Zumaya out until mid season

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by tiger337

I doubt it. I don't see a big connection between the Renteria trade and the Zumaya injury. I'm pretty sure the trade would have happened regardless. They needed a shortstop and Renteria was the guy they wanted. Zumaya is a separate situation. He'll need to be replaced.

That's true. They must have been comfortable with the trade to pull the trigger so early in the offseason. If they were at all on the fence about it like I am making it out to be they would have waited to try and get something else.

I guess I am applying my position on the trade to the Zumaya situation but that isn't valid. This just makes a trade that I already didn't like that much worse and it puts that much more pressure on making more moves.

[dt35456884]

Originally Posted by tiger337

That makes sense. It kind of makes me hope they can't resign Jones because I'd like to see them go after Rivera or Cordero. The fact that Jones can only close limits their options. If he were more versatile, they might be able to pursue a big closer without waiting to see whether Jones would sign.

Totally agree. We need some shut-down type arms now. Jones isn't good enough.

[screwball]

Additional things from presser:

DD said it was the most severe of this type of injury. A level 3 seperation.

Doesn't know, or didn't say one way or another, if there was ligament damage.

Others who had procedure was Camineti (spelling?) but didn't know of any pitchers.

DD said when he talked to Joel, he apologized dozens of times and felt horrible about not being able to help the team.

The box that fell on his arm was World Series stuff.

[dt35456884]

Originally Posted by screwball

The box that fell on his arm was World Series stuff.

Figures.

We just cannot seem to shake off the cloud of doom from that damned series.

[Oblong]

Originally Posted by Buddahfan

I am sorry for his dad.

He speaks Spanish. There are literally millions of Spanish speaking day workers in So. CA. (I have lived in So. CA for 35 years and that is the way it is here.)

Was he moving the boxes during the fire in an emergency? Of course not.

He has a cell phone. Or better yet he could have just gotten in his truck and picked a few up. They are all over the place. In fact the joke in So. CA is that it really is part of Northern Mexico. That ain't far from the truth either.

Just plain stupid

Yer plain stupid. Get out of here.

[Motor City Sonics]

Originally Posted by Oblong

Ok Reggie White.....



Personally I think he had a big stash of some acapulco gold and was afraid of it going, ahem, up in smoke.

I also think we get what we get with him. Perhaps what makes him so good when he's on his game is the same mindset that makes him so frustrating. He is an emotional guy and gets fired up. Maybe that gets in the way of him making the best decisions sometimes but also what makes him a great pitcher sometimes.

We should sign a Japanese relief pitcher....they are very inventive, they can turn a television into a watch.


From the business standpoint it's better for Zumaya to have his injuries now than in a few years when he's making 12 million a year. Now they have the extra cash to sign someone.


The official line on Fidrych was that he was injured (his knee) shagging flie balls in spring training, but I have heard that he was shagging someone's wife and tried to jump out a window. Wonder if it was a teammate's wife. The knee was not healed and when he came back he was using too much arm and not enough leg drive and that caused shoulder/elbow problems.

[Doctor Detroit]

Originally Posted by thewave84

That's true. They must have been comfortable with the trade to pull the trigger so early in the offseason. If they were at all on the fence about it like I am making it out to be they would have waited to try and get something else.

I guess I am applying my position on the trade to the Zumaya situation but that isn't valid. This just makes a trade that I already didn't like that much worse and it puts that much more pressure on making more moves.

I have no idea why an injury to Zumaya would have changed the Tigers wanting to acquire a SS that they needed. Jurrjens isn't a closer and there aren't going to be hefty shifts one way or the other. It just means Bazardo probably has a roster spot as a 7th inning guy or as the 5th starter. Just don't really understand your logic here.

[will the thrill]

Originally Posted by suede

Kerry Wood would be great... he's due to come back and be a factor. I love the idea of that signing.

Zumaya... 2006 was magic... I don't think that'll ever happen again. He can't sneak up on anyone now, not that he ever could, but now he's not feared like he was. I don't think trading him is the answer though... give him one more shot to come back. Our window of opportunity looks to be closing in October 2008, so hopefully all the pieces will come together one last time.

Oh, and Re-sign Kenny Rogers!

being a life long cubs fan i'd take Gagne over Wood if we're banking on getting positive production from the spot, but Wood would be nice to take a flyer on, same with prior, but I have a feeling Wood will end up in Texas

[LJK004]

This blows, flat out. I'm sure JZ won't ever be the same as '06, but I don't think its unreasonable to think he's worth 6 wins.

I'd love for them to blow off Jones and get Cordero, whether or not JZ ever comes back. Cordero is a premier closer, Jones is not. Frankly what's a couple more million for someone who is almost a lock to close the game out as oppsed to TJ, who's a lock to raise your blood pressure? Actually, if you figure in the cost of medical care for higher blood pressure, its probably cheaper to pay Cordero more...

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics

We should sign a Japanese relief pitcher....they are very inventive, they can turn a television into a watch.


From the business standpoint it's better for Zumaya to have his injuries now than in a few years when he's making 12 million a year. Now they have the extra cash to sign someone.


The official line on Fidrych was that he was injured (his knee) shagging flie balls in spring training, but I have heard that he was shagging someone's wife and tried to jump out a window. Wonder if it was a teammate's wife. The knee was not healed and when he came back he was using too much arm and not enough leg drive and that caused shoulder/elbow problems.

My theory is that they burned out his arm in 1976 and they used the knee injury to cover it up.

[IdahoBert]

JFC!

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by Doctor Detroit

I have no idea why an injury to Zumaya would have changed the Tigers wanting to acquire a SS that they needed. Jurrjens isn't a closer and there aren't going to be hefty shifts one way or the other. It just means Bazardo probably has a roster spot as a 7th inning guy or as the 5th starter. Just don't really understand your logic here.

It all has to do with how likely the Tigers are to contend for a playoff spot. If they don't contend for the playoffs in the next 2 years it was a bad trade, hands down. The Zumaya injury makes it more likely that the Tigers won't contend for the playoffs and thus it makes it more likely that it will turn out to be a bad trade.

I appreciate how optimistic some of you guys are that the Tigers will simply just replace Zumaya now that they need to. Also that they will add however much starting pitching that they need in order to contend. It's just not that easy. Last year they only needed to replace one relief pitcher in the offseason and they ended up with Jose freaking Mesa.

[TigersFan81371]

Originally Posted by dbt

This thread got me thinking about the pitcher we signed from Milwaukee last year but ended up missing the entire season due to an injury. Who was that and could he fill in for Zumuya if he's still under contract?

Are you thinking of Edward Campusano? Tigers let him go.

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/p...=.jsp&c_id=det

[cruzer1]

Thinking rationally, there is a little help within the system, such as DLC, but he's got to be huge this year.

[redshark63]

Originally Posted by TigersFan81371

Are you thinking of Edward Campusano? Tigers let him go.

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/p...=.jsp&c_id=det

No, Jose Capellan

[ToledoTigerFan]

Actually, he hurt himself playing the XBox Moving Hero Game. Seriously, this is just unbelievable with him. He's a big oaf, apparently. The good news is if this costs him 5 MPH on his fastball, he'll still throw 95 MPH. That might make him a better candidate to be a starter as opposed to a reliever.

[ToledoTigerFan]

I've got a wild idea for a replacement bullpen arm and his name isn't Todd Jones. Kerry Wood is a free agent, correct? His arm seems to fall to pieces being a starter but maybe he can handle 4-5 innings per week. Just a thought.

[Doctor Detroit]

Originally Posted by thewave84

It all has to do with how likely the Tigers are to contend for a playoff spot. If they don't contend for the playoffs in the next 2 years it was a bad trade, hands down. The Zumaya injury makes it more likely that the Tigers won't contend for the playoffs and thus it makes it more likely that it will turn out to be a bad trade.

Well I'm going to have to disagree. I read a few times in this thread where people thought Zumaya was the difference in 6 wins this past year, well Rogers, Robertson, and Bonderman being hurt probably cost around 12 to 15. You'd have to go back and look at every game situation, possible rest implications, and a whole lot more. How many games did the Tigers lose when leading in the 7th or 8th? 7th inning pitching numbers for the year ended up being the Tigers second best pitching as a team behind the second. You can't count any of Jones' blown saves except the one in Cleveland on June 1st. I say the 2007 Zumaya might have made a difference in two or three games, not six.

I also don't believe even if you are talking 2006 Zumaya not the Zumaya pre or post injury 2007, that one relief pitcher makes the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs in 2008 just like it probably didn't make a difference in 2007. Same argument I had when people wanted to trade for Gagne or whomever. Gagne wouldn't have got the Tigers into the playoffs because a set-up reliever is one of the least valuable players on the team. They can make a difference but not like a starter or a position player and the Tigers jsut had too many injuries in 2006. :2cents:

[monkeytargets37]

Rodney needs to step up, but I doubt he will.

We have to pick up a couple relievers.....no way can we live off of Tim Byrdak and Aquilino Lopez again

[holygoat]

I wonder if they'll consider making him a starter if he doesn't regain his world-class heater. If he tops out at say 96 instead of 103, does that make him more valuable as a starter than a shut-down RP?

[Doctor Detroit]

Originally Posted by holygoat

I wonder if they'll consider making him a starter if he doesn't regain his world-class heater. If he tops out at say 96 instead of 103, does that make him more valuable as a starter than a shut-down RP?

Interesting question.

[monkeytargets37]

Originally Posted by holygoat

I wonder if they'll consider making him a starter if he doesn't regain his world-class heater. If he tops out at say 96 instead of 103, does that make him more valuable as a starter than a shut-down RP?

He's not valuable at all if he can only stay healthy for 1/4th of a season....

[kdog]

Does anyone else not buy the "shoulder injured while moving story?"

I hope that's it. But I fear he got injured in a much different place and time.

[Tyrus]

Originally Posted by NJ Jackal

So I wonder what really happened to Zumaya... Am I the only one who thinks the moving furniture thing is a cover for something more embarrassing, especially with how secret the surgery was?

That thought crossed my mind, too. The precedent certainly has been set. The Tiger brass looked us all in the eye and lied like a rug last season to cover up the Guitar Hero thing. Now, whether you agree that the video game caused his injuries or not, the fact remains that the Tigers thought so -- and they fabricated a completely different story for the public. I'm not saying that's such a sinister thing. They aren't the government; it's a baseball team, and if they want to fib to cover for a player, it doesn't bug me too much.

But at this point, with this injury, there's absolutely nothing to indicate the Tigers are lying again. So, while I certainly wouldn't put it past them, I'm willing to take them at their word until I have a reason not to.

And if it is a lie, it's certainly a creative one!!!

[Oblong]

I'm not sure I buy it just because I am trying to imagine the circumstances of a box falling on a shoulder and doing this kind of damage.

[Tyrus]

Originally Posted by holygoat

I wonder if they'll consider making him a starter if he doesn't regain his world-class heater. If he tops out at say 96 instead of 103, does that make him more valuable as a starter than a shut-down RP?

I've been hoping they'd turn him into a starter anyway, so he'll learn to pace himself, and perhaps have a decent career.

Joel himself has admitted he likes being a reliever because he can throw as hard as he possibly can on every pitch without having to worry about pacing himself.

Well, I'm no expert in the field of sports medicine, but I can't imagine any good can ever come from a pitcher trying to throw his arm out of its socket on every pitch.

[Tyrus]

Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics

The official line on Fidrych was that he was injured (his knee) shagging flie balls in spring training, but I have heard that he was shagging someone's wife and tried to jump out a window. Wonder if it was a teammate's wife. The knee was not healed and when he came back he was using too much arm and not enough leg drive and that caused shoulder/elbow problems.

I heard the exact same thing, although I never heard whose wife it was supposed to be.

[Tyrus]

Originally Posted by monkeytargets37

Rodney needs to step up, but I doubt he will.

I'm curious why you say this. Fernando had a fine season in 2006, and once he healed up last year he picked it right back up.

If he's healthy, I have no problem relying on Rodney as the setup man. He'll blow a game here and there, but he'll also do the job way more often than not.

Of course, I'd rather have Rodney and Zoom...but that ain't gonna happen any time soon.

[kdog]

And the timelines don't make sense at all. Weren't the evacuation notices all called off way before Sunday?

[DET Mr Malefic]

Originally Posted by thewave84

I appreciate how optimistic some of you guys are that the Tigers will simply just replace Zumaya now that they need to.

I'm more optimistic that the Tigers will do a good job replacing Zumaya than they did replacing Casey, which they did a terrible job of. Which really sucks since Casey wasn't exactly a difficult piece to replace.

EDIT: I'm with you Wave. While I hesitate to call this "the worst off-season ever", especially with it being so early on and there being so much time for other things to happen, but as things currently stand, I've not only disliked, but hated every single thing that has happened for the Tigers since the season ended, including the sending of Campusano back to Chicago. It's only November 1 and I've already found myself saying "Well, I trust in Dave BUT...." several times. I was really excited for this off-season and thus far I am sorely disappointed. I want the season to start before there's more carnage. Hopefully whatever move he makes to shore up the bullpen is more impressive than the re-signing of Todd Jones, which would be more bad news, whether Zumaya was hurt or not.

[Tyrus]

Originally Posted by dt35456884

Totally agree. We need some shut-down type arms now. Jones isn't good enough.

If Jones pitches like he has the past two years, he's plenty good enough, whether Zumaya is the setup man or not. Of course I'd rather have Cordero. In fact, I'd rather have Cordero closing than Zoom.

[dt35456884]

Originally Posted by Tyrus

If Jones pitches like he has the past two years, he's plenty good enough, whether Zumaya is the setup man or not. Of course I'd rather have Cordero. In fact, I'd rather have Cordero closing than Zoom.

Todd was slightly above average this year, and he's not getting any younger. If we're going to bolster our pen (and we need to), we need to do better than merely average, which is what Jones is likely to be next year.

If we can add Jones and others, he might be worth one more 1-year flier.

[Domino]

I don't think Zoom will be a Tiger after next season.

I also don't think he'll hit 95 mph ever again. This is significant surgery and more than just a dislocated shoulder.

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by Oblong

I'm not sure I buy it just because I am trying to imagine the circumstances of a box falling on a shoulder and doing this kind of damage.

I thought about that too. Wouldn't a box falling on your shoulder be more likely to break a bone than separate your shoulder? I don't know. I'm just guessing.

[kdog]

I think wrenching your shoulder is close to impossible with blunt force falling on top of it. There's more to this story.

[Microline133]

You'd be surprised how easily a shoulder can be seperated....its not that unlikely.

[tys-spikes84]

I dislocated my AC joint on my throwing arm as a freshman (also dislocated two ligaments and broke my shoulder in two spots) around November and was ready to pitch come mid-March. My arm held up really well until Junior Year when we made a run to the semifinals and I just threw way too many innings because my arm always felt good until the last week of the season. Tore my labrum, and frayed the rotator cuff, lost about 8 mph on the fastball and could hardly do anything without unbelievable pain in my shoulder. Needless to say, I'm not too optimistic, although this is somewhat different, about his longterm future as a pitcher that can bring the heat. He might be a starter that throws low 90s, hopefully things work out for him, he's easy to root for and I like him.

[T.O. Tiger Fan]

Horrible news. But I'm not sure I buy the "box fell on his shoulder story". I'm trying to picture exactly how that would happen and I'm having a hard time.

[Domino]

Google "AC joint reconstruction" - it sounds legit the injury happens when something falls from above and breaks the AC joint.

Who was it out here that recommended we trade Zoom while his value was high immediately after the 2006 season? He predicted many injuries were ahead for him and we could have got top-dollar at the time. Man, whoever you were... you were right.

[tys-spikes84]

Originally Posted by T.O. Tiger Fan

Horrible news. But I'm not sure I buy the "box fell on his shoulder story". I'm trying to picture exactly how that would happen and I'm having a hard time.

Honestly who cares how it happens, it's done. It is what it is. He's injured, and it's not good. Bottom line.