Damon Wants to be a Detroit Tiger

[ballmich]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

We don't have any idea who they are bidding against, I mean who in their right mind thought Valvaerde would cost 7MM.

Plus you have to find a hapy meduim between what it will take to get him to signednd fiscal responsibility,the dererral allowed for some payroll relief..

Clearly they overpaid for Valverde. And I'm pretty sure I did find a happy medium between the club and Damon's desires, because there's no one else going to pay him that much or any more. Paying him more than I outlined is just bidding against yourself. And while you are right that no one knows who will enter the bidding and at how much, the clock is ticking and if they wre going to do it, they likely would have by now. Most clubs right now, for the contract that I outlined (1yr/$4 million or 2yr/$9 million) probably has to go to owership for approval to go over their alloted budget for the year. What team is rumored to have $4 million or more left to spend right now?

Originally Posted by sportz4life

the option has multiple ways to be crafted, but if Detroit is good and Damon plays well, you want the option of contract certainty for 2011..

Just because Detroit does good and Damon plays well in 2010, doesn't necessarily mean you want him back in 2011. Any number of developments could occur to make the club, or Damon want to part ways. And if the market bounces back, and he suddenly warrants and deserves more money and there is mutual desire to keep him around, there are other ways to do it (pay the buyout and negotiate a new contract at a higher salary). This is pretty much the least of my concerns.

[DaYooperASBDT]

I love seeing Boras get a dose of his own. Awesome.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by ballmich

Clearly they overpaid for Valverde.

Base upoon the deals Street, Lyon and Rodney received I thnk not..and we message board guys..no matter how shrewd and we're pretty shrewd.. never really know what the market is..or who is competing..

[ballmich]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

Base upoon the deals Street, Lyon and Rodney received I thnk not..and we message board guys..no matter how shrewd and we're pretty shrewd.. never really know what the market is..or who is competing..

How are Street (not even a FA), Lyon and Rodney representative of what the market was saying about Valverde? They didn't require the loss of a draft pick while Valverde did. Not to mention, Lyon and Rodney signed well over a month before Valverde did. The timing of contracts is significant in an environment where there is very limited dollars available to sign FA's. Waiting that 4-6 weeks probably cost Valverde a lot of money, and SHOULD have cost him even more had the Tigers really wanted to play hardball in my opinion.

I don't claim to be an insider and I do not have non-public information regarding what kind of contract offers Damon has, or what payroll limitations interested organizations may have. But it's clear that teams have spent the vast majority of their free payroll dollars. It's clear that we're two weeks and change from pitchers/catchers reporting. It's clear that market conditions have caused payrolls for pretty much every organization to contract. It's clear that the Yankees filled their void already. And it's clear that there are a ton of veteran players still without jobs. And it's clear that over the last two years several productive veterans have been forced to retire because teams won't pay them what they feel they deserve. I don't have to be a insider to read these factors and come to some conclusions about what a ballpark Damon contract should be.

Damon's last great hope was Oakland, and when they went all-in on Sheets, he was left standing roadside.

[Casimir]

Originally Posted by keystone

I'd rather have Felipe Lopez than Kennedy. Switch hitting lead off man who can play 2b/ss/3b.

I wouldn't mind signing Lopez for the bench, but I don't think I want him hitting that high in the lineup.

[djhutch]

I'd rather sign Adam Kennedy, but if it's a one year deal for Damon then okay. I don't see Boras letting Damon sign in Detroit for 1 year, after turning down a 1 year deal with the Skankees.

[MissouriKaline6]

Originally Posted by Shelton

New Hampshire can't be beat.

I would love to see them sign Damon. Five competent players for four positions is a good thing. There will be injuries and slumps. I'm not worried about finding everyone a place to play.

Portsmouth is a neat town, if you are from the midwest, and want to see a actual colonial looking community..

[JonBenke]

Originally Posted by djhutch

I don't see Boras letting Damon sign in Detroit for 1 year, after turning down a 1 year deal with the Skankees.

But that one year offer is no longer there, so he's got to sign where he can... I can't see that many multi-year deals out there.

People sign one-year deals all the time, and at his age, Damon should be happy to get just that, on a good team.

[IdahoBert]

Dave Dombrowski, Jim Leyland on Johnny Damon's interest in signing with the Detroit Tigers | Detroit Tigers - - MLive.com

Article posted on mlive just a few minutes ago has Dave not saying no categorically to Damon and being more open than he appeared to be previously.

“It’s a situation for us where we have not discussed free agent players in public,” Tigers general manager Dave Dombrowski told Booth Newspapers today. “And I don’t see any benefit in doing that in this situation.”

Dombrowski said recently at TigerFest that he is not looking to make any adjustments to the pitching staff, and that any changes would be made for offensive reasons. He said today that his thinking remains the same in that area.

“We keep an open mind,” Dombrowski said. “We keep our mind open to every way we can improve our club.”

He was asked if he was more inclined to wait until assessing players such as rookie center fielder Austin Jackson in Grapefruit League games or to make a move at any time.

“If it’s right,” Dombrowski said, “we would do it any time.”

[ToledoTigerFan]

And this from the Detroit News....... Note: Bolding mine.

Dombrowski: Tigers 'not close' to signing Johnny Damon

TOM GAGE
The Detroit News

Detroit -- Not so fast.

He'd like to come here, but the Tigers say they are not on the verge of signing free agent Johnny Damon.

In response to questions about Damon, general manager Dave Dombrowski has said twice in the last two days, including to The Detroit News on Tuesday morning, "We're not close to making any kind of deals at this point."

That means signings. That also means trades.

It's also true that Damon's agent, Scott Boras, and Dombrowski have not yet discussed the 36-year-old outfielder's interest in the Tigers.

Therefore, it remains unclear what kind of contract Damon would want if he came to Detroit -- but this could be an indication: Speaking last Friday on WFAN in New York, Damon was asked if he believes two years at $11 million each is a contract still be available to him outside of New York. Damon replied, "I think, if creativity is involved."

Keep in mind that Damon, who would become the oldest Tiger if he signs with Detroit, made $13 million each of the last four years with the Yankees and hasn't made less than $7 million in a season since 2000, his last year at Kansas City.

Damon clearly doesn't need to be in double-digit millions per year. He's made more than $97 million as a major-leaguer. But with his level of play still high, neither is he looking to become a team's one-year bargain.

The case between him and the Tigers isn't closed, though.

"In our situation," Dombrowski said, "you keep an open mind."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© Copyright 2010 The Detroit News. All rights reserved.
www.detnews.com | Printer-friendly article page

[tigersrok]

There seems to be no interest in Johnny Damon. Boras has overplayed his hand.

If the Tigers can get Damon for one year (at $6 million or less), it might not be a bad idea to sign him. He would give them a lead off hitter and a LH bat. But there is no way they should give a multi-year deal to a 36-year-old player. They do not need to repeat the same mistakes of the past.

[Scottwood]

Originally Posted by ballmich

Clearly they overpaid for Valverde.

Not to toot my own horn, but in my first post in the "Tigers in on Valverde" thread, I called what his salary was going to be. He got fair market value for what a closer gets these days.

[CapitalTigers]

I have absolutely no problem signing Damon for 1 year, with a club option for 2nd year. I don't see the harm in having a proven hitter , from the left side, in the line-up. Even if he's a 3/4 time outfielder, it's not my pocket book.

[CapitalTigers]

Originally Posted by Scottwood

Not to toot my own horn, but in my first post in the "Tigers in on Valverde" thread, I called what his salary was going to be. He got fair market value for what a closer gets these days.

He definitely got fair market value. He's > Rodney + $2 mm.

[Eric Cioe]

Originally Posted by Scottwood

Not to toot my own horn, but in my first post in the "Tigers in on Valverde" thread, I called what his salary was going to be. He got fair market value for what a closer gets these days.

Fangraphs' WAR undervalues relievers. It'd be one thing if a few guys were getting overpaid, but every organization "overpays" by their standards for a reliever.

That and the sort of plug 'n chug WAR / salary evaluation they (Dave Cameron) do on everything now have taken that wonderful site down a notch for me. Then that new guy came in and did a great series on sinker/slider pitchers in the minors and why they have to be projected in a different manner, and my faith was restored.

[Scottwood]

Originally Posted by Eric Cioe

Fangraphs' WAR undervalues relievers. It'd be one thing if a few guys were getting overpaid, but every organization "overpays" by their standards for a reliever.

I completely agree, and that is a growing sentiment in the sabermetric community by many a people. I think you will see FanGraphs make some adjustments to their reliever calculations in the future.

This writer (Jeremy Greenhouse) wonders if going to WPA/LI makes more sense for WAR.

More on WAR

Greenhouses' articles at the The Baseball Analysts are great.

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/touching_bases/

[PattyMac]

if they sign damon for 7 mil and deal grandy....

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by PattyMac

if they sign damon for 7 mil and deal grandy....

They will have acquired a boatload of good young players and replaced the offense..

[Oblong]

I'm actually kind of hoping they sign him now...... at first I thought no way but I'm coming around.

My mom is 80 years old on Thursday and she's always loved Damon, going back to his KC days. She doesn't follow baseball that closely to know all the guys on other teams but she does watch the Tigers every day and she has always had a thing for Damon. She just says "I like the way he plays." Sometimes that's all you need. So sign him up, make mom happy.

[Sidney_N_OK]

I didn't read through the first two pages so if this has been said I apologize.

Does this Damon scenario sound EXACTLY like the Pudge scenario a couple years ago?

Inflating support when there is none...I have to give it up to Boras, he always seems to increase the market for his clients...but sometimes he fails...

[Oblong]

Yeah his method is the same but the difference is the Tigers came within one win of winning the division instead of one loss of tying the record for most losses in MLB history.

[Titus Tiger]

Originally Posted by Oblong

I'm actually kind of hoping they sign him now...... at first I thought no way but I'm coming around.

My mom is 80 years old on Thursday and she's always loved Damon, going back to his KC days. She doesn't follow baseball that closely to know all the guys on other teams but she does watch the Tigers every day and she has always had a thing for Damon. She just says "I like the way he plays." Sometimes that's all you need. So sign him up, make mom happy.

just asking --- which side does your mom hit from?

[Titus Tiger]

I ran some numbers on this possible deal

1) Johnny Damon kind of looks like Jesus
2) Johnny Damon said the Tigers Need a Savior
3) Johnny Damon said he could be that Savior

4) 'Damon' and 'Jesus' have the same number of letters

5) when Jesus tells you you need a savior, go with Johnny Damon



ink the deal --- might want to have him sign in blood

[thefunk]

not really sure blasphemy is going to help us out this year.

I'd much rather go the Angels in The Outfield route...

Let's sign this guy

[djhutch]

I swear the Free Press reads this board & then prints the ideas. My bookmark for this site takes me to the home page with articles linked for the major sports. The first one on the Tigers' side today says something like "Is Boras reaching out to Mr. I?" It's attributed to Free Press Staff. If they're hiring, I'd be happy to just sit here & read the board all day & pull articles out of my ear.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by djhutch

I'd rather sign Adam Kennedy, but if it's a one year deal for Damon then okay. I don't see Boras letting Damon sign in Detroit for 1 year, after turning down a 1 year deal with the Skankees.

I would agree, then again Boras may not have any choice. Damon may have already tuned down his only multi year offer. No doubt he could help - but it has to work for the Tigers and a one year (Maybe team option/defered) modest salary (ala Vlad or Abreau last year, etc.) might be the best way to go. If Johnny D. gets a decent two year offer from someone else then he should take it.

[Microline133]

Don't be shocked if that decent two-year offer is from the Tigers.......

[CapitalTigers]

Originally Posted by Microline133

Don't be shocked if that decent two-year offer is from the Tigers.......

Completely agree. I think it's a matter of WHEN not IF the Tiger's sign Damon. He fits the Leyland/ Dombrowski mold. Get er done, Dave.

[84 Lives!!!]

Originally Posted by Microline133

Don't be shocked if that decent two-year offer is from the Tigers.......

That's a compelling hint...!!!

I guess it's time to be prepared for Looks Like Jesus, Throws Like Mary playing LF for us this year and next...

[itsallgood8989]

I'm ok with this.... I would prefer 1 year, but I understand the dynamics. It will be important to keep Clete thomas on the roster for flexibility abd defensive replacement purpose because we have a number of OF that can only play 1 position if we sign Damon.

Damon, Guillen, Raburn, Thomas = LF
AJ, Thomas = CF
Ordonez, Thomas = RF

IMO, we can't expect Raburn to play CF or RF unless it is an emergency situation.

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by djhutch

I swear the Free Press reads this board & then prints the ideas. My bookmark for this site takes me to the home page with articles linked for the major sports. The first one on the Tigers' side today says something like "Is Boras reaching out to Mr. I?" It's attributed to Free Press Staff. If they're hiring, I'd be happy to just sit here & read the board all day & pull articles out of my ear.

Once in a while John Lowe writes a good article. Other that that, the Free Press just copies stuff from Fox or Yahoo or elsewhere. There has been little original coverage of the Tigers there since Morosi left.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by tiger337

Once in a while John Lowe writes a good article. Other that that, the Free Press just copies stuff from Fox or Yahoo or elsewhere. There has been little original coverage of the Tigers there since Morosi left.

Morosi is still the Free Press best source of Tiger inside info..without a Free press paycheck..

[Oblong]

yeah but Lowe has The Hat....

[Nolan]

Originally Posted by Oblong

I'm actually kind of hoping they sign him now...... at first I thought no way but I'm coming around.

My mom is 80 years old on Thursday and she's always loved Damon, going back to his KC days. She doesn't follow baseball that closely to know all the guys on other teams but she does watch the Tigers every day and she has always had a thing for Damon. She just says "I like the way he plays." Sometimes that's all you need. So sign him up, make mom happy.

+1

I always thought it was a good idea to sign him, but I think it will definitely excite the fanbase quite a bit. People know Damon more than they know Valverde. He'll sell a few tickets for sure.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

IMO, we can't expect Raburn to play CF or RF unless it is an emergency situation.

Not a big deal, but why do you claim Raburn cannot play RF?

[tiger337]

Lowe is still a good writer. They just don't seem to have him write very much anymore.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Man, I wish the Tigers could get Damon on a one year deal, with either a mutual option for year two, or a vesting clause at the least. Otherwise I say give Raburn the full time job that he earned last season.

Raburn would be a plus RF with that cannon arm he has, but I never want to see him with an infield glove ever again.

[ballmich]

Originally Posted by Scottwood

Not to toot my own horn, but in my first post in the "Tigers in on Valverde" thread, I called what his salary was going to be. He got fair market value for what a closer gets these days.

There's a difference between calling what his salary will be and paying Valverde a fair value.

If he got fair value, then there should have been several similar offers on the table. That's what tells you it's what the market says is fair. And while none of us knows what offers were on the table for Valverde, I believe it's a reasonable assumption that Detroit's offer easily exceeded the others, which means we over paid. If you believe he had other similar offers, I'd like to know who and what you think they were offering?

[ballmich]

Originally Posted by CapitalTigers

He definitely got fair market value. He's > Rodney + $2 mm.

That's not true in the least. Talk about over simplification.

First, you've omitted the loss of the 1st round draft pick attached to Valverde.

Second, you've omitted the fact that Rodney signed about a month before Valverde, which is a significant factor given that most free payroll dollars dried up during that period.

Market value is determined by what the market will bear, not by what others received. If you exclude the Tiger's offer to Valverde, what was the next best offer? Something between that offer and the Tiger's offer was what his market value was on the date he was signed. His value may have been higher (and probably was) earlier in the offseason. But either by his or his agent's decision, they turned down arbitration and waited... probably to his detriment.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by ballmich

There's a difference between calling what his salary will be and paying Valverde a fair value.

If he got fair value, then there should have been several similar offers on the table. That's what tells you it's what the market says is fair. And while none of us knows what offers were on the table for Valverde, I believe it's a reasonable assumption that Detroit's offer easily exceeded the others, which means we over paid. If you believe he had other similar offers, I'd like to know who and what you think they were offering?

Huh?? bmich..you cant say we don't know and we do know, in the same sentence..

One is fact, one is opinion..