Miguel Cabrera to Play Thiird Base

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I think you're half right. I think that the Tigers had concerns over Cabby at third. They figured his defense was better at first. But I also think that they would have moved Cabby if it made the most sense for the team.

It's a double-switch, to use baseball terms. If (New replacement at 1st) - (Lost defense at third) > (Inge at third) + (Cabby at first), then you make the switch. The problem has been that while the Tigers may have considered the (Lost defense at third) to not be too huge of a number, the (New replacement at 1st) hasn't been a very high number either. You need a decent return at first in order to out weigh Cabby's defensive deficiencies at third.

You might say: "That's what I've said all along!

Yes, I would say this is what I said all along.

They were never going to move Cabrera to third until they signed Fielder!" Well, yeah... but what you've been implying is that the Tigers were not thinking Cabby was a viable option at third at all and are only doing it now to try and fit him in the field. I think the rest of us are arguing that the Tigers were think of moving Cabby to third (weren't there stories that Cabby was already working out and trying to lose weight even before Prince was signed?), but had to have a situation where it made sense.

I don't think I implied that at all. I think I have been pretty clear and consistent in my statements.

The only reason I even commented in the first place is there seems to be suggestions that Miguel moved from 3rd because Guillen sucked at 1B in 2008 and that the main reason he didn't move back to 3B is not because he wasn't an OK 3B, but because there wasn't an adequate opportunity to upgrade the team by moving him to 3B, or to minimize injury risk (I don't know where that idea comes from, to be frank).

Given the current roster construction, I think playing Miguel at 3B makes sense - so I am cool with it, but I think the above narrative is putting some lipstick on the pig as well. If Miguel were an average or slightly below average defensive 3B, it would have been relatively easy find a 1B who was good enough offensively relative to Inge to offset the loss of D between Inge and Cabrera and net the team extra wins. The Tigers didn't do that from 2008 - 2011, which strongly suggests (to me at least) that they didn't think Miguel would likely be able to provide near league average defense at 3B.

Which is fine - as has been commented several times, even being a poor defensive 3B still makes Miguel an extremely valuable 3B. I don't mean to suggest he is going to be a disaster, nor am I suggesting the Tigers have handled him poorly. I actually think they have handled it right.

I just disagree with the suggestion that Miguel moved off of 3B primarily in 2008 because Guillen wasn't a good 1B and never returned to play the position simply because of roster construction / lack of opportunity to move him back / because of injury concern. I think he moved off and stayed off primarily because the team viewed him to be a poor defensive 3B.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

That was my point. Even with Napoli being potentially available, or similar first base options, it wasn't likely to have been a net gain over the status quo at the time. Until there was a real opportunity to add a 4 win first baseman or better, there was little incentive to consider upsetting the apple cart, so to speak.

Yeah - we seem to be in near agreement WRT how we think the Tigers viewed moving Cabrera to 3B.

[Shelton]

Why so low? He had an 11.1% walk rate coming into last season.

The 9 in 2009 turning into an 8 in 2010.

[4hzglory]

If Miguel were an average or slightly below average defensive 3B, it would have been relatively easy find a 1B who was good enough offensively relative to Inge to offset the loss of D between Inge and Cabrera and net the team extra wins. The Tigers didn't do that from 2008 - 2011, which strongly suggests (to me at least) that they didn't think Miguel would likely be able to provide near league average defense at 3B.

This is where I disagree. In 2008-9 Inge was one of the best defensive 3b in the game and through the 1st 1/2 of 2010 was a reasonable bet to hit 20-25 HR's per game ( LOL Obviously I meant season). Plus you have the factor that he is a fan favorite. I believe they thought Inge could get back to being that player in 2011 which is why they resigned him for 2 years. Even if they felt Miggy was a slightly above average 3b (which I don't think they do) they weren't just going to make the move for a stop gap .800 OPS 1b, someone old/injury risk like Berkman, or a question mark at the time like Napoli. So I do believe roster construction and lack of a clear, significant upgrade impacted the decision to keep Cabrera at 1b. Miggy's extra weight probably cemented the decision.

Then last year they saw the need to get Miggy ready at 3b for Interleague/W.S. games and so he was preparing for it for this season. Victor gets hurt, fielder is available, Illitch has the $ and it is a no brainer to make the move as Fielder at 1b/Cabrera at 3b is a clear upgrade over the already once dfa'd, now average D at best Inge who's game is so poor, his fan favoritism isn't enough to keep him safe anymore.

[Shelton]

Biggs, I think there are multiple issues that you are compounding that are causing some, myself include, to interpret your feelings on this matter.

The Cabrera guillen thing is one issue. I think it's up for debate what the real reason was for the move. Neither looked adequate at the time. Both had looked adequate in the past. That was 2008. They went through all of spring training and started the year like that. Something weird happened. Part of me thinks it was an overreaction to the poor start the team had. Interestingly, I found an old article that mentioned leyland had planned to move guillen off of third and into the outfield in June of 2008, and move Inge to third base. Then Inge got hurt and when he came back they needed him to split time with pudge, and then take over full time after purge was traded.

Before the end of the season in 2008, leyland announced that Inge was going back to full time 3b and guillen was going to left. Inge was signed through 2010. He was an all star in 2009.

There was a pretty big reason the team didn't move Cabrera back later, and that reason is Brandon Inge, his contract, and his ability to play well immediately before his contract is up.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I honestly don't know how to make my position more clear.

I concede the argument. I was completely wrong.

[Shelton]

About which point? I'm still unclear on your position.

[JayVee7777]

An interesting article on Cabrera's transition:

Miguel Cabrera's athleticism, drive may make switch work | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

Billy Ripken, who played for the Tigers during a 12-year career that saw him defend at every infield position, agrees.

"He has soft hands and a very good throwing arm, and I think this is going to work out," he said. "The first thing about making this kind of move is what's between the ears. And from what I've learned, Miguel is ready."

In fact, during talks with Belliard last summer, Cabrera said he wanted to play at least 40 games at third in 2012.

As I've said, Cabrera wanted to go back to 3rd all along, so there's no reluctance there. And there are at least a few scouts/players who are optimistic about the change.

[John_Brian_K]

As I've said, Cabrera wanted to go back to 3rd all along, so there's no reluctance there. And there are at least a few scouts/players who are optimistic about the change.

I have said that all along myself.