Updates on Robertson, Guillen and Bondo

[Scottwood]

Masses removed from Nate Robertson's elbow - Detroit Tigers Baseball: News, Blogs, Photos, Audio, Schedule & Stats - MLive.com

-They "should" have a chance to get Nate back by the end of the year. In other words, he is done for the season.

Jeremy Bonderman, Carlos Guillen making strides - Detroit Tigers Baseball: News, Blogs, Photos, Audio, Schedule & Stats - MLive.com

-I still am not counting on anything from Bondo this year. I think Guillen comes back around the All Star break. Maybe a game or two before it, or after the game.

[JOliver]

glad robertson is dealt with

[Oblong]

While it would be great if Nate's sudden drop off the planet would be related to this mass in his elbow and he can be a reliable pitcher next year.... it still begs the question: Why does it take a player sucking in real games, for a long while in some cases, for this medical/training staff to spot this?

[DaYooperASBDT]

Nate sucked long before this issue cropped up.

[will the thrill]

I hate how everything has to be so politically correct "They should get Nate back by the end of the year" You know perfectly well nobody really wants Nate back.

[Lbh24]

We all know that perfectly well, and they didn't have to say it. So why hate that Rand said the "right" thing?

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by Oblong

While it would be great if Nate's sudden drop off the planet would be related to this mass in his elbow and he can be a reliable pitcher next year.... it still begs the question: Why does it take a player sucking in real games, for a long while in some cases, for this medical/training staff to spot this?

Yeah, there's probably a 0.003 % chance that Nate's lack of stuff is related to this.

[Rob from Canton]

So if Robertson is done for the year due to medical reasons do the Tigers have an insurance policy that pays for this? If so there is about 7 million reasons not to bring him back

[ToledoTigerFan]

Originally Posted by Oblong

While it would be great if Nate's sudden drop off the planet would be related to this mass in his elbow and he can be a reliable pitcher next year.... it still begs the question: Why does it take a player sucking in real games, for a long while in some cases, for this medical/training staff to spot this?

I've been wondering the same thing. Strength is something fairly easy to quantify, yet the conditioning staff seemingly messed up with Bonderman's evaluation and also Sheffield's evaluation. Couldn't they tell that game strength wasn't there? Wasn't there any measurements taken? Shouldn't they have a baseline measurement taken when a player is healthy so they know what they have to achieve post-injury?

[Oblong]

Rodney last year. Guillen.

Here's how it plays out: Player gets hurt or has a lingering injury. Plays a few games and is bad. Rehabs, comes back, sucks for a week or two, then suddenly he's out for 2 or 3 months (or the rest of the year).

The Bonderman issue was very telling. In spring training they make it sound like he's just a start away from having a chance at Opening Day. Then he's nowhere near ready, has to rehab at Lakeland and the minors. Then he's ready for hte majors. One awful start and he's nowhere near ready again.

I'd like to ask Dombrowski a question about this at Tigerfest but I'm sure hte answer will be "We have a top notch training and medical staff. We're very happy with them."

[ToledoTigerFan]

If he gives you the pat answer, follow up with some examples that seem to call into question the training and medical staff's ability to evaluate.

[eastside billee]

Isn't it possible that the development of this issue on Nate's arm could have caused his
pitching issues?

I say, it's definitely possible.

Wouldn't it be great if Nate actually turned out to be good next year?

I guess we have to wait til Spring Training to see what is up.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by eastside billee

Isn't it possible that the development of this issue on Nate's arm could have caused his
pitching issues?

I say, it's definitely possible.

Wouldn't it be great if Nate actually turned out to be good next year?

I guess we have to wait til Spring Training to see what is up.

They announced after the surgery that injury had no effect on his velocity.

My guess is the only that will correct what ails Nate is a transplant of a 19 year olds arm or the implantation of Kenny Rogers brain.

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by eastside billee

Isn't it possible that the development of this issue on Nate's arm could have caused his
pitching issues?

I say, it's definitely possible.

Wouldn't it be great if Nate actually turned out to be good next year?

I guess we have to wait til Spring Training to see what is up.

Unless he developed the condition before the 2008 season, no, it isn't possible.

If he did develop it then, that would make the Tigers medical staff one of the worst in history.

[will the thrill]

Originally Posted by eastside billee

Isn't it possible that the development of this issue on Nate's arm could have caused his
pitching issues?

I say, it's definitely possible.

Wouldn't it be great if Nate actually turned out to be good next year?

I guess we have to wait til Spring Training to see what is up.

we have enough "wouldn't it be great ifs" that don't need to add Nate to the list, let's just stick to Mags outslugging Polly and Bonderman throwing harder than Nick Swisher. We get those 2, we'll be ok, no need to waste valuable pipe dreams on Nate

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by will the thrill

we have enough "wouldn't it be great ifs" that don't need to add Nate to the list, let's just stick to Mags outslugging Polly and Bonderman throwing harder than Nick Swisher. We get those 2, we'll be ok, no need to waste valuable pipe dreams on Nate

will..who has a better 2009 ERA..Bondo or Swisher

[will the thrill]

Nick would win that by a landslide (0.00 to 6.75), even has a better WHIP 2.000 to 2.750

[lesgoblu02]

sample size alert...

[will the thrill]

4 innings to 1 inning.....isn't as bad as it seems. and Jeremy gave up at least 1 run in all 4 innings he pitched

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

will..who has a better 2009 ERA..Bondo or Swisher

Wait..wait..I humbly apologize

will..who has a better 2009 ERA..Bondo or Swisher:

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Oblong

Rodney last year. Guillen.

Here's how it plays out: Player gets hurt or has a lingering injury. Plays a few games and is bad. Rehabs, comes back, sucks for a week or two, then suddenly he's out for 2 or 3 months (or the rest of the year).

The Bonderman issue was very telling. In spring training they make it sound like he's just a start away from having a chance at Opening Day. Then he's nowhere near ready, has to rehab at Lakeland and the minors. Then he's ready for hte majors. One awful start and he's nowhere near ready again.

I agree. The organization also seems to rush players through minor league rehab assignments also, IMO.

[DET Mr Malefic]

Originally Posted by Oblong

Rodney last year. Guillen.

Here's how it plays out: Player gets hurt or has a lingering injury. Plays a few games and is bad. Rehabs, comes back, sucks for a week or two, then suddenly he's out for 2 or 3 months (or the rest of the year).

The Bonderman issue was very telling. In spring training they make it sound like he's just a start away from having a chance at Opening Day. Then he's nowhere near ready, has to rehab at Lakeland and the minors. Then he's ready for hte majors. One awful start and he's nowhere near ready again.

I'd like to ask Dombrowski a question about this at Tigerfest but I'm sure hte answer will be "We have a top notch training and medical staff. We're very happy with them."

You've been banging this drum for awhile now, and you made a believer out of me from the minute you started.

However, be happy that at least we aren't Kansas City:

Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » Stupid is …

[djhutch]

Originally Posted by Oblong

Rodney last year. Guillen.

Here's how it plays out: Player gets hurt or has a lingering injury. Plays a few games and is bad. Rehabs, comes back, sucks for a week or two, then suddenly he's out for 2 or 3 months (or the rest of the year).

The Bonderman issue was very telling. In spring training they make it sound like he's just a start away from having a chance at Opening Day. Then he's nowhere near ready, has to rehab at Lakeland and the minors. Then he's ready for hte majors. One awful start and he's nowhere near ready again.

I'd like to ask Dombrowski a question about this at Tigerfest but I'm sure hte answer will be "We have a top notch training and medical staff. We're very happy with them."

Originally Posted by DET Mr Malefic

You've been banging this drum for awhile now, and you made a believer out of me from the minute you started.

However, be happy that at least we aren't Kansas City:

Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » Stupid is …

I wonder if this is because the training staff doesn't know what their doing (I doubt it), or they are yes men because they're concerned about how the boss will react when they tell the truth (more realistic). DD has never come off to me as "that" GM, but we really don't know what he's like to work for. That would make it more a leadership issue than a training staff issue.

[Jason_R]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

They announced after the surgery that injury had no effect on his velocity.

I never saw this quote. Is there a link you could post?

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Unless he developed the condition before the 2008 season, no, it isn't possible.

If he did develop it then, that would make the Tigers medical staff one of the worst in history.

Unless you are a trained physician AND you have been able to review Robertson's full medical record, this is just speculation.

[Ghostface]

Originally Posted by Lbh24

We all know that perfectly well, and they didn't have to say it. So why hate that Rand said the "right" thing?

because political correctness & worrying about feelings in business settings are the wrong thing. brutal honesty is 'right'

[Jason_R]

Originally Posted by Ghostface

because political correctness & worrying about feelings in business settings are the wrong thing. brutal honesty is 'right'

Do you want good players to want to play for your team in the future? Then you shouldn't publicly embarrass the players you already have.

Every single professional athlete is going to reach a point where they just can't cut it anymore. And they all know it. I don't suspect professional athletes would prefer to play for a franchise that is going to rub this fact in their face when the end comes, if they had the chance to play for a franchise that treats its players with dignity and respect.

[Tramfan]

A healthy Guillen might be a nice boost to our offense, but a big if nonetheless ...

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by Jason_R

Unless you are a trained physician AND you have been able to review Robertson's full medical record, this is just speculation.

I can make educated conclusions based on obvious facts. Nate has been a horrible pitcher for a year and a half. If the injury was the cause of this awful level of play, he therefore would have to have the injury the entire time he was playing terribly. Since that has been a year and a half, he would have this elbow mass for a year and a half. Considering that a bump on your elbow is a pretty visible thing, and considering that major league pitchers are pretty much under a microscope at all times, especially when they are pitching poorly, the training staff would have to be very bad at their jobs to miss something like this for almost 16 months.

I don't think they're that bad at their jobs. Therefore, the unsatisfactory performance of Nate Robertson well predates the injury, and would clearly have no relation to it. QED

But, thanks for reminding us that it is speculation. No one ever speculates on a message board or anything.

[Jason_R]

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

I can make educated conclusions based on obvious facts. Nate has been a horrible pitcher for a year and a half. If the injury was the cause of this awful level of play, he therefore would have to have the injury the entire time he was playing terribly. Since that has been a year and a half, he would have this elbow mass for a year and a half. Considering that a bump on your elbow is a pretty visible thing, and considering that major league pitchers are pretty much under a microscope at all times, especially when they are pitching poorly, the training staff would have to be very bad at their jobs to miss something like this for almost 16 months.

I don't think they're that bad at their jobs. Therefore, the unsatisfactory performance of Nate Robertson well predates the injury, and would clearly have no relation to it. QED

But, thanks for reminding us that it is speculation. No one ever speculates on a message board or anything.

I never read anywhere that it was a "bump on his elbow". The article linked in this thread says that "four small, fibrous masses" were removed, and this article states:

The Detroit Tigers this morning placed left-handed reliever Nate Robertson on the 15-day disabled list with mass in his left medial elbow....

Tigers trainer Kevin Rand said the mass had been in Robertson's elbow for some time, and had begun affecting his ability to grip the baseball.

"He had numbness and tingling in his little and ring fingers," said Rand, adding that the mass was pressing on the ulnar nerve.

If these masses were, in fact, in his elbow, they likely would not have been visible to the naked eye. Also, it is certainly possible that they were growing for a long time - and pressing on the ulnar nerve - with no visible symptom other than a weak or tired arm. Maybe if there is someone on the board with medical training they could enlighten us as to the possible causes and effects of fibrous masses of this kind.

[Ghostface]

Originally Posted by Jason_R

Do you want good players to want to play for your team in the future? Then you shouldn't publicly embarrass the players you already have.

Every single professional athlete is going to reach a point where they just can't cut it anymore. And they all know it. I don't suspect professional athletes would prefer to play for a franchise that is going to rub this fact in their face when the end comes, if they had the chance to play for a franchise that treats its players with dignity and respect.

thats kind of how the real world works though, right?

[Jason_R]

Originally Posted by Ghostface

thats kind of how the real world works though, right?

I'm going to assume this is an earnest question and say that if you go out into the "real" world and say everything that pops into your mind under the guise of "I'm just being honest," you are going to make very few friends and very many enemies. What some people dismiss as "political correctness" is often common courtesy, which isn't a bad thing in my book.

Even if the team is thinking "Nate sucks and we're glad we have an excuse to get him off the roster for the rest of the season," there is absolutely no benefit to saying it, and it could do a lot of harm to the team's effort to earn the trust of its players.