough to get Castellanos to the majors. Assuming that Castellanos follows his projected trajectory -- and really, that's the only thing that can be planned for -- I believe that's two years, tops. Then Cabrera can move out to the outfield (probably LF) for two years, then leave for greener pastures. By that time Victor will be lo-o-o-ong gone, and then the only consideration for Prince will be whether he still plays 1B or DHs.

Sure, this reads like a best case scenario, but I think it's probably their plan.

[Nastradamus]

Why would peralta at second with worth or something be better than Santiago at second and peralta at short?

I do hope worth gets Inge's roster spot tho and raburn is of only. Worth is plus at all 3if spots which we need