Zumaya

**T.O. Tiger Fan** · 06-27-2009, 12:55 AM

His June stats including tonight are downright ugly:

11 G, 9.0 IP, 11 H, 8 R, 7 ER, 14 BB, 10 K, 2 HR, 7.00 ERA, 2.78 WHIP, 3 BS, 2 L

**Tyrus** · 06-27-2009, 01:11 AM

If I were the Tigers, I'd trade Zumaya for a bat. I get the feeling he's never going to be the closer we want him to be, but at the same time I think some GM might be bewitched by that 105 mph fastball and give us something of value in return.

Do we want to hang on to a guy who is going to be a setup man (and, lately, a terrible one)? He doesn't seem to have the head for the closer's job. Whenever he gets a chance to save a game he pisses his pants. And lately he's been pissing his pants in any inning.

I know I'm only guessing here, but most of his problems seem to originate between the ears. I'm not sure you can acquire mental toughness; you either have it or you don't.

As bad-*** as Joel tries to come off, his biggest problem is that he isn't fearless. You can just see him out there second-guessing himself.

I'd trade him. We've already got one guy -- Ryan Perry -- who throws hard but is wild. Only Perry doesn't play Guitar Hero!

**catswithbats** · 06-27-2009, 01:35 AM

I'd hold onto him and hope he works it out. Or maybe they could send him back to Toledo and have him start or something.

**DennisDubay** · 06-27-2009, 01:38 AM

he threw 100 mph tonight. FOUR HUNDRED TIMES.

pitch selection, kids. Come on. Laird, you are better than that.

**catswithbats** · 06-27-2009, 01:38 AM

Also, considering his injury history, I don't know what they'd be able to get for Zumaya. I think a lot of teams wouldn't offer what he's worth.

**DennisDubay** · 06-27-2009, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by catswithbats

Also, considering his injury history, I don't know what they'd be able to get for Zumaya. I think a lot of teams wouldn't offer what he's worth.

we could trade him to Pittsburgh for that one hombre.

**catswithbats** · 06-27-2009, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by DennisDubay

pitch selection, kids. Come on. Laird, you are better than that.

Good point. Also interesting to note, according to Rod, no one went to the mound to settle him down or give him a breather.

**catswithbats** · 06-27-2009, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by DennisDubay

we could trade him to Pittsburgh for that one hombre.

Jack Wilson? Noooo.

**DennisDubay** · 06-27-2009, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by catswithbats

Good point. Also interesting to note, according to Rod, no one went to the mound to settle him down or give him a breather.

i think leyland was "testing" him.

and he failed.

That and leyland wasn't going to ruin (overwork) the bullpen in the first game of a road trip ... that's my opinion.

**DennisDubay** · 06-27-2009, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by catswithbats

Jack Wilson? Noooo.

just sayin'.

**catswithbats** · 06-27-2009, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by DennisDubay

just sayin'.

The thought of trading anyone for Jack Wilson terrifies me.

**DennisDubay** · 06-27-2009, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by catswithbats

The thought of trading anyone for Jack Wilson terrifies me.

not even Maggs?

**Johnny Mac** · 06-27-2009, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by DennisDubay

he threw 100 mph tonight. FOUR HUNDRED TIMES.

pitch selection, kids. Come on. Laird, you are better than that.

the other night you saw what happens when he mixes in his change

**DennisDubay** · 06-27-2009, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

the other night you saw what happens when he mixes in his change

nut uh, remember, i close my eyes when he throws. key word, throws. cuz he don't pitch, yo :)

**catswithbats** · 06-27-2009, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by DennisDubay

not even Maggs?

Only if they took Nate Robertson in the deal too.

**DennisDubay** · 06-27-2009, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by catswithbats

Only if they took Nate Robertson in the deal too.

jeepers!

**Tyrus** · 06-27-2009, 02:08 AM

Is Joel Zumaya the fastest pitcher in the history of baseball?

I know the radar readings are whacko, but Zoom threw 105 tonight. I don't recall ever seeing anyone ever hitting 105 -- and, as Rod and Mario pointed out tonight, this was the road radar gun, not a pumped-up home gun. And Zoom hit 104 at home the other night.

Aside from that, I can't recall EVER seeing a pitcher hit triple digits as often as Zumaya.

Which begs the question: Is he the fastest ever?

**MoTownTigers15** · 06-27-2009, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrus

Is Joel Zumaya the fastest pitcher in the history of baseball?

I know the radar readings are whacko, but Zoom threw 105 tonight. I don't recall ever seeing anyone ever hitting 105 -- and, as Rod and Mario pointed out tonight, this was the road radar gun, not a pumped-up home gun. And Zoom hit 104 at home the other night.

Aside from that, I can't recall EVER seeing a pitcher hit triple digits as often as Zumaya.

Which begs the question: Is he the fastest ever?

Bob Feller Hit 107.9 On the Gun back in the day!

**Ballpark Frank** · 06-27-2009, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by Tramfan

Personally, I'm loving what I've seen from Zoom lately, bad changeups aside. He actually looks like a guy who could take over the closers role someday again. Plus, I can't remember anyone hitting his curve ball, so keep throwing it young man.

Are you sure you are talking about the same player the thread was intended for?

**illmatic774** · 06-27-2009, 04:16 AM

As many ten-cent heads as we have on this pitching staff, and our revolving door of corner outfielders, it's a miracle we're 9 games above .500.

We're probably not going to shake the Twins at all this season, since its in their nature to stick it to us, but while we're up in the division, i'm just going to enjoy it.

The MLB is just too mediocre this year all across the board this year, besides the Red Sox and the Dodgers. We might have the 3rd or fourth best record but I certainly won't say we're the third or fourth best team yet. There's a whopping 90 games left. Hell, one slump could put us right back in the 13-18th range.

**catswithbats** · 06-27-2009, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by DennisDubay

jeepers!

What? It seems reasonable!

**DrWho17** · 06-27-2009, 05:05 AM

Joel Zumaya is unreliable. If it was anybody else on the team, people here would want him cut or sent to the minors. He has poor control, and his fastball isn't fooling people, not to mention he's injury prone, and he doesn't appear to handle pressure situations very well. He needs to be traded or converted back to a starter.

**catswithbats** · 06-27-2009, 05:41 AM

Maybe we should also keep in mind that Zumaya has pitched in the last three years nearly the same amount of innings he pitched in all of 2006.

**TWolve** · 06-27-2009, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Chili Mac Davis

Isn't Lyon the better pitcher and better 8th inning guy at this point?

I think so and I'm under the impression that Lyon is the eighth inning man, after the failures of Zumaya over the last two to three weeks.

The problem yesterday was that Lyon had pitched three days in a row. So had Bobby Seay. Had they been available it probably wouldn't have been Robertson and Miner out of the pen in the sixth/seventh inning. It would have been likely that Seay and Zumaya would have been in the mix first, followed by Lyon in the eighth.

However, since they are playing close games and playing every day, they are using the pen a lot and yesterday Zumaya was the man for the eighth and he didn't get it done.

**tigersrok** · 06-27-2009, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by waffel

He needs to learn how to pitch. Throwing 100+ mph does no good when you can't find the strikezone. Take a few MPH off the fastball and locate it. How difficult is this to understand?

The guy has no clue on the mound. He thinks the league is impressed that he can throw 100+. But that doesn't mean a thing since he can't locate his pitches or throw strikes.

I agree with your post. He needs to focus on throwing 97-98 and locating (& mixing in his curve more) rather than throwing every pitch as hard as he can.

**lesgoblu02** · 06-27-2009, 11:18 AM

Did he miss a single bat last night. Seems like every rare strike was either watched or fouled off.

**will the thrill** · 06-27-2009, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Clancy

I truly..... truly..... think it is amazing he has regained his 100+ fastball after his many, many DL issues.

But I still maintain he should be traded this year for a quality left-handed hitter and/or corner outfielder. The Chi-Sox, Twinks and Indians have absolutely no fear of Zumaya whatsoever. All of them have kicked his butt on numerous occasions over the past few years. He's young and his 100+ MPH means he has a lot of tradable cachet.

If he's traded to the NL our Central division rivals will be sad to see him go.

you can't trade an arm like his if you're bullpen is as bad as ours, just makes no sense what so ever to worry about a hitter if it hurts our already not up to par bullpen

**will the thrill** · 06-27-2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrus

Is Joel Zumaya the fastest pitcher in the history of baseball?

I know the radar readings are whacko, but Zoom threw 105 tonight. I don't recall ever seeing anyone ever hitting 105 -- and, as Rod and Mario pointed out tonight, this was the road radar gun, not a pumped-up home gun. And Zoom hit 104 at home the other night.

Aside from that, I can't recall EVER seeing a pitcher hit triple digits as often as Zumaya.

Which begs the question: Is he the fastest ever?

i'm not sure of the radar readings, but his last few outings, if you just watch his arm motion, it's amazing lately. he goes from his ear to his release point like his arm is a bungee cord, it's nuts to just watch. I think his struggles are temporary and by the end of the season when he hit the playoffs, we'll be happy to have him in our pen

**Scottwood** · 06-27-2009, 11:44 AM

I've got a blog post up about him. He's got the talent to be special. And, I think its too early to trade him. I do wonder if we will start using him in the 6th to 7th inning and keep Lyon, Seay and Miner stored away behind him. That way, if he struggles throwing strikes, we can pull him and replace him with guys who can. In the 8th inning, he is basically out there with no backup if he struggles.

**Eric Cioe** · 06-27-2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrus

Which begs the question: Is he the fastest ever?

Yes.

**Antrat** · 06-27-2009, 12:05 PM

If he really is pitching in the 102-105 range, I think he will blow that shoulder out before too long. He needs to dial it back a little. Probably would throw more strikes also.
96-99 is nice.

**63 Tiger** · 06-27-2009, 12:08 PM

What happened the the great "teach them to throw strikes guru" Knapp?

Zumaya - 25 IP 16 BB

Rodney - 31 IP 15 BB

Robertson - 21 IP 14 BB

Miner - 46 IP 21 BB

Perry - 27 IP 21 BB

**tiger337** · 06-27-2009, 12:15 PM

Zumaya is an amazing talent whose progress has been derailed by some fairly serious injuries. He's still young and inexperienced and learning how to pitch. Maybe he'll never put it together but you can't give up on an arm like that this early. If he stays healthy (I know that's a big if), there's no reason why he can't regain his 2006 form at some point.

As for his speed, Billfer had an interesting post this morning where he showed that almost every 100+ in the majors this years has been thrown by Zumaya:

Faster than fast – the quickest pitches of 2009

**Eric Cioe** · 06-27-2009, 12:16 PM

Zumaya's not throwing 105. He's topped out at just under 103 this season, according to the accurate pitch f/x data. More remarkable than that is that he's averaging over 99 this season, something he's never done before.

Again, I don't think that "taking some off to gain control" is really an option. I don't think the control would get any better. He's just got to get better control, period.

**sabretooth** · 06-27-2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by 63 Tiger

What happened the the great "teach them to throw strikes guru" Knapp?

Zumaya - 25 IP 16 BB

Rodney - 31 IP 15 BB

Robertson - 21 IP 14 BB

Miner - 46 IP 21 BB

Perry - 27 IP 21 BB

In June alone: 49 of the 150 innings, 39 of the 66 walks. Wow. Our bullpen has to be better than 2 walks every game.

**ballmich** · 06-27-2009, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by 63 Tiger

What happened the the great "teach them to throw strikes guru" Knapp?

Zumaya - 25 IP 16 BB

Rodney - 31 IP 15 BB

Robertson - 21 IP 14 BB

Miner - 46 IP 21 BB

Perry - 27 IP 21 BB

j

Knapp has been working with these guys for all of about five months. Yet these guys have been playing organized baseball for about 15-20 years. You can't expect him to change these guys over night.

**irishmick79** · 06-27-2009, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by 63 Tiger

What happened the the great "teach them to throw strikes guru" Knapp?

Zumaya - 25 IP 16 BB

Rodney - 31 IP 15 BB

Robertson - 21 IP 14 BB

Miner - 46 IP 21 BB

Perry - 27 IP 21 BB

That's more of an indictment of Chuck Hernandez than Knapp.

**sportz4life** · 06-27-2009, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by irishmick79

That's more of an indictment of Chuck Hernandez than Knapp.

These are grown men..it's not an indictment of either..

**Scottwood** · 06-27-2009, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by irishmick79

That's more of an indictment of Chuck Hernandez than Knapp.

I think it is more of an organizational philosophy. We like big, strong pitchers who can really throw it. Verlander, Perry, Rodney, Zumaya, Satterwhite, Turner, Jackson, Figaro... the list goes on and on. A lot of our guys have lively arms and struggle with their control. I think we are willing to take a gamble on their natural talent and golden arms and hope that the control comes. B/c if/ when it does, a season like Edwin Jackson is having, happens. When it doesn't Zumaya's month of June happens. High risk, high reward.

**TigersFan81371** · 06-27-2009, 02:39 PM

The Houston Astros didn't snap the Tigers' winning streak on Friday night. Joel Zumaya's triple digit miles per hour pitches out of the strike zone snapped the Tigers' winning streak on Friday night.

Maybe a stint in Toledo would do him some good.