When will the Tigers make a Trade? - Page 4

monkeytargets37 · #**121** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Juan Pierre

Scottwood · #**122** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:24 AM

Ok, lets say that the Tigers are guaranteed to make one move and acquire a player. But, only one move. What position would you target? Corner outfielder, starting pitcher, etc?

Nolan · #**123** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:26 AM

Starting pitcher, but that is because I am worried about Porcello.

Mr. Bigglesworth · #**124** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

The reason you don't trade for a DH is that DH's are the easiest commodity to find in baseball. Baseball is full of guys whit guys that can hit and little else. If you trade a valuable commodity for a high commodity item, it is in effect selling high and buying low.

The Tigers as they currently stand have DH's in Guillien, Thames, Ordonez, Maybe Larrish, Strieby..... The Tigers also have the ability to use non traditional DH's in the way to rest guys. Situations where you want to rest an Inge or Polonco or Granderson but want to keep their bat in the lineup.

Think back to when we had Sheffield. Sheff was our everyday DH. Limited our lineup flexibility because he could not play anywhere else. If I recall, Leland made a statement to that effect when Sheffield was released. I highly suspect we may be stuck in the same position with Carlos. I highly doubt that Carlos will play in the field anymore, if he ever plays again.

There is always a hot bat, "flavor of the day." We need to keep roster flexibility and not trade valuable pieces for one dimensional players.

I can not remember a time where a trade for a DH worked out over the course of 2 seasons. I'm not sure of even one season, but I am sure there might be an example..... I guess Sheffield might be the best case.... and we ended up paying him to leave!

If great hitting DHs were so easy to come by, why don't every team in the AL have one? Why have Dunn or Manny Ramirez made the money they have made - is it because they can trot out to 'play' LF or is it because of their bat?

Also, while Streiby, Larish, Thames, and Guillen could DH, none of them produce like Dunn. It would be like saying, 'I don't want Roy Halladay, because I already have 5 guys who are starting pitchers.' Crap - at some point, upgrading a position is worth doing, even if there are guys on the roster who can fill the role..

The Sheffield comp isn't all that applicable, because the 2007/2008 team got a lot of production from Guillen, and Guillen basically didn't have a position. Sheffield 'forced' Guillen to play the field. In 2009, Guillen hasn't been a contributer and the teams contributions, by and large, have come from young dynamic players. If the Tigers got Dunn, my guess is Guillen / Dunn would split time in LF and DH, and it is entirely possible Guillen is dropped from the line-up if he doesn't produce. Ordonez is all about done with this team, so I don't see why he factors in any decision regarding the roster.

Dunn is not a 'flavor of the day'. Suggesting otherwise speaks poorly of your knowledge of his career, frankly. I also don't care if other trades for DHs haven't worked out, it wouldn't be relevant to this trade.

As to roster flexibility, one think has to try to strike a balance between the benefit of increased offensive output and the benefit of roster flexibility. Roster flexibility, in and of itself, is not the end all be all. I honestly believe Adam Dunn offensive contributions more than make up for any loss of roster flexibility the team would have.

Of course, this is all moot, because Dunn isn't available via trade.

Mr. Bigglesworth · #**125** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

This isn't really a debate on the value of a DH. The debate is on the value of trading for a DH.

Why does it matter if a DH is acquired via trade or via free agency or promoted internally?

Does how a player got to be on a team influence his production?

The Truman Show · #**126** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

The reason you don't trade for a DH is that DH's are the easiest commodity to find in baseball. Baseball is full of guys whit guys that can hit and little else. If you trade a valuable commodity for a high commodity item, it is in effect selling high and buying low.

The Tigers as they currently stand have DH's in Guillien, Thames, Ordonez, Maybe Larrish, Strieby..... The Tigers also have the ability to use non traditional DH's in the way to rest guys. Situations where you want to rest an Inge or Polonco or Granderson but want to keep their bat in the lineup.

Think back to when we had Sheffield. Sheff was our everyday DH. Limited our lineup flexibility because he could not play anywhere else. If I recall, Leland made a statement to that effect when Sheffield was released. I highly suspect we may be stuck in the same position with Carlos. I highly doubt that Carlos will play in the field anymore, if he ever plays again.

There is always a hot bat, "flavor of the day." We need to keep roster flexibility and not trade valuable pieces for one dimensional players.

I can not remember a time where a trade for a DH worked out over the course of 2 seasons. I'm not sure of even one season, but I am sure there might be an example..... I guess Sheffield might be the best case.... and we ended up paying him to leave!

If they're so easy to find, why are we using .800 OPS Marcus Thames as ours? Not to hate on Marcus, I love Marcus, but he's not exactly an all-star.

Roster flexibility is great, but you have to consider moves in context. It would be cheaper to acquire a high level DH than some great fielder which, frankly, we don't need cause our defense is awesome. Matt Holliday gets brought up a lot as a trade possibility, but he's not anywhere close to the hitter Dunn is. Considering hitting is the only thing we need to improve, why would you pay more to trade for a guy who does something we already do well, and would only marginally upgrade the lineup? That's why you trade for Adam Dunn. Also, he's not a "hot bat" if he's been doing it for 7 years.

Say what you want about Sheff (who was different because he was ancient when we got him), but he was a huge success until he tore his labrum running into Polanco.

Unfortunately, Mike Rizzo is an intransigent boob, so Adam Dunn is off the table. Too bad.

The Truman Show · #**127** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:39 AM

Of course, Bigglesworth beats me to the punch with pretty much the exact points I made.

tiger337 · #**128** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

The reason you don't trade for a DH is that DH's are the easiest commodity to find in baseball. Baseball is full of guys whit guys that can hit and little else. If you trade a valuable commodity for a high commodity item, it is in effect selling high and buying low.

The Tigers as they currently stand have DH's in Guillien, Thames, Ordonez, Maybe Larrish, Strieby..... The Tigers also have the ability to use non traditional DH's in the way to rest guys. Situations where you want to rest an Inge or Polonco or Granderson but want to keep their bat in the lineup.

Think back to when we had Sheffield. Sheff was our everyday DH. Limited our lineup flexibility because he could not play anywhere else. If I recall, Leland made a statement to that effect when Sheffield was released. I highly suspect we may be stuck in the same position with Carlos. I highly doubt that Carlos will play in the field anymore, if he ever plays again.

There is always a hot bat, "flavor of the day." We need to keep roster flexibility and not trade valuable pieces for one dimensional players.

I can not remember a time where a trade for a DH worked out over the course of 2 seasons. I'm not sure of even one season, but I am sure there might be an example..... I guess Sheffield might be the best case.... and we ended up paying him to leave!

If hitters are so easy to get, why do the Tigers have so few good hitters? In general, I agree that acquiring designated hitters is not a good idea but that's because there are not a lot of good ones and most of the ones that are good hitters are really old. However, you said that a team should NEVER trade for a DH and that's too restrictive. Edgar Martinez and David Ortiz in their prime were very valuable players who would have been worth trading for. If Pujols's elbow issue became so bad that he could not throw anymore but was still a great hitter, is he somebody you would not consider acquiring?

Maybe you don't like DHs because you're an fart like me who remembers baseball before the DH and is still biased against the DH concept?

itsallgood8989 · #**129** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth

If great hitting DHs were so easy to come by, why don't every team in the AL have one? Why have Dunn or Manny Ramirez made the money they have made - is it because they can trot out to 'play' LF or is it because of their bat?

Also, while Streiby, Larish, Thames, and Guillen could DH, none of them produce like Dunn. It would be like saying, 'I don't want Roy Halladay, because I already have 5 guys who are starting pitchers.' Crap - at some point, upgrading a position is worth doing, even if there are guys on the roster who can fill the role..

The Sheffield comp isn't all that applicable, because the 2007/2008 team got a lot of production from Guillen, and Guillen basically didn't have a position. Sheffield 'forced' Guillen to play the field. In 2009, Guillen hasn't been a contributer and the teams contributions, by and large, have come from young dynamic players. If the Tigers got Dunn, my guess is Guillen / Dunn would split time in LF and DH, and it is entirely possible Guillen is dropped from the line-up if he doesn't produce. Ordonez is all about done with this team, so I don't see why he factors in any decision regarding the roster.

Dunn is not a 'flavor of the day'. Suggesting otherwise speaks poorly of your knowledge of his career, frankly. I also don't care if other trades for DHs haven't worked out, it wouldn't be relevant to this trade.

As to roster flexibility, one think has to try to strike a balance between the benefit of increased offensive output and the benefit of roster flexibility. Roster flexibility, in and of itself, is not the end all be all. I honestly believe Adam Dunn offensive contributions more than make up for any loss of roster flexibility the team would have.

Of course, this is all moot, because Dunn isn't available via trade.

You suprise me Biggles! You normally have a much better argument!

Adam Dunn Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Dunn is a great hitter? Check out the link above for some actual truth. Dunn is not a great hitter. Dunn is a home run hitter and little else. I have watched Dunn for his entire career as a Red. I haven't seen him much as a Nat. I can tell you that he normally leads the league in strikeouts and hits for poor average. He has 9 years in and has turned from a below average defender into a very poor defender.

If Dunn is so great why did the Reds have to trade him and cash for 3 minor league players that probably will never make the majors? If Dunn is so good, why didn't the Reds resign him? If Dunn is so good, why didn't Arizona resign him? Is it perhaps because those 2 clubs don't think he is worth the money?

Dunn is a statue in the outfield. Dunn can not play the field for a championship caliber team.

Dunn as a DH? If you are ok with having a slow, low average, high strikeout guy who can not play any other position clogging up the bases who you are going to pay a lot of money for..... he might just be your guy!

sagnam · #**130** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

You suprise me Biggles! You normally have a much better argument!
...
Dunn is a great hitter? Check out the link above for some actual truth. Dunn is not a great hitter. Dunn is a home run hitter and little else. I have watched Dunn for his entire career as a Red. I haven't seen him much as a Nat. I can tell you that he normally leads the league in strikeouts and hits for poor average.
...

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the argument is based on OPS, not strikeouts or average.

Scottwood · #**131** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

You suprise me Biggles! You normally have a much better argument!

Adam Dunn Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Dunn is a great hitter? Check out the link above for some actual truth. Dunn is not a great hitter. Dunn is a home run hitter and little else. I have watched Dunn for his entire career as a Red. I haven't seen him much as a Nat. I can tell you that he normally leads the league in strikeouts and hits for poor average. He has 9 years in and has turned from a below average defender into a very poor defender.

If Dunn is so great why did the Reds have to trade him and cash for 3 minor league players that probably will never make the majors? If Dunn is so good, why didn't the Reds resign him? If Dunn is so good, why didn't Arizona resign him? Is it perhaps because those 2 clubs don't think he is worth the money?

Dunn is a statue in the outfield. Dunn can not play the field for a championship caliber team.

Dunn as a DH? If you are ok with having a slow, low average, high strikeout guy who can not play any other position clogging up the bases who you are going to pay a lot of money for..... he might just be your guy!

Did you check out his OBP, SLG, and OPS? Yes, he is a good hitter. He will strike out a lot, but he makes up for it.

Apparently this is all a moot point, though, b/c he is off the trading market. I can't think of another DH that was rumored to be available that I would want to see us get. Can anyone help me out here?

itsallgood8989 · #**132** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:26 PM

To answer your first question, the Nats got Dunn to be a "face" for the team. The Nats are a new team who at the time were run by the same GM who signed Dunnn originally. Jim Bowden knew that he needed to buy some time to turn the franchise around and thought Dunn could be the face until then.

Jim got fired for over paying for guys like Kearns (another ex Red) and Dunn. I believe that the Nats will not trade Dunn because nobody will give them a deal that they could sell to the Nationals fans.

Comparing Dunn to Manny is ridiculous. Suggesting the two are similar hitters is just wrong.

Manny can play a passable LF. Dunn can not.

I can't even compare anything else on Manny and Dunn because they are not comparable!!

The Truman Show · #**133** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

You suprise me Biggles! You normally have a much better argument!

Adam Dunn Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Dunn is a great hitter? Check out the link above for some actual truth. Dunn is not a great hitter. Dunn is a home run hitter and little else. I have watched Dunn for his entire career as a Red. I haven't seen him much as a Nat. I can tell you that he normally leads the league in strikeouts and hits for poor average. He has 9 years in and has turned from a below average defender into a very poor defender.

If Dunn is so great why did the Reds have to trade him and cash for 3 minor league players that probably will never make the majors? If Dunn is so good, why didn't the Reds resign him? If Dunn is so good, why didn't Arizona resign him? Is it perhaps because those 2 clubs don't think he is worth the money?

Dunn is a statue in the outfield. Dunn can not play the field for a championship caliber team.

Dunn as a DH? If you are ok with having a slow, low average, high strikeout guy who can not play any other position clogging up the bases who you are going to pay a lot of money for..... he might just be your guy!

I didn't realize Dusty Baker posted on MTS. Clogging up the bases? Really?

Saying that Adam Dunn is not a good hitter is one of the most misinformed and ridiculous arguments in baseball history, and the only reason it carries any weight whatsoever is because people who don't know any better get transfixed on the batting average. Adam Dunn would immediately become the Tigers leader in on-base %. If getting on base is not something you'd like because he doesn't hit enough singles, then I don't know what to tell you.

To answer your question, I don't know why the D-backs didn't want him. Probably because of defense problems that are not relevant to the Tigers discussion. Either way, the D-backs aren't a particularly well run organization, and neither are the Reds, so what they do isn't really relevant either.

The Truman Show · #**134** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

To answer your first question, the Nats got Dunn to be a "face" for the team. The Nats are a new team who at the time were run by the same GM who signed Dunnn originally. Jim Bowden knew that he needed to buy some time to turn the franchise around and thought Dunn could be the face until then.

Jim got fired for over paying for guys like Kearns (another ex Red) and Dunn. I believe that the Nats will not trade Dunn because nobody will give them a deal that they could sell to the Nationals fans.

Comparing Dunn to Manny is ridiculous. Suggesting the two are similar hitters is just wrong.

Manny can play a passable LF. Dunn can not.

I can't even compare anything else on Manny and Dunn because they are not comparable!!

Jim Bowden got fired because he stole bonus money from Dominican players and because he signed a 21 year old kid pretending to be 17 because that kid's buddy was on the staff. If it had anything to do with Adam Dunn, the owner would've just vetoed the signing in the first place.

itsallgood8989 · #**135** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottwood

Did you check out his OBP, SLG, and OPS? Yes, he is a good hitter. He will strike out a lot, but he makes up for it.

Apparently this is all a moot point, though, b/c he is off the trading market. I can't think of another DH that was rumored to be available that I would want to see us get. Can anyone help me out here?

Yes, I looked at those stats.... What in your mind constitutes a great hitter in those areas? I think I can pick out a bunch of guys that can give you those numbers...... Dunn is NOT a great hitter! A homerun hitter, yes... great hitter, NO

Rod Carew was a great hitter....

DaYooperASBDT · #**136** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:29 PM

The way I look at it - you get get away with a rotating DH if you have enough offense at other positions. Right now, they don't have offense at other positions. Dunn would contribute with his power and high OBP, but he's not a #3 hitter, either.

The Tigers are hoping that Guillen can contribute, but man they better have a plan B.
My Plan B is playing Thomas/Raburn more, and perhaps taking another look at Larish later in the year.

The Truman Show · #**137** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottwood

Did you check out his OBP, SLG, and OPS? Yes, he is a good hitter. He will strike out a lot, but he makes up for it.

Apparently this is all a moot point, though, b/c he is off the trading market. I can't think of another DH that was rumored to be available that I would want to see us get. Can anyone help me out here?

Aubrey Huff comes to mind. Josh Willingham could come here and DH, although I would rather play him in LF and let Thames DH; Willingham is closer to Maggs as a fielder but is still better than Thames.

DaYooperASBDT · #**138** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:31 PM

Curtis Granderson and Brandon Inge strike out a lot also, last I checked.

Edman85 · #**139** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Yes, I looked at those stats.... What in your mind constitutes a great hitter in those areas? I think I can pick out a bunch of guys that can give you those numbers...... Dunn is NOT a great hitter! A homerun hitter, yes... great hitter, NO

Rod Carew was a great hitter....

Homerun hitting is the most important part of hitting.

The Truman Show · #**140** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaYooperASBDT

The way I look at it - you get get away with a rotating DH if you have enough offense at other positions. Right now, they don't have offense at other positions. Dunn would contribute with his power and high OBP, but he's not a #3 hitter, either.

The Tigers are hoping that Guillen can contribute, but man they better have a plan B.
My Plan B is playing Thomas/Raburn more, and perhaps taking another look at Larish later in the year.

Actually, Dunn would be perfect for batting 3rd. If Curtis and Polanco are on ahead of him, he's either going to drive the ball, scoring both, draw a walk, loading the bases for Miggy, or K and give Miggy a shot with 2 on, one out. He's not a frequent GIDP candidate because of his skill set.

The Truman Show · #**141** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Yes, I looked at those stats.... What in your mind constitutes a great hitter in those areas? I think I can pick out a bunch of guys that can give you those numbers...... Dunn is NOT a great hitter! A homerun hitter, yes... great hitter, NO

Rod Carew was a great hitter....

.900+ OPS constitutes a great hitter in the minds of pretty much anyone who knows anything about baseball. If you can "pick out" a bunch a guys that have career .900+ OPS and are reasonably likely to be traded, I'd sure like to see that list.

Eric Cioe · #**142** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Yes, I looked at those stats.... What in your mind constitutes a great hitter in those areas? I think I can pick out a bunch of guys that can give you those numbers......

Find me 15 guys that have roughly equal slugging and on base percentage to Dunn. If they're all over the place, you shouldn't have any trouble.

84 Lives!!! · #**143** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

...Suggesting the two are similar hitters is just wrong.

Manny can play a passable LF. Dunn can not...

You don't take into account fielding ability when comparing hitters. If you said PLAYERS, you would look at both... but as far as hitters/ DH's go:

Manny: OBP .412 career, OPS+ 156 career
D Ortiz: OBP .379 career, OPS+ 135 career (.316 and 82 in '09)
A Dunn: OBP .382 career, OPS+ 131 career (.396 and 144 in '09)

Guess what? Papi and Dunn would make EXCELLENT DH's... for that matter, Manny would too.

I did NOT say excellent LF'ers... because none of them can play OF very well... and that includes MANNY too.

84 Lives!!! · #**144** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:40 PM

PS: Miggy Cabrera's career OBP and OPS+?

.381 and 140.

Adam Dunn = Miggy Cabrera. At least, as a hitter. Oh, and Dunn is LH'ed too...

84 Lives!!! · #**145** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Yes, I looked at those stats.... What in your mind constitutes a great hitter in those areas? I think I can pick out a bunch of guys that can give you those numbers...... Dunn is NOT a great hitter! A homerun hitter, yes... great hitter, NO

Rod Carew was a great hitter....

PS: Rod Carew lifetime OBP and OPS+ ... .393 and 131.

Rod Carew = Adam Dunn.

pyrotigers · #**146** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

You suprise me Biggles! You normally have a much better argument!

Adam Dunn Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Dunn is a great hitter? Check out the link above for some actual truth. Dunn is not a great hitter. Dunn is a home run hitter and little else. I have watched Dunn for his entire career as a Red. I haven't seen him much as a Nat. I can tell you that he normally leads the league in strikeouts and hits for poor average. He has 9 years in and has turned from a below average defender into a very poor defender.

If Dunn is so great why did the Reds have to trade him and cash for 3 minor league players that probably will never make the majors? If Dunn is so good, why didn't the Reds resign him? If Dunn is so good, why didn't Arizona resign him? Is it perhaps because those 2 clubs don't think he is worth the money?

Dunn is a statue in the outfield. Dunn can not play the field for a championship caliber team.

Dunn as a DH? If you are ok with having a slow, low average, high strikeout guy who can not play any other position clogging up the bases who you are going to pay a lot of money for..... he might just be your guy!

Yes, Dunn is a great hitter. He hits for power, he draws walks.

Adam Dunn is currently (ranking in MLB)

19th in OBP
23rd in Slugging
21st in OPS

So yes, I would say someone who is around the 20th best hitter in MLB when you look at the aspects of reaching base, and hitting for power (which are the only things that matter at all) is a great hitter.

Also, the Reds did not trade Dunn and cash for three minor leaguers that will never make the majors, they traded 2 months of Adam Dunn for a good #5 starter (who also happens to be a great hitter!) a decent pitching prospect, and a decent utility infielder. One of these players was an established major leaguer at the time of the trade and another has already played in MLB. So I doubt that "none of them will ever reach the major leagues" unless time travel gets really crazy.

Anyways, the Tigers should trade for Micah Owings and make him our DH

Scottwood · #**147** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Aubrey Huff comes to mind. Josh Willingham could come here and DH, although I would rather play him in LF and let Thames DH; Willingham is closer to Maggs as a fielder but is still better than Thames.

I would take Willingham over Huff even though Huff is a left handed bat.

The Truman Show · #**148** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Cioe

Find me 15 guys that have roughly equal slugging and on base percentage to Dunn. If they're all over the place, you shouldn't have any trouble.

In the AL, I found 2 guys that could reasonably be traded this year that are as good or better than .900 OPS.

Luke Scott and Russ Branyan.

Neither of them have the career numbers to support their performance this year, but if either one were traded to Detroit I'd be pretty damn pumped about it.

In the NL, it's Brad Hawpe and Todd Helton. Helton's contract and age is prohibitive, and I'd be just as jazzed if Hawpe were on the Tigers.

These guys are all over the place. The problem is that in every place they are, they're the 1st or 2nd best hitter in the entire lineup.

The Truman Show · #**149** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottwood

I would take Willingham over Huff even though Huff is a left handed bat.

So would I.

The Truman Show · #**150** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84 Lives!!!

PS: Rod Carew lifetime OBP and OPS+ ... .393 and 131.

Rod Carew = Adam Dunn.

Yeah, but Rod Carew hit singles. Apparently, only singles count.

84 Lives!!! · #**151** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Yeah, but Rod Carew hit singles. Apparently, only singles count.

Carew hit LOTS of singles.

Lots and lots and lots and LOTS of singles.

Apparently, that made quite an impression on itsallgood.

84 Lives!!! · #**152** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:55 PM

Just a technicality here...

Whoever put in the tag "itsallgood is allwrong" needs to correct the error in that tag. It should read: "itsallgood isallwrong".

Staying true and correct to the theme, that is...

The Truman Show · #**153** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84 Lives!!!

Carew hit LOTS of singles.

Lots and lots and lots and LOTS of singles.

Apparently, that made quite an impression on itsallgood.

Hey man, nothing wrong with singles. You hit a lot of singles, that's pretty productive.

I'm just willing to substitute a walk for a single, if it means getting ridiculous power.

84 Lives!!! · #**154** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:01 PM

Yeah... I understand the logic...

itsallgood8989 · #**155** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

I didn't realize Dusty Baker posted on MTS. Clogging up the bases? Really?

Saying that Adam Dunn is not a good hitter is one of the most misinformed and ridiculous arguments in baseball history, and the only reason it carries any weight whatsoever is because people who don't know any better get transfixed on the batting average. Adam Dunn would immediately become the Tigers leader in on-base %. If getting on base is not something you'd like because he doesn't hit enough singles, then I don't know what to tell you.

To answer your question, I don't know why the D-backs didn't want him. Probably because of defense problems that are not relevant to the Tigers discussion. Either way, the D-backs aren't a particularly well run organization, and neither are the Reds, so what they do isn't really relevant either.

Yeah, your probably right... The Reds and the Diamondbacks should hire you to be the GM... you know a whole lot more than both of their entire organization..... But, I have been accused of being misinformed!

The Truman Show · #**156** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84 Lives!!!

Yeah... I understand the logic...

I know you did. I was just spelling it out for those that might not.

itsallgood8989 · #**157** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edman85

Homerun hitting is the most important part of hitting.

For 40 AB's it is.... the other 500 AB's... not so much

Eric Cioe · #**158** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

For 40 AB's it is.... the other 500 AB's... not so much

Sure, but if he's walking 20% of the time he's at the plate, that's going to offset that some.

itsallgood8989 · #**159** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84 Lives!!!

PS: Miggy Cabrera's career OBP and OPS+?

.381 and 140.

Adam Dunn = Miggy Cabrera. At least, as a hitter. Oh, and Dunn is LH'ed too...

Just curious to all of the sabers out there.... would you trade Miggy for Dunn? The stats say you could with no problem... Just curious

The Truman Show · #**160** (**permalink**) 07-09-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsallgood8989

Yeah, your probably right... The Reds and the Diamondbacks should hire you to be the GM... you know a whole lot more than both of their entire organization..... But, I have been accused of being misinformed!

Wow, that's a cute retort. God forbid I judge two organizations with a fairly long history of missteps and underperformance over the last 3 or 4 years and call them bad organizations.