When will the Tigers make a Trade?

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by Los Gatos

The Padres just gave Scott Hairston away. He would have been a nice addition.

Hitting would be a distant third on my Tigers wish list, however. Starting pitching and relief pitching are much more pressing needs.

Well, supposedly the PTBNL in that deal is supposed to be pretty good. Still, I bet Hairston would've been a decent pickup.

[DaYooperASBDT]

IMHO, Scott Hairston is a younger Marcus Thames.

[cruzer1]

Sean Casey? Nick Johnson anyone?

[DaYooperASBDT]

I would:

1. Sign Ben Sheets
2. Have Guillen DH to protect his shoulder. If he falters,
Larish/Thames could handle DH.
3. Release Ordonez
4. Platoon Thomas and Raburn in RF
5. Trade a pile of prospects for Holiday, play him in LF
6. Start working Miner into the rotation somehow. Move either
Porcello or Galarraga to long relief.
7. Replace Dolsi with Perry.


What would Holiday take? I'm thinking Crosby + Ramirez + Zoom, or replace Zoom with Figaro + Satterwhite.

[djhutch]

Originally Posted by DaYooperASBDT

I would:

1. Sign Ben Sheets
2. Have Guillen DH to protect his shoulder. If he falters,
Larish/Thames could handle DH.
3. Release Ordonez
4. Platoon Thomas and Raburn in RF
5. Trade a pile of prospects for Holiday, play him in LF
6. Start working Miner into the rotation somehow. Move either
Porcello or Galarraga to long relief.
7. Replace Dolsi with Perry.


What would Holiday take? I'm thinking Crosby + Ramirez + Zoom, or replace Zoom with Figaro + Satterwhite.

There is no way on earth I would trade Crosby, Ramirez AND Zumaya for Matt Holliday. I really don't want to get into the habit of trading away 3 players for 1 with an expiring contract.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by DaYooperASBDT

I would:

1. Sign Ben Sheets
2. Have Guillen DH to protect his shoulder. If he falters,
Larish/Thames could handle DH.
3. Release Ordonez
4. Platoon Thomas and Raburn in RF
5. Trade a pile of prospects for Holiday, play him in LF
6. Start working Miner into the rotation somehow. Move either
Porcello or Galarraga to long relief.
7. Replace Dolsi with Perry.


What would Holiday take? I'm thinking Crosby + Ramirez + Zoom, or replace Zoom with Figaro + Satterwhite.

1. Out for the year had some setbacks.

2. Need better than that..Larish has one HR in Toledo since his demotion

3. Agree

4. Fine

5. We can do better and expend fewer resources

6. Worth a shot, not expecting much.

7. It's a gven but let Perry close in Toledo for as along as possible so he gets the experience of it.

[cruzer1]

I'd move half the farm for free-agent-to-be Roy Halladay.

[Jeremy"Cy" Bonderman]

Originally Posted by Los Gatos

The Padres just gave Scott Hairston away. He would have been a nice addition.

Hitting would be a distant third on my Tigers wish list, however. Starting pitching and relief pitching are much more pressing needs.

Hairston would have been worth a shot for that cheap. These are the moves I wish Dave would have already made. Hairston is better than the guys we are rolling out there most days.

I disagree. I think hitting is the team's biggest need right now. They just aren't going to stay in first place scoring 2 runs a game and continuing to make average pitching look stellar. I think the bullpen is actually rounding out nicely. The team could use a decent back-end starter, but I think they could get by with what they have if forced to. I just don't know how long Dave can continue to watch this offense struggle before pushing the issue. Hopefully sooner than later.

[baseball3]

Hitting might be the biggest need now, but, we shouldn't make the decision on a player like Hairston thinking that THAT MOVE would solve our problems. He would be decent, but, of no material amount of upgrade, thus...........PASS on him or a player like him.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Given half of the season is over, it would require a massive upgrade at a position to result in 2 or 3 wins.

That written, I think a decent starting pitcher and a corner outfielder combined could result in a total of 3 extra wins, plus some roster moves / platoon could net another 1, maybe 2 wins, which could prove big.

[Jeremy"Cy" Bonderman]

Originally Posted by baseball3

Hitting might be the biggest need now, but, we shouldn't make the decision on a player like Hairston thinking that THAT MOVE would solve our problems. He would be decent, but, of no material amount of upgrade, thus...........PASS on him or a player like him.

I'm saying they should have tried someone like Hairston instead of Josh Anderson OR made a trade for him or that caliber player a couple weeks ago when it was apparent that guys like Raburn, Larish, Kelly were not the everyday answer. Every team has it's holes, but for the Tigers when you combine those players with Ordonez, Thames, Everrett, and Laird to some extent, there just isn't room for that inconsistency and a team can't afford to run out different AAAA outfielders hoping someone gets hot. It doesn't add up to consistent run production.

I am not saying Hairston would be THE answer, but he would be an upgrade to Maggs or the AAAA Squad. He is at least an improvement to the offense, has some speed, good defense and is cheap enough not to limit further moves before the deadline if deemed necessary.

I just understand what all of the delay is for. I know it is easier said than done to make a trade. But, how long does it take to evaluate your team and decide what you've got and what you don't? Waiting around without making a move, while continuing to give up ground to Minnesota and Chicago has the look of admiring the problem.

[Nate7474]

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Your math is accurate.

If this is the case I'd pass also I thought he was a FA after the year. I am only trying to think of someone who a one year player who could add speed and obp to this team

[tater6]

Originally Posted by Jeremy"Cy" Bonderman

I just (don't) understand what all of the delay is for. I know it is easier said than done to make a trade. But, how long does it take to evaluate your team and decide what you've got and what you don't? Waiting around without making a move, while continuing to give up ground to Minnesota and Chicago has the look of admiring the problem.

My guess would be price. The longer they wait right now, the more players that might be available, thus the cheaper the price. I think being in 1st place gave them addition time to wait too. Maybe if they were 4-5 games behind, they would have felt a greater need to make a move by now.

[Jeremy"Cy" Bonderman]

Originally Posted by tater6

My guess would be price. The longer they wait right now, the more players that might be available, thus the cheaper the price. I think being in 1st place gave them addition time to wait too. Maybe if they were 4-5 games behind, they would have felt a greater need to make a move by now.

I am assuming you mean price as in prospects. You may be right, but seeing what Oakland gave up for Scott Hairston, I just think the team could use a player like that right now. Anything to give the offense a boost really.

I also think they could be waiting to see what happens with Guillen.

Raburn's performance tonight was great. I just think getting one big bat to put behind Cabrera and moving Thames down to 5th would make a big difference in the offense. Let Magglio has to go and platoon Raburn and Thomas in RF.

[baseball3]

Looks to me like the Tigers are holding out hope that Guillen returns as a contributor and not a "taker" of the $$$...................If Raburn can continue his little hot streak, that will suffice for now, but, something will need to be done about magglio........

[Jeremy"Cy" Bonderman]

Sounds like Halladay is available for the right offer.

Jays' Halladay all but gone in Toronto - FOX Sports on MSN

What would it take to get him? Porcello?

What would you be willing to give up to get him?

[baseball3]

Halladay to the Tigers? NO WAY ! THAT won't happen, every post relative to this question will be a waste of typing ------

-------let's be real

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by Jeremy"Cy" Bonderman

Sounds like Halladay is available for the right offer.

Jays' Halladay all but gone in Toronto - FOX Sports on MSN

What would it take to get him? Porcello?

What would you be willing to give up to get him?

I'm putting the "untouchable" label on Porcello. He's too impressive at too young an age to be traded, as good as Roy is.

Besides, they probably want some offensive guys anyway.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by baseball3

Halladay to the Tigers? NO WAY ! THAT won't happen, every post relative to this question will be a waste of typing ------

-------let's be real

With Verlander and Jackson looming with big money deals..zero chance..you need some high caliber low cost contributors to maintain payroll flexibility.

[Clancy]

Zumaya pitches in a division where virtually none of the teams fear him. I would trade him while he still has some value. He's young and he throws it 101+. If he's packaged with a middling minor league prospect or two we could possibly trade him into the NL and get some offensive help.

Alternatively.... Knapp has to tell Zoom to start throwing some chin music up there. When Zoom is pitching opposing hitters have their feet firmly planted and are leaning way in. He has to re-establish a little respect up there... because right now there is none. Nolan Ryan was famous for regularly standing hitters up or putting them in the dirt. If you leaned in on that guy you were asking to get knocked down.

In any event.... I've just about had my fill of Zumaya for the year.

[Hart]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Zumaya pitches in a division where virtually none of the teams fear him. I would trade him while he still has some value. He's young and he throws it 101+. If he's packaged with a middling minor league prospect or two we could possibly trade him into the NL and get some offensive help.

Alternatively.... Knapp has to tell Zoom to start throwing some chin music up there. When Zoom is pitching opposing hitters have their feet firmly planted and are leaning way in. He has to re-establish a little respect up there... because right now there is none. Nolan Ryan was famous for regularly standing hitters up or putting them in the dirt. If you leaned in on that guy you were asking to get knocked down.

In any event.... I've just about had my fill of Zumaya for the year.

I actually think there are a lot of teams that would love to have Zumaya right now. I am sure there are a lot of coaches that would love to try and correct his problems because arms like his are rare. The Tigers should not sell low on him. If a team wants to give up a good everyday player, then we can move him. Otherwise, we should move him out of the setup roll and hope he can get things straightened out.

[tiger337]

I'm surprised that Zumaya is pitching at all this year given his health history. I thought he was done. I'm actually encouraged that he has not lost any speed and that he has stayed healthy so far. I think his potential outweighs anything they could get in a trade. He probably shouldn't be used as the 8th inning guy for now though. Lyon and Seay can do that.

[ScrubBeaterUpper]

Originally Posted by baseball3

Halladay to the Tigers? NO WAY ! THAT won't happen, every post relative to this question will be a waste of typing ------

-------let's be real

Yes, what he said. And let's never mention Porcello again in any trade.

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Zumaya pitches in a division where virtually none of the teams fear him. I would trade him while he still has some value. He's young and he throws it 101+. If he's packaged with a middling minor league prospect or two we could possibly trade him into the NL and get some offensive help.

Alternatively.... Knapp has to tell Zoom to start throwing some chin music up there. When Zoom is pitching opposing hitters have their feet firmly planted and are leaning way in. He has to re-establish a little respect up there... because right now there is none. Nolan Ryan was famous for regularly standing hitters up or putting them in the dirt. If you leaned in on that guy you were asking to get knocked down.

In any event.... I've just about had my fill of Zumaya for the year.

+ a billion.

I honestly think that Zumaya + a couple decent prospects could get us Adam Dunn, and I would completely welcome it. Zumaya/Marte/Larish? Depends on Rizzo's asking price, of course.

[Hart]

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

+ a billion.

I honestly think that Zumaya + a couple decent prospects could get us Adam Dunn, and I would completely welcome it. Zumaya/Marte/Larish? Depends on Rizzo's asking price, of course.

I would give up Zumaya and some prospects to get Dunn as well. To make this worthwhile though, we would need part ways with Ordonez by either cutting him or benching him so his contract doesn't vest next year.

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by Hart

I would give up Zumaya and some prospects to get Dunn as well. To make this worthwhile though, we would need part ways with Ordonez by either cutting him or benching him so his contract doesn't vest next year.

I would hope that after trading for an impact bat, they'd dump Maggs simply to make the roster fit better.

If they traded for Adam Dunn, they could play Thames in left, and platoon Raburn and Clete in right with Dunn DH and they would be sweet. Or, keep
Thames on the bench, with a Raburn/Curtis/Clete OF for the defense. Maggs and Kelly go bye bye, and you'd still have Anderson around to do whatever he does.

[JonBenke]

Damn, someone already used my .. I am too good for this thread, crystal ball post .. oh well

[tiger337]

I can't see the Tigers acquiring Dunn with Ordonez and Guillen on the team. I think they are more likely to trade for someone who is an adequate defender.

[kajoreh]

while it's obvious what the tigers need (see leylands post game last night) the biggest question facing them is what do they have that another team wants?...

the salaries of the players that are underperforming are not movable in this economy (maggs/guillen/willis/robertson, etc.)...and the prospects they have brought up to replace them have shown to be AAAA level talent...

so as gm you are looking at either moving 1) a porcello-type for a short term gain, and subsequent long term loss (like the renteria deal) or 2) taking on another bloated veteren contract from a non contender, which is unfortunately only about 6 teams this year (and what 20 other teams are also going to be trying at the same time with deeper farm systems) or 3) finding a team that thinks somebody like zum is the missing piece that they (preferably in the nl) need, but that is also a very short list...

which makes me think that they may be stuck with option #4...which is standing pat and hoping that they can hold off the twins and sox at the wire...not out of a desire to go this way, but just not having any other option with the current team, in-house talent and this years market in both dollars and league-wide parity...

the only good news may be that most every other team in baseball is in the same position...

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by tiger337

I can't see the Tigers acquiring Dunn with Ordonez and Guillen on the team. I think they are more likely to trade for someone who is an adequate defender.

How is Ordonez relevant to this conversation?

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

How is Ordonez relevant to this conversation?

He has been used as a DH 20 times this year so far and would probably be used there more if they had a better defensive outfielder. I think the bulk of his DH duty was when Thomas was on the team.
And Guillen is very relevant if they think he's going to come back later this month.

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by tiger337

He has been used as a DH 20 times this year so far and would probably be used there more if they had a better defensive outfielder. I think the bulk of his DH duty was when Thomas was on the team.
And Guillen is very relevant if they think he's going to come back later this month.

Ok but Magglio is also replacement level and useless. He should have zero impact on any decision going forward, especially in regards to what kind of bat they should get. If Guillen comes back, great, find a spot on the bench for him and have him get some part time duty. I think he's past the point of getting full-time ABs.

[Dunkin Darvin]

All this talk is dumb...we all know we are trading Inge!

(This is sarcasm for any of those who happened to listen to the idiots on 97.1 today).

[ballmich]

Originally Posted by kajoreh

while it's obvious what the tigers need (see leylands post game last night) the biggest question facing them is what do they have that another team wants?...

the salaries of the players that are underperforming are not movable in this economy (maggs/guillen/willis/robertson, etc.)...and the prospects they have brought up to replace them have shown to be AAAA level talent...

so as gm you are looking at either moving 1) a porcello-type for a short term gain, and subsequent long term loss (like the renteria deal) or 2) taking on another bloated veteren contract from a non contender, which is unfortunately only about 6 teams this year (and what 20 other teams are also going to be trying at the same time with deeper farm systems) or 3) finding a team that thinks somebody like zum is the missing piece that they (preferably in the nl) need, but that is also a very short list...

which makes me think that they may be stuck with option #4...which is standing pat and hoping that they can hold off the twins and sox at the wire...not out of a desire to go this way, but just not having any other option with the current team, in-house talent and this years market in both dollars and league-wide parity...

the only good news may be that most every other team in baseball is in the same position...

You forgot option five. This is where we have a GM who can play both sides of the trade market and has a vision for this team that is longer than the next couple of months. Trading guys like Raburn and Galarraga would not materially affect our chances at winning the division this year. They are cheap and controllable for several years, and could potentially net us 3-6 prospects. I don't know what offers would be out there for them, but for teams where payroll is a concern, they probably are desirable... particularly as both are playing fairly well right now. And then you have a choice, either you use those prospects to rebuild your system, or you have trade ammunition to try to land a good bat at the deadline (i.e Holliday - or hopefully someone who is a bit better).

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Ok but Magglio is also replacement level and useless. He should have zero impact on any decision going forward, especially in regards to what kind of bat they should get. If Guillen comes back, great, find a spot on the bench for him and have him get some part time duty. I think he's past the point of getting full-time ABs.

I'm talking about what I think will happen, not what I hope will happen. I believe decisions about Ordonez and Guillen will determine what they do in the trade market. Not the other way around.

[JonBenke]

Originally Posted by tiger337

I believe decisions about Ordonez and Guillen will determine what they do in the trade market.

This isn't even assumption, this is just fact.

If Guillen can come back and hit well, odds are, he'll do so as our full time DH, which rules out Dunn. And while I expect them to release Ordonez, as it makes too much sense, but with Guillen, we could get a good bat for nothing, which would also be a plus, but a wait and see approach.

Our starters don't seem to be the problem, it's the offense, and it's pretty clear that we need a spark there, and it could be Guillen, but it could very easily not be... We have to wait and see. And if we release Ordonez, I expect that we'll try and add a decent replacement in RF.

I hope DD can work something out during the All-Star break.

[InfanteIago]

Originally Posted by JonBenke

This isn't even assumption, this is just fact.

If Guillen can come back and hit well, odds are, he'll do so as our full time DH, which rules out Dunn. And while I expect them to release Ordonez, as it makes too much sense, but with Guillen, we could get a good bat for nothing, which would also be a plus, but a wait and see approach.

Our starters don't seem to be the problem, it's the offense, and it's pretty clear that we need a spark there, and it could be Guillen, but it could very easily not be... We have to wait and see. And if we release Ordonez, I expect that we'll try and add a decent replacement in RF.

I hope DD can work something out during the All-Star break.

Who's to say Guillen is going to return soon enough? He's not coming back this week and their next game isn't until the 17th.

[JonBenke]

InfanteIago; I think Guillen, how he looks in batting practice, will give them an idea of the degree of bat they'll need going forward.

If while watching him hit, which I thought I read that he's doing now, but if they like what they see, they might want to wait and only add a mid level bat, but, well, if he doesn't look 100%, they might want to add a bigger bat, hoping that whatever Guillen can give them is simply a bonus.

[InfanteIago]

Originally Posted by JonBenke

InfanteIago; I think Guillen, how he looks in batting practice, will give them an idea of the degree of bat they'll need going forward.

If while watching him hit, which I thought I read that he's doing now, but if they like what they see, they might want to wait and only add a mid level bat, but, well, if he doesn't look 100%, they might want to add a bigger bat, hoping that whatever Guillen can give them is simply a bonus.

He took BP yesterday for the first time in 2 months. I still think he might be a couple weeks away.

[JonBenke]

Originally Posted by InfanteIago

He took BP yesterday for the first time in 2 months. I still think he might be a couple weeks away.

I understand that, but I hope they can look at him and get an idea of what they have right now, going forward, better than us here .. that's all.

When is the trade deadline?