Tigers Possibly Interested in Corey Hart?

[spikesglaring]

Per the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal..._ranks/?page=4

1. Corey Hart, OF, Brewers - Teams looking for a corner outfielder have targeted him as a possible solution, and the Brewers need a starting pitcher. The Tigers, Giants, and Red Sox either have scouted Hart or discussed him.

Discuss.

[Eric Cioe]

What for?

EDIT - He's had exactly one season with an OPS+ over 101. He's a hacker who doesn't walk and doesn't have tremendous power. I just don't see how he'd help.

And the "what for" was asking, "why do the Tigers need him," not "what would they have to give up to get him."

[Edman85]

Why not just call Hart up from AAA?

[DaYooperASBDT]

??????????

[pyrotigers]

I'd like to get a right handed bat to platoon with Thomas and Larish, but Hart both

1. Sucks

and

2. Would cost too much for a player in that role

[RipHam23232]

This would involve the Brewers wanting to trade Hart. Doubtful.

[Lbh24]

He can play first base when we trade Cabrera to Boston

[mrlmichael]

There is no reason to give up our starting pitching depth for a Corner outfielder. We have Raburn, Thomas, Anderson, Ordonez, Ramirez and also Thames and Guillen working their way back?

[Edman85]

Originally Posted by RipHam23232

This would involve the Brewers wanting to trade Hart. Doubtful.

Not as doubtful as you may think... He's approaching becoming expensive. They need a spot for Mat Gamel's bat in the lineup, as 3B doesn't appear to be a viable defensive option. Combine that with some contact issues and a stagnant, inconsistent bat, and I could see the Brewers not only being willing to trade him, but also eager.

On another note, I'm gonna give myself a pat on the back. The Wilkin Ramirez comp is almost spot on. Go back three years, and Corey Hart was a converted infielder learning and improving in the outfield with contact issues, solid power, and a 20-30 SB type speed.

[RipHam23232]

Baseball-reference.com most similar batters through age 26:
Bill Nicholson (973)
Joe Carter (966)
Curtis Granderson (963)
Bobby Higginson (961)
David Justice (958)
Andre Ethier (955)
Willard Marshall (955)
Jim Greengrass (954)
Jim Edmonds (954)
Ivan Calderon (954)

Career .275 hitter with 20-20 ability who at age 26 is probably just hitting his prime. With above average range and a decent arm, I fail to see exactly where he "sucks".

[RipHam23232]

Originally Posted by Edman85

Not as doubtful as you may think... He's approaching becoming expensive. They need a spot for Mat Gamel's bat in the lineup, as 3B doesn't appear to be a viable defensive option. Combine that with some contact issues and a stagnant, inconsistent bat, and I could see the Brewers not only being willing to trade him, but also eager.

On another note, I'm gonna give myself a pat on the back. The Wilkin Ramirez comp is almost spot on. Go back three years, and Corey Hart was a converted infielder learning and improving in the outfield with contact issues, solid power, and a 20-30 SB type speed.

Most talk out of Milwaukee has Prince Fielder becoming the trade bait for pitching and Gamel moving to first.

[Eric Cioe]

Career OBP: .324. He walks half as much as he needs to.

It's not that he sucks. It's that the Tigers have players that could come close to matching his numbers, if not exceed them, for the league minimum, and without giving up anything to get them.

[Antrat]

Can he wear the sunglasses when he bats?

[blue]

I've heard that this guy wears his sunglasses at night.

[Higginson]

Originally Posted by RipHam23232

Baseball-reference.com most similar batters through age 26:
Bill Nicholson (973)
Joe Carter (966)
Curtis Granderson (963)
Bobby Higginson (961)
David Justice (958)
Andre Ethier (955)
Willard Marshall (955)
Jim Greengrass (954)
Jim Edmonds (954)
Ivan Calderon (954)

Career .275 hitter with 20-20 ability who at age 26 is probably just hitting his prime. With above average range and a decent arm, I fail to see exactly where he "sucks".

If your name isn't Clete Thomas you suck to most of everyone on this site.

[Lbh24]

Originally Posted by Antrat

Can he wear the sunglasses when he bats?

only for 7:05 games

[ToledoTigerFan]

The article didn't really elaborate as to the Tigers interest in Hart. Methinks it's just something the writer made up to fill space. Assuming it's true, who is tradeable that the Brewers might want? It said the Brewers want starting pitching. Who doesn't? Who says the Tigers have a glut of starting pitchers to trade?

[Antrat]

If we get an outfielder from the Brewers, I'd rather have:

[Geebs11]

Im confused as to why everyone believes Hart "sucks?"

Yes, he's gotten off to a slow start...

But, he was an all star last year. Several of you guys use that as "defense" when I claim Carlos Guillen sucks. "He made several all star teams...."

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by Geebs11

Im confused as to why everyone believes Hart "sucks?"

Yes, he's gotten off to a slow start...

But, he was an all star last year. Several of you guys use that as "defense" when I claim Carlos Guillen sucks. "He made several all star teams...."

Cause he drew 27 walks last year. That kinda sucks. I'm not really sure how he got to be an All-star last year, maybe he had a hot start or something but he was a below league average hitter by the end of the year.

Echoing other sentiments, I fail to see how we have any need for this guy at all. I don't think he's a horrible player and I think we would get some decent production out of him, but nothing we can't from our farm system. He's probably a better fantasy baseball player than actual baseball player.

[tigerkid23]

Originally Posted by Geebs11

Im confused as to why everyone believes Hart "sucks?"

Yes, he's gotten off to a slow start...

But, he was an all star last year. Several of you guys use that as "defense" when I claim Carlos Guillen sucks. "He made several all star teams...."

"Several" means he's been good over an extended period of time as opposed to "one" which could mean he had one solid year. Not to mention, you can just look at Guillen's numbers and realize he doesn't suck. I doubt anything will change your mind about Carlos though.

[TonyJM]

Originally Posted by RipHam23232

Career .275 hitter with 20-20 ability who at age 26 is probably just hitting his prime. With above average range and a decent arm, I fail to see exactly where he "sucks".

He was 26 last season and posted a sub-.800 OPS with a .300 OBP. This season he's posting similar numbers. We can debate the meaning of "sucks" all we want, but the numbers he's posted the last two years indicate that he's a guy who would be "in the conversation" for outfield ABs. We have enough of those guys, and the ones we do have are doing it for less than Hart's making. Presumably, if Detroit was to make a deal for an OFer, it would be someone that would definitely provide an upgrade. Hart doesn't do that.


-Tony

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by tigerkid23

"Several" means he's been good over an extended period of time as opposed to "one" which could mean he had one solid year. Not to mention, you can just look at Guillen's numbers and realize he doesn't suck. I doubt anything will change your mind about Carlos though.

For the record:
Career OPS+ for Guillen: 111
Career OPS+ for Hart: 105

111 > 105

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by Edman85

Why not just call Hart up from AAA?

I'm there.

[RipHam23232]

Originally Posted by TonyJM

He was 26 last season and posted a sub-.800 OPS with a .300 OBP. This season he's posting similar numbers. We can debate the meaning of "sucks" all we want, but the numbers he's posted the last two years indicate that he's a guy who would be "in the conversation" for outfield ABs. We have enough of those guys, and the ones we do have are doing it for less than Hart's making. Presumably, if Detroit was to make a deal for an OFer, it would be someone that would definitely provide an upgrade. Hart doesn't do that.


-Tony

Personally, I'm with most of you in thinking Hart would be useless and we have just as good or better options on our bench or in AAA. I was simply making the argument that its tough to say a guy "sucks" when at 26, after only two full seasons he is a 20-20 guy with plus defense that by age has just entered his prime. He still has a long way to go in some areas, but he has a solid skill set to build on.

That said, and forgive me for bringing up a ridiculous what if scenario, but if Magglio goes down or his current resurgence falters and our backup platoon doesn't contiune working, would Hart be that bad of a fall-back option?

[DaYooperASBDT]

I'd take a Clete/Wilkin platoon over Corey Hart.

[hammb]

I like Hart, but I'd be hesitant to give up too much for him, simply because I think Wilkin Ramirez (as somebody else stated) is a nearly identical player. Hart can steal some bases and he's got power, but he just doesn't have the plate discipline to be a guy that you have to go out and get. To compound that his BA is not nearly high enough to make up for his lack of walks, either.

To make me even more hesitant there is the very reason why Milwaukee would look to trade him. He's going to be arbitration eligible and those 20/20 years are going to make him far more expensive in arbitration than his worth to a team actually is.

[mrlmichael]

Originally Posted by DaYooperASBDT

I'd take a Clete/Wilkin platoon over Corey Hart.

Agreed!

[The Truman Show]

Originally Posted by RipHam23232

Personally, I'm with most of you in thinking Hart would be useless and we have just as good or better options on our bench or in AAA. I was simply making the argument that its tough to say a guy "sucks" when at 26, after only two full seasons he is a 20-20 guy with plus defense that by age has just entered his prime. He still has a long way to go in some areas, but he has a solid skill set to build on.

That said, and forgive me for bringing up a ridiculous what if scenario, but if Magglio goes down or his current resurgence falters and our backup platoon doesn't contiune working, would Hart be that bad of a fall-back option?

Not at all. There's no question that if Corey Hart were on the team, he would earn a fair amount of ABs, especially if we have any more OF attrition. I just don't think it's any production we can't get from guys already in the organization, and I wouldn't trade any pitchers to get it.

[Dino]

Maybe DD offered Ryan Raburn for Hart to fill their 2nd base void.

[djhutch]

I'm not against adding Hart, but I don't see a need right now. As usual, it depends on the cost.

[mrlmichael]

Originally Posted by djhutch

I'm not against adding Hart, but I don't see a need right now. As usual, it depends on the cost.

Yup, I think we have a lot of depth in that spot and I like seeing us giving up pitching depth for a position player. *Coughs* Jurjens for Renteria.

[pyrotigers]

Originally Posted by Geebs11

Im confused as to why everyone believes Hart "sucks?"

Yes, he's gotten off to a slow start...

But, he was an all star last year. Several of you guys use that as "defense" when I claim Carlos Guillen sucks. "He made several all star teams...."

Poor defensive outfielder who has an OPS well below .800 with an OBP below .330 in the National League

Yep, the guy sucks

edit; .759 OPS in 2008
.745 OPS in 2009

as a corner outfielder, in the national league

This is the definition of 'a bad player'

[EatEmUpTigers711]

Pass.

Especially since it says they want pitching. We've got some stockpiled OF's, and I'd rather stick with them, over trading away pitching just to add to the logjam at OF.

[froggyvk]

Ramirez hurt his right hand in Wednesday's game in Toledo, can't swing a bat right now, only appeared as a PR since

[TonyJM]

Originally Posted by RipHam23232

I was simply making the argument that its tough to say a guy "sucks" when at 26, after only two full seasons he is a 20-20 guy with plus defense that by age has just entered his prime. He still has a long way to go in some areas, but he has a solid skill set to build on.

Yeah, the meaning of "sucks" is going to vary from poster to poster. I think if a guy can be useful for a major league team (like Hart can be), "sucks" probably isn't merited. Having said that, I think his '07 was probably an aberration, and his numbers these past two seasons are more in line with his talent.

[pyrotigers]

When I say sucks I mean he's merely one of the best baseball players on earth, but not good enough to start for an MLB team, and due to his lack of secondary skills not a particularly good bench player.

I'd consider any player who's talent level is AAAA or below to "suck"

[63 Tiger]

Originally Posted by Higginson

If your name isn't Clete Thomas you suck to most of everyone on this site.

True

[chasfh]

Maybe the writer misunderstood the Tigers source. Maybe they wanted the other Corey Hart for a regular national anthem gig -- although they'd have to make sure he was singing the right one.

As for baseball Corey Hart -- he may not empirically suck, but he does positionally suck. He was 14th of 20 RFs during the period 2007-2008 in OPS+:

http://www.bb-ref.com/play-index/shareit/umU6

As well as in Offensive Winning Percentage, a Runs-Created-based measure that takes his base-stealing contributions into account:

CAREER
2007-2008
RF

OWP                             OWP    
1    Magglio Ordonez            .689   
2    Vladimir Guerrero          .639   
3    Nick Markakis              .622   
4    Brian Giles                .620   
5    Brad Hawpe                 .619   
6    Andre Ethier               .610   
7    J.D. Drew                  .595   
8    Alex Rios                  .592   
9    Bobby Abreu                .585   
10   Randy Winn                 .563   
11   Ken Griffey Jr.            .553   
12   Jermaine Dye               .540   
13   Corey Hart                 .533   
14   Jeremy Hermida             .517   
15   Jose Guillen               .503   
16   Mark Teahen                .467   
17   Austin Kearns              .440   
18   Jeff Francoeur             .417

And even if we did get him, exactly whom would he replace? Magglio, the #1 on both lists?

I think someone is flinging poo on the wall. I doubt this was a serious consideration.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Originally Posted by 63 Tiger

True

False