Is this the worst period for major sports in Michigan in decades?

[Vonlenska]

It's kind of weird to think about it, because usually Michigan has had at least one great team, sometimes two, a few times more.

But now? There's nothing. Counting the big 4, the state of Michigan, at this present time, has TWO (really one) relevant, good teams: MSU and (somewhat) UM basketball. What's happened to the teams in this town?

Red Wings: Traditional winners. As close to a dynasty as possible. Haven't missed the playoffs in 20+ seasons. Bill Clinton was in office the last time they didn't win the division.

Now? 11-13. 4th central. Sure, decimated by injuries, but not a good team right now.

Pistons: What team had a better run of success in the East than Detroit did from 2001-07? All those conference finals, a Championship, a quarter from a repeat...they were perennially competitive.

Now? 5-11. LAST Central. A team that's going nowhere right now, even if Hamilton and Prince are out with injuries. They sure didn't help last year.

UM Football: Do I really need to type? Winningest team in NCAAF history. 30+ straight bowl seasons. Loads of tradition and success.

Now? back to back losing seasons for a new coach with a new system. RR is 8-16 in two seasons in Ann Arbor. He has likely one more season to turn this around, and if not, Michigan could be in trouble for a long, long time.

Tigers: Really not counting towards this list, but it is fair to include them. WS appearance in 06, three winning seasons since (and including) 2006.

Now? Blown division leads, big leads, twice under Leyland. Have been Detroit's Heartbreakers ever since Mags' HR to win the pennant.

Lions: Remember when this team was somewhat good? I don't, all I know is that it was more than 10 years ago and they are possibly the worst franchise in pro sports in this decade.

Now? 2-9. A shocking THREE out of the past 15 seasons have been winning seasons.

Since 2000: 33-106.

Nothing has changed, really. Still devoid of talent on the field, pretty much completely, at nearly every possible position. Stafford has shown some brilliance, and has endeared himself to many of us, but he's still too inconsistent to expect any kind of week to week success from.

What happened to sports in Michigan? Is this just a down trend? Were we just spoiled years ago with the Wings, Pistons, Tigers, MSU basketball and Michigan football being good?

What franchise out of these do you guys seeing coming back? Which ones do you think are going to be on their current path for awhile?

Sorry for this terrible and probably meaningless post, but it's something that's been on my mind lately.

[slim pickens]

Tigers: Really not counting towards this list, but it is fair to include them. WS appearance in 05, three winning seasons since 2005.

Hmmmmmm.........

[Duane B. Sims]

I didn't think your post was meaningless or terrible. In fact I was thinking the same thing the other day. It's been awhile since Michigan hasn't had one really good pro sports team.

But it's probably been the 70s since it's been this bad. Which is actually good, because it really isn't "bad" now. It's just not as good as it once was.

Anyone who remembers the era of the "Dead Wings," free Pistons tickets stacked up on the gas station counter for anyone to take, and Gary Sutherland batting high in the order knows what we're going through now is heaven, comparatively speaking.

[wingnut736]

Where was I when we were in the World Series in 05? Dang it, I missed it. Did we win???

[wingnut736]

Come playoff time, everyone will be pumped about the Wings again, by the way (and yes, they will make the playoffs).

The Pistons and Lions, however, will not.

[Vonlenska]

Oh shush, I meant 06.

[cruzer1]

I think its a great period, and always do. Sports brings nothing but joy to my life. There's no use in complaining about things you can't control. Just watch, and enjoy. If they're not winning, enjoy watching the teams build up toward a championship contender. I don't like the fall down, and I don't see that happening here. There's plenty of young talent in this city right now to enjoy.

[Oblong]

I remember being down in late 1988. The Pistons lost to the Miami Heat, an expansion team. The Cavaliers were doing better. The Wings just had the Goose Loonies incident and were not getting off to a good start. The Lions just fired Rogers. The Tigers were on the way down. I even called The Sunday Sports Albom, on WLLZ, to talk about it with Mike Stone and The Little Fella.

[MackAveKurt]

Well it's sure not a very enjoyable period. Throw in Michigan State's loss last night and BLECH!

I want my Pistons back. I miss Chauncey. I don't care if he was getting old.

[sportz4life]

It's a mess, but nothing compared to the futility of the 80's and 70's. Some of you guys are too young to remember but the Pistons, Wings and Tigers were pathtic year after year, I mean Lions pathetic.

[belcherboy]

It's a mess, but nothing compared to the futility of the 80's and 70's. Some of you guys are too young to remember but the Pistons, Wings and Tigers were pathtic year after year, I mean Lions pathetic.

I don't remember the 80's being that bad, but I was pretty young. The Lions were really close to the Superbowl in the early 80's, weren't they? The Tigers were WS champs in '84, VERY competitive in '85, and made an INCREDIBLE comeback in '87 to make the playoffs. The Pistons mid to late 80's runs were FANTASTIC, with a championship in '89. Michigan football was solid, and the men's basketball team won a championship in '89. The Red Wings were down, but overall, the 80's were a good time to be a Michigan sports fan, if I recall correctly! (I was a kid so maybe I was a bit jaded)

[LJK004]

If this is bad, I can live with this. State should make quite a run this year, the Wings should be back in a month or so after some of the injuries heal up, the Lions, well they always suck, so no change there, the Pistons just got done with an exceptional run, and the Tigers were two outs away from a playoff appearance. Michigan football, is down, and the light at the end of the tunnel is pretty dim. At the end of the day we may not be living up to our nickname of "The City of Champions," but I can live with this.

[tiger paw paw]

Can we back off on the drama? We had teams who played for a Stanley Cup, A NCAA Championship, A Baseball Divisional Championship, and made the NBA playoffs, all in the last 12 months.

Right now the Pistons and Wings are both banged up. Michigan football is slowly coming to the realization it is time to right the ship. But I hardly think that this is the apocalypse.

I think that we are in the start of a slide, but no where near the bottom...

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I don't remember the 80's being that bad, but I was pretty young. The Lions were really close to the Superbowl in the early 80's, weren't they? The Tigers were WS champs in '84, VERY competitive in '85, and made an INCREDIBLE comeback in '87 to make the playoffs. The Pistons mid to late 80's runs were FANTASTIC, with a championship in '89. Michigan football was solid, and the men's basketball team won a championship in '89. The Red Wings were down, but overall, the 80's were a good time to be a Michigan sports fan, if I recall correctly! (I was a kid so maybe I was a bit jaded)

The Lions have really only been really close to the Super Bowl in the 1991-1992, when they went 12-4 and made the NFC Championship game.

They opened and closed the season being absolutely crushed by the best team in football that year, the Washington Redskins. So I don't know how close the Lions truthfully were to the Super Bowl - on one hand they were only 60 minutes away, but...on the other hand within 5 minutes or 10 minutes it was clear they were a level or two below the Redskins.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I don't remember the 80's being that bad, but I was pretty young. The Lions were really close to the Superbowl in the early 80's, weren't they? The Tigers were WS champs in '84, VERY competitive in '85, and made an INCREDIBLE comeback in '87 to make the playoffs. The Pistons mid to late 80's runs were FANTASTIC, with a championship in '89. Michigan football was solid, and the men's basketball team won a championship in '89. The Red Wings were down, but overall, the 80's were a good time to be a Michigan sports fan, if I recall correctly! (I was a kid so maybe I was a bit jaded)

The Pistons were bad the first half of the decade. The Red Wings were the laughingstock of the league for 10 years entering the back half of the 80's - similar to the Lions now. The Tigers took a little bit of time to get good, and from '83 - '87 they were absolutely rock solid. The Lions weren't good by and large. They did have a few good years in the early 80's, but those teams were worse than the best Lions teams of the 90's. The Darryl Rogers era was also quite bad.

I don't know if any one year had all pro teams stinking up the joint ('89 would have been a great candidate, if not for the Pistons), but the decade of the 80's on the whole was probably worse than the last '00 decade, and that is with the Lions being historically horrible the whole of this decade and the Tigers being likewise for most of the first half of the decade. The Pistons were quite good much of the '00 decade, and the Red Wings were the elite team in hockey over the entire decade without a down year (unless '09 proves to be a stinker).

[RedRamage]

Thank goodness for the GVSU lakers!

[Antrat]

My bowling team is pretty good.

[sabretooth]

The 1970's seem to have been a lost decade, except for U-M football and the MSU hoops title, the four pro sports teams could be entertaining but none were ever serious contenders for a championship, at least not to my recollection. After the 68 Tigers disbanded in the early 70's, the Tigers were a lost team; the Pistons had Bing and Lanier, but were not serious contenders; the Lions were OK at best, and the Red Wings began their post-Howe slide to oblivion.

The 1980's started off where the 70's left off, horribly for pro sports, but overall wound up being a super decade for sports in Michigan.

- Lions: playoff-competitive from 1980 - 1983, horrible after that
- Tigers: playoff-competitive team from 1982 through 1988, championship
- Pistons: playoff-competitive team from 1984 through end of decade, two champs, always entertaining with Isaiah
- Red Wings: playoff-competitive team in 1987 and beyond, very entertaining
- U-M Football: with the exception of the mid-decade swoon, a very good team
- U-M Basketball: mixed bag but entertaining for the most part, won fluke championship in 89
- MSU: football OK, basketball not so good

The 1990's had the horrifying Randy Smith Tigers and the post-Isaiah Pistons, but otherwise had very entertaining Lions teams and a super Red Wings team, and U-M and MSU football/basketball were really good too.

The 2000's have been great overall except for the Lions.

As of 2010, the Red Wings and MSU basketball are still class acts, but the rest of sportsdom in Michigan is going to struggle. If U-M football or basketball does not rebound into relevancy again, I think we're going to be looking to the Red Wings and MSU for our championship representation for the next 3-5 years. Maybe the Tigers or Pistons might surprise, but I doubt it.

[Oblong]

1990's Pistons? Horses heads and teal. All I got to say!

[atomicrod]

It's a mess, but nothing compared to the futility of the 80's and 70's. Some of you guys are too young to remember but the Pistons, Wings and Tigers were pathtic year after year, I mean Lions pathetic.

I remember the late 70's well. The Red Wings could not make the playoffs when 4 of the 5 teams in the Norris went. The Lions were 2-14 with Jeff Komlo at quarterback. The Pistons were a mess after shipping Bob Lanier off to the Bucks and the Tigers had not posted anything better than a 5th place finish in years.

Things are much better now.

[PuNk42AE]

1990's Pistons? Horses heads and teal. All I got to say!

And somehow that was my first Pistons Hat

[belcherboy]

The 1980's started off where the 70's left off, horribly for pro sports, but overall wound up being a super decade for sports in Michigan.

- Lions: playoff-competitive from 1980 - 1983, horrible after that
- Tigers: playoff-competitive team from 1982 through 1988, championship
- Pistons: playoff-competitive team from 1984 through end of decade, two champs, always entertaining with Isaiah
- Red Wings: playoff-competitive team in 1987 and beyond, very entertaining
- U-M Football: with the exception of the mid-decade swoon, a very good team
- U-M Basketball: mixed bag but entertaining for the most part, won fluke championship in 89
- MSU: football OK, basketball not so good

Yeah that is the way I felt about the 80's!

[DTroppens]

When I was a kid and just starting to follow Detroit sports in the mid to late 1970s, none of the teams were very good. You could qualify that era through 1980 probably. 1981 the Tigers almost won the second half of the strike-shortened pennant. As fluky as that is, that's too close to consider it a wash for all four teams. But then, I could probably say the same thing about the 1980 Lions.

I'd say the last thing anything close to this was 1979. But we're saying all this just months after the Tigers played a 163rd game to make the playoffs. I'm not really sure if this season qualifies as that horrible because at least they whiffed the postseason. This year is probably pretty equal to 1980 then. Three bad teams and one good one that had a possible postseason run. I know one of those 1980 seasons was the 16-win season for the Pistons. I think the Wings had 40 points in one of those two years that overlapped 1980. Even if it wasn't the 1980-81 season, that team couldn't have been that good, since it was my Hockey Night In Canada era of my life. The Tigers were just a bit above .500.

I'd say 1980

[Rob from Canton]

Lions: Remember when this team was somewhat good? I don't, all I know is that it was more than 10 years ago and they are possibly the worst franchise in pro sports in this decade.

Now? 2-9. A shocking THREE out of the past 15 seasons have been winning seasons.

Since 2000: 33-106.

No - the Lions have ALWAYS sucked, they just took it to a new level over the past 139 games.

Lions have never been good, they just had Barry Sanders to hypnotize fans into thinking they were an occasional playoff contender only to get slaughter by the likes of the Eagles and Redskins...

Longing for the days of the Wayne Fontes lead Detroit Lions tells you Detroit fans are the biggest suckers in all of professional sports and yes, sadly I am one of them.

[ToledoTigerFan]

At least Wayne Fontes' teams ran an interesting offense. They were fun to watch.

[Motor City Sonics]

We've been very spoiled around here. Imagine being a Cleveland fan and not having a championship in any sport since 1964.


1984 - Tigers World Champs
1987 - Tigers make playoffs (not easy to do back then)
1988 - Pistons lose in finals
1989 - Pistons win NBA Championship
1989 - U of M wins NCAA basketball title
1990 - Pistons win NBA Championship
1992 - U of M takes five freshman to the title BBall game
1993 - U of M goes back to the title game (at the time we didn't know about Ed Martin)
1995 - Wings go to the Stanley Cup Finals
1996 - Michigan wins NCAA Hockey Championship
1997 - Wings win the Stanley Cup
1997 - U of M football splits the national title
1998 - Michigan wins NCAA Hockey Championship
1998 - Wings win the Stanley Cup
1999 - Michigan State basketball goes to final four
2000 - Michigan State wins the NCCA Basketball title
2001 - Michigan State basketball goes to the final four
2002 - Wings win the Stanley Cup
2004 - Pistons win the NBA Championship
2005 - Pistons lose in NBA finals
2005 - Michigan State basketball goes to the final four
2006 - Tigers go to the World Series
2007 - Michigan State wins NCAA Hockey Championship
2008 - Red Wings win the Stanley Cup
2009 - Michigan State goes the NCAA title game in their home state
2009 - Red Wings lose in Stanley Cup finals.



I ain't complainin'

[JohnFuller]

No - the Lions have ALWAYS sucked, they just took it to a new level over the past 139 games.

Lions have never been good, they just had Barry Sanders to hypnotize fans into thinking they were an occasional playoff contender only to get slaughter by the likes of the Eagles and Redskins...

The Lions in the NFC Championship got beat up by one of the most potent offenses in the history of the NFL - the Redskins led by Mark Rypien. The defense was led by Darrell Green and was very tough to score on. They won seven games in the regular season by 20 points or more and four times scored over 40 points. The most dominant aspect was their offensive line, though. Their QBs were only sacked nine times the entire season.

No one was close to them in the playoffs, including the Lions in the NFC Championship, but I wouldn't discount the season the Lions put together that year. The Lions were most likely the second or third best team in the NFL that year.

The Lions were 12-4 that year, including a win over Buffalo (which was beat up by the Skins in the Super Bowl). I wouldn't say that team sucked or that they hypnotized anyone.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Lions: Remember when this team was somewhat good? I don't, all I know is that it was more than 10 years ago...

No - the Lions have ALWAYS sucked, they just took it to a new level over the past 139 games.

Lions have never been good, they just had Barry Sanders to hypnotize fans into thinking they were an occasional playoff contender only to get slaughter by the likes of the Eagles and Redskins...

Vonleska claimed the Lions were 'somewhat good'. Now I will grant 'somewhat good' is a subjective term, but I think that is a reasonable label to apply to the Lions in the 90's.

IIRC, there were above 0.500 for the decade and made the play-offs multiple times. The fact that they got rolled in the play-offs does not mean they weren't 'somewhat good' in my mind. Nor does it, in my mind, mean they sucked. Sucking, to me, means going something like 6-10 or worse.

[Oblong]

seems to me like they had their big year, the 12-4 season, in which everybody knew they'd get smoked by the Redskins. Then they got the tougher schedule the following year.... had a bad year. Then they got the easier schedule, made the playoffs. Then got the tougher schedule... had a bad year. Then they got the easier schedule, made the playoffs.... yada yada yada. I don't remember them ever being serious super bowl contenders but they did set the expectations that they should be a playoff team every year. That's just my recollection of it. I don't care enough to look it up.

But I don't think this is the worst time at all. The Tigers are competitive. The Wings, while not the best right now, are making November hockey relevant and exciting. Same thing with the Pistons in a way. I've watched more basketball and hockey this month than I have in a long time simply because I want to see how certain players and the team is developing. Last few years it was a "Yeah, see you in April" mentality.

[Rob from Canton]

The Lions in the NFC Championship got beat up by one of the most potent offenses in the history of the NFL - the Redskins led by Mark Rypien. The defense was led by Darrell Green and was very tough to score on. They won seven games in the regular season by 20 points or more and four times scored over 40 points. The most dominant aspect was their offensive line, though. Their QBs were only sacked nine times the entire season.

No one was close to them in the playoffs, including the Lions in the NFC Championship, but I wouldn't discount the season the Lions put together that year. The Lions were most likely the second or third best team in the NFL that year.

The Lions were 12-4 that year, including a win over Buffalo (which was beat up by the Skins in the Super Bowl). I wouldn't say that team sucked or that they hypnotized anyone.

Ok Ill give you your one year but even in that one year did you really think they had a shot against Washington before they played that game?

If you knew they had no shot of beating Washington then were they really a contender?

At least Wayne Fontes' teams ran an interesting offense. They were fun to watch.

I agree with you 75%. The run and shoot was fun to watch until Wayne decided after the Washington blowout that the Lions "scored too fast" and we needed a power running game to control the clock. Im just saying a Lions fan is in really bad shape to long for the days of a Wayne Fontes lead team. Who knows, had the Lions not lost Utley and Andolsek maybe Fontes would still be here

Wayne Fontes is the winningest coach on Detroit Lions history with a record of 67-71. I mean, seriously?

[JohnFuller]

Ok Ill give you your one year but even in that one year did you really think they had a shot against Washington before they played that game?

If you knew they had no shot of beating Washington then were they really a contender?

You said they always sucked and fans were hypnotized by Barry Sanders. You said nothing about them having a shot against Washington... but guess what, no one believed any team had a shot against Washington that year. That Eagles game was disappointing - I remember it vividly.

But remember, they slaughtered a very good Dallas team in the second round of the playoffs before getting to Washington.

While I understand your frustration, saying they've always sucked and have never been good is just ridiculous. They were really a quarterback away, but freak tragedies to young star talent like Utley and Andolsek also set the team back.

"Lions have never been good, they just had Barry Sanders to hypnotize fans into thinking they were an occasional playoff contender only to get slaughter by the likes of the Eagles and Redskins..."

[oldglory1999]

Well...to be honest for me, i'm not a big hockey or basketball fan..with exception of the postseason. Lions (haha) oh sorry did I say that. I'm a patriots fan! The tigs...with the exception of 2008, their getting better...the problem is, they didn't "play" like they wanted to the division and/or the postseason.

The tiebreaker for me was a shock too, only because i thought the twins would take them out.

Tigs are on the right track, they just need that "little" something that they had in 2006 to make everything come together.

All I know is that they trade cabrera, grandy or jackson...they better be able to back it up or your going to have a lot of pissed off fans on your hands!

[sagnam]

Come playoff time, everyone will be pumped about the Wings again, by the way (and yes, they will make the playoffs).

The Wings are terrible and it's only going to get worse.

[lordstanley]

The Tigers and Wings are both still "relevant". Wings are just 25 games removed from being a win away from the Stanley Cup. The Tigers tied for division after being predicted by many to win in the 70s, who is to say they won't do that again or better even if the players get shuffled in and out this offseason. The Pistons have only been down for a year or so. Michigan football has only been down for 2 years. So for both of those teams good times are still a recent memory.

As others have written, late '70s was definitely a worse period. Which doesn't on its own make the answer to the thread title question "no", as that was 3 decades ago even though I remember it clearly. As of September 1980:

- The Wings had made the playoffs only once in 10 years, even when 3/4 of the league made it each year, were probably the NHL's worst franchise in the '70s.

- The Lions hadn't made the playoffs in 10 years, only one playoff appearance in 23 years, were coming off a 2-14 season.

- The Tigers hadn't made the playoffs since '72, hadn't really contended since.

- The Pistons were coming off a 16-66 season. They had a string of playoff appearance in the mid-70s but the only playoff series victory then was in a year in which they were 10 games below .500 in the regular season.

I was born in June 1967. So from my 6th birthday to my 13th birthday, things were pretty bleak for Detroit sports fans. Given that, it's really amazing so many of us from that era remained Detroit sports fans into adulthood.

[Vonlenska]

Great posts guys, but keep in mind -- the thread title isn't a statement, it's a question.

[lordstanley]

Great posts guys, but keep in mind -- the thread title isn't a statement, it's a question.

Totally understood, and it's a fair question, especially if you include U-M in the mix. If just looking at the 4 pro teams, I think there are have been other times even in the past 25 years that have been no better.

[Rob from Canton]

Personally I really like where the Tigers area headed. Sure their payroll is an issue this season but moving beyond 2010 its not.

A core of Verlander, Porcello, Cabrera, Jackson and Granderson along with several intriguing pitching prospects.

More than one of those pitching prospects project to be a top of the rotation starter, some sooner than others.

The "shopping" of Jackson and Granderson would net even more high level prospects that are close to major league ready plus other prospects.

The key to the whole equation is the front office and scouting department making sure they hit on the prospects if Jackson and/or Granderson are traded. Even if those prospects never play for Detroit they have to be though of well enough for maximum trade value to other teams. Many may not like Dombrowskis contract extensions (understandably) but his draft decisions and most trades are a lot better than in Tiger past.

Look at the core as it stands.

Cabrera - one of the best young hitters in the game
Verlander - one of the best starting pitchers in the game
Porcello - great future if he stays healthy
Granderson - solid young player who appears to have a work ethic

What I feel we need to happen is a couple of the young outfield prospects to turn into everyday major leaguers opposed to AAAA or 4th OF guys and a SS to finally emerge as an everyday player.

[sabretooth]

The direct simple answer to your question is no, it's not the worst period, but there's a pretty decent chance that it could become the worst period, especially for pro sports, if the Tigers fail to rebound and the Red Wings flatten out for some reason.

I think as long as Mike Illitch is alive and has his money the Red Wings will be refashioned to be competitive. I do worry about the Tigers becoming second-division fodder. A lot rides on a small number of players and prospects at this point for 2011 and beyond, which is the only reason I can see for DD possibly doubling-down by trading his best players.

[belcherboy]

I think as long as Mike Illitch is alive and has his money the Red Wings will be refashioned to be competitive. I do worry about the Tigers becoming second-division fodder. A lot rides on a small number of players and prospects at this point for 2011 and beyond, which is the only reason I can see for DD possibly doubling-down by trading his best players.

I think the economy will help his Detroit sport franchises, more than hurt them, as long as Illitch is running the show. With less money to spend nationally, this recession should bring payrolls down, and seems to already be working that way. Illitch is pretty dedicated, and still has plenty of money to spend on his teams. If DD comes to Illitch with a good idea, I think Big Mike is still willing to write the check, although I think he will be a little more hesitant now. Overall Illitch wants a champion, and if he can be convinced that he will get one, he'll spend the money. At least he has in the past.

[Dirk Diggler]

Great posts guys, but keep in mind -- the thread title isn't a statement, it's a question.

The answer to your question . "Is this the worst period for major sports in Michigan in decades?" NO.