When will the Tigers make a Trade? - Page 5

84 Lives!!! · #**161** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Yeah, your probably right... The Reds and the Diamondbacks should hire you to be the GM... you know a whole lot more than both of their entire organization..... But, I have been accused of being misinformed!

You're still confusing "hitter" with "player".

If I were an NL team, I would ALSO avoid Adam Dunn, unless he were the ONLY weak fielder on the team, and I needed a bat. That's why The Reds and D-Backs dumped him... he's not an all-around PLAYER and they can't hide him at DH, like an AL team can.

Guess what? The Tigers are an AL team and they can hide him at DH. They don't HAVE to play him in the field... so to us he is ONLY a HITTER, not a two-way player.

Does this NOT make sense to you?

BTW: The Nats signed him because they're BEREFT of talent.

Mr. Bigglesworth · #**162** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

You suprise me Biggles! You normally have a much better argument!

I probably have made better arguments in the past, but I think it is hard to argue that Adam Dunn is not an effective hitter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Adam Dunn Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Dunn is a great hitter? Check out the link above for some actual truth. Dunn is not a great hitter. Dunn is a home run hitter and little else.

Dunn is an effective offensive player. I don't know if I termed him great, but he is pretty damned effective.

What makes him effective is he hits a bunch of home runs and reaches base a lot - often by walking. Getting on base and hitting for power are the two most important things in generating runs, which is the whole point of offense. Compiling a shiny batting average is not the point of offense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

I have watched Dunn for his entire career as a Red. I haven't seen him much as a Nat. I can tell you that he normally leads the league in strikeouts and hits for poor average. He has 9 years in and has turned from a below average defender into a very poor defender.

Maybe in watching a lot of Reds games, you have bought into a lot of claims that their announcing crew and Dusty Baker have made, which generally center around the notions that the best baseball players are those who can run, hit for high batting average, and bunt and advance runners effectively. And those are nice skills to have. But hitting for power and getting on base are more to far more important in actually generating runs. Which is the point of offense.

I agree Dunn is not effective defensively. I don't give a crap, because in the AL, there is a DH, the proposal was for Dunn to DH, and the DH does not field. Ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

If Dunn is so great why did the Reds have to trade him and cash for 3 minor league players that probably will never make the majors? If Dunn is so good, why didn't the Reds resign him? If Dunn is so good, why didn't Arizona resign him? Is it perhaps because those 2 clubs don't think he is worth the money?

Babe Ruth was traded for $100,000 and no prospects. Clearly he wasn't worth the money to the Red Sox.

ARod was traded for prospects. Clearly Texas didn't think he was worth the money.

Miguel Cabrera was traded for prospects. Florida didn't think he was worth the money.

I don't care if two teams traded Dunn. Plenty of good players have been traded. I judge players by what they do on the field, not by how many teams happened to trade him or how cheaply he could have been had when he was a free agent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Dunn is a statue in the outfield. Dunn can not play the field for a championship caliber team.

I don't give a crap, because in the AL, there is a DH, the proposal was for Dunn to DH, and the DH does not field. Ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Dunn as a DH? If you are ok with having a slow, low average, high strikeout guy who can not play any other position clogging up the bases who you are going to pay a lot of money for..... he might just be your guy!

I am OK with a high slugging, high OBP hitter as a DH, even if he is not a good baserunner. He is well worth $10M a year in today's game.

Eric Cioe · #**163** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Yeah, your probably right... The Reds and the Diamondbacks should hire you to be the GM... you know a whole lot more than both of their entire organization..... But, I have been accused of being misinformed!

You're wrong about the D'Backs. The D'Backs loved the guy when he was at the plate. They hated him in the field. They were making a run at the division and went out and got the second or third best available bat (Manny, Tex). They didn't offer him a contract because they haven't got any money.

I can't figure out why Dunn is still in the NL, but there is no mistaking that he's a pretty good hitter.

The Truman Show · #**164** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Just curious to all of the sabers out there.... would you trade Miggy for Dunn? The stats say you could with no problem... Just curious

No because Miggy is also a plus defender and younger.

Of course, no one said "you could trade them no problem," just that they were roughly equivalent offensively. You might want to address the points that people are actually making.

84 Lives!!! · #**165** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

No because Miggy is also a plus defender and younger...

That is just SO FUNNY to see, especially after last year.

But... apparently, it is becoming a true statement...

The Truman Show · #**166** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Cioe

You're wrong about the D'Backs. The D'Backs loved the guy when he was at the plate. They hated him in the field. They were making a run at the division and went out and got the second or third best available bat (Manny, Tex). They didn't offer him a contract because they haven't got any money.

I can't figure out why Dunn is still in the NL, but there is no mistaking that he's a pretty good hitter.

Well, I know I can't criticize an organization unless I'm a GM, but they might have had money to sign him if they didn't sign Eric Byrnes to that retarded contract. Coincidentally, they signed him to that deal because he hit for high average and stole a lot of bases in 07 (things that don't mean a whole lot), and also because he has a gritty, gamer reputation (also doesn't mean much). Not surprisingly, Eric Byrnes is now spending most of his time on the bench watching good hitters play.

84 Lives!!! · #**167** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:16 PM

PS: Of course I also agree with the Truman Show on that entire post (#164)!

Mr. Bigglesworth · #**168** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Just curious to all of the sabers out there.... would you trade Miggy for Dunn? The stats say you could with no problem... Just curious

The stats do not say Miggy = Dunn. Miggy is a more effective hitter than Dunn, plays a defensive position well, and is younger.

So no, I would not trade Miggy for Dunn.

But I can think of lots of players that I would trade for Dunn straight up. Pretty much all but a few players on the Reds, or any team, actually.

The Truman Show · #**169** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84 Lives!!!

That is just SO FUNNY to see, especially after last year.

But... apparently, it is becoming a true statement...

I know, I'm having trouble getting used to it myself.

Eric Cioe · #**170** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Just curious to all of the sabers out there.... would you trade Miggy for Dunn? The stats say you could with no problem... Just curious

No. Cabrera's younger and better at defense. That doesn't mean that Dunn isn't about equal as a hitter.

The Truman Show · #**171** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:19 PM

Btw, the "itsallgood = tyrus" tag is wrong. Even Tyrus has enough sense to recognize that Adam Dunn is a very good hitter.

The Truman Show · #**172** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:24 PM

Also, I'd like to point out that Mr. Bigglesworth is at the very least my equal, and Eric Cioe is much more knowledgeable than I am. But, I suppose I am rather arrogant at times.

itsallgood8989 · #**173** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Wow, that's a cute retort. God forbid I judge two organizations with a fairly long history of missteps and underperformance over the last 3 or 4 years and call them bad organizations.

Didn't the Diamondbacks win the World Series in 2001? Haven't they been in the playoffs other than that year? I don't think they are a team of misteps and underperformance as you suggest.

Lets see, the Expo's moved to Washington in 2005. Now that is a long history if your 5!

Eric Cioe · #**174** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Btw, the "itsallgood = tyrus" tag is wrong. Even Tyrus has enough sense to recognize that Adam Dunn is a very good hitter.

Just because I want to, I'm going to bring up the Dunn vs. Ichiro thing that Tyrus loves to get into. In cases like that, you have to compare both overall value of each player and composition of the team. Let's assume their overall value is identical this season. Right now, I might take Ichiro, because he plays a great right field and can lead off really well. To me, that would be a better fit for the team than a guy who has to DH. I could be convinced otherwise, especially if Clete hits well enough in RF.

As an overall player, Dunn is not on the same tier as guys like A-Rod, Tex, Hanley, Pujols, Cabrera, etc. But he's not too far behind. You just have to make sure he doesn't have a chance to give away defensively many of the runs he gets you on offense.

Eric Cioe · #**175** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Didn't the Diamondbacks win the World Series in 2001? Haven't they been in the playoffs other than that year? I don't think they are a team of misteps and underperformance as you suggest.

Lets see, the Expo's moved to Washington in 2005. Now that is a long history if your 5!

As a D'Backs fan, I will say that their front office is inconsistent. They did a nice job getting Haren and drafting Upton and developing Drew and Reynolds. But the Byrnes extension was dumb, to say the least. I thought they did a nice job getting rid of Valverde and getting a guy back in Qualls who is just as good. If you want to talk about a badly run organization in the NL, I think you have to start with Washington, Pittsburgh, San Diego, and Houston. I don't think the D'Backs are the best but they do a good job with the resources they have most of the time. Organizationally, they're probably about equal to the Tigers: good work lots of times, and a couple of dumb moves to blemish it.

The Truman Show · #**176** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Didn't the Diamondbacks win the World Series in 2001? Haven't they been in the playoffs other than that year? I don't think they are a team of misteps and underperformance as you suggest.

Lets see, the Expo's moved to Washington in 2005. Now that is a long history if your 5!

Well, considering I was talking the Reds and D-backs, I don't see how the Nats are at all relevant to the post you quoted.

In the time frame I specified (3-4 years), the D-backs have been to the playoffs once, in 2007. Since then, they have been in a pretty steep decline, choking away a playoff birth in 08 and sitting in 4th place currently. Along the decline are some pretty notable missteps, namely the ridiculous extension handed out to Eric Byrnes, and the hiring of AJ Hinch as manager without any experience whatsoever.

Even if you want to argue that the Diamondbacks are a better organization than I give them credit for, which is fine, that really doesn't have anything to do with Adam Dunn being a great hitter, and your refusal to acknowledge such. I am amused, however, that rather than attempting to defend your stance on Adam Dunn, you are simply nitpicking various comments which aren't even germane to the argument.

The Truman Show · #**177** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Cioe

Just because I want to, I'm going to bring up the Dunn vs. Ichiro thing that Tyrus loves to get into. In cases like that, you have to compare both overall value of each player and composition of the team. Let's assume their overall value is identical this season. Right now, I might take Ichiro, because he plays a great right field and can lead off really well. To me, that would be a better fit for the team than a guy who has to DH. I could be convinced otherwise, especially if Clete hits well enough in RF.

As an overall player, Dunn is not on the same tier as guys like A-Rod, Tex, Hanley, Pujols, Cabrera, etc. But he's not too far behind. You just have to make sure he doesn't have a chance to give away defensively many of the runs he gets you on offense.

Honestly, I think we need Adam Dunn more, simply because our defense is fine and I think Clete can play adequate RF. Having Ichiro would be great too. Can't go wrong with either.

itsallgood8989 · #**178** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:45 PM

As a baseball fan and a fan of the Tigers since 1968..... all I can say is I disagree with all of the Dunn love. I further think that if a Dusty Baker, Sparky Anderson, Billy Martin or Jim Leland talk about baseball and which skills are the most important.... All of them talked about smallball is how you win a championship. Pitching and good defense. Not that they would not take a slugger, but they would not trade pitching or defense for it. they all talked about the desire for speed and the ability to create runs when you are facing another great pitcher.

In all my years of watching baseball, I can only recall Eral Weaver of the Orioles who bragged about, " give me a single and I will wait for the HR to drive him in!" Of course Earl did have 4 20 game winners one year!

Just my opinion, after watching Dunn for many years, I would not trade a lot of assets for him. I'm almost of the opinion that if we gave Thames as many AB's as Dunn gets, we might have very similar stats to talk about.

84 Lives!!! · #**179** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Cioe

...you have to compare both overall value of each player and composition of the team. Let's assume their overall value is identical this season. Right now, I might take Ichiro, because he plays a great right field and can lead off really well...

I'd take them both.

DFA the Maggs and Anderson tandem, replace with Ichiro and Dunn. Now the lineup is:

1. Ichiro (LF)
2. Polanco (2B)
3. Granderson (CF)
4. Cabrera (1B)
5. Dunn/ Thames (DH - Dunn's last 3 years' splits against LH'ers = .821 OPS and this year is .776... I'd give that to Thames at .878 and 1.032...)
6. Raburn/ Thomas (RF)
7. Inge (3B)
8. Laird (C)
9. Everett/ Santiago (SS)

THEN... I think we could generate some offense with that!!! Maybe even some World Series-winning offense...

itsallgood8989 · #**180** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Well, considering I was talking the Reds and D-backs, I don't see how the Nats are at all relevant to the post you quoted.

In the time frame I specified (3-4 years), the D-backs have been to the playoffs once, in 2007. Since then, they have been in a pretty steep decline, choking away a playoff birth in 08 and sitting in 4th place currently. Along the decline are some pretty notable missteps, namely the ridiculous extension handed out to Eric Byrnes, and the hiring of AJ Hinch as manager without any experience whatsoever.

Even if you want to argue that the Diamondbacks are a better organization than I give them credit for, which is fine, that really doesn't have anything to do with Adam Dunn being a great hitter, and your refusal to acknowledge such. I am amused, however, that rather than attempting to defend your stance on Adam Dunn, you are simply nitpicking various comments which aren't even germane to the argument.

So, 3 or 4 years is a long history of missteps and underperformance for you?

84 Lives!!! · #**181** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:48 PM

PS: I listed positions just in case itsallgood was misinformed... thinking I was going to try and put Dunn in the field or something like that...

Robinson for MVP · #**182** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

As a baseball fan and a fan of the Tigers since 1968..... all I can say is I disagree with all of the Dunn love. I further think that if a Dusty Baker, Sparky Anderson, Billy Martin or Jim Leland talk about baseball and which skills are the most important.... All of them talked about smallball is how you win a championship. Pitching and good defense. Not that they would not take a slugger, but they would not trade pitching or defense for it. they all talked about the desire for speed and the ability to create runs when you are facing another great pitcher.

In all my years of watching baseball, I can only recall Eral Weaver of the Orioles who bragged about, " give me a single and I will wait for the HR to drive him in!" Of course Earl did have 4 20 game winners one year!

Just my opinion, after watching Dunn for many years, I would not trade a lot of assets for him. I'm almost of the opinion that if we gave Thames as many AB's as Dunn gets, we might have very similar stats to talk about.

And I am of the opinion that the game has changed a lot in 40 years and I would trade for Adam Dunn. Good talk.

84 Lives!!! · #**183** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:51 PM

PPS: The OPS tandem of Dunn & Thames would be (this year at least...):

Dunn versus RH'ers: 1.016 (242+ PA's)
Thames versus LH'ers: 1.032 (SSS).

That's NASTY!!!

sagnam · #**184** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

I further think that if a Dusty Baker, Sparky Anderson, Billy Martin or Jim Leland talk about baseball and which skills are the most important.... All of them talked about smallball is how you win a championship. Pitching and good defense....

Again, pitching and defense are two things that have nothing to do with Adam Dunn on the Tigers.

Eric Cioe · #**185** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

I'm almost of the opinion that if we gave Thames as many AB's as Dunn gets, we might have very similar stats to talk about.

Except that Dunn gets on base much, much, much, much more than Thames. And considering that being on base is the biggest part of offense, that's a pretty big difference.

You're just not correct here in arguing that Dunn isn't a good hitter. You can be of the opinion that you wouldn't trade for him, and that's fine. You can even say you wouldn't trade for any DH, which is also an opinion. It's a dumb one, but you can have any fool opinion you want to. But you're saying that Dunn isn't a good hitter, which is something that can be verified with numbers. And by every statistic except batting average, Dunn is a well above average player. You might have the opinion that he isn't what the Tigers need, which would also be a bad opinion, but you could make an argument that what they need is defense and contact ability, neither of which he provides. You're trying to say that Dunn isn't a good hitter, when it's demonstrably true that he is a good hitter.

84 Lives!!! · #**186** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:01 PM

I think DD would be interested in:

Bringing up Larish if it meant generating better offense.

OR: Making a minor trade for Dunn if that's what would help the team make a World Series run. Minor trade = Alfredo Figaro, 1 of Strieby, Larish, Scram, Wilkin, or Wells, and 1 of Marte, Simons, Fien, Rapada, Rainwater, Satterwhite, Jensen... Or similar.

IMO.

Mr. Bigglesworth · #**187** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sagnam

Again, pitching and defense are two things that have nothing to do with Adam Dunn on the Tigers.

And adding more runs scored to a team that has pitching and defense does not make them worse, it makes them better,

sagnam · #**188** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84 Lives!!!

Bringing up Larish if it meant generating better offense.

Larish and better offense are two more things that have nothing to do with one another.

Mr. Bigglesworth · #**189** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Also, I'd like to point out that Mr. Bigglesworth is at the very least my equal, and Eric Cioe is much more knowledgeable than I am. But, I suppose I am rather arrogant at times.

But neither myself nor Eric can compare to Robinson.

Robinson is elite.

Eric Cioe · #**190** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth

But neither myself nor Eric can compare to Robinson.

Robinson is elite.

Robinson for MVP for MVP.

The Truman Show · #**191** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

So, 3 or 4 years is a long history of missteps and underperformance for you?

Long is a relative adjective. I decided to define it as 3 or 4 years for the purposes of this conversation. It represents about half of Dunn's MLB career. Either way, what's your point? Doesn't make your point that Adam Dunn isn't a good hitter any less wrong.

monkeytargets37 · #**192** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:12 PM

without reading much more of this thread...I'd like to suggest that we dont have enough to offer to get Dunn, or Ichiro, or anyone else of that caliber (regardless of if the player is actually overrated or not--they're still big names and they sell tickets). Huff is probably about as good as we could get...and the Orioles will probably ask for more than he's worth.

Mr. Bigglesworth · #**193** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

As a baseball fan and a fan of the Tigers since 1968..... all I can say is I disagree with all of the Dunn love. I further think that if a Dusty Baker, Sparky Anderson, Billy Martin or Jim Leland talk about baseball and which skills are the most important.... All of them talked about smallball is how you win a championship. Pitching and good defense. Not that they would not take a slugger, but they would not trade pitching or defense for it. they all talked about the desire for speed and the ability to create runs when you are facing another great pitcher.

In all my years of watching baseball, I can only recall Eral Weaver of the Orioles who bragged about, " give me a single and I will wait for the HR to drive him in!" Of course Earl did have 4 20 game winners one year!

Just my opinion, after watching Dunn for many years, I would not trade a lot of assets for him. I'm almost of the opinion that if we gave Thames as many AB's as Dunn gets, we might have very similar stats to talk about.

Not to be disrespectful, but if Sparky Anderson, Dusty Baker, Billy Martin, and/or Jim Leyland think that playing small ball somehow leads to more championships than scoring more runs by slugging and getting on base, then I'd suggest they:

1. are not all that familiar with the history of the game, nor
2. are they up-to-date on what represents the most recent developments in statistical analyses, and by most recent, I mean the last 25 years.

And defense and pitching have nothing to do with whomever is playing DH. Somebody will play DH, and that somebody does not influence pitching or defense.

To my first point, there are lots and lots of examples of teams that have won the World Series that did not play 'smallball', or at least did not do it any more than most other teams in the league.

As to my second point, there are literally reams and reams worth of data that demonstrate conclusively that:

a. getting on base and slugging more effectively -> more runs,
b. Point a. is more significant in generating runs than batting average, and
c. scoring more runs increases a team's chances to win in an individual game, and lead to more wins over the season.

If 'baseball men' wish to dismiss loads and loads compelling statistical evidence because they have experience, and they know how to win, well, that is a healthy mix of arrogance and ignorance, in my view. It also calls to mind the saying, 'there's no fool like an old fool', as well as, 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks'.

84 Lives!!! · #**194** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeytargets37

without reading much more of this thread...I'd like to suggest that we dont have enough to offer to get Dunn...

I disagree.

The issue is not whether or not we have the prospects - IMO, we do - it's whether or not DD has the go-ahead to add more salary. Period. (IMO).

The Truman Show · #**195** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

As a baseball fan and a fan of the Tigers since 1968..... all I can say is I disagree with all of the Dunn love. I further think that if a Dusty Baker, Sparky Anderson, Billy Martin or Jim Leland talk about baseball and which skills are the most important.... All of them talked about smallball is how you win a championship. Pitching and good defense. Not that they would not take a slugger, but they would not trade pitching or defense for it. they all talked about the desire for speed and the ability to create runs when you are facing another great pitcher.

In all my years of watching baseball, I can only recall Eral Weaver of the Orioles who bragged about, " give me a single and I will wait for the HR to drive him in!" Of course Earl did have 4 20 game winners one year!

Just my opinion, after watching Dunn for many years, I would not trade a lot of assets for him. I'm almost of the opinion that if we gave Thames as many AB's as Dunn gets, we might have very similar stats to talk about.

Adam Dunn doesn't create runs? Where do you think he goes when he draws a walk?

A lot of those old style managerial types might not like Adam Dunn. For one, Dusty Baker is a total moron and an awful manager, so I don't care what he thinks. But, more to the point, plenty of very intelligent baseball would have the very opposite opinion, that Adam Dunn is a terrific hitter. People like Billy Beane, Bill James, Tom Tango, and Theo Epstein. The difference is that people like James and Beane have piles of data and research to prove their point.

The Truman Show · #**196** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeytargets37

without reading much more of this thread...I'd like to suggest that we dont have enough to offer to get Dunn, or Ichiro, or anyone else of that caliber (regardless of if the player is actually overrated or not--they're still big names and they sell tickets). Huff is probably about as good as we could get...and the Orioles will probably ask for more than he's worth.

I think we do. I'll guarantee you that Crosby and Ramirez would get Dunn
(well maybe not, but only because Mike Rizzo is weird). Now, whether it would be worth it is the real question, but I suspect it won't matter because Dunn is not available.

84 Lives!!! · #**197** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

...I further think that if a Dusty Baker, Sparky Anderson, Billy Martin or Jim Leland talk about baseball and which skills are the most important.... All of them talked about smallball is how you win a championship.

I also think that the above statement is a faulty premise. I am pretty certain that Baker, Sparky, Billy Martin, Leyland etal... would be happy to have a "Good Hitter" in their lineup, and not a lineup 1 through 9 of small ball players.

To imply that they would rather not have ANY good hitters in their lineup is just plain wrong, IMO.

They want good defense, good pitching, and enough offense to beat the other team... whether that means smallball players, speed, timely hitting, or just plain good hitters, whatever shape/ size they come in...

tater6 · #**198** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

As a baseball fan and a fan of the Tigers since 1968..... all I can say is I disagree with all of the Dunn love. I further think that if a Dusty Baker, Sparky Anderson, Billy Martin or Jim Leland talk about baseball and which skills are the most important.... All of them talked about smallball is how you win a championship. Pitching and good defense.

When did Sparky win a championship playing small ball?

monkeytargets37 · #**199** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

I think we do. I'll guarantee you that Crosby and Ramirez would get Dunn
(well maybe not, but only because Mike Rizzo is weird). Now, whether it would be worth it is the real question, but I suspect it won't matter because Dunn is not available.

What I'm saying is that many other teams could put up better offers than Crosby and Ramirez.