Edwin to be l-o-o-n-g gone?

[tigersrok]

Originally Posted by Sports_Freak

I couldn't disagree more. He took over a team that hadn't competed for years and made them contenders. Yes, he's had the money to work with and he's made several mistakes. But any time a GM signs players to extensions, he's taking a risk of the player not performing or being injured. DD has made some very good moves as a Tiger GM/President. His drafting has been outstanding, many of his trades have been one sided, with the edge to the Tigers and he has built a foundation that should make us a good team for many years. Trading Jackson and or Grandy? It will only happen if the Tigers are overpaid from some team. I would bet my last dollar that if the Tigers were to trade either player, we would come out ahead in such a trade. The signing of IRod and Maggs was mostly Mr. I's doing, while some of the bad extensions were DD's fault. Dombrowski is a smart GM with the ability to build a team from the ground up. He did a great job in Florida as well as here in Detroit.

Dombrowski has never shown the ability to build a perennial contender. His moves since 2006 have hurt the Tigers organization far more than they have helped.

1) He's made horrible trades. Jurrjens for Renteria was unjustifiable, but several smaller trades, such as the Washburn and Huff trades, bombed as well. One of the few good trades he made over the past few years was for Jackson, and he could potentially even squander the good that came from that trade.

2) He's made horrible decisions about which players to sign to long-term extensions. Signing any player to an extension is a risk, so that's why most GMs usually only sign franchise-type players to extensions while players are under team control. Dombrowski showed horrible judgement when he signed aging DH-types like Sheffield and Guillen to extensions, and rewarded back-of-the-rotation pitchers (Robertson and Willis) for no reason. He jumped the gun on the Inge extension as well, imo, rewarding him after only one good year at the plate. Allowing Magglio's option to vest was terrible as well. He's shown that he has no ability to judge which players the team should hold onto and which ones the team should let go before they lose all value.

3) He has virtually ignored the free agent market as a way to improve the Tigers. The Tigers have signed the fewest free agents of any team since 2006. When Dombrowski signs a free agent, it is usally an Adam Everett-type to a one-year deal. Some would argue that not signing free agents is a good thing, but the Tigers have more bad contracts on their books than any other team in MLB, so Dombrowski's model is not working.

4) I wouldn't call his drafts outstanding. Mike Ilitch has given him the financial resources to sign elite talents who have fallen in the draft due to signability concerns to over-slot deals. So, I have a hard time giving him much credit for drafting someone like Rick Porcello, who every GM in MLB knew was an elite talent, but most did not have the financial resources to sign. And outside of first round picks, Dombrowski has had virtually no success in the draft, especially when it comes to drafting hitters. And he hasn't made the Tigers a big presence in Latin America either. Under Dombrowski, the Tigers still have one of the worst farm systems in the game (I think they ranked 28th last year, and should rank in the bottom third again this year.)

Ilitch is insanely loyal. I believe most MLB owners would have fired Dombrowski by now for all the bad contract extensions. $72 million in dead payroll on the books for next season is completely unacceptable.

I expect Granderson and Jackson to be traded. I just have zero faith in Dombrowski to get a good return for the players.

Yes, I post a lot about Dombrowski, and the team's financial situation. Given that my family owns a business, I am very interested in the financial aspect of running a MLB team. But I think discussion about Dombrowski is relevant to this thread, because the failure of his drafts to procure hitting talent and the bad contracts are likely the prime reasons the Tigers are looking to move Granderson and Jackson.

[Scottwood]

How was Inge a bad extension? Based on WAR, he's already been worth the money he's got and he still has 1 year left on his deal to give us surplus value.

[ToledoTigerFan]

Maybe the reason the Tigers are considering trading Granderson and/or Jackson is because they have been offered terrific packages for them. Maybe some of the deals are almost too good to pass up. Maybe they're waiting for someone to up the ante. Someone to offer them a package that is so good, they can't turn it down. I don't want to lose Granderson, but he isn't so good that he couldn't be surpassed.

[diamondhead]

Originally Posted by tigersrok

Dombrowski has never shown the ability to build a perennial contender. His moves since 2006 have hurt the Tigers organization far more than they have helped.

1) He's made horrible trades. Jurrjens for Renteria was unjustifiable, but several smaller trades, such as the Washburn and Huff trades, bombed as well. One of the few good trades he made over the past few years was for Jackson, and he could potentially even squander the good that came from that trade.

2) He's made horrible decisions about which players to sign to long-term extensions. Signing any player to an extension is a risk, so that's why most GMs usually only sign franchise-type players to extensions while players are under team control. Dombrowski showed horrible judgement when he signed aging DH-types like Sheffield and Guillen to extensions, and rewarded back-of-the-rotation pitchers (Robertson and Willis) for no reason. He jumped the gun on the Inge extension as well, imo, rewarding him after only one good year at the plate. Allowing Magglio's option to vest was terrible as well. He's shown that he has no ability to judge which players the team should hold onto and which ones the team should let go before they lose all value.

3) He has virtually ignored the free agent market as a way to improve the Tigers. The Tigers have signed the fewest free agents of any team since 2006. When Dombrowski signs a free agent, it is usally an Adam Everett-type to a one-year deal. Some would argue that not signing free agents is a good thing, but the Tigers have more bad contracts on their books than any other team in MLB, so Dombrowski's model is not working.

4) I wouldn't call his drafts outstanding. Mike Ilitch has given him the financial resources to sign elite talents who have fallen in the draft due to signability concerns to over-slot deals. So, I have a hard time giving him much credit for drafting someone like Rick Porcello, who every GM in MLB knew was an elite talent, but most did not have the financial resources to sign. And outside of first round picks, Dombrowski has had virtually no success in the draft, especially when it comes to drafting hitters. And he hasn't made the Tigers a big presence in Latin America either. Under Dombrowski, the Tigers still have one of the worst farm systems in the game (I think they ranked 28th last year, and should rank in the bottom third again this year.)

Ilitch is insanely loyal. I believe most MLB owners would have fired Dombrowski by now for all the bad contract extensions. $72 million in dead payroll on the books for next season is completely unacceptable.

I expect Granderson and Jackson to be traded. I just have zero faith in Dombrowski to get a good return for the players.

Yes, I post a lot about Dombrowski, and the team's financial situation. Given that my family owns a business, I am very interested in the financial aspect of running a MLB team. But I think discussion about Dombrowski is relevant to this thread, because the failure of his drafts to procure hitting talent and the bad contracts are likely the prime reasons the Tigers are looking to move Granderson and Jackson.

And I thought I was hard on Dombrowski. That being said I can't really disagree with what you posted. Dombrowki hasn't shown that he can effectively work with a big budget and he has seemingly left behind his ability to develop a farm system in Florida. I have hopes that he can turn these weaknesses into strengths in the future, because I think we're stuck with him for awhile.

I think DD gets a lot of leeway with fans because his name isn't Randy Smith or Matt Millen. He still should be held accountable for his failures though.

There's really no reason that DD can't build a dynasty with the resources Illitch has given him.

[EchO]

$72M in dead payroll? That is being a little unfair to DD...

Magglio played very well at the end of the season and should still be a decent hitter next year (albeit for less power). - 18M

Guillen was hurt for the passed season and half (off-and-on) but up until then he had been a very solid contributer. In fact, up until this last season his lowest OPS+ has been 113 for Detroit. Not to mention, he could still produce next season...- 13M

Bonderman got hurt, up until then he looked like he was going to be our #2-#3 starter for years to come. - 12.5M

Nate was a poor extension, but he was a league-average innings eater and he was still relatively young so I can understand why DD did it. - 10M

Willis was signed (seemingly) to help sign Cabrera long term...it worked, Willis didn't, we might still be able to get insurance money from him... - 12M

Inge is an elite defensive third baseman and a fan favorite, he isn't paid all that much and has been at least decent since the extension. - 6.6M

So in all he overpaid for one player to get him to join a horrible team (Magglio), gave a contract extension to a player who consistently had an OPS+ of 115+ and with the contract ending when he was 35...so he wasn't that old (Ibanez is a similar player...he is still playing well and injury free at 37-38), gave a contract extension to a probable #2 or #3 starter in Bonderman (who got hurt), attempted to sign long-term a young back-end starter who lost effectiveness and got hurt (probably not the best decision, but again...not totally crazy), made a horrible signing in Willis, and gave Inge a slightly larger contract than he should've had.

So really he only made one, maybe two really bad signings...the rest are now seen as bad due to injuries. So really there is only 22M in dead payroll caused by DD and him giving out bad contracts.

[84 Lives!!!]

Originally Posted by tigersrok

I believe the fact that the Tigers are contemplating trading Jackson and Granderson, two of the younger, cheaper, more productive players on the roster, basically is an indication that DD has failed as a GM...

T-rok...

Your sob story is an indication that you have failed as an MTS poster.

[The Truman Show]

Oh look, T-rok making inaccurate generalizations to rip on DD. Shocker.

Bad GMs don't win pennants 3 years after winning 43 games.

[diamondhead]

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Oh look, T-rok making inaccurate generalizations to rip on DD. Shocker.

Bad GMs don't win pennants 3 years after winning 43 games.

You could also say good GMs don't finish in last place two seasons later while significantly raising the team's payroll.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by diamondhead

You could also say good GMs don't finish in last place two seasons later while significantly raising the team's payroll.

You could also say they have spent more time in first place since 2006 than any other Central Division team.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by diamondhead

You could also say good GMs don't finish in last place two seasons later while significantly raising the team's payroll.

You could but luckily most of us here are able to analyze a situation and not simply look at things you addressed that don't tell the entire story. Luckily. Most of us.

[Los Gatos]

I was cleaning out a drawer full of old magazines yesterday and came across the 9/28/09 Sports Illustrated with the Tigers' cover story. One of the bolded quotes in the magazine stands out now as it did then:

"Ilitch doesn't operate from a profit-and-loss standpoint," says one exec. "He treats the team like a public trust."

In the past, I was a major critic of Ilitch-the-Tigers-owner because he wasn't spending and it didn't seem like he cared at all. That was during the Randy Smith era and it has been suggested since that he didn't give Smith a lot of money to work with because he didn't have a lot of faith in him. That's changed quite a bit with Dombrowski, in whom he seems to have a ton of faith. Even if Ilitch were to lose that faith in DD, I don't believe we'll see players like Jackson, etc, sold short because Ilitch likely won't want to start from scratch again with the clock ticking. It's easier to replace the GM than all of the players, but at this point I wouldn't count on either one happening soon.

What will be most telling about Ilitch's faith in DD and the team is what happens next winter when more of the contracts drop off. Will we revert to a mid-level payroll or will DD be given the leeway to spend the savings on new players?

[tiger337]

trok's schtick of generalizing Dombrowski as an idiot who doesn't know anything about building a team is silly. However, he often brings up valid points. I think DD has done a good job for the most part but sometimes, it seems that he is beyond criticism on this board. He is protected and apologized for more than any other person connected with the Tigers. So, I don't really mind trok bringing some balance to the discussion even if he is overly negative.

[diamondhead]

Originally Posted by Yoda

You could but luckily most of us here are able to analyze a situation and not simply look at things you addressed that don't tell the entire story. Luckily. Most of us.

Who said I'm not analyzing?

You're the ones implying the guy doesn't deserve blame when things go bad for this team. He's the Vice president and GM of this team, he should have a high level of accountability for his team's failures.

If you guys are happy with falling short of first place or finishing in last place for that matter while the farm system continues to rank in the back half of major league baseball, then more power to you. I expect better performance from the Tiger's general manager and everybody else should do as well. It's come to the point where simply "not being Randy Smith" isn't good enough for me.

[EchO]

I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again...who would you DD haters rather have as a GM? Theo? Cashman? Beane? Bill Smith? All of them have made mistakes and miscues just like DD...in all I feel like there are very few GMs I would rather have than DD; now I wouldn't go so far as to saying he is the best GM, but he is an one of the upper tiers.

In my opinion the only two GMs I would rather have would be Epstein or Beane and possibly Colletti. The problem with Epstein and Colletti is there mistakes are covered by them being GMs of "large market team" so any payroll mistakes aren't seen as devastating as DD's.

[cruzer1]

I think overall DD has done a very good job. If they didn't have Ordonez, there wouldn't have been a World Series, so there has already been a payoff for that contract. He still has another option for 2011 for that contract, so we haven't heard the last from TRok regarding that contract. I don't get how TRok is blaiming DD for allowing the contract to vest to this year, the damage had already been done when the contract was signed, yet the venom has been forthcoming. Which really goes to show that no matter what a GM does, TRok will attack any move and all moves that any GM makes for the Tigers.

[Oblong]

I like to stick up for DD all the time but I will initially take issue with the drafting since he's been here. I admit I'm not an expert on the draft and have no idea how the Tigers drafting since 2002 compares to other teams, it may match up very well. But just giving it 2 minutes thought right now I think the pickings since the 2002 draft are thin. I'd like to hear some others thoughts on that. Granderson was a nice pick. Verlander was the #2 pick. Porcello was luck combined with a financial willingness. But that willingless also led to so much dead salary this year and next.

I'm just a little disappointed, on the surface, that we're not seeing better prospects come through the system. But I can be convinced that I'm wrong.

[diamondhead]

Originally Posted by EchO

I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again...who would you DD haters rather have as a GM? Theo? Cashman? Beane? Bill Smith? All of them have made mistakes and miscues just like DD...in all I feel like there are very few GMs I would rather have than DD; now I wouldn't go so far as to saying he is the best GM, but he is an one of the upper tiers.

In my opinion the only two GMs I would rather have would be Epstein or Beane and possibly Colletti. The problem with Epstein and Colletti is there mistakes are covered by them being GMs of "large market team" so any payroll mistakes aren't seen as devastating as DD's.

I don't know how anyone on this messageboard can honestly answer this question. None of us are privy to know all of the GMs (or potential candidates) and their philosophies. Some GMs might look a lot better if they were given the budget DD has been given. Someone like Cashman could be a complete moron but he has so much margin for error that he can overcome it.

I think Dombrowki is an intelligent baseball person but along the way he has moved away from what was his strength, which was developing a farm system and has gone to someone that has handed out some bizarre and unwarranted contract extensions. I wouldn't trust DD to hand out another contract extension w/o some serious checks and balances being made in the organization to see if it's truly a good move.

[ToledoTigerFan]

Originally Posted by Oblong

I like to stick up for DD all the time but I will initially take issue with the drafting since he's been here. I admit I'm not an expert on the draft and have no idea how the Tigers drafting since 2002 compares to other teams, it may match up very well. But just giving it 2 minutes thought right now I think the pickings since the 2002 draft are thin. I'd like to hear some others thoughts on that. Granderson was a nice pick. Verlander was the #2 pick. Porcello was luck combined with a financial willingness. But that willingless also led to so much dead salary this year and next.

I'm just a little disappointed, on the surface, that we're not seeing better prospects come through the system. But I can be convinced that I'm wrong.

It seems that most of the truly good prospects during the Dombrowski years have been pitchers. Maybe that was by design. Some haven't turned out do to injuries, but 40% of the rotation is home grown, young, and quite good.

Most of the position prospects Dombrowski drafted are just now getting to the point of Major League-ready. The next couple years we should(or we better)be seeing how well his staff has drafted position players. Avila and Thomas look like Major Leaguers, so that's a start.

[Eric Cioe]

My thoughts on the Dombrowski preferred draftees are this: he loves tools. With pitchers, that has worked out. They don't go after pitchability Jimmy Junkballer, they go after flamethrowers who may or may not know where they're supposed to throw the ball. That has worked great: Verlander, Miller, Porcello, Perry, Crosby, Oliver, Weinhardt.

But he goes after the same thing in position players: raw talent. Now, he has come out and said that the organization needs more plate discipline, so one wonders how his drafting will change. Toolsy prospects are great, but they have to be smart enough to put those tools to use and refine their game. Think about those players: Maybin, most obviously, but also Wilkin, Iorg, Gorkys.

I like his high risk, high reward approach to drafting. But I think it'd be good to mix that in with a James Shields-type pitcher here and there, for variety's sake. And with position players, he's got to become less enamored with pure speed, pure power, pure whatever, and find people who are better at playing baseball overall, even though they don't hit the ball as far in BP.

[socaltiger]

The team has been competitive for four straight seasons (2006-2009) and MOST of the season has been exciting plus each spring training is met with realistic expectations of making the post season. Not too Bad. I will take it. DD is ok with me.

[tiger337]

I think Dombrowski and his staff have done a good job drafting and developing pitchers. They have been pretty poor with position players. Going through the statistics this week trying to put together a top prospect list, I was reminded that their system is still weak in hitting prospects.

[Scottwood]

Originally Posted by tiger337

I think Dombrowski and his staff have done a good job drafting and developing pitchers. They have been pretty poor with position players. Going through the statistics this week trying to put together a top prospect list, I was reminded that their system is still weak in hitting prospects.

No doubt about that. Avila, Strieby and Sizemore would rank pretty high at their respective positions. After that, it gets dicey. Iorg and Ramirez are full with tools but haven't put anything together, yet. We have no 3B prospects, are mostly filled with depth or 4th outfielders in the minor league ranks for that position, and don't have much depth in the middle of the infield. Pitching wise, we do have a stable of arms in the relief corps. But, those guys don't project as well to the majors. Oliver, Crosby and Turner excite me and there a couple potential back of the rotation guys mixed in, as well.

We need to hit on Avila and Sizemore and I hope Strieby can either make it work in the OF or become a suitable DH. Beyond that, we need to draft better position prospects, develop them better and hang onto them. We have gaping holes at 3B, SS, and the corner outfield spots that need to be addressed.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by diamondhead

Who said I'm not analyzing?

You're the ones implying the guy doesn't deserve blame when things go bad for this team. He's the Vice president and GM of this team, he should have a high level of accountability for his team's failures.

If you guys are happy with falling short of first place or finishing in last place for that matter while the farm system continues to rank in the back half of major league baseball, then more power to you. I expect better performance from the Tiger's general manager and everybody else should do as well. It's come to the point where simply "not being Randy Smith" isn't good enough for me.

I did no such implying. I'm merely stating your argument point doesn't hold a lot of weight. There's more to it than just looking at payroll cost and not making the playoffs. They were a fairly routine ground ball to Polanco away from winning the division for the first time in 22 years.

I think the bag of trash that was the team in '03 forced DD to overpay, drastically. That certainly is no excuse for the contracts given to guys like Willis, etc., but we don't know how much Illitch had to do with that either. I don't think anyone does. What I do know is he's made some very good trades for us, has built a much-improved minor league system, and has built a team that contends pretty much every year now.

We may not have the best overall organization in baseball, by any means, but I don't think it's broke. Getting greedy and removing what has established a contending team for some time now could backfire. I'm happy with what we have in place.

[Sports_Freak]

Originally Posted by tigersrok

Dombrowski has never shown the ability to build a perennial contender. His moves since 2006 have hurt the Tigers organization far more than they have helped.

1) He's made horrible trades. Jurrjens for Renteria was unjustifiable, but several smaller trades, such as the Washburn and Huff trades, bombed as well. One of the few good trades he made over the past few years was for Jackson, and he could potentially even squander the good that came from that trade.


2) He's made horrible decisions about which players to sign to long-term extensions. Signing any player to an extension is a risk, so that's why most GMs usually only sign franchise-type players to extensions while players are under team control. Dombrowski showed horrible judgement when he signed aging DH-types like Sheffield and Guillen to extensions, and rewarded back-of-the-rotation pitchers (Robertson and Willis) for no reason. He jumped the gun on the Inge extension as well, imo, rewarding him after only one good year at the plate. Allowing Magglio's option to vest was terrible as well. He's shown that he has no ability to judge which players the team should hold onto and which ones the team should let go before they lose all value.

3) He has virtually ignored the free agent market as a way to improve the Tigers. The Tigers have signed the fewest free agents of any team since 2006. When Dombrowski signs a free agent, it is usally an Adam Everett-type to a one-year deal. Some would argue that not signing free agents is a good thing, but the Tigers have more bad contracts on their books than any other team in MLB, so Dombrowski's model is not working.


4) I wouldn't call his drafts outstanding. Mike Ilitch has given him the financial resources to sign elite talents who have fallen in the draft due to signability concerns to over-slot deals. So, I have a hard time giving him much credit for drafting someone like Rick Porcello, who every GM in MLB knew was an elite talent, but most did not have the financial resources to sign. And outside of first round picks, Dombrowski has had virtually no success in the draft, especially when it comes to drafting hitters. And he hasn't made the Tigers a big presence in Latin America either. Under Dombrowski, the Tigers still have one of the worst farm systems in the game (I think they ranked 28th last year, and should rank in the bottom third again this year.)


Ilitch is insanely loyal. I believe most MLB owners would have fired Dombrowski by now for all the bad contract extensions. $72 million in dead payroll on the books for next season is completely unacceptable.

I expect Granderson and Jackson to be traded. I just have zero faith in Dombrowski to get a good return for the players.

Yes, I post a lot about Dombrowski, and the team's financial situation. Given that my family owns a business, I am very interested in the financial aspect of running a MLB team. But I think discussion about Dombrowski is relevant to this thread, because the failure of his drafts to procure hitting talent and the bad contracts are likely the prime reasons the Tigers are looking to move Granderson and Jackson.

1) Harp on that ONE trade. How about the Polanco trade? The Guillen trade? The Jackson trade? All in all, most of his trades have been outstanding. The Huff and Washburn trades didn't work out, but we didn't give up much to get these guys and at least he made an effort to improve the team. It's not his fault the guys didn't produce.


2) Who knew Bonderman would get hurt? Same with Guillen. And who knew Robertson would be injured and ineffective. The one extension that was a mistake was Willis. And one bad FA contract was to Fernando Vina, otherwise most of his free agents have worked out.

3) I don't agree. Many teams have players that are signed long term and are injured. The Mets? Just one of many...

4) Again, I don't agree. The Tigers draft pitchers, who are very valuable as trade bait to fill other positions. The talent we have coming through the system right now will make us a very good team. I do look for them to start drafting more positions players.


I guess we could agree that we don't agree. But I look at it this way, look where the Tigers were before DD started running the team. And look at them now. As a Tiger fan, I'll take the here and now over the early 90's any day of the week. Could another GM do better? Maybe, but name them.

[Sports_Freak]

Originally Posted by 84 Lives!!!

T-rok...

Your sob story is an indication that you have failed as an MTS poster.

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Oh look, T-rok making inaccurate generalizations to rip on DD. Shocker.

Bad GMs don't win pennants 3 years after winning 43 games.

Ahhhh...no reason to get into an attack on him. He has his opinions and he's just expressing them. While many on the board may not agree, he's entitled to express his opinions and even throw some facts out there to support his opinion. I don't agree with him at all about DD, but I will rationally discuss my opinion, which I am also entitled to.

I mean after all, if you look hard enough, you may even find people who thought Matt Millen did a good job.

[Sports_Freak]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

I think overall DD has done a very good job. If they didn't have Ordonez, there wouldn't have been a World Series, so there has already been a payoff for that contract. He still has another option for 2011 for that contract, so we haven't heard the last from TRok regarding that contract. I don't get how TRok is blaiming DD for allowing the contract to vest to this year, the damage had already been done when the contract was signed, yet the venom has been forthcoming. Which really goes to show that no matter what a GM does, TRok will attack any move and all moves that any GM makes for the Tigers.

I think I remember it was Ilitch who insisted on signing Ordonez. Didn't he go down to Florida or something to court him? For some reason, I seem to remember Ilitch insisting on this signing.

[Sports_Freak]

Originally Posted by Oblong

I like to stick up for DD all the time but I will initially take issue with the drafting since he's been here. I admit I'm not an expert on the draft and have no idea how the Tigers drafting since 2002 compares to other teams, it may match up very well. But just giving it 2 minutes thought right now I think the pickings since the 2002 draft are thin. I'd like to hear some others thoughts on that. Granderson was a nice pick. Verlander was the #2 pick. Porcello was luck combined with a financial willingness. But that willingless also led to so much dead salary this year and next.

I'm just a little disappointed, on the surface, that we're not seeing better prospects come through the system. But I can be convinced that I'm wrong.

Wasn't Granderson drafted before Dombrowski got here? I may be wrong but I think he was.

Google tells me I'm wrong. DD was hired before Grandy was drafted.
My bad.

June 4, 2002; Chicago, Ill. - University of Illinois at Chicago junior outfielder Curtis Granderson (Lynwood, Ill./T.F. South) became the first player from the state of Illinois to be picked in the Major League Baseball First Year Player Draft as the Detroit Tigers tabbed him with the 80th pick overall on Tuesday.

Baseball's Curtis Granderson Drafted By Detroit Tigers - UIC OFFICIAL ATHLETIC SITE

When owner Mike Ilitch hired Dombrowski as GM in the fall of 2001, the Tigers were coming off eight straight losing seasons. Lacking a strong farm system or star-level major league talent, many speculated that things could get worse before they got better in Detroit. Four more losing seasons, including the historically awful 43-119 season in 2003, proved those dire predictions true. But thanks to some strong drafting, a fruitful player development system and some well-timed trades and signings, the Tigers have come roaring back in 2006.

Baseball Prospectus | Prospectus Q&A: Dave Dombrowski

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by Sports_Freak

I think I remember it was Ilitch who insisted on signing Ordonez. Didn't he go down to Florida or something to court him? For some reason, I seem to remember Ilitch insisting on this signing.

Absolutely.

[sabretooth]

Originally Posted by tiger337

sometimes, it seems that he is beyond criticism on this board. He is protected and apologized for more than any other person connected with the Tigers.

I totally disagree, Lee.

I think the arguments you see here in favor of or defending DD are largely in reaction to completely one-sided critiques leveled by DD's biggest detractors.

I would never think of posting something in favor of DD, generally speaking, but trok's analysis, while valid in many respects, is so one-sided as to require others responding in favor of DD to provide some balance.

[DaYooperASBDT]

I think DD has drafted pretty well overall. Don't forget he also drafted guys like Miller and Maybin, which enabled the Cabrera deal.

As for third base depth lower in the organization, some here have indicated that Fields will not remain a SS due to his size, so maybe he'll become a 3B ??

TRok makes a lot a great posts here, but I'll never get why DD is a genius when a player gets injured, and an idiot if a player doesn't get injured. And what does it matter, insurance covers the contracts in most cases anyway.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by DaYooperASBDT

I think DD has drafted pretty well overall. Don't forget he also drafted guys like Miller and Maybin, which enabled the Cabrera deal.

As for third base depth lower in the organization, some here have indicated that Fields will not remain a SS due to his size, so maybe he'll become a 3B ??

TRok makes a lot a great posts here, but I'll never get why DD is a genius when a player gets injured, and an idiot if a player doesn't get injured. And what does it matter, insurance covers the contracts in most cases anyway.

What GM has drafted tremendously and made zero payroll mistakes. Thats really the point. If Cashman, Epstein, Smith etc..were perfect, spell it out in fact, because they're not.

So compared to whom is DD inferior. It's easuy to ctiricize, but compared to what standard of excellence.

[kdog]

The Tigers build up to being good was a bit unconventional for a medium market team. They built the team with older free agents and sprinkled in some young pitching along the way. They were seduced by that model and made some mistakes (Sheff and Rentawreck). I think DD is miscast as a big balling spend a lot of money gm. He's a guy that has to back to his roots of player development above everything else. That's what he's good at and I believe they are in the process of doing that.

[CMRivdog]

It looks like we can rule out Seattle as a trade partner, at least for now

Mariners, Tigers Trade Talks Stall: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Trade talks between the Mariners and Tigers have stalled, according to ESPN's Jerry Crasnick. Edwin Jackson and Curtis Granderson have been discussed, but Crasnick's source finds a deal "pretty doubtful." Crasnick indicates that the Mariners were never terribly interested in Granderson, but did like Jackson. The asking price is simply too high at present.

Crasnick says many feel Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski is trying to sell high on Jackson, who posted a 3.62 ERA in 214 innings this year. Jackson is only 26, and he did improve both his strikeout and walk rates (6.8 K/9, 2.9 BB/9). Some are dinging Jackson for his final eleven starts, over which he posted a 5.83 ERA with a 6.0 K/9 and 3.1 BB/9. If you are an xFIP fan, that stat had Jackson at 4.58 this year. XFIP presumably wouldn't factor in at an arbitration hearing, however, and Jackson is due a pretty big raise on this year's $2.2MM salary.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by CMRivdog

It looks like we can rule out Seattle as a trade partner, at least for now

Mariners, Tigers Trade Talks Stall: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Funny how the truth is always nice to see in print. The Mariners didn't have the cargo to make a deal and Dombrowski wants more than fair value, big shocker.

Let's repeat this together "It's not a fire sale"

[C03BRA]

Originally Posted by CMRivdog

It looks like we can rule out Seattle as a trade partner, at least for now

Mariners, Tigers Trade Talks Stall: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Good to hear..."the asking price was simply too high at this point"

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by C03BRA

Good to hear..."the asking price was simply too high at this point"

Exactly. And it should remain high for both Jackson and Granderson.

[JonBenke]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

Funny how the truth is always nice to see in print. The Mariners didn't have the cargo to make a deal and Dombrowski wants more than fair value, big shocker.

Let's repeat this together "It's not a fire sale"

Exactly.

Crasnick says many feel Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski is trying to sell high on Jackson.

[RobSk]

Originally Posted by C03BRA

Good to hear..."the asking price was simply too high at this point"

Great to hear that, no doubt.

Rob

[ToledoTigerFan]

So the deals they have been offered for Granderson ain't so great. That keeps me happy. It would have to be more than a great deal for me to want Granderson included. I don't think it's going to happen, anyway. A public relations nightmare if they did. It would be like trading Trammell at 29.

[tater6]

Originally Posted by ToledoTigerFan

It would be like trading Trammell at 29.

Maybe in popularity but not talent. Granderson is no where near Tram in talent IMO.