Washburn to miss next start(s)-Pitcher undecided who will take his spot.

[CapitalTigers]

Jim Leyland said that Washburn is “hurt, obviously” and “does not appear pitchable” because of his knee. Washburn’s next start was supposed to be Sunday in the last game of that potentially tumultuous three-game series in Minnesota.

I don’t have answers on who we’re going to pitch,” Leyland said of Washburn’s spot for Sunday and beyond. “I have no idea right now. I’m going to sit down with the coaches and try to figure something out. I don’t have any answers for you right now. I wish I did. I don’t have any answers for me.”

Perhaps the Tigers now need to look outside the organization for a starting pitcher who is the equivalent of lefty swinger Matt Stairs in 2006 -- a September acquisition from another club who can help the Tigers reach the playoffs, even though he arrives too late in the season to be eligible for them.

On the Tigers’ current pitching staff, there’s no obvious candidate to replace Washburn. Eddie Bonine has stepped into the battered rotation for Nate Robertson, and Armando Galarraga doesn’t look physically ready to resume starting after his recent arm woes. Leyland feels Zach Miner is valuable in the bullpen and wants to keep him there.

Boy, I sure am glad we didn't go after Smoltz or Penny.

[Frink]

Well, it's time to bring up Jacob Turner. He's already on the 40-man, anyway. :D

[dadair6]

Nothing like being in a pennant race with three pitchers. Ugh.

[Oblong]

and one of them (Jackson) lately hasn't instilled a lot of confidence and the other's 20 years old!

[sportz4life]

Guess what, somebody needs to step up..happens all the time. While everyone worries and whines, it's an opportunity for someone.

[Edman85]

Alright, I'll say it.

Casey Crosby.

[DTroppens]

I wouldn't be shocked if we don't see him start another game the rest of the year.

[4hzglory]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

Guess what, somebody needs to step up..happens all the time. While everyone worries and whines, it's an opportunity for someone.

Exactly. It isn't ideal, but look what MN is dealing with.

And to complain about the Washburn trade now is crazy IMO. In his 30+ innings before the trade he had given up like 3-4 runs. He had allowed 11 HR all season before the trade. He was considered the best option out there besides Halliday at the deadline and we got him for a minimal cost. I definitely believe that Smoltz and Penny's revival has a lot more to do with the league they are in than the fact that they just got that much better basically overnight. Give me the pitcher who was thriving in the AL at the time over the 2 who were floundering. The fact that it hasn't worked out doesn't make it a bad trade. Sometimes things just happen. Who knows, maybe missing 2-3 starts will make a difference. Unlikely, but he was pitching with the problem all season, it just appears more severe now.

[4hzglory]

Originally Posted by Edman85

Alright, I'll say it.

Casey Crosby.

That would be intriguing. Only probably get 3-4 innings, but hey it would be 3-4 innings we don't need from somewhere else. If Robertson or Gallaraga can't go I'd be game to try it. Worst case scenerio he is as bad as Washburn has been. However I think it is an definite long shot.

I wouldn't be shocked if we don't see him start another game the rest of the year.

Me either

[CapitalTigers]

Originally Posted by Edman85

Alright, I'll say it.

Casey Crosby.

I would be intrigued by this, but considering they kept him in A ball without even some AA starts makes me think we're looking at next year at earliest.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by CapitalTigers

I would be intrigued by this, but considering they kept him in A ball without even some AA starts makes me think we're looking at next year at earliest.

You all must have missed his playoff start. It was poor or brutal if oyu want to be honest.

The solution is pretty simple. Nate will start when they need him too.

[tigerbomb13]

Originally Posted by Edman85

Alright, I'll say it.

Casey Crosby.

Interesting thought. Obviously he's on a strict pitch count and that's quite the leap, but he just may be more effective than about any choice out there.

[4hzglory]

Originally Posted by CapitalTigers

I would be intrigued by this, but considering they kept him in A ball without even some AA starts makes me think we're looking at next year at earliest.

Obviously they didn't plan on him coming up this year otherwise he would be here now in September. Edman was just saying his name as an option of someone who wasn't added in September.

I agree with sportz4life, it will be Nate unless he can't go with his groin area muscle pull.

[sagnam]

Originally Posted by 4hzglory

Washburn was considered the best option out there besides Halliday at the deadline and we got him for a minimal cost. I definitely believe that Smoltz and Penny's revival has a lot more to do with the league they are in than the fact that they just got that much better basically overnight.

Why is it that you can easily rationalize one player's struggles as just bad breaks after switching teams in the same league, but then minimize the improvement that two other players made after switching teams and leagues? If a player can switch teams and just simply play worse, then why is it out of the question that a player could switch teams and suddenly play better?

[Microline133]

Alfredo Figaro.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by Microline133

Alfredo Figaro.

At least to eat innings as a long reliever..good call.

[4hzglory]

Originally Posted by sagnam

Why is it that you can easily rationalize one player's struggles as just bad breaks after switching teams in the same league, but then minimize the improvement that two other players made after switching teams and leagues? If a player can switch teams and just simply play worse, then why is it out of the question that a player could switch teams and suddenly play better?

Oh, they could be doing better just by switching teams, I just think the majority of it is the league. I could be wrong, but it isn't like they weren't in playoff races before and now have something to play for. And I think Washburn's knee is acting up worse now than it was before as seems obvious by his reactions when he landed last night.

Going back to the trade deadline though, given the choice between Washburn who was pitching great in the AL and Smoltz/Penny who were not pitching well, and the relatively cheap IMO cost of getting Washburn and I do what the Tigers did.

[4hzglory]

Originally Posted by Microline133

Alfredo Figaro.

Is he ready to go? If so, defititely more likely than Crosby.

[Microline133]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

At least to eat innings as a long reliever..good call.

He's capable of much more than that, and I'd lobby he's the best current option for that vacant starting spot....

[Microline133]

Originally Posted by 4hzglory

Is he ready to go? If so, defititely more likely than Crosby.

He was pitching long relief innings for Erie down the stretch.

[CapitalTigers]

Originally Posted by 4hzglory

Going back to the trade deadline though, given the choice between Washburn who was pitching great in the AL and Smoltz/Penny who were not pitching well, and the relatively cheap IMO cost of getting Washburn and I do what the Tigers did.

This has yet to be determined.

[pyrotigers]

Originally Posted by CapitalTigers

Boy, I sure am glad we didn't go after Smoltz or Penny.

Smoltz is currently injured actually, and as for Penny I don't think pitching in the NL West in AT&T Park would be quite the same as the AL in any other stadium.

I think everyone expected Washburn to regress, he isn't nearly as good as his numbers in Seattle, but I also think it's fair to say he would still be a solid pitcher if not for his injury. Even in his worst seasons he was never a complete batting practice pitcher like he is now.

[4hzglory]

Originally Posted by CapitalTigers

This has yet to be determined.

Of course it is, but in projecting both of them right now (which is what you do when you make a trade) IMO it was a cheap price to pay for what Wasburn was doing.

On the bum knee, in his 5 starts before the trade his numbers were incredible:

36 2/3 IP, 20 hits, 7 BB, 3 Runs (all Earned) 0.74 WHIP, 0.74 ERA

If he was pitching like that when injured, trading a marginal starter at best and a A level long shot was well worth it IMO. The fact that the injury has appeared to have gotten worse was a chance well worth taking IMO.

[thefunk]

I think it's time to see what the Million Dollar baby can do.

Call up Rick Porcello! I know he's not even 21, but if we limit his innings to like....5 a start? It'll be better than anyone else we've got.


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap. Can you believe this is what a lot of people wanted? To wait until now? Everything's funnier in hindsight, I guess.

[Sports_Freak]

Originally Posted by pyrotigers

Smoltz is currently injured actually, and as for Penny I don't think pitching in the NL West in AT&T Park would be quite the same as the AL in any other stadium.

I think everyone expected Washburn to regress, he isn't nearly as good as his numbers in Seattle, but I also think it's fair to say he would still be a solid pitcher if not for his injury. Even in his worst seasons he was never a complete batting practice pitcher like he is now.

At least the Tigers didn't sign him to a 3 year, 30 million dollar contract before he even pitched for us.

[catswithbats]

Who's available via trade anyway?

I kind of feel bad for Washburn.

[thefunk]

I don't feel bad for Washburn at all. The guy hosed us, right along with the Mariners. You know they knew he was injured goods, and would probably decline, and you KNOW he knew it as well. Just a matter of time, and Seattle lucked out that the timing worked perfectly for them.

They get two of our guys, and they'll likely get a rehabbed Washburn at the beginning of next year too.

We got screwed, plain and simple.

Send him down to A ball and let him watch the race from there. I'm sick of watching this doofus stare at his own home run balls.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by pyrotigers

Smoltz is currently injured actually, and as for Penny I don't think pitching in the NL West in AT&T Park would be quite the same as the AL in any other stadium.

I think everyone expected Washburn to regress, he isn't nearly as good as his numbers in Seattle, but I also think it's fair to say he would still be a solid pitcher if not for his injury. Even in his worst seasons he was never a complete batting practice pitcher like he is now.

Agree. We only got 2 good starts and rest were just total garbage. You have to figure the injury was the main factor in this. He looks uncomfortable out there and can't get on top of the ball. But I'm ok with it because Porcello has basically turned it around.

[Eric Cioe]

It's 3 starts. Have a bullpen day once a week. Not a big deal. Call up Rapada and Figaro, have Figaro go 3-5 innings, Rapada 1, Fien 1, Miner 1, etc.

[4hzglory]

Posts like this make me laugh.

Pitching with a bum knee not only hurts, but is potentially damaging to your arm as you compensate. The fact that he is continuing to do it at age 35 (thus potentially career threatening) to me means he is giving it his all without concern of the long term effects.

As far as:

We got screwed, plain and simple.

You must have a lot higher opinion of French and Robles than I do. If we would have given up a top prospect I would agree with you. We gave up 1 guy that at best projects to be a #4-5 starter and a guy with potential in A-ball, but the type of who we have been producing every year and is a long shot to reach his potential.

Has the trade worked out for us? No. Is it the option I would have done knowing what we did at the deadline. 1000 times out of 1000.

[Scottwood]

Leyland wants to keep Miner in the pen. If Nate is not healthy enough to eat some innings, then Figaro gets the call.

[Scottwood]

Washburn was a 4.5 ERA-type pitcher who could eat innings his entire career. There is a lot of value in that durability and consistency in the back of any rotation. At the time of the trade, Porcello was scuffling, Galaragga was among the worst starters in MLB and you had to think that Washburn was a better bet than French going forward. The trade did not work out as planned, but I am not going to rake DD over the coals. Unless the injury was much, much worse than was being let on, then there was no real reason at the time of the trade to think that Washburn would revert from his career norms as a solid guy at the back of the rotation to a guy who can't get anyone out. It was a move made with good intentions that just did not work out. It happens to even the best GM's.

[4hzglory]

Unless the injury was much, much worse than was being let on, then there was no real reason at the time of the trade to think that Washburn would revert from his career norms as a solid guy at the back of the rotation to a guy who can't get anyone out.

Unless he more severly injured himself after the start right before the trade, there was no reason not to make the trade. Again, here are his stats for the 5 starts right before the trade - this as the injured pitcher he was:

36 2/3 IP, 20 hits, 7 BB, 3 Runs (all Earned) 0.74 WHIP, 0.74 ERA

Now I don't think anyone expected him to keep that up, but he was pitching injured then and had been since May so there was definitely reason to believe he would at least put up the 4.5 era and eat innings like you said.

[4hzglory]

Well, it looks like Micro was right as usual. Figaro was activated.

Alfredo Figaro activated

Whether he ends up the 5th starter or is used in the pen has not been said, but this is the best option IMO.

[redshark63]

Originally Posted by 4hzglory

Well, it looks like Micro was right as usual. Figaro was activated.

Alfredo Figaro activated

Whether he ends up the 5th starter or is used in the pen has not been said, but this is the best option IMO.

...and that is why he is known as "The Machine".

[FloridaTigers]

I agree on Figaro being the right option.

But man, so much for Washburn...

[Dan Gilmore]

Originally Posted by thefunk

I don't feel bad for Washburn at all. The guy hosed us, right along with the Mariners. You know they knew he was injured goods, and would probably decline, and you KNOW he knew it as well. Just a matter of time, and Seattle lucked out that the timing worked perfectly for them.

They get two of our guys, and they'll likely get a rehabbed Washburn at the beginning of next year too.

We got screwed, plain and simple.

Send him down to A ball and let him watch the race from there. I'm sick of watching this doofus stare at his own home run balls.

Payback for the Guillen trade? Seattle must feel like we owed em one.

[LeFlorist]

Originally Posted by Dan Gilmore

Payback for the Guillen trade? Seattle must feel like we owed em one.

Hadn't thought of it, but it certainly true.

As for Figaro, how'd he do pitching long relief for Erie? And why was he there instead of, say, starting for Toledo (or Erie)?

[LeFlorist]

Or is that the whistle of the D-Train I hear in the distance?

[Sports_Freak]

Leyland feels Zach Miner is valuable in the bullpen and wants to keep him there.


Leyland's refusal to start Miner may end up costing us the division.